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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 15:50:46 GMT
A big factor regarding getting over breakups for me is that I am not reliant on others for validation or emotion. This is both a pro and a con. My brother is DA (pretty sure of it), and have seemingly high self-esteem, especially derived from the carreer department, but I can see past it, I know he still has a void inside. Workaholism and alcoholism are often (always?) ways to shield a wound inside ourselves. It still sounds less painful in day to day life to be DA rather than AP.... What is the inconvenient of not relying on others for validation or emotion? Secure people don't seem to need it either and are "fine". Yes, it's less painful. That's why we developed this style, to avoid the pain. Secures don't rely on it like APs, but there is some reliance. Without the need for some, there is no interdependence in relationships. Total self reliance blocks intimacy. |
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 14, 2018 15:54:24 GMT
Right, of course, this makes sense.
One more reason I'm skeptical towards general articles like the one posted in the other thread. It makes it sound as if secures are totally not reliant on validation. I have many secure friends, and they do need validation (but they don't crave it as if it were oxygen like it is for APs).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 16:22:25 GMT
Right, of course, this makes sense. One more reason I'm skeptical towards general articles like the one posted in the other thread. It makes it sound as if secures are totally not reliant on validation. I have many secure friends, and they do need validation (but they don't crave it as if it were oxygen like it is for APs). I'm with you. There are a lot of well meaning things posted on the internet and a lot of it is garbage or vague or downright wrong. A lot of it makes logical sense, but it doesn't make it correct for everyone. I asked my therapist about self esteem being wrecked after dating an abusive person or it being tied to who you date. She said it's not always true. There are very few always and nevers when it come to people. She said it differs for me due to my past and my development. Take the internet with a grain of salt. |
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 14, 2018 17:28:37 GMT
Yeah, it's about adapting what we find and read to a given situation. Funny you're mentiong that talk with your therapist, because I often have bring up similar questions with mine: "I read on the Internet that....", and she often tries to reassure me that these conclusions or "facts" don't always apply. She smiled and she said to me in a friendly tone that there wouldn't be many relationships and children in this world if everyone had to act as secure as what is sometimes advised on the stuff we find online. There has to be insecure types like us in reasonably happy and stable relationships (with secure people).
The other point of divergence, which constrats with what we can read online, is that according to my therapist, we can't heal completely from insecurity, anxiety, low self-esteem etc. Having this goal for her is probably asking for too much and is not realistic. It sounds rather pessimistic, but I would agree with her. The purpose with therapy and self-help is to keep improving our condition so that we can function better and better. Attaining "perfection" is not what we should focus on. We were born/grew up with a major handicap, but we have to work around it and work towards having as satisfying a life as possible.
No wonder we might tend to feel discouraged when reading these types of articles. They're well meaning, but too idealist. I am often left with feeling even more "unfit for life".
I don't know if this is my pessimism, but I remain very skeptical towards people's accounts who have magically "healed" over a very short period of time.
What we're doing here is a lifetime's work. This is how I view it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 19:26:43 GMT
internet articles tried to tell me that my needs were not enough needs lol.
my needs suit me just fine. i don’t need more needs 😬
the internet doesn’t support avoidants finding happiness without adhering to a set standard of frequency and type of contact.
i am finding my own way.
this forum helps a TON every day.
i get more hope and clarity every day.
i also get more understanding what i would like to change, in myself, and what i can and do CELEBRATE and have no intention of altering.
