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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2019 1:10:54 GMT
Oh! I thought of another thing that creates a lot of drama for a lot of people- Not being able to admit an embarrassing mistake. If you love someone and are ready to be emotionally available, you'll have to be ready and willing to see and admit when you've gotten it wrong, and potentially caused pain for yourself or someone else.
Misunderstandings happen, can you admit it without pulverizing yourself or someone else? How about if you have a bad day, and aren't at your best- can you quickly repair any rift that may cause? How about if another person has a bad day- can you have tolerance, the same kind you've learned to have for yourself? Say you fall into an old behavior, do you love yourself and the other enough to just gently acknowledge it, forgive it in yourself, ask for forgiveness, fix it up and move on with a resolve to do your best going forward? Can a small mistake made by either be no big deal, instead of a deal breaker? Can you have patience and largeness of heart for ourself and the other, so that imperfection and silly faults and failures can be handled with grace and even humor?
How about when humor goes too far, do you know the limits and are you prepared to tread more softly if what's funny to you is painful to someone else?
All of this is something that I have learned about in my closest relationships. It's not so hard to admit mistakes to people that don't know your biggest vulnerabilities- it takes trust and courage to admit mistakes to those that know how to hurt you if they choose. Its likely, however, that the more humble you can be, the more careful they will be with your heart unless they are pathological or just really unhealthy but that's another thread! At least, that's what I have experienced as I've let down my guard.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2019 2:23:35 GMT
This is a good thread for me to keep myself in a good place too! Duh, I forgot to mention a huge source of drama- For the avoidant, deactivation strategies! For the anxious, activating and protest behaviors! As an avoidant, I have to remind myself of what deactivating strategies are strong in me, because they can happen unconsciously in me before I even realize it. Even with my now-friendship, because I'm closer to him than most people. This goes along with boundaries- having boundaries for my own behavior and being accountable to them. There are things I will not permit myself to do, if I am in a relationship. These are BEHAVIOR boundaries. There are things that sneak up on me that I try my hardest to be aware of do I can divert them- mostly ways of THINKING. My behavior boundaries for example, are: I won't flirt with others to create distance in my mind (I have never done this to induce jealousy, I've only done it to create a rift internally so I didn't feel too close to my partner.) It was not intentionally harmful, but I was shocked and sorry when I realized what I was doing. It wasn't harmless, even if he never knew  I won't say critical, angry things to my partner. I realize that I can have a tendency to interpret things negatively and not trust good intentions, and use that as a way to push away. Even if I am unsure and triggered and want to create a gap there are things I WILL NOT SAY. I won't accuse, I won't condemn, I won't criticize. I have found ways to mess up internally without inflicting that on a partner, and I have to work more on helping myself out of negative thinking when I'm triggered... but I won't be mean. I feel great about this! A thinking boundary that I have to work on is that I have an automatic, constant tendency to remind myself how being single is the best, it is my destiny, it is the safest, it is how I am meant to be. I'm not 100% convinced all of that isn't true but I do try to stay open. I do not have any idea what all that looks like for me, but at least I'm not 100% convinced that a life of solitude is the life for me. So, those are just examples of where I make some boundaries around my own behavior and thinking, knowing that if I can be mindful of myself I can be mindful of others too. Mindful = Wayyyy less drama. I imagine if an AP created and kept boundaries for themselves around snooping or stalking, preparing themselves for a healthy relationship, in honor of themselves and their partner, it would feel great to them to be in control of themselves that way. Even if their partner never knew about a peek, being accountable to yourself feels wonderful, it's a source of self respect and respect for others. |
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Post by happyidiot on May 21, 2019 5:53:36 GMT
