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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2018 7:29:08 GMT
If you haven't read it, I think the book "Attached: the New Science of Adult Love..." would be helpful in your figuring out the red flags earlier on in dating. However, there may also be the question of on what basis you decide to date someone in the first place... Thank you. I will look into that. I think with me it's more about implementing what I know. I know why I do it and why they do it. It really is like an addiction. Maybe I need to stay away from dating for a while. There is a book I read when I first learned that I was even in a cycle, with my previouys BF before the DA. It was such an eye opener and it totally made me see my unhealthy attachment but still I kept right on picking the wrong ones. That book is called He said She said. someone told me this - it is about being able to build a bridge between knowing and doing. for me, I know alot of things but i don't know how to do it. I know i should mend the rift with my partner, but i don't know how to do it. I know i should let things go, but i don't know how to do it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2018 13:00:17 GMT
i have felt like this at times, and more often than that, i fall into believing that i am just not cut out for it. that's probably more an avoidant take on it. but i've taken my focus off that to really just wanting to be good to myself, in terms of how i take care of myself mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and physically.
i think that those things can naturally attract a healthy compatible partner.
so i guess it comes down to a cliche- love yourself first. i see people finding love even later in life. but they are happy, secure, positive people.
coming from the level of low self esteem and poor self care that most of us do, i am certain there are no shortcuts there.
and, given that attachment styles can cause us to fall to shit personally once deeply involved, it's really important for me to keep working DILIGENTLY on those issues so i can BE a good partner. i am working on myself out of self love and care, every single day. there is always some time or energy i can put toward healing and growing (not ruminating) .
just my two cents. i think a pessimistic outlook on it can become a bad habit and just another brick in the wall. i gotta stop laying bricks on that wall!!
i turn from negative rumination as soon as i notice it and go search out another more realistic and reasonable and optimistic thought pattern to pursue. it's mental training. i think of a person were to stay swirling around the drain with negativity they could guarantee they would never find a good partner.
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 20, 2018 13:12:29 GMT
Nicely put, tgat! Most of us should follow your example, if they are not doing it already.
I'm frustrated with the impression that I was doing fine all the time I was trying not to date. A lot of time also went into taking care of myself and I was beginning to strike an ok balance. I felt quite a lot better with myself, and people were starting to notice as well. When I started dating again, I attracted several secures, but my attachment issues resurfaced very quickly in a very strong manner. What a disappointment.
You're right, a pessimistic outlook can become a bad habit and is just another brick in the wall. I'm back to that place now, and I absolutely don't like it... May be even harder for APs, because of how aware we are of our distorted inner belief that we are not lovable. When reality hits us by comfirming that we indeed are not healthy enough to be a good partner because of low self-esteem issues, it only reinforces that inner belief.
For sure it is daily mental training!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2018 13:31:53 GMT
Nicely put, tgat! Most of us should follow your example, if they are not doing it already. I'm frustrated with the impression that I was doing fine all the time I was trying not to date. A lot of time also went into taking care of myself and I was beginning to strike an ok balance. I felt quite a lot better with myself, and people were starting to notice as well. When I started dating again, I attracted several secures, but my attachment issues resurfaced very quickly in a very strong manner. What a disappointment. You're right, a pessimistic outlook can become a bad habit and is just another brick in the wall. I'm back to that place now, and I absolutely don't like it... May be even harder for APs, because of how aware we are of our distorted inner belief that we are not lovable. When reality hits us by comfirming that we indeed are not healthy enough to be a good partner because of low self-esteem issues, it only reinforces that inner belief. For sure it is daily mental training! we can do this alpenglo. i rarely get discouraged by challenges, but that i am sure is because i really went SO FAR down and had to claw my way back against terrible odds. It's an unusual situation i have had but many have it much worse. So my point is, there is nothing to cultivate despair about here. Nothing. Even the negative thought pattern of believing oneself to be unlovable is a bullshit, distorted, completely