liz
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by liz on Oct 16, 2018 11:09:53 GMT
Lol, well aren't you so special and perfect? I'm sure in my shoes you would have done the right thing /s Do me a favor and leave this thread. Yeah, this hit me a little off as well. liz your posts today are not coming off "secure" at all but slightly passive aggressive. Are we misunderstanding you? I would like to understand what was so "wrong", "offensive" or sarcastically "special and perfect" about the post where I stated how things would look from *her* perspective that would merit a thread eviction?
Please point those offenses or lack of civility out to me in my post? I pointed out a simple truth that is obvious to me if not anyone else - when a partner distances himself or herself during a time of crisis for the other half, the other partner will likely take that attitude/action into account when he or she decides to break up and walk away. Things do not happen in a vacuum.
It might not even be about attachment styles, but fundamental differences in how one views the meaning of a long relationship/partnership. I know of at least one Avoidant who would have done all that I have described I (and in fact more) for his ex partner.
This is a forum for everyone to offer a perspective without pre-conditions, eg we need to give "cyber hugs" to each other, tiptoe around the truth, etc. or that those who start a thread get to demand what opinions are acceptable and who gets to stay or leave.
What happens to adult maturity?
Is that even a forum rule or etiquette? Did Jeb make this rule that if someone starts a thread, if another forum user offers a polite reply not to his/her liking, he/she is entitled to be rude and demand that the poster leave the thread as if said thread is property?
I understand that this forum is open to everyone and anyone and not a small clique or cabal of users. Even if the OP and friends do not like the answer as to why someone like me would have left a situation that he described, another forum user might be open to this perspective.
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hannah
Junior Member
Posts: 67
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Post by hannah on Oct 16, 2018 11:37:29 GMT
Hello lizI was following this thread even if I haven't participate yet. I was not shocked by your first comment but a bit by the second. I don't know if what has annoyed me is the same the others are trying to point out to you, I can't speak for them. But for me it's about a lack of understanding and empathy concerning the others issues. What you said can sound a little judgemental. We don't speak from the same place, if you have never experiencied deactivation (I don't know if it's the case) it's normal you can't understand how overwhelming it is and how hard it is to be there for someone else when one feels like this. I'm FA and I can be there for people I love too but only if I'm not deactivating. |
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liz
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by liz on Oct 16, 2018 11:58:09 GMT
I would like to understand what was so "wrong", "offensive" or sarcastically "special and perfect" about the post where I stated how things would look from *her* perspective that would merit a thread eviction?
Please point those offenses or lack of civility out to me in my post? I pointed out a simple truth that is obvious to me if not anyone else - when a partner distances himself or herself during a time of crisis for the other half, the other partner will likely take that attitude/action into account when he or she decides to break up and walk away. Things do not happen in a vacuum.
It might not even be about attachment styles, but fundamental differences in how one views the meaning of a long relationship/partnership. I know of at least one Avoidant who would have done all that I have described I (and in fact more) for his ex partner.
This is a forum for everyone to offer a perspective without pre-conditions, eg we need to give "cyber hugs" to each other, tiptoe around the truth, etc. or that those who start a thread get to demand what opinions are acceptable and who gets to stay or leave.
What happens to adult maturity?
Is that even a forum rule or etiquette? Did Jeb make this rule that if someone starts a thread, if another forum user offers a polite reply not to his/her liking, he/she is entitled to be rude and demand that the poster leave the thread as if said thread is property?
I understand that this forum is open to everyone and anyone and not a small clique or cabal of users. Even if the OP and friends do not like the answer as to why someone like me would have left a situation that he described, another forum user might be open to this perspective.
Liz, if you read the thread, the op has stated his struggles and how badly he feels and how much regret he has over the break up. If you have studied attachment theory at all, you know that this is not a matter of him simply diregarding his partners feelings/needs. He is here for support to figure this out. You rubbing salt in an open wound won't help anyone. It sounds like you were hurt in a relationship with an avoidant and have some wounds. You may want to do some research on attachment wounds as this may help you resolve the anger and pain. There a lot people on here that are happy to help you. It is in no way easy to look inward. Sorry, you've got me all wrong. I have no attachment wounds, actually. I came here to understand a DA I am fond of, and I received the unvarnished feedback about my relationship with the DA in my life and made my own decisions. Most of us are here to understand our partner's point of view - we know our own. I am keeping an adult, friendly and supportive but non-romantic relationship with him by choice, and I enjoy knowing the diverse dimensions to this distant, flawed but wonderful man from the information I have read on this site. There are no wounds here as I am not wounded. It is the AP dynamic as seeing everyone as somehow "wounded", needing "rescue" and "healing" - to DAs and to a Secure, this might come across as disingenuous mollycoddling. Unless we're 5 year olds (or stuck in the mindset/emotional growth), we can surely deal with honesty, the truth as apparent to others and owning to our part in the breakup.
