em
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Post by em on Mar 1, 2018 21:08:05 GMT
Today marks one year since I have spoken to my ex boyfriend who I believe was a combination of dismissive and fearful. Part of me believes he may have been more fearful, but I am not certain. We were good friends for one year, then dated for one year, stayed friends for a year after we broke up, and have now not spoken for one year. And I am still in severe pain over this.
The last time we spoke was in person. We had been broken up for a year at that time but remained friends. He treated me like something in between a friend and girl friend. There was no physical contact, but I knew on an intuitive level that he still cared and was attracted to me. After we broke up, he became more withdrawn socially. If he ever went out with anybody, it was with me. I saw him maybe five times over the period of one year after we broke up. He was under a lot of stress at work too. His sister, who he is very close with, became pregnant with twins. She wanted him to be their godfather, and he decided he should move back to the east coast to help take care of them and bond with them.
He told me he was going to move back to the east, and we met up for one last dinner before he left. I asked him what was going to become of our relationship now because I was unable to only see him as a friend. What happened next still shocks me to this day, and I need help understanding WHY he reacted this way. He became almost instantly emotionally charged when I brought this topic up. He was pacing back and forth and was almost arguing with me. I asked him why he was uncomfortable talking about this, and he said it was because he "let me go already." I'm not sure how he let me go because he told me earlier that night that he talked to me more than anybody else still. He also told me that he wished we talked more, even though he didn't reach out very much. Anyway, I asked him if he wanted to pursue a relationship again if we were to work on things. He could not answer the question. He looked down for a few seconds and then looked up and said no. He then proceeded to give me a big hug. I wished him well with his new life back at home and he got pretty irritated with me because he said I already wished him well earlier that night.
We have not spoken since. I was told that the job promised to him back home ended up having some complications, so he had to wait almost a year to get into that position. He had to live with his brother, which I'm sure he hated, until he met the requirements for the job he was originally supposed to have. Once he moved back home, he had gone completely silent on social media. I got rid of my social media, but two mutual friends told me that he was tagged in some pictures with his twin nephews at their first birthday party. They both told me that he was barely smiling in the photos, while the rest of the family was beaming happy, and that he looks a little depressed. They also said that they heard that he has become pretty antisocial.
1. Can somebody explain to me the behavior he displayed the last night we saw and spoke to each other? At the time, it felt like he despised me (despite the fact that he told me I was one of his best friends), but now I feel like he was possibly upset that things were completely ending now that he was moving? A friend once suggested to me that he may have known it was completely over and was reacting to that?
2. I am honestly feeling depressed over our breakup to this day. Is it possible that he is still upset over this too?
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Post by kelvain on Mar 1, 2018 22:10:01 GMT
I am so sorry for you. BIG HUGS going out to you! From what you described, you did nothing wrong. He sounds very consumed with his own self (not selfishly, but more in a troubled way). I would guess that he is an avoidant for sure. Nonetheless, he has feelings like each one of us. But perhaps he can't process those feelings, which could have caused his getting upset when you told him your thoughts. He possibly could have been triggered because he actually feels the same as you did but it angered him as his true feelings would have been exposed/surfaced had he not stuffed them down. This certainly could have caused his anger and to lash out at you. And had he not gotten angry, and allowed his feelings to surface instead, it would have created doubt in his mind and vastly contradicted his decision. I don't think it was YOU that he despised. I think it was his inner conflict due to his stuffing down his true feelings as he didn't want to allow any contradictory thoughts to make him second guess his decision.
My ex DA is an expert at ignoring what she feels in her heart for her logical mind. Any contradictory or challenging thoughts of which I would contribute (even in basic, non-confrontational conversations)she would get angry about because they went against her logic/reasoning. This is likely his issue.
If you are still broken over this and hurting, maybe you should give him a call. It could clear up a lot of your questions. I know I would, but that's just me. Nothing wrong with a friendly call to say hello.
Regardless, I hope you will be ok. Just remember, we are all here to support you. Many wonderful and insightful people belong to these forums.
Please keep us updated with your situation!