fictitious and delusional thought pattern. its one that can habitually be cultivated, or changed. no one in the world can do that work except the person experiencing it. And as to the feeling "i don't know how " that i often read, that is just a brick in the wall. stepping back, we can look at ourselves and see what we do to cultivate negative beliefs and keep them strong. We can. we can also try something different. we aren't paralyzed. sometimes, we are lazy and habitual. this sounds harsh, but is it? maybe it's empowering. if a person spent a fraction of the time looking for what in them is lovable, and believing it, it would be a step toward a different future. how can we not be lovable? how in the hell does that make sense. as far as i know we aren't a gang of criminals trying to hurt everyone. It's absurd to think the people on this board aren't lovable. realky, at what point does cultivating that become insanity? no, i'm not saying it's all pathology. i am saying.... IT MAKES NO SENSE. its hard to find anyone in general society who isn't lovable and worthy. look at the individuals. everyone has something beautiful to bring, and if they suffer it's because they don't know it. its notbrealistic to think and believe and hit ourselves in the face all the time with this ridiculous idea of being unlovable. it's a bad habit.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2018 13:34:09 GMT
i sound grumpy but i am not, just waking up with coffee at the moment. lol. it sounds like i am hitting someone in the face saying "you're lovable, goddammit!" but i am just groggy hahaha. i promise ❤️
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Post by Jaeger on Feb 20, 2018 13:43:11 GMT
Both telling yourself "I don't know how" and "I'm unlovable" are ways of talking yourself out of facing the fears that you have. The longer you do this, the harder it will be to actually come into action.
Paradoxically, that is the only thing that can ever prove those thoughts false, but the thought that induces fear as you sit around and confirm it by thinking about it over and over is always worse than the fear you get while you're performing the scary act itself, for the simple fact that you can't focus all your attention on thinking, as you need to ACT.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2018 13:47:36 GMT
Both telling yourself "I don't know how" and "I'm unlovable" are ways of talking yourself out of facing the fears that you have. The longer you do this, the harder it will be to actually come into action. Paradoxically, that is the only thing that can ever prove those thoughts false, but the thought that induces fear as you sit around and confirm it by thinking about it over and over is always worse than the fear you get while you're performing the scary act itself, for the simple fact that you can't focus all your attention on thinking, as you need to ACT. exactly. all the negative self talk should be actively CONFRONTED instead of actively CULTIVATED. when seriously challenged, those excuses and beliefs turn to ash. all the negativity is conditioned and can be re-conditioned but it requires a high degree of self reliance instead of reliance on outside entities.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2018 13:50:06 GMT
and for perspective, many people find the perfect partner and have a fulfilling relationship and suffer devastating losses elsewhere in their lives. none of us is singled out for pain. it's the human condition. we just have to face what it is we have to deal with and get on with it. life is too LONG and also TOO SHORT to not try to reduce our suffering, and commit to ways to do that.
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Post by Jaeger on Feb 20, 2018 13:57:06 GMT
Both telling yourself "I don't know how" and "I'm unlovable" are ways of talking yourself out of facing the fears that you have. The longer you do this, the harder it will be to actually come into action. Paradoxically, that is the only thing that can ever prove those thoughts false, but the thought that induces fear as you sit around and confirm it by thinking about it over and over is always worse than the fear you get while you're performing the scary act itself, for the simple fact that you can't focus all your attention on thinking, as you need to ACT. exactly. all the negative self talk should be actively CONFRONTED instead of actively CULTIVATED. when seriously challenged, those excuses and beliefs turn to ash. all the negativity is conditioned and can be re-conditioned but it requires a high degree of self reliance instead of reliance on outside entities. And, between you and me, since we both know this about ourselves, being stubborn as fuck 😂 Refusing to give certain thoughts momentum or to give fears the power to control our lives. Funny how you say it requires self reliance. To me, it requires relying on others first and foremost. Through their support (if you choose the right people to guide you, ofcourse) you can reach a point where you are able to (mostly) stand on your own . Knowing when and how to ask for help after that point is a skill necessary to keep growing and thriving, in my opinion. Completely self reliant, independent or 'self made' people are an impossibility, in my view.