I'm just riled up and put off by the reply "Aren't you so perfect and special LOL. I order you to leave my thread right now!" simply for pointing out the obvious. I'd admit the "special snowflake" sand-throwing comeback isn't the most mature in this playground brawl, but neither are the other chorus "Yeah, you better apologize and leave for saying mean things to him! Look how hurt he is!"
The elephant in the room is one that is plain to see. Someone gingerly pointed out that suggestions about weight loss and alcoholism might not come across as sympathetic, especially during a stressful period of workplace problems and visa loss/deportation for said partner, that is about all. It is quite clear to me why the partner left, and I stated it. First and foremost, the role of a partner as usually understood is to offer unwavering support in a critical time of need. Drinking, putting on weight, workplace troubles that lead to quitting one's job, the stress of losing one's visa and possible deportation, they all add up to one big cry for help and reaching out to one's partner. The reason for walking away is obvious and simply not pointed out - how it all looks from her side.
Talk about empathy.
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liz
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by liz on Oct 16, 2018 12:21:41 GMT
Ok, again, the op, himself, has been beating himself up about that enough. I don't see a need for anyone to repeatedly point it out to him. I also don't understand a "secures" need to be on an attachment forum calling out others in a most unhelpful and judgemental way but we'll just have to agree to disagree on that. Yes, I certainly disagree with you, I am not interested in "rubbing salt into anyone's wound". I don't know OP or you for god's sake. I'm merely stating a truth, possibly the partner's truth, that everyone is avoiding. Just maybe I am offering *a little empathy* to the partner for what she went through too? Maybe that's the underlying problem, no one seems to be able to articulate from her side? Empathy might be *the answer*, but not what you think. It isn't about my attachment style, but whether there is a point in what I said. You might want to examine why you would arrive at your own conclusions about my "wounds", my "healing" and "need to rub salt in", etc. and...in your own "judgmental way".
I think the meta-debate can end here, unless there is a more adult and mature way to navigate this.
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hannah
Junior Member
Posts: 67
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Post by hannah on Oct 16, 2018 13:01:20 GMT
I think we can have empathy and understanding for both sides, and don't blame anyone. I'm wondering maybe it's what a secure would do?
I read the OP and I think epicgum has already acknowledge his part on the dysfunction so I don't see how point it out again could help him on his path. Anyway, it's past now, better look to what he can actually do now instead of what he could have done in the past.
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liz
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by liz on Oct 16, 2018 21:59:16 GMT
The partner is not here looking for support, the op is. It is strange that you would think this way because on almost every thread, especially on AP/DA threads that you participate in, the DAs have been giving the perspective of DA partners and pointing out the myopia of AP "altruism" to AP posters.  It's no point continuing with you applying double standards.
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Post by kristyrose on Oct 17, 2018 18:34:42 GMT
Hey Future,
This was well stated. I do think AP's can benefit from tough love indeed and that Avoidants need the trust aspect. I tend to see the dynamics play out with both sometimes triggering each other even on the boards! However, it is incredibly useful for us all to keep examining our own actions first, the answers always lie within ourselves, not outside.
Thanks for this! :-)
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liz
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by liz on Oct 17, 2018 20:07:51 GMT
It is strange that you would think this way because on almost every thread, especially on AP/DA threads that you participate in, the DAs have been giving the perspective of DA partners and pointing out the myopia of AP "altruism" to AP posters. It's no point continuing with you applying double standards.
I am AP so I'm very much aware of how an AP thinks and what happens when they activate. AP tend to look at what they can do for their partner to bring them back at their own detriment. They use a whole host of activating strategies and protest behaviors which they are not even aware of. The key for healing for an AP is to look toward themselves and find that awareness. This is something that is extremely difficult for an AP to do. Coddling us gets us nowhere. Again, it is an excruciatingly painful process. This op ( who is not AP) is already doing that and acknowledging his part in the dynamic. He needs simple support as he navigates his breakup and self awareness. It can be very difficult for all around when you realize that your relational thoughts have not actually been based in reality. Then you need to deal with what made you feel/think that way, sometimes while nursing a broken heart. Anxious ( who tend to come here looking for answers regarding getting their partner back-more activating strategies)need more tough love to snap out of their martyrdom and start the healing process and avoidants (who don't tend to come on here unless they are already becoming aware and starting the healing process) need more of a soft place to trust. This, of course, is not all black and white. I hope this helps you understand a little better. Wow...thanks, I guess, for trying to "help me understand", obviously, I'm so incapable.
epicgum wrote that he wanted the relationship, he regretted that it ended but he didn't think anything he did were "deal-breakers". I explained that in fact there were deal-breakers, from my point of view.
It doesn't matter if he believes they were deal-breakers, it is the right of another forum user to present a point of view, eg. that particular actions may be deal-breakers, because some other forum user may consider that information as well, present or future, and see another point of view. A public forum is exactly that, public and open. We are all free to decide if we agree or disagree with the views posted.