the internet is only so useful. most useful when you don’t let it boss you around.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 20:54:44 GMT
Yeah, it's about adapting what we find and read to a given situation. Funny you're mentiong that talk with your therapist, because I often have bring up similar questions with mine: "I read on the Internet that....", and she often tries to reassure me that these conclusions or "facts" don't always apply. She smiled and she said to me in a friendly tone that there wouldn't be many relationships and children in this world if everyone had to act as secure as what is sometimes advised on the stuff we find online. There has to be insecure types like us in reasonably happy and stable relationships (with secure people). The other point of divergence, which constrats with what we can read online, is that according to my therapist, we can't heal completely from insecurity, anxiety, low self-esteem etc. Having this goal for her is probably asking for too much and is not realistic. It sounds rather pessimistic, but I would agree with her. The purpose with therapy and self-help is to keep improving our condition so that we can function better and better. Attaining "perfection" is not what we should focus on. We were born/grew up with a major handicap, but we have to work around it and work towards having as satisfying a life as possible. No wonder we might tend to feel discouraged when reading these types of articles. They're well meaning, but too idealist. I am often left with feeling even more "unfit for life". I don't know if this is my pessimism, but I remain very skeptical towards people's accounts who have magically "healed" over a very short period of time. What we're doing here is a lifetime's work. This is how I view it. It's most definitely a lifetime's work! I'm a realist. I wouldn't let it get you down. Each person just has to find the way they can be most happy. I have definitely come to the realization that I may never be secure, but I will darn well find that person that fits me! He may well be "unavailable" like me, but it doesn't mean we can't be happy  |
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Post by yasmin on Feb 14, 2018 21:03:26 GMT
Self esteem is a huge factor in how well you cope with a breakup. Your ability to detach from emotions and get on with life is a huge factor. Whether or not you analyse and ruminate is a huge factor. Whether or not you have the ex on a pedestal. How reliant you are on the ex for validation. I think the AP is the perfect storm For struggling with a breakup. As an FA I have moment of this and it feels absolutely terrible. My avoidant side then kicks in and I totally disassociate and almost can't remember the person at all (which is nicer). I so agree with what you wrote. It makes sense that breakups are worse for APs, because we have low self-esteem and deal with anxiety on a daily basis (in a relationship or not). And everything else you listed. Being fully or partly avoidant probably lessens the pain quite a lot. Does it mean that avoidants generally have better self-esteem than APs? Is it on par with secure people? I personally don't think anyone with insecure attachment has truly healthy Self esteem. I might be wrong though. It's just that my avoidant side has an ability to forget/ block out / turn off so it's easier to move on. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 21:10:25 GMT
I personally don't think anyone with insecure attachment has truly healthy Self esteem. I might be wrong though. It's just that my avoidant side has an ability to forget/ block out / turn off so it's easier to move on. I have pondered this question myself. Is self esteem separate from the attachment type? If you go with the theory that insecures have low self esteem, then that would mean secures have high self esteem. However, say a person is overweight and has low self esteem due to that. Does that mean they have an insecure attachment style? I don't necessarily think so as I have seen insecure people have secure attachment styles. Anyone have thoughts? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 21:16:33 GMT
I personally don't think anyone with insecure attachment has truly healthy Self esteem. I might be wrong though. It's just that my avoidant side has an ability to forget/ block out / turn off so it's easier to move on. I have pondered this question myself. Is self esteem separate from the attachment type? If you go with the theory that insecures have low self esteem, then that would mean secures have high self esteem. However, say a person is overweight and has low self esteem due to that. Does that mean they have an insecure attachment style? I don't necessarily think so as I have seen insecure people have secure attachment styles. Anyone have thoughts? I would think they’re correlational rather than causation. It is more so that they have common factors predicting the occurrence of both as well as unique factors predicting each of them separately. Insecure attachments are unlikely to have developed without a poor self esteem, and threats to secure attachment over time is likely chip away at self esteem. |
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Post by yasmin on Feb 14, 2018 21:18:59 GMT
I was watching an episode of Black Mirror today on Netflix and basically in the show you can "block" people (kinda like you can on social media) but in the show "blocking" them means you can't see, hear or remember them at all. So they just become fuzzy outlines in your memory.
I think if something or someone truly and deeply hurts me, I have this ability to switch off and "block" it out in that same way. It's not that I don't miss them or feel sad about it, but it's very dissociated from me.
Being FA, I experience both types of emotions.
During my recent "break up" with a fellow FA who was triggering my anxiety quite badly, I was honestly devastated by his push /pull and confusing behavior. Far beyond a normal reaction because a secure would have walked away LONG before I did, but I did experience a very long period (couple of months) of complete anxiety and desperation with regards to that relationship. I was honestly a little unhinged, so I get it - it is SO impossible to be rational when this anxiety monster takes over.
After I walked away and made the choice, my avoidant side takes over. It's been about three weeks of no contact and I barely think of him at all, this person who consumed my thoughts for the past year vanished emotionally from me. I find it hard to even remember him. I just snapped out of it and moved on as if he never existed and my memories with him don't exist either. I know I am in pain underneath, because a few times this week I have found myself crying for no reason. I just can't associate it.
I think this is probably all classic FA. We live in this strange pattern where we have so much ambivalence it's hard to even properly miss people or grieve what we love because in some ways them being gone is a relief (if they are already gone then there's nothing left to dread or to lose).
It's very sad in a lot of ways, but if I am dating a secure it would never come to this because they would talk to me, comfort me, prevent the breakup from happening etc. so it;s not like this happens every time or anything. It's peaceful though, and is a relief.
I don't think avoidants really have high self esteem or REALLY don't feel when it appears that we don't. I think we just learned a magic trick to switch off. It's not that we don't miss you, it's more like we never attached to you fully in the first place because we knew you couldn't / wouldn't stay maybe. Or maybe we are just expecting losses. Or maybe we just aren't very good at feeling our feelings.
