Break up...again.

@sherry This is very interesting. I think one difference can be that my mother is DEFINITELY an AP, so even if she got educated on how to raise a kid properly and did her best, I think it's bound to rub off on the child, maybe?
Another thing is, that my mother (not my father) actually never taught me to be independent, although it was her intention. She needed me. She defines her life around her children, it's the most important thing in life for her, yet at the same time, if she was born in my time, I'm sure she would've been a career woman as she loves her job. I think she was raised to believe that marriage and children is the only thing to do in life. She constantly feels guilty of not being a good mother, when to be honest, she has sacrificed her life for us. She did the best she could with what she had, one of those was a HORRIBLE childhood full of abandonment.

So basically, she needs her children in order to regulate herself. I can't count how many times she has asked if I love her with tears in her eyes. I don't think that kind of behavior helps a child to become independent.

I was asking my mother for an allowance when I was twelve so I can learn how to handle money and she denied saying "I will provide everything for you,your job is to study"...makes perfect sense for how I developed.

Maybe a caregiver of an avoidant is distant and not smothering at all? Maybe on their attempt to teach their child how to be independent, they simply over do it?

The huge difference between anxious types and avoidants is indeed all the analysing. I think it does have to do with you being raised learning to be independent? I don't want to assume anything about you, so I'll be comparing to an imaginary avoidant in my head, assuming they had the exact opposite mother of mine. An indifferent mother when it comes to the childs need of affection, not completely indifferent, I'm not talking about neglect, but let's say the child is crying their *sses off, she just leaves it be thinking it's helping the child to learn how to comfort itself? I've seen a friend of mine do this to her daughter. I think there's a thin line between letting it cry to regulate itself and just letting it cry until it's lost all hope of love, if you get what I'm saying.

I am curious though, you do seem like a person who likes analysing things, how did you get into this and also doing such a great job while at it, but you say you used to shrug it off? You have analysed AP attachments too, to a T! Disclaimer: I am not asking so I can convince my ex about anything, I wasn't ever keen on that idea to begin with. I'm honestly curious, but still you don't have to answer of course.

Completely agree that loving yourself is something everyone should do. There's a reason why they're called "insecure" attachments! I'm so glad you've reached a great point!

I'd say that it's ok to feel different when it comes to relationships, as long as one is not harming anyone while doing it. But, I also understand that at some point, just like me, you probably were tired of all the outcomes and feeling like an "alien"?

@sherry that makes sense!! I was so confused 😂

I wish I could do that too, not analyse my partners or anyone to be exact. But I'm getting there.

I'm glad you got where you are!

@shiningstar true. It's hard for me to find the line that is just me determining if a relationship is good and me over analysing my partner to figure if he loves me. What you suggested sounds great. Like everything else, we need to use our energy on us. It's seem so obvious now that the answer to being happy or not, lies within us. So obvious, I feel stupid now 😂

I've edited the previous post way too much, and what lies below,could apply to any anxious type who's following, so here goes:

I can see why people can see this as drama, it's clearly an obsession, either one acts on it or not. But it's the way I was raised. For me it used to be so normal.

I'm assuming it's the same for an avoidant. They have their behavior called heartless or whatever, when they just find it normal, because that's how they were raised to think, again whether if they act on it or not.

I can't imagine how it feels to not letting anyone close and bolting once it happens. I can't imagine how it is to being "attacked" by someone just for being yourself. Well, I can somewhat, but for me it's not exactly"attacking", but being ignored, which fuels any AP behavior even more. And I'm sure that an APs "attack" towards an avoidant, files their avoidant behavior even more, justifying their decision to leave. That I can relate to too, as I'm realising I do have avoidant streaks, and have had 2-3 guys left wondering on why I left them, and I was COMPLETELY ok with it, as if a switch turned off. Once they came begging to reconcile, which came as a shock to me, I wanted to run away even faster.
I can also imagine though, how hard it is to trust someone.

Either both insecure attachments have more things in common then we know, or I am an FA and I use all this analysing to confirm that my partner is not "the one".
I know labels don't count so much, but I am curious.