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nic
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Post by nic on Mar 1, 2018 22:48:31 GMT
Today marks one year since I have spoken to my ex boyfriend who I believe was a combination of dismissive and fearful. Part of me believes he may have been more fearful, but I am not certain. We were good friends for one year, then dated for one year, stayed friends for a year after we broke up, and have now not spoken for one year. And I am still in severe pain over this. The last time we spoke was in person. We had been broken up for a year at that time but remained friends. He treated me like something in between a friend and girl friend. There was no physical contact, but I knew on an intuitive level that he still cared and was attracted to me. After we broke up, he became more withdrawn socially. If he ever went out with anybody, it was with me. I saw him maybe five times over the period of one year after we broke up. He was under a lot of stress at work too. His sister, who he is very close with, became pregnant with twins. She wanted him to be their godfather, and he decided he should move back to the east coast to help take care of them and bond with them. He told me he was going to move back to the east, and we met up for one last dinner before he left. I asked him what was going to become of our relationship now because I was unable to only see him as a friend. What happened next still shocks me to this day, and I need help understanding WHY he reacted this way. He became almost instantly emotionally charged when I brought this topic up. He was pacing back and forth and was almost arguing with me. I asked him why he was uncomfortable talking about this, and he said it was because he "let me go already." I'm not sure how he let me go because he told me earlier that night that he talked to me more than anybody else still. He also told me that he wished we talked more, even though he didn't reach out very much. Anyway, I asked him if he wanted to pursue a relationship again if we were to work on things. He could not answer the question. He looked down for a few seconds and then looked up and said no. He then proceeded to give me a big hug. I wished him well with his new life back at home and he got pretty irritated with me because he said I already wished him well earlier that night. We have not spoken since. I was told that the job promised to him back home ended up having some complications, so he had to wait almost a year to get into that position. He had to live with his brother, which I'm sure he hated, until he met the requirements for the job he was originally supposed to have. Once he moved back home, he had gone completely silent on social media. I got rid of my social media, but two mutual friends told me that he was tagged in some pictures with his twin nephews at their first birthday party. They both told me that he was barely smiling in the photos, while the rest of the family was beaming happy, and that he looks a little depressed. They also said that they heard that he has become pretty antisocial. 1. Can somebody explain to me the behavior he displayed the last night we saw and spoke to each other? At the time, it felt like he despised me (despite the fact that he told me I was one of his best friends), but now I feel like he was possibly upset that things were completely ending now that he was moving? A friend once suggested to me that he may have known it was completely over and was reacting to that? 2. I am honestly feeling depressed over our breakup to this day. Is it possible that he is still upset over this too? If i were to take a stab at guessing what his reaction meant it would be that he cares about you (or he would not have met you) but he already processed that he did not want all the things it means to be in a relationship and bringing it up triggered him. He probably got into distancing mode when he thought he was going to have to defend and explain this to you. Having to be responsible for someone elses feelings can be too much for an AD and for every reason why we come up with there is usually an exhausting rebuttal because the reasons are usually misunderstood and taken personally by the other person. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2018 23:16:41 GMT
It's hard to say what happened. Its not much to go on here. Someone that sacrifices their life for their nephews doesn't sound that avoidant or selfish to me.
It's possible he didn't know you still had strong feelings for him as more than a friend and was upset that he didn't know sooner ? Then when you told him, he was already moving. He felt he had gotten over hoping you would be together again and you saying that made him realize he still had feelings too ? Not sure . This is a stab in the dark.
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Post by leavethelighton on Mar 2, 2018 0:54:33 GMT
I think if someone is triggered in a dismissive way, they may not really know what is going on themselves either-- like his getting irritable at you-- he may not have any conscious understanding of why he was suddenly acting that way either.
Maybe on some level, or on a deep level, he has feelings for you but just couldn't deal with them or couldn't admit it. But in the moment of his dismissive side getting triggered, he may have felt like he didn't.
In other words, I think a lot of this operates on the subconscious. His subconscious probably knows why he acted that way, but he may not (and I guess we can only speculate).
