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Post by epicgum on Nov 12, 2018 18:47:23 GMT
my opinion, is that if you offer help to another adult it ought ht to be candid and nothing covert. and definitely let him know of you see him as a little boy in an adult body if that's the case. it's important for him to know how he is perceived by his partner in such a situation. so in this instance, if you were comfortable revealing your impressions and perspective of him directly to him, as written on this thread, then that's a start. and then, i believe you would need to be willing to reveal to him that you think you might have good ideas (or will be looking for some) as to how he could improve or evolve himself and what your objectives for him are. i think you should plainly tell him where you think he may be deficient or in need of remodeling or assistance, and let him absorb all that. next, you could ask for explicit permission to help him in the ways that you are thinking you might be able to. That's the key part. Consent from the party who is a target of the rescue mission. we are talking about adults, after all. if you were able to gain his full endorsement for the project, then i think it would be a fair and fully agreed upon venture, and you two could be assured that you are working toward the same goals with a mutual agenda and potential outcome. then there could be accountability, cooperation, etc etc, characteristic of an adult mutually respectful relationship. i've not seen any kind of help program in the AP/avoidant dynamic that remotely resembles this. in the case of a broken arm, such mutual frankness and agreement would be normal and expected. in the case of rescuing partners, so much is undertaken without agreement of the other party. this is wrong, to do this with another adult , in my opinion. just my take. Oh I totally agree with this...now...lol |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 18:49:59 GMT
my opinion, is that if you offer help to another adult it ought ht to be candid and nothing covert. and definitely let him know of you see him as a little boy in an adult body if that's the case. it's important for him to know how he is perceived by his partner in such a situation. so in this instance, if you were comfortable revealing your impressions and perspective of him directly to him, as written on this thread, then that's a start. and then, i believe you would need to be willing to reveal to him that you think you might have good ideas (or will be looking for some) as to how he could improve or evolve himself and what your objectives for him are. i think you should plainly tell him where you think he may be deficient or in need of remodeling or assistance, and let him absorb all that. next, you could ask for explicit permission to help him in the ways that you are thinking you might be able to. That's the key part. Consent from the party who is a target of the rescue mission. we are talking about adults, after all. if you were able to gain his full endorsement for the project, then i think it would be a fair and fully agreed upon venture, and you two could be assured that you are working toward the same goals with a mutual agenda and potential outcome. then there could be accountability, cooperation, etc etc, characteristic of an adult mutually respectful relationship. i've not seen any kind of help program in the AP/avoidant dynamic that remotely resembles this. in the case of a broken arm, such mutual frankness and agreement would be normal and expected. in the case of rescuing partners, so much is undertaken without agreement of the other party. this is wrong, to do this with another adult , in my opinion. just my take. Oh I totally agree with this...now...lol anything less than full disclosure is control. i wonder how many fixers would appreciate the treatment lol. |
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Post by epicgum on Nov 12, 2018 19:07:11 GMT
Oh I totally agree with this...now...lol anything less than full disclosure is control. i wonder how many fixers would appreciate the treatment lol. I mean...to be honest the "fixing" attempts that I was subjected to didn't bother me in the slightest. Unless I was cornered, or threatened ofc. Haha. Then I freeze/get scared and run! What I lament is my own passive fixing behavior, both because working on things together as a team open and honestly might have actually opened things up and allowed us both to overcome shit together and because of the emotional blocks it put in my own mind kept me from truly embracing the relationship. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 19:25:57 GMT
anything less than full disclosure is control. i wonder how many fixers would appreciate the treatment lol. I mean...to be honest the "fixing" attempts that I was subjected to didn't bother me in the slightest. Unless I was cornered, or threatened ofc. Haha. Then I freeze/get scared and run! What I lament is my own passive fixing behavior, both because working on things together as a team open and honestly might have actually opened things up and allowed us both to overcome shit together and because of the emotional blocks it put in my own mind kept me from truly embracing the relationship. i understand. for a dismissive, tho, the lifestyle changes required to make an unhappy partner satisfied are profound. i think the reaction to fixing behaviors says it all---exit stage left, most often. we have the least similar makeup and drives, to the other styles. we also wouldn't dream of revamping a person to suit our needs, with our deep desire for autonomy ourselves. totally different animal i guess. |