This is a good thread for me to keep myself in a good place too! Duh, I forgot to mention a huge source of drama- For the avoidant, deactivation strategies! For the anxious, activating and protest behaviors! As an avoidant, I have to remind myself of what deactivating strategies are strong in me, because they can happen unconsciously in me before I even realize it. Even with my now-friendship, because I'm closer to him than most people. This goes along with boundaries- having boundaries for my own behavior and being accountable to them. There are things I will not permit myself to do, if I am in a relationship. These are BEHAVIOR boundaries. There are things that sneak up on me that I try my hardest to be aware of do I can divert them- mostly ways of THINKING. My behavior boundaries for example, are: I won't flirt with others to create distance in my mind (I have never done this to induce jealousy, I've only done it to create a rift internally so I didn't feel too close to my partner.) It was not intentionally harmful, but I was shocked and sorry when I realized what I was doing. It wasn't harmless, even if he never knew I won't say critical, angry things to my partner. I realize that I can have a tendency to interpret things negatively and not trust good intentions, and use that as a way to push away. Even if I am unsure and triggered and want to create a gap there are things I WILL NOT SAY. I won't accuse, I won't condemn, I won't criticize. I have found ways to mess up internally without inflicting that on a partner, and I have to work more on helping myself out of negative thinking when I'm triggered... but I won't be mean. I feel great about this! A thinking boundary that I have to work on is that I have an automatic, constant tendency to remind myself how being single is the best, it is my destiny, it is the safest, it is how I am meant to be. I'm not 100% convinced all of that isn't true but I do try to stay open. I do not have any idea what all that looks like for me, but at least I'm not 100% convinced that a life of solitude is the life for me. So, those are just examples of where I make some boundaries around my own behavior and thinking, knowing that if I can be mindful of myself I can be mindful of others too. Mindful = Wayyyy less drama. I imagine if an AP created and kept boundaries for themselves around snooping or stalking, preparing themselves for a healthy relationship, in honor of themselves and their partner, it would feel great to them to be in control of themselves that way. Even if their partner never knew about a peek, being accountable to yourself feels wonderful, it's a source of self respect and respect for others. I have these for myself too! Including all the ones you mentioned. I will actually regularly check myself to see if I am keeping a foot out the door while in a relationship and take action. Like permanently deleting (not just taking a break from or temporarily deactivating) dating apps and cutting off contact (deleting their number, deleting them on social media) with anyone who I feel could be a potential date that I might be subconsciously keeping around as a back-up plan or to talk to when I'm distancing. I'm talking about people like that dude who I barely know except that he asked me out once, or that guy who I briefly dated a few years ago, etc. Another distancing tactic I use is thinking about an ex who broke my heart and how no one else will compare to them, so to combat that I have been doing things like deleting the exes on social media, deleting their photos from my phone, and just being mindful any time they pop into my head to let them pop straight back out. I don't know if I'm doing a good job yet of convincing myself i wouldn't be better off single either, but how I've been dealing with it is by remembering that there are definitely times that I do not think that is the case, so it's probably just a deactivation when I'm suddenly thinking that I should be single for the rest of my life and that relationships are exhausting and upsetting and not worth the immense sacrifices. But I'm FA, so maybe I spend more time thinking I really do want a relationship than the average DA? |
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2019 6:04:06 GMT
Haha yes, delete those apps. Block the guys on the periphery. No fishing for attention to create distance! My avoidant girlfriend and I were comparing notes on that just last week!
I don't know, about how often typical DA think about relationships, and wanting one. All the DA I know, male and female, think about it quite a lot just don't actuakize it, try to make it happen in a real sense. It stays as an idea. I think the internal conflict is just strong enough, without anxiety. to keep it as a thought just beyond reach. Then we go do something else for a while. Then maybe we will date, hopefully get healthier along the way. Or maybe we will just get better at the hobby and dive deeper into that topic we are interested in, or work.
That seems to the typical scenario.
