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Post by tnr9 on May 17, 2019 3:20:15 GMT
tnr9 Thank you for sharing! I will definitely bring in up to my therapist for starters! I'm so sorry you grew up being told that. I feel you. You are worthy, friendly reminder! Thank you...and yes....i do believe I am worthy now....just as I am...working through all the stuff I am working on. It did not used to be that way...everything was so personal...everything was a reflection of me....I have been the center of my own universe..but in the most destructive way possible. I could only see that once I was able to get above it. It has been freeing to know that I am not responsible for others or even look at everything through the lens of how is what this person is doing related back to me. Autonomy is hard earned when enmeshment is what was sought. |
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mamut
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Post by mamut on May 17, 2019 9:55:12 GMT
@shiningstar thank you so much for your input! Im so glad you have figured most of it out and you're setting boundaries!!
What you're suggesting and doing, sounds good for all types. Basically what a normal devolvement in a relationship should look like. Getting to know someone, see if you not only have things in common but can actually communicate. Three months seems too long for me with no sex, but I would be willing to try; that's exactly what I need to do now, break old habits.
I can't help though, but notice how similar it seems to what most avoidants I'm reading about in this forum are doing. Most keep asking for friendship and can't really let go. Is this their way of taking things slow? It just always goes wrong because the other is already invested and feels rejected? Not to say that they won't leave again and they somehow have the right answer, but I'm just wondering.
Of course I'm looking to find some insight on my ex. I did slip last night and got into some obsessing behaviors that seem to continue today. This time I am observing them too though. When I fight them, it's so hard for me, it feels so bad. When I cave into them, they actually sooth me. This comes to no surprise to outsiders, but for me, well I never noticed and it's a good thing that I finally have.
On the other hand, when I was in the relationship, all the nitpicking and analyzing that now soothes me, turns me against my ex (and every ex). It's like I need to find something wrong, I need to make sure he's true by going down a VERY negative path. I struggled more on this ex because I was actually sort of aware that I was negative and I tried to shut that voice down completely. As a result, I let my smothering side to fully blow out in the beginning and that's probably what, well that's what most likely made him pull away and break it off the first time.
Second time round I figured I should give the "negative"voice a bit more credit, since it proved me right, he did leave. (Wow, I'm just seeing this now). So because of course I wasn't and still am not able to regulate it and give it a balanced stance, I was probably in a full negative spot. I thought I wasn't, but then again, my ex was extremely sensitive enough to pick it up, and as we talked about it earlier in this thread, as much as I try to hide it, it shows. I'm not blaming me for his actions,I'm not blaming me for the break up, I'm just observing my actions so I can work with them.
My hopeful side, which is sadly still here, wants to figure him out too. I think I will embrace feeling both hopeful and trying to cut him out of my life for now as I don't think I'm activated (if I'm using this term correctly), I am still in no mood of breaking no contact and although I'm hoping he will, I really don't want him to. It sounds crazy to keep both feelings at the same time, but that's how it constantly feels like in my mind in general during a relationship or after a break up. Keeping all the negative and positive outcomes near me so I can choose which road to follow if something goes south. Notice I didn't say if something turns out great. Ugh.
So basically what I'm saying is, today, I'm observing. Keeping both in mind, but observing. Another characteristic of me and something I've seen in other APs too is the black and white mode. It's all or nothing. It's perfect or horrible. No in between. So I'm gonna sit in the in between for a bit and observe.
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mamut
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Post by mamut on May 17, 2019 9:58:19 GMT
Thank you...and yes....i do believe I am worthy now....just as I am...working through all the stuff I am working on. It did not used to be that way...everything was so personal...everything was a reflection of me....I have been the center of my own universe..but in the most destructive way possible. I could only see that once I was able to get above it. It has been freeing to know that I am not responsible for others or even look at everything through the lens of how is what this person is doing related back to me. Autonomy is hard earned when enmeshment is what was sought. I can so much relate to this. Being the center of our own universe. I want to get to that point too, to be able to not connect EVERY FREAKING NOTION of others to me. It's so funny, with that type of thinking, one would think I had high self esteem or something but it's quite the opposite. |
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mamut
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Post by mamut on May 17, 2019 10:31:54 GMT
Questions.
Why am not wanting to text him? This has happened in a previous break up too. I have never slipped during NC. In both, I'm. the dumpee. As a dumper, I move on pretty quickly, but I always thought it was because it takes me months to decide to break up and usually it's when I'm fed up. That's probably it, but why am I so good at NC as a dumper? I've seen many APs cave in and contact before they are ready. Could this be avoidant?