I think we love just as much, just as deeply, but it's expressed so differently and the break-up process is just another example of our ability to detach.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 21:31:48 GMT
yasmin, wow, my process is almost the opposite of yours except I too have the magic switch. When I break up with someone I am very attached to, I will have excruciating, knee buckling, knife in my heart pain for a day, maybe two. Then my magic switch comes along and turns off the pain. I am not disassociated, because I will still miss the person and remember the person, but the pain is just gone. It's so interesting how we get to the same place, but the process is just so different.
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Post by kristyrose on Feb 14, 2018 21:38:35 GMT
I was watching an episode of Black Mirror today on Netflix and basically in the show you can "block" people (kinda like you can on social media) but in the show "blocking" them means you can't see, hear or remember them at all. So they just become fuzzy outlines in your memory. I think if something or someone truly and deeply hurts me, I have this ability to switch off and "block" it out in that same way. It's not that I don't miss them or feel sad about it, but it's very dissociated from me. Being FA, I experience both types of emotions. During my recent "break up" with a fellow FA who was triggering my anxiety quite badly, I was honestly devastated by his push /pull and confusing behavior. Far beyond a normal reaction because a secure would have walked away LONG before I did, but I did experience a very long period (couple of months) of complete anxiety and desperation with regards to that relationship. I was honestly a little unhinged, so I get it - it is SO impossible to be rational when this anxiety monster takes over. After I walked away and made the choice, my avoidant side takes over. It's been about three weeks of no contact and I barely think of him at all, this person who consumed my thoughts for the past year vanished emotionally from me. I find it hard to even remember him. I just snapped out of it and moved on as if he never existed and my memories with him don't exist either. I know I am in pain underneath, because a few times this week I have found myself crying for no reason. I just can't associate it. I think this is probably all classic FA. We live in this strange pattern where we have so much ambivalence it's hard to even properly miss people or grieve what we love because in some ways them being gone is a relief (if they are already gone then there's nothing left to dread or to lose). It's very sad in a lot of ways, but if I am dating a secure it would never come to this because they would talk to me, comfort me, prevent the breakup from happening etc. so it;s not like this happens every time or anything. It's peaceful though, and is a relief. I don't think avoidants really have high self esteem or REALLY don't feel when it appears that we don't. I think we just learned a magic trick to switch off. It's not that we don't miss you, it's more like we never attached to you fully in the first place because we knew you couldn't / wouldn't stay maybe. Or maybe we are just expecting losses. Or maybe we just aren't very good at feeling our feelings. I think we love just as much, just as deeply, but it's expressed so differently and the break-up process is just another example of our ability to detach. Hi Yasmin, This is very interesting to read and helps me understand more of the avoidant side. For me my AP side really kicks in post-breakup but only when I have been left. If I'm doing the breaking up, I move on very fast, meaning I don't ruminate or think of the person much. Not to beat a dead horse, but I guess when I hear you say you move on, don't think of the person, detach from the pain, it still makes me wonder what the F my ex was thinking? It's like he detached but doesnt? I don't know. It doesnt matter. I know he is a totally different kind of something... I go up and down often and cry spontaneously, but hoping to just keep riding it out as best as I can. I'm sorry to hear you have those bouts of sadness as well. It's interesting how you can relate to both sides, I wish I knew how to detach at least a little from these feelings for my ex. |
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Post by yasmin on Feb 14, 2018 21:38:40 GMT
There's something that made me so sad about that post @mary  The idea of stopping feeling your own pain even though you miss and remember the person. It's almost like forgetting your feelings, while I forget the entire person. Both obviously very powerful defence mechanisms we must have learned at a very young age. I notice this doesn't always happen for me. Only if the loss has hurt me very much, or if the person has behaved in ways to damage me. I have had several normal breakups where I missed the person and remembered them. I am not sure what the difference is. I think I have a line somewhere and if someone crosses it in a certain way then the magic switch comes along. In many ways I wish I didn't have it (although it is nice in a way too) because I sometimes feel like my grief has been stolen from me. I want to feel it sometimes because that person was important to me and the grief is part of loving them. I try very hard though, and can't remember them. It's like being behind glass. Even if I see a picture of us together it feels like looking at someone else. |
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Post by yasmin on Feb 14, 2018 21:46:26 GMT