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Post by happyidiot on May 21, 2019 6:22:27 GMT
@sherry That makes a lot of sense and seems to fit with the DAs and DA-leaning FAs I know. The most extreme DA I know, who has never been in a relationship, seems to consistently feel totally ok about the idea of never having a relationship and just says he's "not entirely opposed" to considering a relationship someday if it somehow happened but he certainly never tries to make it happen and wishes people wouldn't act like he was missing something. He did go on one date once that I know of and was AGHAST that the woman told him that her goal was to get married to someone someday. More moderate DA-ish people I know might just not put effort into finding a relationship, but might still put effort into getting sex.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2019 6:40:22 GMT
@sherry That makes a lot of sense and seems to fit with the DAs and DA-leaning FAs I know. The most extreme DA I know, who has never been in a relationship, seems to consistently feel totally ok about the idea of never having a relationship and just says he's "not entirely opposed" to considering a relationship someday if it somehow happened but he certainly never tries to make it happen and wishes people wouldn't act like he was missing something. He did go on one date once that I know of and was AGHAST that the woman told him that her goal was to get married to someone someday. More moderate DA-ish people I know might just not put effort into finding a relationship, but might still put effort into getting sex. Yep! And, Most DA I know will look for monogamous sex actually. There is a want for an exclusive connection but it is far from the average ideal relationship. For many DA, that is the average ideal relationship. Companionship and sex. Long term even. Exclusive. But not saying "I love you." It was a major deal for me, and so awesome, to ask my ex if he minds and if he would think it awkward if I told him I love him. That was after the breakup! haha! Because I do love him, I love lots of people and tell them regularly. I just never got to the point of being able to say it to him. He didn't think it's weird and has no problem with it. But he never told me he loves me. He doesn't need to, and I totally get it but have no question he loved me then and now. It is cool to be able to sign off a call or message saying it though. Anyway. It's neat hearing your perspective too. My girlfriend and I cover a lot of the same stuff, she's newer at it all. Just a different culture, and particularly interesting and surprising between two avoidants with a certain level of trust. |
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2019 6:42:56 GMT
"not entirely opposed" to a relationship if it somehow happened someday 😂😂😂😂😂
Omg it's so real.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2019 7:22:29 GMT
This is a good thread for me to keep myself in a good place too! Duh, I forgot to mention a huge source of drama- For the avoidant, deactivation strategies! For the anxious, activating and protest behaviors! As an avoidant, I have to remind myself of what deactivating strategies are strong in me, because they can happen unconsciously in me before I even realize it. Even with my now-friendship, because I'm closer to him than most people. This goes along with boundaries- having boundaries for my own behavior and being accountable to them. There are things I will not permit myself to do, if I am in a relationship. These are BEHAVIOR boundaries. There are things that sneak up on me that I try my hardest to be aware of do I can divert them- mostly ways of THINKING. My behavior boundaries for example, are: I won't flirt with others to create distance in my mind (I have never done this to induce jealousy, I've only done it to create a rift internally so I didn't feel too close to my partner.) It was not intentionally harmful, but I was shocked and sorry when I realized what I was doing. It wasn't harmless, even if he never knew I won't say critical, angry things to my partner. I realize that I can have a tendency to interpret things negatively and not trust good intentions, and use that as a way to push away. Even if I am unsure and triggered and want to create a gap there are things I WILL NOT SAY. I won't accuse, I won't condemn, I won't criticize. I have found ways to mess up internally without inflicting that on a partner, and I have to work more on helping myself out of negative thinking when I'm triggered... but I won't be mean. I feel great about this! A thinking boundary that I have to work on is that I have an automatic, constant tendency to remind myself how being single is the best, it is my destiny, it is the safest, it is how I am meant to be. I'm not 100% convinced all of that isn't true but I do try to stay open. I do not have any idea what all that looks like for me, but at least I'm not 100% convinced that a life of solitude is the life for me. So, those are just examples of where I make some boundaries around my own behavior and thinking, knowing that if I can