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 20, 2018 14:02:45 GMT
I like your direct style, tgat! Doesn't sound grumpy to me, it is an encouragment to act, really.
It is certain that cultivating despair is one sure way to keep feeling that despair, with no way out. I know that the "not being loavble" thought is irrational. It is there because of our early experiences, when as a child we became convinced of that fact. We felt it on a deep emotional level, and not a rational one. That's why it's so difficult to rationalise away such thoughts. It's like adressing the problem at the wrong level of understanding.
Cultivating that stuff is pathology to me. The degree of suffering and needing professional help surely is a sign that it is? I sort of understand the thing about inner qualities that we can bring to the world. Looking at what particular things in us are lovable. What stops me is the feeling of being convinced that the whole package is lovable. Some aspects of it, but not everything. The feedback I got from the woman I was dating was a list of very strong positive qualities in me, but that I was no boyfriend material because of my insecurities. So it's not that I don't believe that I have good qualities, but that the insecurity around them is precisely what makes me not "lovable", at least in a romantic context. Obviously one remedy is to no longer feel insecure...but in the meantime, I still feel unlovable as a whole person. Does this make any sense?
Jaeger: I understand that it is linked to the fears. But what does it mean to actually face the fears? Last time I dated, I felt the fear of being not liked and being abandonment. Isn't that facing the fear? I did put myself "out there", in a "risky situation". If it's not facing the fear, what is really a way to face fears and act? By simply stopping to analyse the scary thing you are doing?
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Post by Jaeger on Feb 20, 2018 14:08:53 GMT
Jaeger: I understand that it is linked to the fears. But what does it mean to actually face the fears? Last time I dated, I felt the fear of being not liked and being abandonment. Isn't that facing the fear? I did put myself "out there", in a "risky situation". If it's not facing the fear, what is really a way to face fears and act? By simply stopping to analyse the scary thing you are doing? That is actually it. Now do it again. And again. And again, until the fear is gone. Challenge yourself just a bit more each time and write down your fears and reactions to them. That way you'll see the progress you've made over time.
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 20, 2018 14:14:18 GMT
Ok, thanks, this at least makes sense to me! Otherwise I really don't see what else I could do.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2018 14:17:15 GMT
exactly. all the negative self talk should be actively CONFRONTED instead of actively CULTIVATED. when seriously challenged, those excuses and beliefs turn to ash. all the negativity is conditioned and can be re-conditioned but it requires a high degree of self reliance instead of reliance on outside entities. And, between you and me, since we both know this about ourselves, being stubborn as fuck 😂 Refusing to give certain thoughts momentum or to give fears the power to control our lives. Funny how you say it requires self reliance. To me, it requires relying on others first and foremost. Through their support (if you choose the right people to guide you, ofcourse) you can reach a point where you are able to (mostly) stand on your own . Knowing when and how to ask for help after that point is a skill necessary to keep growing and thriving, in my opinion. Completely self reliant, independent or 'self made' people are an impossibility, in my view. don't make it black and white tho jaeger. the decision every morning that i make as to how i will direct my energy , whether changing a habit or asking for help, happens between my two ears. in my view it is equally insane to believe i am completely self reliant. again, it goes against observable experiencr. we are woven together, as individuals, with individual power to direct our thinking and choices. thats all i mean by self reliance. the same way i tie my own shoes
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Post by alpenglow on Feb 20, 2018 14:18:15 GMT
i sound grumpy but i am not, just waking up with coffee at the moment. lol. it sounds like i am hitting someone in the face saying "you're lovable, goddammit!" but i am just groggy hahaha. i promise ❤️ I wish this technique would work, haha, it would be so easy! Slightly painful here and there, but not in the long run
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2018 14:20:45 GMT
for example, i woke up with a resentment about my ex. so i got my coffee and got on here to talk about how i CAN transform this experience . i'm not trying to bullshit myself with that, i really believe it. so i cultivate that TRUTH instead of ruminating over coffee. that's my self reliance.
i build myself up instead of tear myself down. and then i go ask people for help and encourage them as well.
i think it's awesome! and it works.
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