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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 17:19:36 GMT
You all make so much sense. Thank you for sharing your perspectives and experience. It makes it so much easier to understand DAs. The problem is I enjoy dating my ex DA so much, I'm really more "avian" in that I do hope to be with a partner, like the penguins,  , with the right one of course. I enjoy holding hands, laughing together, going to a concert together, poke each other's mind, all the fun dating stuff, and of course great sex, with someone I feel attraction for. It's even better if it's someone who is willing to listen to my spiel about the Universe, offer a strong shoulder to cry on, or actually harbor deep feelings for me that I can reciprocate without fear of scaring him away. It's really hard to go without all of that for long dry spells, and I'm getting on in years. So sometimes I "get" the AP side of things. I do need my own space, so likely more Avoidant, but cannot get with a DA man, it seems, so yeah...dwindling pool and all those navel gazing fears can come clobber me on the head. I find that the more introspective DAs or FAs are female, because they are more in touch with feelings and empathy, their own and their partners'. You're doing so well compromising and negotiating space, kudos to you!  Without that innate ability, i.e. to want to be able to care for the partner, I think it really is insurmountable, for DA men especially, to couple up, except with another DA partner. |
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Post by goldilocks on Apr 4, 2018 17:52:21 GMT
You all make so much sense. Thank you for sharing your perspectives and experience. It makes it so much easier to understand DAs. The problem is I enjoy dating my ex DA so much, I'm really more "avian" in that I do hope to be with a partner, like the penguins, , with the right one of course. I enjoy holding hands, laughing together, going to a concert together, poke each other's mind, all the fun dating stuff, and of course great sex, with someone I feel attraction for. It's even better if it's someone who is willing to listen to my spiel about the Universe, offer a strong shoulder to cry on, or actually harbor deep feelings for me that I can reciprocate without fear of scaring him away. It's really hard to go without all of that for long dry spells, and I'm getting on in years. So sometimes I "get" the AP side of things. I do need my own space, so likely more Avoidant, but cannot get with a DA man, it seems, so yeah...dwindling pool and all those navel gazing fears can come clobber me on the head. Hemm, I actually do enjoy all those things. Yet, I also really enjoy my own company. Ideally, I would have both on a regular basis. I find that the more introspective DAs or FAs are female, because they are more in touch with feelings and empathy, their own and their partners'. You're doing so well compromising and negotiating space, kudos to you! Without that innate ability, i.e. to want to be able to care for the partner, I think it really is insurmountable, for DA men especially, to couple up, except with another DA partner. I actually feel really sad for DA men. The few resources that are out there seem to work better for women than for men. Also the agression towards DA´s is even more strongly layed on DA men. Marriage is actually a lot more beneficial to men than it is to women. Men live longer when married, for women it is the same. Older single men are often lonely and depressed, while older single women have friends. Usually the wife lives longer than the husband and cares for him in his final years. I wonder what we can do to create a container for healing that works for more people. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 18:08:56 GMT
i am sad for DA men as well, for the reasons goldilocks stated. I'd like to see more compassionate and empathetic support systems available for them. We have a little start right here on the boards- but really , the secret to all of this is individually healing our own attachment injuries to become more secure in our relationships.... soooo...... since DA men and AP women seem to attract like magnets, ladies it's up to you. 😃 Make them fall in love with your boundaries, self care and respect, deep understanding, and gentle loving natures. The DA world needs you lol. 💪💪💪 😍😘 i wish it were that easy, but here we are doing our best 😬 |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 18:25:33 GMT
The problem is that any such introspection is like kryptonite for most DA men....it is up to the women to decide if the very real risk of never getting anywhere with DA men is worth it, or if it is even moral to expect someone to rewire himself for you. Unfortunately, we're not birds, and many hunters are wired only to roam with the pack for the kill, occasionally to return to the cave to make babies, no questions asked. In this day and age, you're expected to cope on your own, do your own hunting, fending off the wolves and then happily put out when they drop by to say "hello" and then "thank you" as they disappear into the wilderness for weeks. I hope I'm stunningly wrong, but that's the vibe I'm getting as I gaze into the dwindling pool filling up with DAs. It seems this way this side of the pond anyways. Yes, this makes one's life a 4 with DA vs 8 on one's own - you are right that singlehood is preferable, and imho, the scourge is only getting worse with other impersonal distractions, digital media, video games, social media, etc. offering the delicious dopamine without strings attached like a real life connection. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 18:40:51 GMT
i recommend wilderness survival training as a distraction. 😑😂
but seriously, you might like it.