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Post by tnr9 on Nov 12, 2018 19:34:14 GMT
my opinion, is that if you offer help to another adult it ought ht to be candid and nothing covert. and definitely let him know of you see him as a little boy in an adult body if that's the case. it's important for him to know how he is perceived by his partner in such a situation. so in this instance, if you were comfortable revealing your impressions and perspective of him directly to him, as written on this thread, then that's a start. and then, i believe you would need to be willing to reveal to him that you think you might have good ideas (or will be looking for some) as to how he could improve or evolve himself and what your objectives for him are. i think you should plainly tell him where you think he may be deficient or in need of remodeling or assistance, and let him absorb all that. next, you could ask for explicit permission to help him in the ways that you are thinking you might be able to. That's the key part. Consent from the party who is a target of the rescue mission. we are talking about adults, after all. if you were able to gain his full endorsement for the project, then i think it would be a fair and fully agreed upon venture, and you two could be assured that you are working toward the same goals with a mutual agenda and potential outcome. then there could be accountability, cooperation, etc etc, characteristic of an adult mutually respectful relationship. i've not seen any kind of help program in the AP/avoidant dynamic that remotely resembles this. in the case of a broken arm, such mutual frankness and agreement would be normal and expected. in the case of rescuing partners, so much is undertaken without agreement of the other party. this is wrong, to do this with another adult , in my opinion. just my take. I will respond since I am the one who spoke to the lost little boys in adult bodies as being my weakness. As you can imagine.....that is not an adult perspective.....that is a little girl who sees a little boy and thinks she can be "the one". To speak to what you have above would be to expose that little girl and that is something that I think most of us don't want to honestly do...if we are actually aware that it isn't coming from an adult perspective. But what I find really interesting is that it doesn't happen with secure men or confident men...it happens with men who I get this...gosh, I don't know what to call it...vibe from....gosh this is going to put me on the bbq pit.....hurt, misunderstood men who i sense are looking for love, caring, understanding...but...are also typically addicted, emotional unavailable, have a really spotty relationship history, have complicated relationships with their parents.....and I automatically go into rescue, caretake, potential mode. I know I am opening myself for all kinds of reality smacked owns and that is fine...I want to keep this real. I think there has to be some availability....something to keep me going...I don't pursue after men who don't respond in some way to me being the encourager...BUT.....I place way too much importance in needing to prove myself via my encouraging skills...as if that is all I have to offer. I can honestly speak to how it feels from the other side...it feels manipulative and explotive and distrustful and icky.....it oozes with ulterior motives and desperation. It doesn't ask, but almost demands me to give something I don't have capacity to give. And it is interesting how I can reject it so callously when I feel it in someone else...but still have it in my box of tools. |
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Post by sissyk on Nov 12, 2018 19:38:25 GMT
And indeed it is the plotline of many a rom.com and My Fair Lady to Pretty Woman. Our culture feeds us lots of stories of unlikely love triumphing against hopeless odds for a happily ever after.....So it is easy to want to pick up the story line. Bring it on! I can do this!! I love a challenge! in real life, this kind of fixing and "helping" (with an agenda, clearly) can feel very disrespectful, controlling, and oppressive to the recipient. The only kind of "fixing" I could imagine with my long single DA friend is me hanging around without drama and showing that it was safe for him to trust me more if he chooses to/can/wants to. Can that possibly be a bad thing? He takes umbrage when I suggest a new joint supplement so he would not tolerate the first whiff of me trying to actively make him over. But I am totally loving the new perspective that I should appreciate him for who he is now and what he does offer. I honestly feel a weight has been lifted. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 19:39:29 GMT
