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Post by sissyk on Nov 10, 2018 15:18:01 GMT
First time posting--so happy to have Googled on over here!
My backstory: I was married for 20 years and when it ended amicably enough, I took a several-year relationship sabbatical to focus on kids and work and life. A year ago I started trying a little dating and 6 months ago started seeing a fantastic man who based on my reading is likely DA.
He has never been married. He was in a seven-year relationship decades ago. He says he arrived home one day to be ambushed by a goodbye note. She left the two cats. He describes the experience as devastating to him: Afterwards, it took him 3 years to enjoy even watching a movie. He is a little vague about other dating he has done but has described himself as "single for decades." He is an accomplished man who excoriates himself for not achieving more. He is a workaholic and is obsessive about several hobbies.
When we first starting seeing each other, he was very open about how lonely he was, how fantastic it was to have found someone he could really talk to, etc!. We can talk for hours, have the same sense of humor, and are both enthusiastic equestrians. Great! But he seems completely spooked at any kind of responsibility to me at all. He says he is "bad at relationships." He says he doesn't want to disappoint me, says I am pressuring him (!!!), has suggested maybe I should see other people (I don't want to now) and we will just see if things work out between us or not. I shouldn't "rush" him. He says he has friends who he doesn't see for months at a time, which I think he sees as a good model. He can go several days without replying to my texts. If I leave him alone for a few days, he will reach out. He is an enthusiastic kisser etc etc and says how great it is to have "human contact" again but doesn't want to have actual sex yet as then I would feel we are in a relationship and he doesn't to be responsible for hurting me if it doesn't work out.
I have talked to him about a few issues--asking him to initiate more of the planning, being better about replying to texts. He did listen and has TRIED. He says I should "relax" and "be more secure about things." He is such a cool guy I don't want to throw in the towel here, especially where this feels like a bonus-round relationship for me and I feel I am getting a PhD in the human condition. And I do think he cares about me and was driven to dating by loneliness in the first place.
So do I just keep low keying it? Anything I can do to make him feel safer? Do long term DAs ever come closer in time? (He is not seeing a therapist and I doubt would want to.)
Thanks for reading!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2018 15:39:18 GMT
hi.
i'm DA.
i just want to keep it simple and say
emphatically
no you cannot make him feel "safer"
what you see is what you get here.
accept it as is with no idea of getting things mire your way.
you will not prevail with that.
it would be folly to pursue the relationship you envision with this individual, who has demonstrated clearly he is not pursuing the same thing you are.
if you feel inclined to try to change or coax him in any way shape or form in order to meet your needs, you might want to address that dunfunction in yourself. the complimentary dysfunction to avoidant is anxious preoccupied, or secure who is about to become anxious preoccupied by trying to extract a relationship from someone who isn't offering one.
best to you, welcome to the boards.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2018 15:40:04 GMT
soothing loneliness is NOT the same as pursing a relationship.
and that's why it feels like this.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2018 15:54:33 GMT
Welcome to the board. Unfortunately I agree with juniper. Going into it thinking and hoping he will change is not realistic in my opinion. Look at his past and that should be a key factor. Being driven by loneliness is not a good sign, but perhaps it's a sign he's not DA. If you are going to pursue, my advice would be that both of you get therapy early. Often times people go to therapy too late. |
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Post by sissyk on Nov 10, 2018 17:10:18 GMT
Thank you all!! I totally hear you. Was it Maya Angelou who said, "When someone tells you who they are, believe them." And he has said he is "bad at relationships" and has lived up to the billing in many ways but in other ways has been a delight.
So I am just wondering if I can learn to speak his language more and see what happens.
As my headline suggests, I posted aware that it might be hopeless to ever expect commitment, which seems to be the consensus here.
It may reach a tipping point where my annoyance and pain outweigh the feeling of connection and enjoyment of our our time together even though we are by no means a textbook love story. I am not quite there yet.
From my readings, I have been pretty secure in the past--but I can see myself getting more anxious because I don't understand how to interpret his behaviors and he is erratic in his interest and engagement level.