be mindful of myself I can be mindful of others too. Mindful = Wayyyy less drama. I imagine if an AP created and kept boundaries for themselves around snooping or stalking, preparing themselves for a healthy relationship, in honor of themselves and their partner, it would feel great to them to be in control of themselves that way. Even if their partner never knew about a peek, being accountable to yourself feels wonderful, it's a source of self respect and respect for others. This is excellent - i've done some of the DA deactivation before as well as experienced them firsthand from my ex (he was constantly telling me being single is better and is his destiny and he welcomes it). I think it is also an issue when one recognizes these strategies and justifies them on the account that it doesn't directly hurt the other party e.g., "I didn't flirt with XX in front of you, or I didn't cheat on you since I never did engage in a long convo or sex - I was just chatting with her, can't I have friends?" It drove me crazy because logically it sounds correct, but emotionally there's alot of discomfort that I cannot explain without sounding like a needy crazy person.. which I eventually became. Re AP. I was AP in my previous rship; prior to and with my current partner, I stated it explicitly that it is not my job to guard the security of the rship, only my own sense of security. if I at any point feel that I could or did not trust him, even if there was nothing overtly wrong (see what i described above), I WILL exit the rship. If he so chooses to introduce insecurity in whatever form repeatedly/consistently, I'm out. I will not snoop or negotiate or discuss to validate my suspicions/relationship. I think this is a very strong stance to take though, because it requires you to know intimately your own security levels, so that you are aware of what the source of insecurity is (partner or you or the rship dynamic) and lots of self discipline to do. |
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Post by mamut on May 21, 2019 7:38:32 GMT
@sherry hm, embarrassing mistakes. I'd say it's quite easy for me to admit them, but then you said to people who know my weaknesses and I'm like, eeeehmmmrrr. To friends, definitely, I actually scored extremely high secure with friendships. But to romantically partners? I'm not sure any one knew my weaknesses. Whenever I have opened up to a new friend about them, they are usually shocked, they say that I don't show. Yes, I'm a very open person, I can open up to relatively new friends (and I'm lucky enough to be having new and good ones at this age) but also, due to therapy, I'm owning my weaknesses more and more, so talking about them is a way to extinguish them and also a way to help others others too. I'd like to say that if a partner knew about weaknesses, I would be embarrassed at a mistake, but will definitely admit it. I've been guilted way too much in my life, so I think that helped 😂 If I'm having bad day, I usually acknowledge and announce it to people close to me to avoid them thinking anything more of it, BECAUSE, if a partner (I'm different with friends) is having a bad day, I usually think it's my fault, and I start microanalysing. I do try to think, lately, that it could just be a bad day, but I still have the thoughts. Yet, I am very, very understanding once I do realize it's just a bad day. I have been getting a lot better at forgiving my self if I fall into a bad habit, but as I said most partners don't know, but I think if they did, I would be acknowledging it, fixing it and asking for forgiveness. Small mistakes used to be indeed a deal breaker. Whenever one happened, I thought "this is the end", I or he ruined it, we're over. Never actually ended things, but still. With this last ex, I was surprised and didn't even realize it in the beginning, that I didn't feel doomed when a problem occurred. I was willing to work on it. Very proud! I am extremely patient, love humor and ise it too, and I'm not mean or I'll intentioned, even when I've been botteling thoughts up for a while. I think I used to be mean without realizing it in earlier relationships due to the botteling up fact. Now I know it's just me. I'm very aware how humor can harm someone, I'm so PC that I doubt I could hurt someone with my humor. Even if it happens, I'm very empathetic. I'm so glad this is helpful for you too! It's been like a therapy session for me, so much that Im gonna have to work on picking which topic to work on in my next session because there are so many! It's very interesting to see what you as an aware avoidant, is battling with. I don't think I've met an avoidant who's open to discussing these. They seem so opposite of my worries. I can only identify slightly with the "being single is the best", but I'm sure I don't get that to the level you do. Except for the "relationships are drama" maybe 😂 and those, I've gotten in the past years. I'm SO happy for you, you've achieved so much! It might never be perfect, but since you're open about it and the other is too, you both know the roots of all these and are not taking them