my opinion, is that if you offer help to another adult it ought ht to be candid and nothing covert. and definitely let him know of you see him as a little boy in an adult body if that's the case. it's important for him to know how he is perceived by his partner in such a situation. so in this instance, if you were comfortable revealing your impressions and perspective of him directly to him, as written on this thread, then that's a start. and then, i believe you would need to be willing to reveal to him that you think you might have good ideas (or will be looking for some) as to how he could improve or evolve himself and what your objectives for him are. i think you should plainly tell him where you think he may be deficient or in need of remodeling or assistance, and let him absorb all that. next, you could ask for explicit permission to help him in the ways that you are thinking you might be able to. That's the key part. Consent from the party who is a target of the rescue mission. we are talking about adults, after all. if you were able to gain his full endorsement for the project, then i think it would be a fair and fully agreed upon venture, and you two could be assured that you are working toward the same goals with a mutual agenda and potential outcome. then there could be accountability, cooperation, etc etc, characteristic of an adult mutually respectful relationship. i've not seen any kind of help program in the AP/avoidant dynamic that remotely resembles this. in the case of a broken arm, such mutual frankness and agreement would be normal and expected. in the case of rescuing partners, so much is undertaken without agreement of the other party. this is wrong, to do this with another adult , in my opinion. just my take. I will respond since I am the one who spoke to the lost little boys in adult bodies as being my weakness. As you can imagine.....that is not an adult perspective.....that is a little girl who sees a little boy and thinks she can be "the one". To speak to what you have above would be to expose that little girl and that is something that I think most of us don't want to honestly do...if we are actually aware that it isn't coming from an adult perspective. But what I find really interesting is that it doesn't happen with secure men or confident men...it happens with men who I get this...gosh, I don't know what to call it...vibe from....gosh this is going to put me on the bbq pit.....hurt, misunderstood men who i sense are looking for love, caring, understanding...but...are also typically addicted, emotional unavailable, have a really spotty relationship history, have complicated relationships with their parents.....and I automatically go into rescue, caretake, potential mode. I know I am opening myself for all kinds of reality smacked owns and that is fine...I want to keep this real. I think there has to be some availability....something to keep me going...I don't pursue after men who don't respond in some way to me being the encourager...BUT.....I place way too much importance in needing to prove myself via my encouraging skills...as if that is all I have to offer. I can honestly speak to how it feels from the other side...it feels manipulative and explotive and distrustful and icky.....it oozes with ulterior motives and desperation. It doesn't ask, but almost demands me to give something I don't have capacity to give. And it is interesting how I can reject it so callously when I feel it in someone else...but still have it in my box of tools. i respect your candor so much here. i'm not going to bbq you  i appreciate that you can validate what these feels like! it's just sickening, as a DA, to be manipulated by someone like this. and, in the original post here, it was indeed mentioned that the DA (?) in question already felt pressured and rushed. that matters. that REALLY matters. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 19:50:31 GMT
in real life, this kind of fixing and "helping" (with an agenda, clearly) can feel very disrespectful, controlling, and oppressive to the recipient. The only kind of "fixing" I could imagine with my long single DA friend is me hanging around without drama and showing that it was safe for him to trust me more if he chooses to/can/wants to. Can that possibly be a bad thing? He takes umbrage when I suggest a new joint supplement so he would not tolerate the first whiff of me trying to actively make him over. But I am totally loving the new perspective that I should appreciate him for who he is now and what he does offer. I honestly feel a weight has been lifted. if you can be his friend and not hold the reins at all he will value that for what it is- a loose relationship. that's what many DA want, because the other interests in their lives are truly interesting to them: we may want a relationship but freedom, autonomy, and wide open space in our internal landscape is what we thrive with. my previous partner whom i do love and have released, is dismissive but also a free soul. i get him as such, i am the same. the reason my current relationship feels so amazing to me is 1) we both are emotionally available 2) he adores me just as i am and wouldn't tweak a thing. i feel the same about him. i've tweaked some things without prompting because i want to and am ready. with many DA, it's bittersweet and such a tender but wrenching experience to appreciate the wonderful things about them knowing that they just can never be what you would need them to be to have an intimate committed relationship that fills you up. they may suffer in some ways, but it's not necessarily the same way a relationship-centric type would, over the lack of relationship. so, if a warm friendship is right up your alley, enjoy! if he wants more he will let you know. but never assume he does just because it's fun and a great connecttion. that's all many DA really need or want unless there is some shift internally that no partner can provoke. it's just an internal thing. again, it's my take as DA, i know that every person is unique and is influenced by countless factors , temperament, history, biology, etc. we just generally don't emphasize relationship as much as other types. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 20:01:21 GMT