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Post by tnr9 on May 17, 2019 10:40:30 GMT
Thank you...and yes....i do believe I am worthy now....just as I am...working through all the stuff I am working on. It did not used to be that way...everything was so personal...everything was a reflection of me....I have been the center of my own universe..but in the most destructive way possible. I could only see that once I was able to get above it. It has been freeing to know that I am not responsible for others or even look at everything through the lens of how is what this person is doing related back to me. Autonomy is hard earned when enmeshment is what was sought. I can so much relate to this. Being the center of our own universe. I want to get to that point too, to be able to not connect EVERY FREAKING NOTION of others to me. It's so funny, with that type of thinking, one would think I had high self esteem or something but it's quite the opposite. I think looking waaaaay back....at how it started...it was a survival mechanism and it was based out of fear, not confidence. I was trying desperately to figure out what would make my parents happy, what would stop the feeling of frustration and disappointment from my mom and dad...I wanted to connect so desperately and being me was not ok....thus, I did not develop any boundaries and instead spent my childhood in a perpetual state of feeling over responsible to my parents. I saw it as my job not to make them mad at me/disappointed in me...huge task...never succeeded....but what developed was this overactive alarm system and all of a sudden things that had nothing to do with me became about me. It was a coping mechanism gone haywire. I developed magical thinking where I started to fear my thoughts and that they would come true...I started to read meaning into the behavior and reactions of others. I still do it as an automatic first reaction. Social media sucks..there is no context around a like...no definition....and for someone who struggles with autonomy....it just feeds into the enmeshment. One thing that I think is really important is to not buy into it being “selfish”...it looks selfish to a mature adult...but it did not form there and I think part of moving out of that perspective is revisiting those memories as an adult and adding compassionate context that shows that little girl that it was not her responsibility to make her parents happy. Walk through each memory building on an autonomy that shows that she is ok even with scary, fearful feelings and a desire to make things ok for others. Creating boundaries is such an important step....understanding where I end, where my responsibility ends...that is a continual work in progress. I wish you well. |
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mamut
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Post by mamut on May 17, 2019 12:05:48 GMT
tnr9 thanks! I completely agree with it coming out of fear. I too was never accepted from my mother, I was mostly accepted by my father, but I wouldn't know completely, as once we started to get to know each other he passed away. Maybe that's another reason why I keep getting hooked on unavailability partners. Boundaries are the best! Have been practicing them the past year and I have made progress. Not only by keeping away people I don't mush with, but also not really caring. And for someone who cares too much about everything, even when it is from my point of view and how it affects me, not caring and letting go, is liberating! Now if only I can start setting them better when it comes to romantic partners 😂 I am proud though that I set them with NC and doing a good job at maintaining them. Wish you all the best!
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Post by mamut on May 17, 2019 13:21:34 GMT
Honestly this is just me trying to figure out what's going on in my head and why. I just got triggered again by FB through a common friend. He commented on something of said common friend about something we usually did together.
I can't deconstruct my thoughts of it being about me, when it of course has absolutely nothing to do with me. I saw it as a sign that he's trying to reach out but still respecting my wish of NC. I have already made a list of why I thinks it's about me just to try and deconstruct it, but I can't come up with anything else than "the world doesn't revolve around you".
Is this my inner child looking for signs of interest from my caregivers? Checking to see if they will "come back"?
I feel stupid for thinking things like this, and I'm a bit vulnerable for posting, but I do feel safe here and I would love some insight of how to stop this type of thinking.
This is not normal right? I mean, do secure people think like this after a fresh break up? Kind of a rhetorical question, but just need to be sure. I don't think it's normal and it's the type of thinking I want to get rid of.
Edit: in the past I just tried to stop the thought, but apparently that was just a quick fix. I need them to be gone for good, so i thought this might be hard, yet more constructive in the long run? Thoughts?