personal. That's the best we can do as human beings! The way you talk about boundaries, makes me think that that's exactly what I did in most of my recent relationships. I did refrain myself from snooping, assuming etc to a point. I saw that in a negative light as you could probably tell from previous posts, maybe I'm just setting boundaries and that's a good thing. Next step would be open to my next partner about them. I was in a relationship when I first practiced mindfulness...WOW. It was a life savior. I kinda stopped doing it lately, but I think I can get back to it easier now. That's the point of the water tank exercise too right? Not only to declog our body, but to be here, in the present. happyidiot I'm so happy for you too!! Sounds like you're doing a great job as well!! I'm sure that every one of us, including your extreme DA friend, needs companionship. I am starting to understand how different avoidants define it, but even so, it does have elements of what a secure would want too. I actually think it comes closer to what a secure wants compared to what an AP wants. I hope your friend will find at least someone with the same views, maybe it'll trigger the need to dig deeper. I know you will find that companionship as you are already on a great road! |
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Post by mamut on May 21, 2019 7:45:41 GMT
@shiningstar I was about to disagree with you on leaving until you mentioned the "constant" part. It took me a while to not name the relationship doomed at the first trouble, but there's a huge difference between a minor problem and something that keeps happening even after you have a talk about it. I believe what you're doing is setting firm boundaries and I salute you!
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2019 14:22:26 GMT
@shiningstar I was about to disagree with you on leaving until you mentioned the "constant" part. It took me a while to not name the relationship doomed at the first trouble, but there's a huge difference between a minor problem and something that keeps happening even after you have a talk about it. I believe what you're doing is setting firm boundaries and I salute you! Pattern is key. Is it a pattern? If so- Problem! |
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2019 14:56:17 GMT
mamut thank you for your kind words, I am very happy about what I've been able to achieve in terms of allowing and fostering a relationship that brings me a lot of healing and growth. I've felt the walls crumble down around me , maybe they aren't completely destroyed but I can get over them and others can too. The breaking down process was painful. It's happened in little chips and big tremors. I feel I belong. For the most part! I have my days. But even being able to be raw with my friends about my bad days is so good. Some of the recent convos here that I've been in have triggered that horrible feeling in the pit of my throat and stomach about having to ever survive the loss of my friend. But! I take that as a part of the package and turn my mind away from it and don't let my life be driven by it any more. I've made progress over the years in small ways like being able to have pets (who have a shorter life span so loss is absolutely certain ) and losing loved ones to old age and being able to love them to the last without flinching. Maybe that sounds awful like everyone should just know that they can do it, but I didn't know how that would be until I experienced it and felt really present and open to the experience right through it all. So anyway, yes it's a whole new way of living and I feel like a part of the bigger whole in a way that eluded me for the majority of my life. It didn't just happen though I pursued it out of a deep desire that maybe was just a miracle. I think it was.
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Post by mamut on May 21, 2019 19:28:09 GMT
@sherry you story always gives me hope!
You have worked very hard and been through so many emotions and stuck to it. 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Just an update as to my healing from the break-up. I feel a lot better. I managed to not check anything the whole day, the urges were almost non existent too. I think I'm real close to letting go, at least the romantic part of it. And I'm not that sad about it either.
I did have a crying moment today, but not because I was activated, it was pure grief of what could've been, and it was cathartic.
I still care about him and I'm proud of that, as I didn't want to hate him. I was very angry in the beginning and even then it didn't add up. I know he didn't do this on purpose. It's funny how your mind clears up after some days. I feel balanced.
I am still not ready to talk to him or see him, and I am glad he hasn't reached out. I remember him wanting to keep things as they were just not intimate and I can't help but feel his struggle after reading all of these similar stories. I know he's not struggling about me per say, and that he probably has been struggling like this for years and will continue if he doesn't do anything about it.