btw chuckling about the joint supplement. yeah, typical- independent and autonomous to the extreme. it's so difficult to soften that lol. i've done it to some degree. i'm so thankful that my partner just really loves that in me and isn't at all put off by my stubborn nature around stuff like that- he is a really strong and independent man who is very relationship centric. i've enjoyed the nifty combo of closeness and absolute hands off no maintenance of me. except when i need it and i know it.  it's a neat dynamic that works both ways and feels wonderful. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 20:40:18 GMT
I will respond since I am the one who spoke to the lost little boys in adult bodies as being my weakness. As you can imagine.....that is not an adult perspective.....that is a little girl who sees a little boy and thinks she can be "the one". To speak to what you have above would be to expose that little girl and that is something that I think most of us don't want to honestly do...if we are actually aware that it isn't coming from an adult perspective. But what I find really interesting is that it doesn't happen with secure men or confident men...it happens with men who I get this...gosh, I don't know what to call it...vibe from....gosh this is going to put me on the bbq pit.....hurt, misunderstood men who i sense are looking for love, caring, understanding...but...are also typically addicted, emotional unavailable, have a really spotty relationship history, have complicated relationships with their parents.....and I automatically go into rescue, caretake, potential mode. I know I am opening myself for all kinds of reality smacked owns and that is fine...I want to keep this real. I think there has to be some availability....something to keep me going...I don't pursue after men who don't respond in some way to me being the encourager...BUT.....I place way too much importance in needing to prove myself via my encouraging skills...as if that is all I have to offer. I can honestly speak to how it feels from the other side...it feels manipulative and explotive and distrustful and icky.....it oozes with ulterior motives and desperation. It doesn't ask, but almost demands me to give something I don't have capacity to give. And it is interesting how I can reject it so callously when I feel it in someone else...but still have it in my box of tools. I call them man-children and I have dated them (AP ones). I fall in with them because I am a woman-child, so we make the perfect party pair. I have found these are relationships with a shelf life. Fun in the beginning, but get stale over time. I think it's rare that they will grow up. Even for me, I have some awareness, but I may only have hit my teen years and it took a lot of work to get there. |
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lilos
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Post by lilos on Nov 12, 2018 22:48:25 GMT
I will respond since I am the one who spoke to the lost little boys in adult bodies as being my weakness. As you can imagine.....that is not an adult perspective.....that is a little girl who sees a little boy and thinks she can be "the one". To speak to what you have above would be to expose that little girl and that is something that I think most of us don't want to honestly do...if we are actually aware that it isn't coming from an adult perspective. But what I find really interesting is that it doesn't happen with secure men or confident men...it happens with men who I get this...gosh, I don't know what to call it...vibe from....gosh this is going to put me on the bbq pit.....hurt, misunderstood men who i sense are looking for love, caring, understanding...but...are also typically addicted, emotional unavailable, have a really spotty relationship history, have complicated relationships with their parents.....and I automatically go into rescue, caretake, potential mode. I know I am opening myself for all kinds of reality smacked owns and that is fine...I want to keep this real. I think there has to be some availability....something to keep me going...I don't pursue after men who don't respond in some way to me being the encourager...BUT.....I place way too much importance in needing to prove myself via my encouraging skills...as if that is all I have to offer. I can honestly speak to how it feels from the other side...it feels manipulative and explotive and distrustful and icky.....it oozes with ulterior motives and desperation. It doesn't ask, but almost demands me to give something I don't have capacity to give. And it is interesting how I can reject it so callously when I feel it in someone else...but still have it in my box of tools. I call them man-children and I have dated them (AP ones). I fall in with them because I am a woman-child, so we make the perfect party pair. I have found these are relationships with a shelf life. Fun in the beginning, but get stale over time. I think it's rare that they will grow up. Even for me, I have some awareness, but I may only have hit my teen years and it took a lot of work to get there. Oh Mary- this is not encouraging to me!!! I keep telling people that I have just figured out I am a child living the life of an adult and that I seriously need to grow up! I had more hope than you make this sound.... |
