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Post by sissyk on Nov 14, 2018 19:45:25 GMT
The other posters here are more knowledgeable than me and you should probably listen to them, but lets all keep in mind...we all have no idea who this guy is. Is he DA? Is he FA? Is he just weird and kinda lonely? We all change during relationships, going from strangers to loosely connected to sometimes strongly connected, to sometimes deep intimacy and lifetime commitments. We don't know what he is capable of and neither do you. It is also a matter of where he (and you) are on the spectrum. Some of us have really deep dark wounds that we have to work through, some of us have smaller wounds. We have no idea where he is on the spectrum he is. You can't, and shouldn't, try to change anyone and make them something that they aren't. But on the other hand, theres nothing wrong...once you've reached the appropriate place of intimacy of sharing knowledge and inquiring together into the voids of your minds. Don't start with him, start with understanding yourself. And of course...since you asked about it, I am totally projecting on you my own wish that I'd become aware of this stuff earlier, so...take my words with a grain of salt.  Rereading this thread for therapy! Question: And, to preempt, I ask this just because I want to understand, not because I am trying to engineer world domination. COULD he be an FA? Do people have strains of both? I ask because he says his former LTR partner called him "clingy"; he has blanched to the gills but bounced back when we have discussed "relationship" issues; he has a litany of self-criticisms that he shares freely with me about his looks, his work, his habits; he has lamented his social anxiety and lack of friends to me. This added to his glacial texting, hermit habits, refusal to call this a relationship, vocalized concerns about his failings in past relationships etc. I'm making him sound like a catch!  But truly he has a wonderful sense of humor, is smart and thoughtful, seems to have a good emotional intelligence under there, and is a good person in most ways and is very present when we hang out together. I know it is hard to tell long distance. Is the care and feeding the same as a DA? (Space, acceptance, do my own thing, be clear about what I want/need etc.) |
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Post by leavethelighton on Nov 15, 2018 2:40:20 GMT
Some research studies break it up into more than 4 types. I think one I read had something like 16 (subtypes with the types). So part of the challenge here is trying to fit people into a model that just isn't as complex as reality. Perhaps we have a predominant "attachment style" but can really move about the spectrum depending upon the person we're relating with, and then of course people really can change over the course of their life. Also I think that sometimes AP can look like DA in some ways because emotional pain or unfulfilled need/desire (etc.) can cause people to create distance and act distant but their mindset could still be AP.
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Post by leavethelighton on Nov 15, 2018 2:52:33 GMT
Oh and in regards to his former LTR-- people could totally be one style in regards to one person, and another in regards to another person. Like if I read a list of common thoughts of someone who is DA or AP, I can relate to almost 100% of the DA list in regards to one person, and almost 100% of the AP list in regards to another. Am I actually FA? I have no idea, but in any case, I think how this man was in a past LTR doesn't necessarily mean he will have the same predominant attachment style with you.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2018 3:17:12 GMT
The other posters here are more knowledgeable than me and you should probably listen to them, but lets all keep in mind...we all have no idea who this guy is. Is he DA? Is he FA? Is he just weird and kinda lonely? We all change during relationships, going from strangers to loosely connected to sometimes strongly connected, to sometimes deep intimacy and lifetime commitments. We don't know what he is capable of and neither do you. It is also a matter of where he (and you) are on the spectrum. Some of us have really deep dark wounds that we have to work through, some of us have smaller wounds. We have no idea where he is on the spectrum he is. You can't, and shouldn't, try to change anyone and make them something that they aren't. But on the other hand, theres nothing wrong...once you've reached the appropriate place of intimacy of sharing knowledge and inquiring together into the voids of your minds. Don't start with him, start with understanding yourself. And of course...since you asked about it, I am totally projecting on you my own wish that I'd become aware of this stuff earlier, so...take my words with a grain of salt. Rereading this thread for therapy! Question: And, to preempt, I ask this just because I want to understand, not because I am trying to engineer world domination. COULD he be an FA? Do people have strains of both? I ask because he says his former LTR partner called him "clingy"; he has blanched to the gills but bounced back when we have discussed "relationship" issues; he has a litany of self-criticisms that he shares freely with me about his looks, his work, his habits; he has lamented his social anxiety and lack of friends to me. This added to his glacial texting, hermit habits, refusal to call this a relationship, vocalized concerns about his failings in past relationships etc. I'm making him sound like a catch! But truly he has a wonderful sense of humor, is smart and thoughtful, seems to have a good emotional intelligence under there, and is a good person in most ways and is very present when we hang out together. I know it is hard to tell long distance. Is the care and feeding the same as a DA? (Space, acceptance, do my own thing, be clear about what I want/need etc.) this does sound more FA, DA are not particularly hard on themselves, is what stood out to me. i can't imagine a clingy DA. DA and FA are very different, and i say this because i can no more relate to FA on most points than i can to AP. the anxiety is the major differentiation, i am very low anxiety and cannot get hung up on all the self-flagellation i see in AP and FA. ]i always think of a FA as a flash in the pan and a DA as a slow burn. i think the needs are quite different. there is avoidance in both types but the ping pong up down thing is an FA trait as they bounce between clinging and fleeing. hopefully some FA can give better guidance. i think meeting a DA set of needs might trigger anxiety in FA, but i'm not sure. it's very difficult for me to understand. |
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Post by sissyk on Nov 15, 2018 23:56:37 GMT
That makes sense that there are subgroups and variations. Humans are so complicated and defy categorization. But it has been SO stress relieving for me to see his behaviors as part of a general pattern out there. He has been slow to text again as usual but I'm now like-eh-that is about him not me.
