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Post by serenity on Aug 8, 2019 7:14:06 GMT
For now I would just assume he's into you Caroline. And that his distancing/asserting his Independence (to you and to others) is a reaction to his increasing anxiety. The situation may prove to be different, but for now it will help to be positive I think. Because this is very FA-like behaviour. Very much like what I've experienced myself (and it did get much better).
Is this his first major deactivation? if so, he would be stressed about avoiding you, then more stressed for avoiding you longer, and more stressed about what he said to the bartender. Which equates to distance..more distance...more distance. In `FA language' I take his comments about the bartender `meddling', and also reaching out to you to talk about depression, medicine, to be an awkward way of trying to find his way back to you.
But just be real mindful of timing any emotional conversations right now? I believe you will get your say, but you want him with his hands off his ears, and especially you don't need more anxiety yourself right now.
I know how much this is hurting you, I've been there. I am hoping so much you will feel better soon, and that you can resolve this with him.
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Post by serenity on Aug 9, 2019 21:40:34 GMT
Hi Caroline, and everyone, ((HUGS)) I hope you are having a nice day today. I've been thinking of you.
Caroline, yes, it does sound to me like a `normal' first deactivation......from the events that triggered him, the duration, humiliating you socially, and how very painful it has been for you (((hugs))).
How are you doing today?
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Post by 8675309 on Aug 10, 2019 1:27:54 GMT
But I worry that will break his trust and know trust is the big issue for FAs. I know its hard but you cant sweat this as its his issue and no matter what you do or say he has this trust issues. This is the reality. The reality, its not about you and its something deep within him.
As a secure that has dealt with an FA, trust, nothing will work as its not about us.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 10, 2019 1:36:37 GMT
But I worry that will break his trust and know trust is the big issue for FAs. I know its hard but you cant sweat this as its his issue and no matter what you do or say he has this trust issues. This is the reality. The reality, its not about you and its something deep within him.
As a secure that has dealt with an FA, trust, nothing will work as its not about us.
This has been my experience too, with 3 FA guys, and a couple (former) FA friends (both genders). If you didn't cause the trust issues, you can't really do anything to heal them. They'll find a way to create distance if they're looking for one. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2019 2:05:48 GMT
I’m feeling a little better today... maybe just from exhaustion. I do miss him though, and am so afraid he’s just going to find someone else all together. I’m also feeling conflicted between reaching out neutral vs just letting things fall off and reaching out later (unless he does)... mainly because it’s just all draining and I want to regain my sense of self / get to a better place (as so much as been going on with me outside of this). But I worry that will break his trust and know trust is the big issue for FAs. Since the last conversation was me not keeping it going and about his depression. The exhaustion is a big red flag. If you go back and read through your first posts about this guy all the way through to this, you might be able to see how you have fallen into a trap of AP obsession with an unavailable partner. You KNOW he isn't capable of a relationship and still you are micro analyzing every little thing about him and what his response might be to your .... manipulations. Yes, you are manipulating for an outcome. You've diagnosed him as FA and given yourself license to go into full on AP mode. Anxious Preoccupation. Preoccupation. Anxiety. Of course you are exhausted. You've got someone here cheerleading your efforts to manipulate this and achieve a desired outcome, even telling you that he is in love with you or whatever words were used. Someone else is giving you all this advice, even advising you to assume he's into you, and coaching you through this anguish of figuring out what. to. do. to. twist. yourself. into. what. you. think. he. needs. He has denied a relationship. But because he is supposedly FA (and what is up with focusing on his dysfunction when you are acting out so much of your own here?) you are being advised about how he's really into you and how he'd be heartbroken if things fell apart and WHAT? Nobody here knows him. What you know about him gives a clear indication that he's not in a relationship with you nor does he seem to want one. He's given you way more evidence to blow this out of the water than to keep it afloat. What about taking care of you? This whole thread seems to be about dancing around his issues while you just get exhausted doing so. What's going on in his mind could be Way Way different from what is being proposed on this thread. Is it healthy to "stay positive" while losing yourself to this? He is depressed and it's no one's place here to mind read him and come up with all kinds of scenarios of what he's really thinking or needing or doing or intending. Go with what you know. Also go with what you know about yourself. It's like you keep brushing aside the fact that you're attached to an emotionally unavailable man and he has become a unicorn you're chasing. I'm not trying to hurt your feelings but you are really throwing yourself against a wall here . It's one thing to support a friend who is down and such another to go day in and day out twisted around an unavailable man. Don't romanticize FA, don't romanticize any insecure attachment style. Your own AP machinations are hurting you here, don't you think?. |
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Post by serenity on Aug 10, 2019 6:21:48 GMT
Sherry loving a FA person where they are at is not manipulating. Conflict resolution isn't either.