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em
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Post by em on Mar 2, 2018 2:58:38 GMT
He will do anything for his family. He also helps to take care of his sick grandmother and is happy to do it. But when it comes to romantic relationships, he has stated to me many times that he believes women try to control their boyfriends or husbands too much. He also told me that he is not very good with women. For example, he had an ex who would ask him what time he would be home from hanging out with his guy friends and he felt it was too invasive of her. He seems to have a serious distrust of people too. All four of his siblings are happily married and so are his cousins. He told me one day that all of his friends and family have married and are having kids and it seemed as if he was jealous, but then later on he made a comment about how he just prefers a lot of alone time. I know he suffered a very traumatic loss when he was a teenager. His cousin died in a pretty traumatic car wreck. Apparently this cousin of his was his best friend. He had pictures of this cousin up throughout his house from when they used to go skiing together. I don't know if losses like that can contribute to avoidance, but it's something I wonder about. I know his family is close, but I get the feeling that his mom is a little controlling. He also seems to get pretty annoyed whenever the topic of his dad comes up. I don't know if this is odd, but my ex is 36 and yet his parents would call him once a week to check in. And although he is close with his siblings, he seems to be jealous of two of them.
The last night that we spoke, I told him that I still had feelings for him. He told me that he suspected that I did. I was baffled by this! So he knew I still had feelings for a whole year after the breakup, but he continued to be my friend and keep me as a large part of his life? He also untags himself from pictures or deletes pictures with his exes after they break up, but he never did that with me. I know he cared for me a great deal. We went through a lot together and bonded over shared trauma within our workplace (a long story). I think he knew that I was different from his exes because we had so much more in common and have similar personalities. I also think he knew he could trust me more than he could trust them.
I will say that he originally told me when we started dating that he wanted to get married one day, but he had a lot of work to do on himself because he had a lot of "issues." The last night that I saw him (one year ago today) he told me that he wasn't even sure if he wanted marriage in his future. He said he just wants more alone time than having a family can offer. He said that I would not understand if he needed to not talk for a week or so to maintain his alone time. It seems like his view or plans in life really changed, and I'm not sure why. The year after we broke up, he really did isolate himself. He seemed depressed and even hinted at it. I would hear from him maybe once a month, but we were broken up at the time, so I had no real reason to complain. He was also having a really hard time at work with his boss.
Actually, I believe our breakup was caused by the stress his new boss started placing on him. Once this new boss came around, my ex began to change. About one month after my ex started feeling stressed on a daily basis from his new boss, I felt like something was wrong. I asked him if he still loved me in a joking way, but he took it seriously, and answered "no." I got upset and left his house that day, and he proceeded to chase after me while on my walk to my car and told me that he did love me. He looked like he was in pain for causing me pain. This was so out of character for him to follow me and apologize! But what I realized was that as soon as my ex would put himself out there emotionally, he would draw back. He would only ever put himself out there emotionally every now and then, and then it would never happen again. So after he put himself out there by following me to apologize and tell me he loved me, he was never the same again. It was like some sort of switch that went off and he closed down.
I knew things weren't right with him. I felt I was losing him. So I wrote him a letter a few weeks later about how it hurt me to feel as if I was losing him. He read it and then I asked him where we were going with our relationship because things had been troubled. He was silent. So I asked him bluntly if he wanted to stay together or not. He said he wanted to break up and proceeded to give me reasons that sounded a bit childish. He also said that I WANTED the breakup. I have no idea why he thought this. His reasoning for the breakup was that he did not like when we had arguments. He told me that if we argued more, that he would probably have to break up with me. So basically, he didn't want to deal with the conflict that comes with a human relationship. I asked him to attend couples therapy with me and he responded with "NO" and it sounded like I was talking to a child. Mind you, my ex is 36 years old. I always got the feeling that he could not handle the stress of his new boss plus a relationship with me.
My ex was one of my very best friends. He was so special to me and still is. He is a wonderful person, but I feel he was hurt emotionally in some way as a child. I have avoidant tendencies at times, so I have a decent understanding of where he is coming from. I don't know if anybody else will ever compare to him. Sometimes I want to write him a letter. I just wish I had answers to his behavior.