I have talked to him directly and even asked if he was done and he was insistent he was not. So just wanting to learn and grow and not repel this difficult fascinating person if I can sanely. I have looked around a bit and he is such a high-quality person it seems worth some more effort to hang in there.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2018 17:26:19 GMT
Commitment comes in may forms, so I don't know if it's hopeless to get some commitment. If your anxiety is increasing already, it's hard for me to see that this relationship will be satisfying to you.
What is the DA language: no expectations, no neediness, lots of space, live in the moment, don't worry about the future and most of all, don't ask him to fill your emotional space/anxiety. Don't try to interpret or figure him out. Work on filling your own emotional void/anxiety on your own.
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Post by epicgum on Nov 10, 2018 17:29:58 GMT
I'm not quite as pessimistic as the others here--i think a relationship can serve as a form of therapy and cause both people to become more secure over time.
However, there's a reason that they call it a toxic dance and you very much should learn as much as you can about it as you can, especially about the AP attachment style, which you may be, or may become.
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Post by sissyk on Nov 10, 2018 17:48:15 GMT
What is the DA language: no expectations, no neediness, lots of space, live in the moment, don't worry about the future and most of all, don't ask him to fill your emotional space/anxiety. Don't try to interpret or figure him out. Work on filling your own emotional void/anxiety on your own. Very helpful! And I will monitor my anxiety level, thank you all. |
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Post by epicgum on Nov 10, 2018 17:53:43 GMT
What is the DA language: no expectations, no neediness, lots of space, live in the moment, don't worry about the future and most of all, don't ask him to fill your emotional space/anxiety. Don't try to interpret or figure him out. Work on filling your own emotional void/anxiety on your own. Very helpful! And I will monitor my anxiety level, thank you all. Not sure if you understand, it's not about your general anxiety level, but your anxiety level within the relationship as to whether your feelings are returned. Google the protest behaviors and thought patterns for AP so you can catch yourself doing them. Secure and avoidant can work, because the secure gives the avoidant room to breath and relax and become secure himself. Avoidant and AP exacerbate each others insecurities until it spirals out of control. |
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Post by faithopelove on Nov 10, 2018 19:14:11 GMT
Hi Sissy- welcome to the boards. It sounds like you feel connected to this man on some levels but based on the fact he tells you he’s “bad at relationships” and he feels pressured and rushed by you at this stage of your relationship, I would say you would be wise to cut and leave before you get attached and completely fall for this guy. It will be easier to leave now then it will be if you develop stronger feelings, esp if you’re AP.
I’m in this dynamic on the AP side and I can tell you if I had signs at the onset that he feared intimacy, then I would’ve either left or more likely educated myself before proceeding bc the AP/DA dynamic is a minefield to navigate. Take this opportunity to step back from the relationship and check your own attachment style to see if you need to address any areas. I didn’t discover I was AP until a few years after I left my 24 year marriage- sometimes being with one partner that long can mar your judgement and make you unaware of your tendencies and blind spots. The long term relationship takes on its own rhythm with its own set of vices. I personally knew nothing about my attachment style until after dating a DA. Best wishes to you....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2018 19:23:41 GMT
Hey,
it seems to me that you are both aware of the fact that you would be a good match. So it is probably a good time to really think about your expectations and be honest with yourself. It is pretty clear from your post that you want more than he currently gives.
My advice would be to confront him and ask him of whether he can imagine wanting to commit in the future or work on himself in order to actually want to be in a relationship. Maybe discuss what would be comfortable for both of you in practical terms (texting, meeting, planning). Create a setting where he feels comfortable honestly telling you his needs.
Confrontation might be the last thing you want to since your intuition says he will run away fast. But so be it. You can learn a lot from these posts, how unaccommodated needs creates anxiousness in people and drives DAs even faster away. You can only stay secure and sane if you know your boundaries and they are met.
If he is saying crystal clear that he can't imagine committing or working towards a secure attachment than leave him and have no contact. You are at the beginning of the dance, later on it is much harder to escape.
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Post by faithopelove on Nov 10, 2018 19:29:29 GMT
“So it is probably a good time to really think about your expectations and be honest with yourself. You are at the beginning of the dance, later on it is much harder to escape.”