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Post by tnr9 on May 17, 2019 14:24:49 GMT
Honestly this is just me trying to figure out what's going on in my head and why. I just got triggered again by FB through a common friend. He commented on something of said common friend about something we usually did together. I can't deconstruct my thoughts of it being about me, when it of course has absolutely nothing to do with me. I saw it as a sign that he's trying to reach out but still respecting my wish of NC. I have already made a list of why I thinks it's about me just to try and deconstruct it, but I can't come up with anything else than "the world doesn't revolve around you". Is this my inner child looking for signs of interest from my caregivers? Checking to see if they will "come back"? I feel stupid for thinking things like this, and I'm a bit vulnerable for posting, but I do feel safe here and I would love some insight of how to stop this type of thinking. This is not normal right? I mean, do secure people think like this after a fresh break up? Kind of a rhetorical question, but just need to be sure. I don't think it's normal and it's the type of thinking I want to get rid of. Edit: in the past I just tried to stop the thought, but apparently that was just a quick fix. I need them to be gone for good, so i thought this might be hard, yet more constructive in the long run? Thoughts? So.....what works a bit better for me is not not invalidate the thought...rather....play a game called...what other reasons could there be...I don’t put limits and I like to come up with silly ones like...he lost his phone while jumping on a trampoline....I don’t know your particular situation...but try it....see what other options there are to explain the situation. It provides options....and a bit of breathing space. BTW....stop the negative self talk....it will feel like it mirrors what you experienced as a child....change the dialogue to compassion. |
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Post by tnr9 on May 17, 2019 14:33:19 GMT
Another thing I like to gently remind myself is that my crystal ball into B’s behaviors and why he does things has been accurate...0% of the time. In my mind...B is the ultimate Casanova with girls chasing after him 24/7....I mean...based on my stories alone...that man would have no time for a job or rest.....oh......and he is perfect.....which explains why he has never been married. I honestly love how gracious my little girl is to a very flawed man.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 14:34:47 GMT
mamut, in response to the question about avoidant being friends with exes. I can only speak for myself, my ex is a fellow DA and we have had a relationship in the years range (not easy to count in weeks ). Through that time we grew a lot together and developed a strong emotional bond. We have chosen to embrace our friendship because it is mutually rewarding and satisfactory. I don't know at what point I may begin dating but at this time have no desire because of other priorities and processes in my life. I don't have room or inclination to begin again. However, my friendship with my ex is emotionally supportive, and boundaried without progression expectations. It is complete as it is. I do not think it would be possible for me to maintain this with an AP who likely wound not be able to shift gears to friendship and prioritizes romantic connection and progression. It would be a whole different vibe. The simple boundaries of it would likely trigger an AP into insecurity and the chase, I would guess. I don't believe an AP would be content with what my ex and I enjoy together. The reason for the friendship is connection and camaraderie through life's trials, not romantic commitment and development.
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Post by tnr9 on May 17, 2019 14:37:18 GMT
mamut , in response to the question about avoidant veing friends with exes. I can only speak for myself, my ex is a fellow DA and we have had a relationship in the years range (not easy to count in weeks ). Through that time we grew a lot together and developed a strong emotional bond. We have chosen to embrace our friendship because it is mutually rewarding and satisfactory. I don't know at what point I may begin dating but at this time have no desire because of other priorities and processes in my life. I don't have room or inclination to begin again. However, my friendship with my ex is emotionally supportive, and boundaried with expectations. I do not think it would be possible for me to maintain this with an AP who likely wound not be able to shift gears to friendship. It would be a whole different vibe. I don't believe an AP would be content with what my ex and I enjoy together. The reason for the friendship is connection and camaraderie through life's trials, not romantic commitment and development. Beautifully written...glad you are able to share a bond that is mutually caring. |
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mamut
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Post by mamut on May 17, 2019 14:51:25 GMT
So.....what works a bit better for me is not not invalidate the thought...rather....play a game called...what other reasons could there be...I don’t put limits and I like to come up with silly ones like...he lost his phone while jumping on a trampoline....I don’t know your particular situation...but try it....see what other options there are to explain the situation. It provides options....and a bit of breathing space. BTW....stop the negative self talk....it will feel like it mirrors what you experienced as a child....change the dialogue to compassion. True, I need to stop the negative self talks. Very good point about childhood. Thanks! I did try to find other options, the best I came up with was "he was just commenting on his friend's status" and frankly, that's true. Although I see how the tactic would work, I just thought that maybe that'll just keep me obsessing. Another tactic I used in the past, was to just say "maybe he did comment to get your attention, maybe he didn't". Sitting in the unknown is scary, but I've noticed it has helped me in the past. I probably didn't remember it and apply it because, I was triggered and went to my default. Tough day today. Missing him a lot, trying to repeat that I would not want to get back in that relationship. I think some us come here to find hope once we realise that our ex's behavior has a valid reason and it can be treated(as ours), but some don't realize is the other one has to want to be treated. And what I need to realize even more is that my ex, wasn't really into me. That's what I'm coming to understand. And accepting that hurts, but I know that once I accept it, everything will be easier. I still won't break contact, as much as I want to talk to him, but I know that right now talking to him will just restart my healing process, especially if I talk to him about reconciliation, because that's the force that's making me want to contact him. Magical thinking and projecting that he wants us back together and he's having a rough time. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. Another thing I don't have control over and I just need to sit with it. |