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Post by goldilocks on Apr 4, 2018 19:04:17 GMT
i am sad for DA men as well, for the reasons goldilocks stated. I'd like to see more compassionate and empathetic support systems available for them. We have a little start right here on the boards- but really , the secret to all of this is individually healing our own attachment injuries to become more secure in our relationships.... soooo...... I do think each working on ones own attachment injuries first is certainly the way. The boards are a great resource and I think they could be even better without the "anti DA" dynamic that sometimes takes place. (Conflating DA with narcissism, ganging up on DA exes, taking bad behaviour into the support forum) It has much improved since I signed up, and even then it was better than 6 months earlier when I first noticed this forum. When I look at the stuff that has worked for us, meditation, introspection, inner child work, I notice that these are not things our society is very accepting of in men. Maybe there are other methods that work for them, but otherwise it seems unfair that useful resources are so linked with one gender. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 19:07:22 GMT
we need a best selling book with a disarming title , coming from a different angle than "Bad Boyfriends" lol.
I value this site obviously but.... i'm not a "Bad Boyfriend".
😑
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Post by goldilocks on Apr 4, 2018 19:14:02 GMT
This is also very true. Both of Jeb's books, while clarifying, are a bit biased. Would you be interested in working on some material together? I'm not sure if it would be a book, but maybe a booklet. I'm also looking at blogs of DA people and noticed this guy's blog: medium.com/the-mission/the-future-of-love-attachment-theory-4eff9096fd1c"It’s alarming to me that studies reveal roughly half of the general population is an insecure attachment (anxious or avoidant). We are generally non-confrontational in society especially when it comes to emotions. Why is that? Why is addressing one’s emotions or even acknowledging feelings exist often labeled as a shameful thing? How utterly sad. The act of doing so is emotion inducing in and of itself." |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 19:27:41 GMT
I'd be happy to contribute to a booklet if a disgruntled, jaded view is ever needed. |
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Post by goldilocks on Apr 4, 2018 19:33:57 GMT
I'd be happy to contribute to a booklet if a disgruntled, jaded view is ever needed. LOL |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 20:18:25 GMT
I think I'll throw in a song for good measure : www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmc21V-zBq0But seriously....how does anyone even know if the DA has feeeelings for his partner? Sex is a poor indication, as most men can and will have sex with almost anything that moves...sometimes even if it doesn't move.  It's like that Rumsfeld pretzel - the unknown and unknowable unknowns...  |
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Post by serene13 on Apr 4, 2018 20:26:20 GMT
I understand and identify with this situation and relationship, curious - similar thing happened between the DA/FA I knew and myself. I believe he is more DA - he is not confused about what he can and cannot do, what he can and cannot feel and does not second guess himself or try to backtrack or control. He is respectful of what the other feels but not to the point of putting himself at risk. I respect that he knows enough about himself that he can leave a situation if he can't continue in it or it makes him uncomfortable, yet he doesn't want to hurt anyone. Of course, just getting into relationships is bound to the hurt the other person if he knows he cannot hold up the end of the bargain he seems to present in the beginning. Does that make sense? I was finally able to get to the point, like you curious, where I now know there is probably a 99% chance he will never change - and I can accept that.  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 20:42:38 GMT