Yes, definitely to this 👆👆
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Post by goldilocks on Nov 10, 2018 21:13:41 GMT
First time posting--so happy to have Googled on over here! My backstory: I was married for 20 years and when it ended amicably enough, I took a several-year relationship sabbatical to focus on kids and work and life. A year ago I started trying a little dating and 6 months ago started seeing a fantastic man who based on my reading is likely DA. He has never been married. He was in a seven-year relationship decades ago. He says he arrived home one day to be ambushed by a goodbye note. She left the two cats. He describes the experience as devastating to him: Afterwards, it took him 3 years to enjoy even watching a movie. He is a little vague about other dating he has done but has described himself as "single for decades." He is an accomplished man who excoriates himself for not achieving more. He is a workaholic and is obsessive about several hobbies. When we first starting seeing each other, he was very open about how lonely he was, how fantastic it was to have found someone he could really talk to, etc!. We can talk for hours, have the same sense of humor, and are both enthusiastic equestrians. Great! But he seems completely spooked at any kind of responsibility to me at all. He says he is "bad at relationships." He says he doesn't want to disappoint me, says I am pressuring him (!!!), has suggested maybe I should see other people (I don't want to now) and we will just see if things work out between us or not. I shouldn't "rush" him. He says he has friends who he doesn't see for months at a time, which I think he sees as a good model. He can go several days without replying to my texts. If I leave him alone for a few days, he will reach out. He is an enthusiastic kisser etc etc and says how great it is to have "human contact" again but doesn't want to have actual sex yet as then I would feel we are in a relationship and he doesn't to be responsible for hurting me if it doesn't work out. I have talked to him about a few issues--asking him to initiate more of the planning, being better about replying to texts. He did listen and has TRIED. He says I should "relax" and "be more secure about things." He is such a cool guy I don't want to throw in the towel here, especially where this feels like a bonus-round relationship for me and I feel I am getting a PhD in the human condition. And I do think he cares about me and was driven to dating by loneliness in the first place. So do I just keep low keying it? Anything I can do to make him feel safer? Do long term DAs ever come closer in time? (He is not seeing a therapist and I doubt would want to.) Thanks for reading! It sounds like you are hoping for more than a friendship. He sounds like a really great guy who is not relationship material. You can have him in your life or you can have a relationship in the way you desire. You can even have both if you enjoy a friendship with him and have a committed relationship with a man who wants that with you. I have been DA since childhood and am earned secure now, so that is my perspective. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2018 0:17:30 GMT
Hey, it seems to me that you are both aware of the fact that you would be a good match. So it is probably a good time to really think about your expectations and be honest with yourself. It is pretty clear from your post that you want more than he currently gives. My advice would be to confront him and ask him of whether he can imagine wanting to commit in the future or work on himself in order to actually want to be in a relationship. Maybe discuss what would be comfortable for both of you in practical terms (texting, meeting, planning). Create a setting where he feels comfortable honestly telling you his needs. Confrontation might be the last thing you want to since your intuition says he will run away fast. But so be it. You can learn a lot from these posts, how unaccommodated needs creates anxiousness in people and drives DAs even faster away. You can only stay secure and sane if you know your boundaries and they are met. If he is saying crystal clear that he can't imagine committing or working towards a secure attachment than leave him and have no contact. You are at the beginning of the dance, later on it is much harder to escape. confront him?!! it seems as though she might have to confront herself. he's pretty clear on his overall willingness and expectation. she's the one who is being kind of out of bounds asking an internet of strangers if a relationship is possible with a man who said it really isn't likely. this gets really strange to me sometimes. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2018 1:04:13 GMT
what does confrontation even look like here?
"hey buddy. are you gonna look into all your childhood wounds and internal pain and dysfunction soon so i can get what i want from you? cause if not, i love you but buhbye!!!!"
lol but seriously, attachment injury recovery is not primarily for a partner in the case of a DA- it's for healing pain that's important to the DA. it's deep stuff, and takes years.
we aren't relationship centric, conditioned to be that way through early neglect and abuse.
it's more than stepping up for a person who wants what we aren't offering.
this is my perspective as a DA- this all seems so predatory in a way. and selfish.
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