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mamut
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Post by mamut on May 17, 2019 14:52:47 GMT
Oh just saw your other responses, will get back to you
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Post by mamut on May 17, 2019 15:07:08 GMT
mamut, in response to the question about avoidant being friends with exes. I can only speak for myself, my ex is a fellow DA and we have had a relationship in the years range (not easy to count in weeks ). Through that time we grew a lot together and developed a strong emotional bond. We have chosen to embrace our friendship because it is mutually rewarding and satisfactory. I don't know at what point I may begin dating but at this time have no desire because of other priorities and processes in my life. I don't have room or inclination to begin again. However, my friendship with my ex is emotionally supportive, and boundaried without progression expectations. It is complete as it is. I do not think it would be possible for me to maintain this with an AP who likely wound not be able to shift gears to friendship and prioritizes romantic connection and progression. It would be a whole different vibe. The simple boundaries of it would likely trigger an AP into insecurity and the chase, I would guess. I don't believe an AP would be content with what my ex and I enjoy together. The reason for the friendship is connection and camaraderie through life's trials, not romantic commitment and development. I understand completely and am happy for both of you! When my ex offered friendship, I knew I wasn't going to be able to be his friend and that's why I asked him for a NC period(to get the romantic part out of me and try for a friendship, because for us too it was mutual rewarding) I indeed could never enjoy a friendship when I still have feelings this strong. I'm afraid that even if we do start a "clean" friendship, I will start developing feelings for him all over again. I would probably not act on them as long as he's still in the true friendship mode, I just don't know if he would be. My question is, and now that you gave me your story I can ask it differently, you say you are not interested in dating and you enjoy your friendships with your ex. Does this mean you do have romantic feelings for each other and are just not acting on them and enjoying what you already have until you are ready for dating again? |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 15:37:30 GMT
mamut, in response to the question about avoidant being friends with exes. I can only speak for myself, my ex is a fellow DA and we have had a relationship in the years range (not easy to count in weeks ). Through that time we grew a lot together and developed a strong emotional bond. We have chosen to embrace our friendship because it is mutually rewarding and satisfactory. I don't know at what point I may begin dating but at this time have no desire because of other priorities and processes in my life. I don't have room or inclination to begin again. However, my friendship with my ex is emotionally supportive, and boundaried without progression expectations. It is complete as it is. I do not think it would be possible for me to maintain this with an AP who likely wound not be able to shift gears to friendship and prioritizes romantic connection and progression. It would be a whole different vibe. The simple boundaries of it would likely trigger an AP into insecurity and the chase, I would guess. I don't believe an AP would be content with what my ex and I enjoy together. The reason for the friendship is connection and camaraderie through life's trials, not romantic commitment and development. I understand completely and am happy for both of you! When my ex offered friendship, I knew I wasn't going to be able to be his friend and that's why I asked him for a NC period(to get the romantic part out of me and try for a friendship, because for us too it was mutual rewarding) I indeed could never enjoy a friendship when I still have feelings this strong. I'm afraid that even if we do start a "clean" friendship, I will start developing feelings for him all over again. I would probably not act on them as long as he's still in the true friendship mode, I just don't know if he would be. My question is, and now that you gave me your story I can ask it differently, you say you are not interested in dating and you enjoy your friendships with your ex. Does this mean you do have romantic feelings for each other and are just not acting on them and enjoying what you already have until you are ready for dating again? Why do you ask? I have the distinct impression that you are prying into and analyzing my DA relationship as a way to gain some insight into your own experience with a DA? I can see that you are ruminating and obsessed at the moment and that isn't the place I'd like to engage with you when it comes to personal questions about myself and my relationships. Perhaps you think that by finding out if we DA have romantic feelings for each other post breakup you can decipher whether or not your DA ex has romantic feelings for you? Maybe this isn't what you are doing but I mentioned the tendency I have seen for AP to analyze and look for any signs to feed their hope and soothe their abandonment. On this end, it feels as if information O provide will be used for fuel for your AP processes, because I don't think that information about my personal feelings for my dear friend is needed for you to try to overcome your own dysfunction. I could be off base but I still don't feel comfortable with the line of questioning because of how it's mixed in with your concerns about your ex and the unresolved issues you have around your breakup. No harm no foul, I'm just going to decline to answer that. |
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