I have been reading a lot on these boards and am sad to see the ongoing pain these relationships can cause such caring people. It is sobering and makes me think this guy is best kept in the friend category--which may be all he wants/can handle anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 2:00:00 GMT
That makes sense that there are subgroups and variations. Humans are so complicated and defy categorization. But it has been SO stress relieving for me to see his behaviors as part of a general pattern out there. He has been slow to text again as usual but I'm now like-eh-that is about him not me. I have been reading a lot on these boards and am sad to see the ongoing pain these relationships can cause such caring people. It is sobering and makes me think this guy is best kept in the friend category--which may be all he wants/can handle anyway. good call!! he had explained he is limited because he truly is. not bad, not selfish or trying to fool anyone- just limited. he knows it. he hasn't offered what you want because he knows he can't give it. that's honest. that's GOOD. by continuing in a romantic sense, he could very well believe you are interested in what he is offering (limited). love doesn't have to be so risky. there is someone that can offer you what you're looking for, and actually provide it. choose him! |
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Post by tnr9 on Nov 16, 2018 4:28:33 GMT
That makes sense that there are subgroups and variations. Humans are so complicated and defy categorization. But it has been SO stress relieving for me to see his behaviors as part of a general pattern out there. He has been slow to text again as usual but I'm now like-eh-that is about him not me. I have been reading a lot on these boards and am sad to see the ongoing pain these relationships can cause such caring people. It is sobering and makes me think this guy is best kept in the friend category--which may be all he wants/can handle anyway. That is incredibly smart on your part....I think keeping things friend level is a great decision. |
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Post by sissyk on Nov 28, 2018 17:20:03 GMT
Update: Thank you all who encouraged me to try having a direct conversation. I had been afraid to do so as I didn't want to scare him away but decided nothing was possible if I couldn't express my own concerns and feelings.
Yesterday I phoned him though he prefers texts. I told him I was confused about how ambiguous our relationship was and asked him what he thought of us. He at first bristled and said I was being "aggressive" and I should "just relax." He said it was possibly "damaging" to bring up issues at a "delicate" stage of our seeing each other. He said it was "disturbing" to him that I had concerns.
I pressed on saying I was just looking for information, that I thought he was the cat's pajamas but wanted to know if I was misplacing my enthusiasm. I even bravely asked him to clarify why we were not having sex 7 months in here.
While he was defensive throughout, he did hang in there for an hour talk, we found moments to laugh, and he admitted he was very slow to build trust and thought that there was a lot to still get to know about each other and he didn't want to have to "report" to me.
We ended on a shared laugh. It remains to be seen if he gets spooked after letting it all marinate but I felt real relief in not bottling up my concerns and my enthusuasm.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2018 17:31:40 GMT
Well done, I hope it's given a bit more peace getting it of your chest and letting him know what's going on for you.
May I ask what he said about not having sex?
This is what I struggle with the most although his hugs and cuddles do give me a lot of comfort.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2018 17:32:53 GMT
My bf is more FA with some DA traits.
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Post by sissyk on Nov 28, 2018 21:22:04 GMT
Well done, I hope it's given a bit more peace getting it of your chest and letting him know what's going on for you. May I ask what he said about not having sex? This is what I struggle with the most although his hugs and cuddles do give me a lot of comfort. He was not totally direct about this yesterday--but I felt brave for asking! We talked about this early on--maybe a month into seeing each other. At the time, I had said I didn't want to have sex if he was sleeping with other people (we met on a dating site.) He recoiled at that comment--he said he didn't want to limit his opportunities so couldn't agree to being exclusive in that way. But he also told me yesterday--and he is honest about his insecurities and shortcomings--he hasn't slept with ANYONE in a decade. He also said during that early conversation that if we started to sleep together he thought I would start feeling like we were in a real relationship and I would have lots of expectations of him. I believe he also feels that if we take that step it would be emotionally messier if we stopped seeing each other. He is an enthusiastic kisser and hugger so it is like being in a High School (Junior High?) relationship So I think he is holding back for those above reasons--and a general wait and see where things go at a snail's pace. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2018 21:44:41 GMT
Thank you for replying.