I was watching an episode of Black Mirror today on Netflix and basically in the show you can "block" people (kinda like you can on social media) but in the show "blocking" them means you can't see, hear or remember them at all. So they just become fuzzy outlines in your memory. I think if something or someone truly and deeply hurts me, I have this ability to switch off and "block" it out in that same way. It's not that I don't miss them or feel sad about it, but it's very dissociated from me. Being FA, I experience both types of emotions. During my recent "break up" with a fellow FA who was triggering my anxiety quite badly, I was honestly devastated by his push /pull and confusing behavior. Far beyond a normal reaction because a secure would have walked away LONG before I did, but I did experience a very long period (couple of months) of complete anxiety and desperation with regards to that relationship. I was honestly a little unhinged, so I get it - it is SO impossible to be rational when this anxiety monster takes over. After I walked away and made the choice, my avoidant side takes over. It's been about three weeks of no contact and I barely think of him at all, this person who consumed my thoughts for the past year vanished emotionally from me. I find it hard to even remember him. I just snapped out of it and moved on as if he never existed and my memories with him don't exist either. I know I am in pain underneath, because a few times this week I have found myself crying for no reason. I just can't associate it. I think this is probably all classic FA. We live in this strange pattern where we have so much ambivalence it's hard to even properly miss people or grieve what we love because in some ways them being gone is a relief (if they are already gone then there's nothing left to dread or to lose). It's very sad in a lot of ways, but if I am dating a secure it would never come to this because they would talk to me, comfort me, prevent the breakup from happening etc. so it;s not like this happens every time or anything. It's peaceful though, and is a relief. I don't think avoidants really have high self esteem or REALLY don't feel when it appears that we don't. I think we just learned a magic trick to switch off. It's not that we don't miss you, it's more like we never attached to you fully in the first place because we knew you couldn't / wouldn't stay maybe. Or maybe we are just expecting losses. Or maybe we just aren't very good at feeling our feelings. I think we love just as much, just as deeply, but it's expressed so differently and the break-up process is just another example of our ability to detach. Hi Yasmin, This is very interesting to read and helps me understand more of the avoidant side. For me my AP side really kicks in post-breakup but only when I have been left. If I'm doing the breaking up, I move on very fast, meaning I don't ruminate or think of the person much. Not to beat a dead horse, but I guess when I hear you say you move on, don't think of the person, detach from the pain, it still makes me wonder what the F my ex was thinking? It's like he detached but doesnt? I don't know. It doesnt matter. I know he is a totally different kind of something... I go up and down often and cry spontaneously, but hoping to just keep riding it out as best as I can. I'm sorry to hear you have those bouts of sadness as well. It's interesting how you can relate to both sides, I wish I knew how to detach at least a little from these feelings for my ex. Well. I guess in the three most painful breakups or losses of my life where I experienced this disassociation and inability to feel anything, I can tell you that I tried with every ounce of effor that I had to cling onto the person or relationship before I lost them. It's not like just because I am FA I act like people don't matter or like I don't love them, it's more like if I love them and they betray / hurt / leave me then I have an ability to cut them off in my emotions. Your ex FA (and mine) didn't fight for the relationship. They didn't want it. So I guess they must be experiencing different emotions. But then I am FA and don't participate in the push / pull cycle. Actually I am usually very sure that I want to be with someone and the FA behavior is often only testing at the beginning until I get settled or perhaps not giving things a try initially. Certainly once we are together I am capable of deep and loving attachments, but perhaps (for me) the pain of loss is just too much to bear in some cases and I allow my brain to turn itself off. Since breaking up with my FA I haven't checked he was online, thought about him, checked his social media or even barely thought a moment about him. I loved this man, I truly did really love him and the loss was not what I wanted but I can just switch off. I think FAs (more than other attachment styles) are the masters of living in denial of our real feelings. We're so back and forth between anxiety and avoidance that I think we want to do anything to avoid suffering. It's very tough. |
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Post by ocarina on Feb 14, 2018 21:57:58 GMT
As another FA I can emotionally block at will - not something that is very helpful alot of the time since the pain remains but is buried and without a concious experience - as a result as Yasmin explained, it tends to resurface unexpectedly and sometimes after a considerable length of time.
Even during the most painful times of my life - for example the death of my father, I appeared functionally quite normal - emotionally cool and collected, but what appears on the surface is misleading and infact I believe it often takes me much longer than others to process the pain, heal and move on. I still feel pain from events that happened decades ago - these things mark me deeply and it sometimes seems irrecoverably.
It may be one of the reasons I fear real emotional intimacy and take a long long time to bond - because once I am really there - and this happens very rarely, the bond remains even when the person is gone.
The ambivalent behaviour that seems to characterise many FAs is not me at all - I am just loathe to get involved in the first place - but once I have been "tamed" like the fox in The Little Prince, it's pretty much a connection for life.
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The idea of stopping feeling your own pain even though you miss and remember the person. It's almost like forgetting your feelings, while I forget the entire person. Both obviously very powerful defence mechanisms we must have learned at a very young age.