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em
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Post by em on Mar 2, 2018 3:05:44 GMT
My ex DA is an expert at ignoring what she feels in her heart for her logical mind. Any contradictory or challenging thoughts of which I would contribute (even in basic, non-confrontational conversations)she would get angry about because they went against her logic/reasoning. This is likely his issue. You are spot on! He is consumed in his own situation, but I can't say I blame him. His work situation was extremely stressful. And yes, that sounds just like my ex when you talk about logic over emotion. He tends to choose logic, even if he feels differently on an emotional level. |
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em
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Post by em on Mar 3, 2018 17:37:00 GMT
Do my above stories help provide any more insight? I agree with the conclusions made here, but I want to make sure this wasn't something of a "he's just not that into you" case that I was missing due to my emotions obscuring facts. I added the extra information to provide more insight. Also, thank you everybody for your comments. I was in physical pain over this because I have been holding this all inside for the past year. Your comments were like medicine. I have been feeling more at peace, which I was in desperate need of.
I just realized something. My emotions obscure facts. My exes facts obscure his emotion. Oh man.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2018 18:11:42 GMT
Do my above stories help provide any more insight? I agree with the conclusions made here, but I want to make sure this wasn't something of a "he's just not that into you" case that I was missing due to my emotions obscuring facts. I added the extra information to provide more insight. Also, thank you everybody for your comments. I was in physical pain over this because I have been holding this all inside for the past year. Your comments were like medicine. I have been feeling more at peace, which I was in desperate need of. I just realized something. My emotions obscure facts. My exes facts obscure his emotion. Oh man. Outside stress can definitely be a factor. Some people can take work stress out on their loved ones which is perhaps what he was doing and just felt overwhelmed with work stress and then the created relationship stress. Stress can break relationships for people of all styles. Avoidance is basically avoiding bad feelings. He may have rejected you because he was bringing work stress into the relationship and making you unhappy. He doesn't want you to have bad feelings either. Was there a lot of near break ups and makeups during the relationship before the work change? Was he distant in happy times? |
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em
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Post by em on Mar 3, 2018 22:17:08 GMT
mary - yes, there were some near breakups. we dated for about one year. things were pretty good the first summer we dated. he would occasionally walk in front of me if we went to the mall. now i know why.... classic avoidant. if his feelings were ever hurt, he would become a totally different person and things would get ugly, but that only happened a few times. nothing like abuse, but he would turn into a child basically. it was like something i have never seen. but, these moments weren't so common. he also initially seemed scared to death when i told him that i was in love with him. when i told him i was in love with him, he told me there was no way that was possible and that i didn't know what i was talking about. like i said, he seemed scared when i admitted my feelings and became very defensive and hyper. but a few months later, he asked if we could be official as a couple.
it wasn't until the nine month mark in our relationship that he started to change. we would argue a little more and he would determine that i didn't understand him. those were his classic words... that i didn't understand him. when his new boss came into the picture and began requiring more work hours from him, that is when things took a turn for the worst. i heard from him far less. i didn't feel supported by him because i was also going through some stress in my life. it was heartbreaking because he had previously been a great support for me. it was hard because i would barely hear from him. when we first started to get to know each other, we would talk on the phone for up for four hours at a time sometimes. he said he never talked with anybody for that long on the phone before, so i figured he must have really liked me. but near the end, i could barely get a response to text messages.
i think he was distant during happy times. like when he would walk in front of me when we first met, which was the happiest time for us. i know that he had a hard time making eye contact during sex too. i know he used to find little things about me that he would pick at. i always kept my apartment very clean, but he would freak out that it was "messy" because i had papers on my kitchen counter. he basically expects girls to be as organized as his mother. and a few times he picked at me about the music i listened to, or the clothes i wore. i feel this was a way for himself to distance from me.
i asked him near the end of our relationship if he ever loved me and he said "there were times when he was in love with me" and that "relationships are unequal. one person always loves the other a little more" - which made me feel as if he wasn't so into me. i always felt like he loved me a lot, but then he would say crap like that. does any of this information provide better insight?
