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Post by faithopelove on Nov 11, 2018 17:55:29 GMT
Haha. Totally hear this!!! As I mentioned we are both horse people. And every horse story is a variation of National Velvet. Girl finds down-on-luck horse. Through patience and carrots, gradually earns shy horse's trust. Horse is a diamond in the rough! They win the big race! The crowd roars! At the same time, I am a believer in the growth mindset in most arenas. People can get better at things and change. Of course this would be if HE wants to and I totally hear that is not up to me and signs are not hopeful. But he has told me he suffers from social anxiety in general and has found it hard to approach women in the past and his narrative is that he is regretful he never married had kids etc. But watch the action not the talk I know! Yeh...lost little boys inside of emotionally unavailable men are my weakness. The guy I was talking about earlier has never been married either...and he talks about wanting to get married and have kids (he has a son but never married her), but he also has some social anxiety and has only dated girls who have pursued him. As you may tell....I still have feelings for him even though it has almost been 2 years since he broke up with me, which is why I would prefer to share so that others can choose a more informed direction. Exactly...and my ex DA appeared to be capable and put together well. He pursued me and showed up with a dozen roses on our first date. He was the one who wanted to be “all in” and pursued hard. I actually thought it was too soon but I ignored my instincts and allowed him to set the pace. Then after he had to have me, he had to leave. Even though he told me in the past he didn’t open his heart and let anyone in, he was extremely attentive and wonderful to me. Best guy I’ve ever known- I completely fell for him. I really think he expected perfection in a relationship with zero bumps. A bump signals an exit. I didn’t see signs of his DA tendencies until five months in. Guarding the heart is key. If I had done that, I never would’ve signed up for a committed relationship that early on in the game when I had hesitations. You just don’t know someone yet. Better to take things slowly and protect yourself. |
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Post by epicgum on Nov 11, 2018 22:43:10 GMT
The other thing to be very mindful of is the "fairytale stories"....you may have some familiarity with them....this is where you may believe you can achieve with him what other women have not....it is a very AP perspective...feeds into all sorts of rescue type thoughts and behavior but it boils down to this underlying need to earn love and this idea that giving what we think the other person wants will lead to some fairy tale ending. It is pretty darn attractive to think this way when a little girl or boy....however...it is completely detrimental to having a mature relationship where 2 people want to be with each other when the slant of thought is...I can "win him over", even though his past is chock full of red flags and broken relationships. Have compassion for the little girl...but don't go down that rabbit hole of happily ever after.....because he isn't in that hole with you.🙂 Haha. Totally hear this!!! As I mentioned we are both horse people. And every horse story is a variation of National Velvet. Girl finds down-on-luck horse. Through patience and carrots, gradually earns shy horse's trust. Horse is a diamond in the rough! They win the big race! The crowd roars! At the same time, I am a believer in the growth mindset in most arenas. People can get better at things and change. Of course this would be if HE wants to and I totally hear that is not up to me and signs are not hopeful. But he has told me he suffers from social anxiety in general and has found it hard to approach women in the past and his narrative is that he is regretful he never married had kids etc. But watch the action not the talk I know! Not just girls with the "down on his luck" horse story. Guys do it too. Crazy how utterly insane it sounds and how thoroughly I believed it as though it was the most normal thing in the world. "I can change you! I can make you happy! I can release the greatness within you! Wheeeeeeeee!" |
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Post by epicgum on Nov 11, 2018 22:47:55 GMT
Yeh...lost little boys inside of emotionally unavailable men are my weakness. The guy I was talking about earlier has never been married either...and he talks about wanting to get married and have kids (he has a son but never married her), but he also has some social anxiety and has only dated girls who have pursued him. As you may tell....I still have feelings for him even though it has almost been 2 years since he broke up with me, which is why I would prefer to share so that others can choose a more informed direction. Exactly...and my ex DA appeared to be capable and put together well. He pursued me and showed up with a dozen roses on our first date. He was the one who wanted to be “all in” and pursued hard. I actually thought it was too soon but I ignored my instincts and allowed him to set the pace. Then after he had to have me, he had to leave. Even though he told me in the past he didn’t open his heart and let anyone in, he was extremely attentive and wonderful to me. Best guy I’ve ever known- I completely fell for him. I really think he expected perfection in a relationship with zero bumps. A bump signals an exit. I didn’t see signs of his DA tendencies until five months in. Guarding the heart is key. If I had done that, I never would’ve signed up for a committed relationship that early on in the game when I had hesitations. You just don’t know someone yet. Better to take things slowly and protect yourself. I dunno, I think this is one of those million dollar questions. Who knows how fast you should go. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 0:13:15 GMT