This is why censorship is wrong, and you, epicgum, camper78, etc. are attempting to censor and decide here what is permissible to post and what isn't, who may post and who may not.
It is also an adult thing to do, to accept that opinions may differ, and that someone having a different opinion doesn't constitute a personal attack.
No, I think there should not be double standards applied based on your own firm beliefs, and you are imposing your beliefs, about what is allowed to be posted and what isn't.
Tbh, I obviously disagree with your posts, I find them as judgmental and hurtful, yet I'm not telling you whether you should post them. Empathy and equality should apply without precondition to everyone, and we are free to see from different angles, from op or from his partner's, however he feels, don't you think?
I would concur that the posts that are rude and nasty should be admonished, including demands that forum users "leave" because they posted an opinion/view, politely, that another forum user doesn't like. Obviously, it isn't disagreement with my point of view that is the problem, but the style of delivery, rudeness and lack of civility.
It seems you have your favorites, so rude posts from your favorite members are fine. Telling another forum user where they may post and where they are "not allowed" to post is acceptable to you.
What I understand is that you are someone who is like the forum police? That APs need tough love and FAs/DAs need mollycoddling? I think all of us should only speak for ourselves. Not all APs will agree with you about the approach they prefer, many APs might have a different sensibility from yours, eg. some have deleted their account, so it would be disingenuous to speak for APs in general, yet they might face both, tough criticism and more coddling replies, all of which are freely posted. Despite the account deletions, it seems in general, the forum still prefers views and opinions to be freely shared, whether they rattle some sensibilities or don't.
As a free forum user, I do have a problem with you/epicgum/kristyrose/camper78..etc. telling me what I can post and what I cannot post, and where I may post or where I may not post.
Actually, I have the impression that most forum users are fine with a diversity of opinions, as long as they are expressed in a civil manner. I have not been made aware that members of this forum have the right to curtail the right to post of other members.
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Post by kristyrose on Oct 17, 2018 20:33:19 GMT
I didn't tell you what you can or cannot post, Liz. I'm not even engaging with you on this thread-
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liz
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by liz on Oct 17, 2018 20:37:45 GMT
I didn't tell you what you can or cannot post, Liz. I'm not even engaging with you on this thread- I guess I must have mistaken your support for future's replies as indicative that you share the same point of view, but I apologize if you don't. I've edited my post to reflect that, sorry. |
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Post by kristyrose on Oct 17, 2018 20:53:39 GMT
I support futures post, along with many others, the back and forth you are having has nothing to do with that, or me.
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liz
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by liz on Oct 17, 2018 22:45:38 GMT
liz I'm not sure what about my post has you so riled up. I haven't called you any names nor have I said you can't post anything you like. You accused me of a double standard and I was simply explaining why I would have different input on different threads. You don't need to agree. Some do, others may not. I am AP in an amazing, growing relationship with an FA ( with loads of hard work on both sides)so I do have something to offer those who would like to hear it. You may think and post as you wish, as will I. I'm done with this pointless and asinine debate. Good luck to you ❤ I think this thread illustrates very well the particular mentality of certain types of AP that I didn't quite understand on the DA threads, which is described as "self-serving altruism", "knowing what's best for others", and "infantilizing".
Poor OP is suffering from a breakup, therefore he must be coddled, comforted, hugged, tip-toed around, aw... shhh...let's be careful here with opinions, because he is Avoidant and needs careful coddling, but if he is AP, then he needs "tough love" and "unvarnished truth". If he is angry because he hears an opinion he doesn't like, he must be indulged when he throws a tantrum and demands that person who upsets him leave the sandbox.
Bad, naughty person to make OP angry by stating an opinion he doesn't like.
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 20, 2018 18:58:45 GMT
Confusing to me bc my ex presented as FA while he pursued and was in our relationship but near the end and through the break he’s been DA. Not sure what he really is bc he flip flopped? |
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Post by epicgum on Oct 21, 2018 0:04:24 GMT
Confusing to me bc my ex presented as FA while he pursued and was in our relationship but near the end and through the break he’s been DA. Not sure what he really is bc he flip flopped? I think insight on this board is a little limited because there aren't any Male DAs here, just FAs and female DAs. I'm not sure if DA means NO pursuit behavior. |
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Post by faithopelove on Oct 21, 2018 0:32:32 GMT
Confusing to me bc my ex presented as FA while he pursued and was in our relationship but near the end and through the break he’s been DA. Not sure what he really is bc he flip flopped? I think insight on this board is a little limited because there aren't any Male DAs here, just FAs and female DAs. I'm not sure if DA means NO pursuit behavior. [ Epic- from what I read DA’s feel they’re better off alone and feel they don’t need anyone where an FA will still desire and pursue a relationship, before becoming fearful. |
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It's no point continuing with you applying double standards. 