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Post by alexandra on Nov 12, 2018 23:24:27 GMT
lilos, it is rare to grow up without wanting to and being willing to do the work and invest the effort. Usually someone does this when they're in pain and are willing to make real changes to overcome it. It's not impossible by any means! But expecting a (wo)man-child partner to do it who has shown little growth-mindset interest is usually expecting too much -- that comes with a shelf life.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2018 0:13:11 GMT
I call them man-children and I have dated them (AP ones). I fall in with them because I am a woman-child, so we make the perfect party pair. I have found these are relationships with a shelf life. Fun in the beginning, but get stale over time. I think it's rare that they will grow up. Even for me, I have some awareness, but I may only have hit my teen years and it took a lot of work to get there. Oh Mary- this is not encouraging to me!!! I keep telling people that I have just figured out I am a child living the life of an adult and that I seriously need to grow up! I had more hope than you make this sound.... Oh there is tons of hope to grow up. You already realized you want to and are taking steps to get there. Look at all the people on this forum who grow every day. Honestly, there are a lot of parts of me that I want to hold on to and not change. There are tweaks I need to make, but I'm happy and I'm happy with who I am. It's a life journey and if you can enjoy the road, that is half the battle |
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Post by sissyk on Nov 13, 2018 20:00:17 GMT
btw chuckling about the joint supplement. yeah, typical- independent and autonomous to the extreme. it's so difficult to soften that lol. i've done it to some degree. i'm so thankful that my partner just really loves that in me and isn't at all put off by my stubborn nature around stuff like that- he is a really strong and independent man who is very relationship centric. i've enjoyed the nifty combo of closeness and absolute hands off no maintenance of me. except when i need it and i know it. it's a neat dynamic that works both ways and feels wonderful. That's great to hear you are finding a great dynamic I am finding all these insights very helpful.
I am sensitive to other people's social cues so I have over these months been careful not to text him too often and to respect the time he spends on the extracurrics he is passionate about. What is such a relief is knowing that his pace and limits and needs are his stuff--not something I am doing "wrong" because our relationship isn't following my logic.
Our situation seems to make sense through this new prism and it is a relief I am not crazy or missing something. I think that will free me to give him more space to be who he is.
This thread has also helped my empathy quotient. I like a good amount of alone time myself and would feel smothered if someone wanted ME to be much more together than I wanted to be.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2018 21:11:38 GMT
btw chuckling about the joint supplement. yeah, typical- independent and autonomous to the extreme. it's so difficult to soften that lol. i've done it to some degree. i'm so thankful that my partner just really loves that in me and isn't at all put off by my stubborn nature around stuff like that- he is a really strong and independent man who is very relationship centric. i've enjoyed the nifty combo of closeness and absolute hands off no maintenance of me. except when i need it and i know it. it's a neat dynamic that works both ways and feels wonderful. That's great to hear you are finding a great dynamic I am finding all these insights very helpful.
I am sensitive to other people's social cues so I have over these months been careful not to text him too often and to respect the time he spends on the extracurrics he is passionate about. What is such a relief is knowing that his pace and limits and needs are his stuff--not something I am doing "wrong" because our relationship isn't following my logic.
Our situation seems to make sense through this new prism and it is a relief I am not crazy or missing something. I think that will free me to give him more space to be who he is.
This thread has also helped my empathy quotient. I like a good amount of alone time myself and would feel smothered if someone wanted ME to be much more together than I wanted to be.
oh yes, it's totally his stuff! one of the best things i have ever read is the post by anne12 sharing insight into DA, in the thread for healing dismissive attachment in the general forum. i can tag you. it's important to have empathy and insight into our own issues and i found a lot for myself there. there is a thread for healing AP (called Ambivalent) and FA (called disorganized ) in that forum also! i'm glad that the insight is helping you, i know it's a lot but open dialog is the best way to begin to understand, in my opinion. 🌸 |
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