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Post by mrob on Mar 4, 2018 1:17:47 GMT
I just realized something. My emotions obscure facts. My exes facts obscure his emotion. Oh man. Oh dear. Welcome to the world of discovery, em. I look at your story and can tick all the boxes. I’ve done all of those things your boyfriend did, or if I’ve been able to shove it down enough, thought of them. |
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em
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Post by em on Mar 4, 2018 1:31:23 GMT
hello mrob. thank you for the information. do you think that he loved me? i know you are not him and he is not you, but i figure you two have a lot in common and you have a deeper understanding than i could ever have of this. it has been one year since we have spoken. am i just a distant memory to him now? i feel like it's all still very recent in my head..... almost like it only happened a month or so ago.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2018 16:23:05 GMT
mary - yes, there were some near breakups. we dated for about one year. things were pretty good the first summer we dated. he would occasionally walk in front of me if we went to the mall. now i know why.... classic avoidant. if his feelings were ever hurt, he would become a totally different person and things would get ugly, but that only happened a few times. nothing like abuse, but he would turn into a child basically. it was like something i have never seen. but, these moments weren't so common. he also initially seemed scared to death when i told him that i was in love with him. when i told him i was in love with him, he told me there was no way that was possible and that i didn't know what i was talking about. like i said, he seemed scared when i admitted my feelings and became very defensive and hyper. but a few months later, he asked if we could be official as a couple. it wasn't until the nine month mark in our relationship that he started to change. we would argue a little more and he would determine that i didn't understand him. those were his classic words... that i didn't understand him. when his new boss came into the picture and began requiring more work hours from him, that is when things took a turn for the worst. i heard from him far less. i didn't feel supported by him because i was also going through some stress in my life. it was heartbreaking because he had previously been a great support for me. it was hard because i would barely hear from him. when we first started to get to know each other, we would talk on the phone for up for four hours at a time sometimes. he said he never talked with anybody for that long on the phone before, so i figured he must have really liked me. but near the end, i could barely get a response to text messages. i think he was distant during happy times. like when he would walk in front of me when we first met, which was the happiest time for us. i know that he had a hard time making eye contact during sex too. i know he used to find little things about me that he would pick at. i always kept my apartment very clean, but he would freak out that it was "messy" because i had papers on my kitchen counter. he basically expects girls to be as organized as his mother. and a few times he picked at me about the music i listened to, or the clothes i wore. i feel this was a way for himself to distance from me. i asked him near the end of our relationship if he ever loved me and he said "there were times when he was in love with me" and that "relationships are unequal. one person always loves the other a little more" - which made me feel as if he wasn't so into me. i always felt like he loved me a lot, but then he would say crap like that. does any of this information provide better insight? I don't see the walking ahead of you as classic avoidant. I am a slow walker and most times, my bf walks in front of me. It seems there were some mixed signals, but very low level (to me). Some ups and downs in any relationship are normal. He said some confusing things, and you were very sensitive to that. Barely getting responses at the end of the relationship is troubling, but perhaps he saw the relationship as not working for him. It seemed rocky, but doesn't seem there was the extreme push/pull that is talked about on here? You can go around and around wondering if he is FA, DA or whatever, but I don't know if that is productive? |
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Post by kelvain on Mar 4, 2018 22:32:50 GMT
hello mrob. thank you for the information. do you think that he loved me? i know you are not him and he is not you, but i figure you two have a lot in common and you have a deeper understanding than i could ever have of this. it has been one year since we have spoken. am i just a distant memory to him now? i feel like it's all still very recent in my head..... almost like it only happened a month or so ago. em; You need to check this out: www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVzBLLc8hb8&t=926s |
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em
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Post by em on Mar 4, 2018 22:50:46 GMT
mary, there was push-pull for sure. and I read somewhere online that avoidants will walk ahead of their partner sometimes as a way to stay physically distant. He would walk well over 20 feet in front of me, but it only happened a few times. Sometimes I felt engulfed by him and needed to get alone time, and other times he didn't want me over at all.
kelvin, that is a great video!! Very helpful. Is it safe to say that all avoidants have had some type of past serious trauma? Or could it have been something like a slow build up of parents who were just not available and/or controlling? My ex never mentioned any abuse, which doesn't mean abuse didn't happen of course. But I have a feeling that maybe he felt either neglected or engulfed while growing up. It also seems like he has a disdain for women who have any expectations of him romantically, so maybe there were some bad relationships in there too. He once said he had a girl friend who tried to get him in trouble a lot when he was younger.
Also, since learning about all of this, I am starting to feel a lot of guilt. I could have reacted in more constructive ways. I did do a pretty decent job for not knowing exactly what was going on, but I do feel as if I have contributed to his emotional pain because he mentioned a few times that I just did not understand him. I think I should write him a short email to apologize. I definitely wouldn't expect him to answer, but I feel like it's the right thing to do. What do you guys think?
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