He has been very up front I guess but I would personally really struggle as an ap in this type of relationship.
You sound lovely and I hope all will go well for you.
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Post by sissyk on Nov 28, 2018 21:56:51 GMT
Thank you! It has made me anxious! I would have thrown in towel already if I was younger and looking for a life partner for the biggies but I was married 20 years, have almost grown kids, my own house and career so this feels like a bonus round.
He is a fascinating guy and we can talk for hours and I feel like I am learning a ton in this process.
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Post by ocarina on Nov 28, 2018 21:59:44 GMT
Update: Thank you all who encouraged me to try having a direct conversation. I had been afraid to do so as I didn't want to scare him away but decided nothing was possible if I couldn't express my own concerns and feelings. Yesterday I phoned him though he prefers texts. I told him I was confused about how ambiguous our relationship was and asked him what he thought of us. He at first bristled and said I was being "aggressive" and I should "just relax." He said it was possibly "damaging" to bring up issues at a "delicate" stage of our seeing each other. He said it was "disturbing" to him that I had concerns. I pressed on saying I was just looking for information, that I thought he was the cat's pajamas but wanted to know if I was misplacing my enthusiasm. I even bravely asked him to clarify why we were not having sex 7 months in here. While he was defensive throughout, he did hang in there for an hour talk, we found moments to laugh, and he admitted he was very slow to build trust and thought that there was a lot to still get to know about each other and he didn't want to have to "report" to me. We ended on a shared laugh. It remains to be seen if he gets spooked after letting it all marinate but I felt real relief in not bottling up my concerns and my enthusuasm. Well done for being honest and true to yourself - even while taking a risk.
He sounds strangely similar to my ex partner - I also like to take things very very slow and have to admit was over the moon when I met a man who was the same - and I foolishly thought that going slowly would safeguard my heart and build a solid relationship. In fact I think it prolonged the agony because I was so patient, took it so slowly, he felt so comfortable that we didn't really come up against the real issues until much later. A long long courtship is reassuring for some people with attachment disorders because none of the uncomfortable stuff that comes up when a relationship gets real, is ever triggered.
I know from what you've written that you're very aware of his limitations - take care that you're not doing everything on his terms to save the relationship from crumbling. You have needs too and they are important - what do you need from a relationship? Can he/ is he giving you this right now?
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Post by sissyk on Nov 28, 2018 22:08:02 GMT
Update: Thank you all who encouraged me to try having a direct conversation. I had been afraid to do so as I didn't want to scare him away but decided nothing was possible if I couldn't express my own concerns and feelings. Yesterday I phoned him though he prefers texts. I told him I was confused about how ambiguous our relationship was and asked him what he thought of us. He at first bristled and said I was being "aggressive" and I should "just relax." He said it was possibly "damaging" to bring up issues at a "delicate" stage of our seeing each other. He said it was "disturbing" to him that I had concerns. I pressed on saying I was just looking for information, that I thought he was the cat's pajamas but wanted to know if I was misplacing my enthusiasm. I even bravely asked him to clarify why we were not having sex 7 months in here. While he was defensive throughout, he did hang in there for an hour talk, we found moments to laugh, and he admitted he was very slow to build trust and thought that there was a lot to still get to know about each other and he didn't want to have to "report" to me. We ended on a shared laugh. It remains to be seen if he gets spooked after letting it all marinate but I felt real relief in not bottling up my concerns and my enthusuasm. Well done for being honest and true to yourself - even while taking a risk.
He sounds strangely similar to my ex partner - I also like to take things very very slow and have to admit was over the moon when I met a man who was the same - and I foolishly thought that going slowly would safeguard my heart and build a solid relationship. In fact I think it prolonged the agony because I was so patient, took it so slowly, he felt so comfortable that we didn't really come up against the real issues until much later. A long long courtship is reassuring for some people with attachment disorders because none of the uncomfortable stuff that comes up when a relationship gets real, is ever triggered.
I know from what you've written that you're very aware of his limitations - take care that you're not doing everything on his terms to save the relationship from crumbling. You have needs too and they are important - what do you need from a relationship? Can he/ is he giving you this right now?
I take your point to heart. I was hesitant to have this conversation in deference to his DA/FA sensitivities. But then I decided I get to play by my rules too. My biggest need right now is to be able to be straight with him and get straight answers back. But I remain vigilant to the possibility this could stall out permanently or implode. |
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But truly he has a wonderful sense of humor, is smart and thoughtful, seems to have a good emotional intelligence under there, and is a good person in most ways and is very present when we hang out together. 