Haha. Totally hear this!!! As I mentioned we are both horse people. And every horse story is a variation of National Velvet. Girl finds down-on-luck horse. Through patience and carrots, gradually earns shy horse's trust. Horse is a diamond in the rough! They win the big race! The crowd roars! At the same time, I am a believer in the growth mindset in most arenas. People can get better at things and change. Of course this would be if HE wants to and I totally hear that is not up to me and signs are not hopeful. But he has told me he suffers from social anxiety in general and has found it hard to approach women in the past and his narrative is that he is regretful he never married had kids etc. But watch the action not the talk I know! Not just girls with the "down on his luck" horse story. Guys do it too. Crazy how utterly insane it sounds and how thoroughly I believed it as though it was the most normal thing in the world. "I can change you! I can make you happy! I can release the greatness within you! Wheeeeeeeee!" right? it's tragically comical when it comes to this stuff, once you get far enough out from it. |
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Post by sissyk on Nov 12, 2018 0:38:30 GMT
I'll keep you all posted if I win the Grand National!  But the takeaway for me so far is I should ENDEAVOR (it is a process!) to accept and appreciate him for who he is, not take his behaviors as a referendum on my self worth, not let his day-to-day responsiveness determine my "weather," be kindly but clear with him about what I want and need even if it rocks the boat, look bravely at what I am contributing to this dynamic and what I am getting out of the dance here. And get my mind wrapped around the fact that signs point to the fact that all he wants/needs/can do may be a warm friendship, which is a pretty nice thing in and of itself. So grateful that I am hearing this before I am in tooooo deeeeep! |
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Post by chipper on Nov 12, 2018 0:45:37 GMT
I’m a growth mindset guy, and took the same approach with her. “Oh, I can help her. You can grow!” Ya da ya da ya da.
I was able to get her to read attached, and take an attachment test. But that’s about as far as we got.
What really sucked about the “white knight” complex for me is that she was a great match in many ways. Most of our issues were linked to attachment (based on literature, at least), so I had the thought that if that could change, things would be great.
Change is scary, and she ran.
I do think there’s a fine line between wanting to help someone, and wanting to change them. If you break your arm, of course I want to help you fix it, right? We don’t treat mental health the same way, unfortunately.
Sorry if I’m short on advice. Just sharing anecdotes (and getting a bit off my chest. 😉)
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Post by chipper on Nov 12, 2018 0:47:23 GMT
I'll keep you all posted if I win the Grand National! But the takeaway for me so far is I should ENDEAVOR (it is a process!) to accept and appreciate him for who he is, not take his behaviors as a referendum on my self worth, not let his day-to-day responsiveness determine my "weather," be kindly but clear with him about what I want and need even if it rocks the boat, look bravely at what I am contributing to this dynamic and what I am getting out of the dance here. And get my mind wrapped around the fact that signs point to the fact that all he wants/needs/can do may be a warm friendship, which is a pretty nice thing in and of itself. So grateful that I am hearing this before I am in tooooo deeeeep! And set a boundary so you know when to get out. You’ve got this though. Good luck! |
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Post by leavethelighton on Nov 12, 2018 1:07:06 GMT
I'll keep you all posted if I win the Grand National! But the takeaway for me so far is I should ENDEAVOR (it is a process!) to accept and appreciate him for who he is, not take his behaviors as a referendum on my self worth, not let his day-to-day responsiveness determine my "weather," be kindly but clear with him about what I want and need even if it rocks the boat, look bravely at what I am contributing to this dynamic and what I am getting out of the dance here. And get my mind wrapped around the fact that signs point to the fact that all he wants/needs/can do may be a warm friendship, which is a pretty nice thing in and of itself. So grateful that I am hearing this before I am in tooooo deeeeep! You second paragraph there is great! Like we should post it at the top of all the forums as a piece of general advice. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 1:07:12 GMT
I’m a growth mindset guy, and took the same approach with her. “Oh, I can help her. You can grow!” Ya da ya da ya da. I was able to get her to read attached, and take an attachment test. But that’s about as far as we got. What really sucked about the “white knight” complex for me is that she was a great match in many ways. Most of our issues were linked to attachment (based on literature, at least), so I had the thought that if that could change, things would be great. Change is scary, and she ran. I do think there’s a fine line between wanting to help someone, and wanting to change them. If you break your arm, of course I want to help you fix it, right? We don’t treat mental health the same way, unfortunately. Sorry if I’m short on advice. Just sharing anecdotes (and getting a bit off my chest. 😉) i agree there is a fine line. especially when you want something out of the deal- and have a want for something more from the person you're "helping" very dicey. |
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Post by faithopelove on Nov 12, 2018 1:18:27 GMT
Exactly...and my ex DA appeared to be capable and put together well. He pursued me and showed up with a dozen roses on our first date. He was the one who wanted to be “all in” and pursued hard. I actually thought it was too soon but I ignored my instincts and allowed him to set the pace. Then after he had to have me, he had to leave. Even though he told me in the past he didn’t open his heart and let anyone in, he was extremely attentive and wonderful to me. Best guy I’ve ever known- I completely fell for him. I really think he expected perfection in a relationship with zero bumps. A bump signals an exit. I didn’t see signs of his DA tendencies until five months in. Guarding the heart is key. If I had done that, I never would’ve signed up for a committed relationship that early on in the game when I had hesitations. You just don’t know someone yet. Better to take things slowly and protect yourself. I dunno, I think this is one of those million dollar questions. Who knows how fast you should go. I don’t know exactly either but slower than before!! |
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Post by 8675309 on Nov 12, 2018 1:41:28 GMT
We All have an anxious side, doesnt mean you're AP, hes just triggered your anxious side. If you did not have protest behaviors you're more secure than you think.