I'm glad I walked away that day. Not only because I removed myself from something that wasn't right for me, but I proved to myself, unknowingly at the time, that I have been making progress with my attachment. I didn't know the definition at that point, but I was already working on my issues for quite some time now.
In the past, I wouldn't have walked away, I'd follow his needs and disregard mine completely. We would "break up" again at some point, and right now I'd feel super sad and guilty that I couldn't help, and I'd be trying to find ways to help him, disregarding my needs once more. So I'm proud. I feel sad that I can't help him, but not guilty and that's how I should feel.
I'm still vulnerable and that's why I can't contact him yet, but I'm sure I will reach the point, sooner rather than later, where I'll be completely ok with seeing him as a friend. No rush though. I have no idea where he's at, if he is indeed struggling or he just pushed his issues away and moved on, and right now I'm ok with that. I am leaning towards him struggling and not because I have my hopes up (which I don't really), but because the man I got to know bit, would. Time will tell.
I hope that we do manage to become friends again, and I also hope I won't be on here in a couple of months saying that we reconciled. So yeah, I'm still vulnerable, but definitely on the right track!
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Post by blacksnow2 on May 27, 2019 1:05:20 GMT
Jeb Kinnison 😂 he gets some things right and a lot wrong when it comes to the inside workings, but he's based his opinions on the research from others that don't have the inside experience of avoidant attachment also. Natalie Lue , God bless her, she has so much wisdom but also resorts to name calling and vilifying avoidants. I have enjoyed her site tremendously and benefitted from it but she has huge blond spots and takes kind of a "them vs US" stance. In my opinion, writers like these show their own flawed humanity in anti-avoidant perspectives but you have to be open to what's helpful and toss the rest. There are countless others who write blogs but too many to name. Very late in replying to this but I want to add my two cents now that I can make sense of my thoughts. I agree with you about Natalie. I used to regularly visit Baggage Reclaim while I was "triggered AP" and before I was aware of my avoidant tendencies as an FA. I feel like she only really scratches the surface, it's like the "intro to the intro of attachment theory" because really, there's no attachment theory in there, it's more about surface behaviors. That's what she addresses when it comes to avoidants, and that's cool, but doesn't much get to the root of things. It's a good start. And I like that she advises people/women to work on themselves and look into their past and their relationship with their parents. I don't think her vilifying avoidants is completely unfounded. With the stories you read in the comments, even when you consider the fact that the "APs" played their role and are partly responsible for creating such a dynamic, many of the avoidants in question can easily be considered... jerk-y? But what's more, a lot of them also don't seem necessarily 'avoidant' to me. In other words, secure attachment looks different for everyone, some people really do need more time apart than others (e.g. me, despite not being secure just yet, the closer I get the more clear it is), but they're just not aware of these tendencies in themselves and they get confused amidst the newness of the relationship, their own needs, and the other person's expectations. I guess you could call that avoidant, but I wouldn't do so for every case out there. Either way, it's not easy to navigate. Less so for people who don't have a lot of experience dating or who don't really date in general. The most important thing is awareness. When both people have this trait, things can be worked through. If only one does, that's problematic. If neither does, then the classic AP/DA thing will continue indefinitely. Another thing, although Natalie does encourage readers to focus on their own issues of unavailability, I just don't think it's enough, knowing what I know now. So for example, something I've noticed in myself when I'm triggered anxious is that it can just be SO TRICKY to catch myself in that moment before getting carried away with all the stories and interpretations running through my head. When that whole cloud of emotions finally passes, I actually realize that I don't really want what I think I want in my anxious moments. And I recognize how unhealthy and backwards it is. Something similar happens when I'm triggered avoidant (and sometimes this happens right after I'm triggered anxious), except the lies are about the dismissive way I perceive the situation, how I feel like everything is fake, and "I don't want any of this". Point being, I think there may be a lot of people out there reading Natalie Lue and other resources, thinking they want a certain amount of intimacy kind of early in the realtionship, but they really wouldn't prefer it. And I think it's a huge issue when you read advice like "forget about that avoidant arsehole! Get a man who wants to be with you 100% meaning he should be spending a lot of time with you, etc. etc." when the person having this problem could really benefit from the space themselves and in fact would operate best if they got it too. Back to the drawing board. |