I understand and identify with this situation and relationship, curious - similar thing happened between the DA/FA I knew and myself. I believe he is more DA - he is not confused about what he can and cannot do, what he can and cannot feel and does not second guess himself or try to backtrack or control. He is respectful of what the other feels but not to the point of putting himself at risk. I respect that he knows enough about himself that he can leave a situation if he can't continue in it or it makes him uncomfortable, yet he doesn't want to hurt anyone. Of course, just getting into relationships is bound to the hurt the other person if he knows he cannot hold up the end of the bargain he seems to present in the beginning. Does that make sense? I was finally able to get to the point, like you curious, where I now know there is probably a 99% chance he will never change - and I can accept that. You make a lot of sense. I'm glad to hear your own experience and perspective, and your ex sounds exactly like my ex. Yet he texted that he will not make inappropriate advances anymore even though he proposed the physical intimacy from a place of "tenderness and kindness", despite that I told him it took a lot of efforts for me to dig myself out of the quandary I was in because of my involvement with him. It's just so bizarre at so many different levels - it's so much easier if he's simply an a**hat and hightails it out of there. What I'm afraid is that he contacts me again when my defenses are down, he keeps coming back for..."something"...the unknown/unknowable unknown ...I suspect it's Sex  (I have zero doubt that if I ask him about that he'll show up pronto) - in the end, I really need to focus on the methods of forgetting, that Eternal Sunshine machine is made for people like us. |
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Post by aubreyap on Apr 4, 2018 21:40:02 GMT
I had the same thought today... I need the eternal sunshine of the spotless mind machine... erase it all lol!!
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Post by serene13 on Apr 4, 2018 21:59:57 GMT
I understand and identify with this situation and relationship, curious - similar thing happened between the DA/FA I knew and myself. I believe he is more DA - he is not confused about what he can and cannot do, what he can and cannot feel and does not second guess himself or try to backtrack or control. He is respectful of what the other feels but not to the point of putting himself at risk. I respect that he knows enough about himself that he can leave a situation if he can't continue in it or it makes him uncomfortable, yet he doesn't want to hurt anyone. Of course, just getting into relationships is bound to the hurt the other person if he knows he cannot hold up the end of the bargain he seems to present in the beginning. Does that make sense? I was finally able to get to the point, like you curious, where I now know there is probably a 99% chance he will never change - and I can accept that. You make a lot of sense. I'm glad to hear your own experience and perspective, and your ex sounds exactly like my ex. Yet he texted that he will not make inappropriate advances anymore even though he proposed the physical intimacy from a place of "tenderness and kindness", despite that I told him it took a lot of efforts for me to dig myself out of the quandary I was in because of my involvement with him. It's just so bizarre at so many different levels - it's so much easier if he's simply an a**hat and hightails it out of there. What I'm afraid is that he contacts me again when my defenses are down, he keeps coming back for..."something"...the unknown/unknowable unknown ...I suspect it's Sex (I have zero doubt that if I ask him about that he'll show up pronto) - in the end, I really need to focus on the methods of forgetting, that Eternal Sunshine machine is made for people like us. Curious - mine finally had to eliminate any possibility of contacting me by making me disappear - deleting my # from my phone - which I believe he felt would remove any weakness on his part to contact me again. He knew that there was a chance of us being in the same place accidentally - has happened twice in the last 9 months - and he seemed physically and emotionally distressed by it. When things were good in the start - he always had to be touching in some way when together - very intense - more than 2500 texts in the first 3 weeks - extremely physical. It was almost more than I could take - I like to build a little more slowly. But - wow. We were on the same wavelength. I surprised him with a visit that seemed completely normal to me - and he reacted so strongly to the negative I was in shock. Within a week he was asking - pleading - for a break. We didn't see each other for 9 months though texted occasionally. We were in the same place again one night coincidentally - had fun - became close again for about 6 weeks -something again happened that made him feel he couldn't continue. I don't think yours will come back only for sex - it's more. Mine used to say he needed to stay away because I was irresistible to him. But I think it is more than that - and that can become too much. |
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, with the right one of course.
(I have zero doubt that if I ask him about that he'll show up pronto) - in the end, I really need to focus on the methods of forgetting, that Eternal Sunshine machine is made for people like us.