Also, labels help so we can figure out what's wrong with ourselves and work on it. But when it comes to the other person, it's just assuming and assumptions are never good. There's a difference in an aware person with an insecure attachment and a person who is not aware. You could actually try to figure things out with an aware one.

It all comes down to what makes you happy though, labels or not.

I feel weak. I don't want to be the woman who's longing for a guy who doesn't want to be with her.

I imagine us meeting and me being that poor thing that just can't get over something. The poor thing that causes so much drama over nothing. Even through this I'm placing my needs last. I'm looking at me through someone else's eye's, but who's? My mom's? My dad's? My own? Who told me that having feelings for someone is to be frowned upon?

I'm glad you feel better.

Here are some observations I have made with a cursory reading of posts on this forum by obsessed, activated AP's:

1) The rejection is very personal to them, the issue to them is DOES HE/SHE LOVE ME?! MISS ME?! WANT MW?!? REALIZE THAT THEY WERE WRONG?!??

2) The means they use for obsessive analysis are all IMPERSONAL. Stalking, assuming, reading accounts of strangers online, reading books, taking attachment tests on behalf of their absent ex, diagnosing, slapping labels on them (First DA, then no it's FA, and also possibly with something on the Autism spectrum, and you name it---- armchair psychologists all over the place) . THESE ARE ALL IMPERSONAL MEANS of trying to determine what to then is VERY PERSONAL. There is a problem with this.

3) The activated AP who is engaged in pursuit of very personal information engages only in impersonal means, and NEVER ASKS DIRECTLY , THE OBJECT OF THEIR OBSESSION. Of course we get why- they are afraid, they are no contact, they may feel humiliated, it's too much drama, they know the answer because they asked or were told previously, the answer may not be what they want to hear, they would not accept the answer.

4) Once the activated AP has performed their impersonal analysis they will make assumptions and install impersonal information from stalking, strangers, the internet, and their own imaginations directly into the heart and mind if the object of their obsession. "I think he still loves me ❤️" I do t think he ever cared 😭" "He is a MONSTER! 😳" He might have Asperger's" "He loves me but is afraid"
ad infinitum.

5) Now that the object of obsession is labeled and their internal states have been analyzed without having been asked, the AP will continue the obsession in that vein until some new piece of information causes them to shift their conclusions to something else. They will continue to stalk, read, obsess and use all this impersonal information for or against their own theories without ever having contact with the object. They cannot be sure of course, what the truth is, and will not ask, and so they just continue doing this for a long time until they are exhausted, or not.

6) There are AP's who have done this for 1-2 years on this forum I believe. Just an observation. If one don't change their BEHAVIORS they could literally be stuck for years.

7). In the activated state they are very defensive about themselves and their behaviors and rebuff any attempts to advise them against it

8) I have no idea how an AP can get out of this but Natalie Lue recommends STOPPING the behaviors, instead of continuing them and feeding one's own emotional dysfunction. She recommends working on family of origin issues and personal internal work , instead of stalking. She recommends reading her blog about what to do internally to heal rather than reading all about the object of obsession.

9) Natalie Lue has a big following and the posters on her blog seem to be in agreement with her about how to get over their obsession. I have not read a ton of comments there but they seem to be following her lead on the blog and not just using the internet to further their obsession.

10). These statements of mine may or may not be helpful but are not ill intentioned.

11) I have been the target of someone's assumptions and projections and it's very offensive to me personally, being written like a book instead of being seen as I am. I've had my best attempt at honesty and openness disregarded in favor of someone else's imagined reality. It feels really oppressive and impossible to work with, it feels just gross and enmeshed and overbearing. That's just the POV of this individual who has been the target in the past and chosen to eliminate all potential means of contact to eliminate that dynamic from my life.

Real relationships require communication and openness between individuals. Period. I get that this is about old abandonment wounds but AP's play it out as if it's real in a relationship, now. There must be a way to stop it, I know there are secure people posting that moved on from it.