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2019 15:12:55 GMT
Jeb Kinnison 😂 he gets some things right and a lot wrong when it comes to the inside workings, but he's based his opinions on the research from others that don't have the inside experience of avoidant attachment also. Natalie Lue , God bless her, she has so much wisdom but also resorts to name calling and vilifying avoidants. I have enjoyed her site tremendously and benefitted from it but she has huge blond spots and takes kind of a "them vs US" stance. In my opinion, writers like these show their own flawed humanity in anti-avoidant perspectives but you have to be open to what's helpful and toss the rest. There are countless others who write blogs but too many to name. Very late in replying to this but I want to add my two cents now that I can make sense of my thoughts. I agree with you about Natalie. I used to regularly visit Baggage Reclaim while I was "triggered AP" and before I was aware of my avoidant tendencies as an FA. I feel like she only really scratches the surface, it's like the "intro to the intro of attachment theory" because really, there's no attachment theory in there, it's more about surface behaviors. That's what she addresses when it comes to avoidants, and that's cool, but doesn't much get to the root of things. It's a good start. And I like that she advises people/women to work on themselves and look into their past and their relationship with their parents. I don't think her vilifying avoidants is completely unfounded. With the stories you read in the comments, even when you consider the fact that the "APs" played their role and are partly responsible for creating such a dynamic, many of the avoidants in question can easily be considered... jerk-y? But what's more, a lot of them also don't seem necessarily 'avoidant' to me. In other words, secure attachment looks different for everyone, some people really do need more time apart than others (e.g. me, despite not being secure just yet, the closer I get the more clear it is), but they're just not aware of these tendencies in themselves and they get confused amidst the newness of the relationship, their own needs, and the other person's expectations. I guess you could call that avoidant, but I wouldn't do so for every case out there. Either way, it's not easy to navigate. Less so for people who don't have a lot of experience dating or who don't really date in general. The most important thing is awareness. When both people have this trait, things can be worked through. If only one does, that's problematic. If neither does, then the classic AP/DA thing will continue indefinitely. Another thing, although Natalie does encourage readers to focus on their own issues of unavailability, I just don't think it's enough, knowing what I know now. So for example, something I've noticed in myself when I'm triggered anxious is that it can just be SO TRICKY to catch myself in that moment before getting carried away with all the stories and interpretations running through my head. When that whole cloud of emotions finally passes, I actually realize that I don't really want what I think I want in my anxious moments. And I recognize how unhealthy and backwards it is. Something similar happens when I'm triggered avoidant (and sometimes this happens right after I'm triggered anxious), except the lies are about the dismissive way I perceive the situation, how I feel like everything is fake, and "I don't want any of this". Point being, I think there may be a lot of people out there reading Natalie Lue and other resources, thinking they want a certain amount of intimacy kind of early in the realtionship, but they really wouldn't prefer it. And I think it's a huge issue when you read advice like "forget about that avoidant arsehole! Get a man who wants to be with you 100% meaning he should be spending a lot of time with you, etc. etc." when the person having this problem could really benefit from the space themselves and in fact would operate best if they got it too. Back to the drawing board. As to the comments on her website describing avoidants behavior. As we know, breakups are mess and lilyg said it very well in her reply to @thatright 's post about avoidants in the support section. There are two sides to every story and I think it's impossible to be objective if you only have one. You may empathize wit a person's person in such a case, but often two people have very different perceptions of what has happened in a breakup. Anyway, there is useful and not so useful information on her site. If a person truly intends to improve their own issues there are many resources available and placing blame will become less important the healthier and more insightful they become. No need to drink all the kool-aid, the truth is inside and can be found by those willing to look and who are able to gain compassionate assistance with that. |
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