Im a secure attached, I tested heavy secure, some DA and 2% anxious and my DA/FA guy totally triggered me but because Im secure I didn't protest.
If I tested based on only him, I would of been totally AP. I based the test on my actual relationships over the years. Ive only been with secures. Ive never experienced this anxiousness until him, its not who I am, its just a part of me that was triggered, a part we all have.
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Post by epicgum on Nov 12, 2018 1:54:28 GMT
I dunno, I think this is one of those million dollar questions. Who knows how fast you should go. I don’t know exactly either but slower than before!! Haha for sure....for me...maybe faster than before? Or just more intelligently??  |
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Post by sissyk on Nov 12, 2018 14:30:26 GMT
Haha. Totally hear this!!! As I mentioned we are both horse people. And every horse story is a variation of National Velvet. Girl finds down-on-luck horse. Through patience and carrots, gradually earns shy horse's trust. Horse is a diamond in the rough! They win the big race! The crowd roars! At the same time, I am a believer in the growth mindset in most arenas. People can get better at things and change. Of course this would be if HE wants to and I totally hear that is not up to me and signs are not hopeful. But he has told me he suffers from social anxiety in general and has found it hard to approach women in the past and his narrative is that he is regretful he never married had kids etc. But watch the action not the talk I know! Not just girls with the "down on his luck" horse story. Guys do it too. Crazy how utterly insane it sounds and how thoroughly I believed it as though it was the most normal thing in the world. "I can change you! I can make you happy! I can release the greatness within you! Wheeeeeeeee!" And indeed it is the plotline of many a rom.com and My Fair Lady to Pretty Woman. Our culture feeds us lots of stories of unlikely love triumphing against hopeless odds for a happily ever after.....So it is easy to want to pick up the story line. Bring it on! I can do this!! I love a challenge! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 15:19:22 GMT
Not just girls with the "down on his luck" horse story. Guys do it too. Crazy how utterly insane it sounds and how thoroughly I believed it as though it was the most normal thing in the world. "I can change you! I can make you happy! I can release the greatness within you! Wheeeeeeeee!" And indeed it is the plotline of many a rom.com and My Fair Lady to Pretty Woman. Our culture feeds us lots of stories of unlikely love triumphing against hopeless odds for a happily ever after.....So it is easy to want to pick up the story line. Bring it on! I can do this!! I love a challenge! in real life, this kind of fixing and "helping" (with an agenda, clearly) can feel very disrespectful, controlling, and oppressive to the recipient. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2018 17:57:00 GMT
my opinion, is that if you offer help to another adult it ought ht to be candid and nothing covert. and definitely let him know of you see him as a little boy in an adult body if that's the case. it's important for him to know how he is perceived by his partner in such a situation.
so in this instance, if you were comfortable revealing your impressions and perspective of him directly to him, as written on this thread, then that's a start.
and then, i believe you would need to be willing to reveal to him that you think you might have good ideas (or will be looking for some) as to how he could improve or evolve himself and what your objectives for him are. i think you should plainly tell him where you think he may be deficient or in need of remodeling or assistance, and let him absorb all that.
next, you could ask for explicit permission to help him in the ways that you are thinking you might be able to.
That's the key part. Consent from the party who is a target of the rescue mission. we are talking about adults, after all.
if you were able to gain his full endorsement for the project, then i think it would be a fair and fully agreed upon venture, and you two could be assured that you are working toward the same goals with a mutual agenda and potential outcome. then there could be accountability, cooperation, etc etc, characteristic of an adult mutually respectful relationship.
i've not seen any kind of help program in the AP/avoidant dynamic that remotely resembles this. in the case of a broken arm, such mutual frankness and agreement would be normal and expected. in the case of rescuing partners, so much is undertaken without agreement of the other party.
this is wrong, to do this with another adult , in my opinion.
just my take.
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