with love.
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Post by mrob on Aug 10, 2019 6:32:18 GMT
Hallelujah @sherry
I can spot an agenda way off, and if there’s one thing I don’t like is being manipulated to please someone else. It doesn’t matter if the motives are good or otherwise. I’m me, you are you. The more you try to manipulate me, the smaller my taillights will be in the distance.
It’s never quite that overt, though. Sometimes I haven’t seen what it is until it’s too late. Sometimes I’ve thought it’s been good for me, so I’ve gone along with it. What ends up happening? I feel like Richard o the programme “Keeping Up Appearances”, when really, I’m Onslow (!!)
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Post by serenity on Aug 10, 2019 6:38:00 GMT
And yet you like DA's and being their subordinate mrob? just sayin.
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Post by mrob on Aug 10, 2019 7:20:13 GMT
The boot has been on both feet. I’ve chased unavailable people at times and been disappointed, and at other times I’ve felt totally engulfed. I’m far from as pure as the driven snow. Go back through my post history and you’ll see it. It’s all out there.
I am insecurely attached. I’d rather not be, but I have to work with who I am right now, and work towards some sort of security. I see other insecure people as being like me. Not full of malice, they’re being who they are. Doing the best they can on a daily basis. The wonderful thing about awareness is that I can identify the behaviour early, see my response to it and trim my sails accordingly.
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Post by ocarina on Aug 10, 2019 7:30:45 GMT
Any relationship where a person is walking on eggshells consistently in their communication in order to preserve the relationship, protect an emotionally fragile significant other or because they suspect that sharing true feelings will cause withdrawal in their partner is not healthy for either partner.
The withdtawer is enabled in their disfunction and the helper is damaged emotionally again and again.
I think - having been there somewhat in the past, that the danger in learning communication strategies to work round this, learning all about attachment to excuse this behavior is that it distracts from reality, it allows avoidance of the very real pain and damaged caused by remaining. There is also the very human reaction to cling to hope that things will change IF you learn more, do different etc.
Of course healthy communication strategies are important- but in this instance it would seem to me that @caroline2018 has explored this option multiple times and is now being asked to remain open and living to someone who’s behaviour is leaving her confused and exhausted for good reason.
Look after yourself. Without this there is no chance of having any love to give.
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clara
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Post by clara on Aug 10, 2019 8:46:34 GMT
a partner who communicates their needs in a straightforward fashion = a partner who is controlling and demanding
a partner who tries to understand and accommodate = a partner who manipulates and has an agenda
apparently the only way to show that you care is to leave them and never look back
oh wait!
i'm surprised that people call themselves self-aware yet remain passive, and blind to their confirmation bias
i'm surprised people get called out for being malicious perhaps because they stay attached (and unconsciously want to preserve a relationship they care about )by the same people who claim not to be full of malice but simply insecurely attached
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Post by serenity on Aug 10, 2019 8:48:43 GMT
Mutual beneficial relationships is what most of us aim for. no need to to guilt trip either party for getting some of their needs met.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2019 9:44:11 GMT
From what I'm reading - there is a lot of co-dependency here. You're worried in case you walk away or if you don't respond via i.e not keeping the conversation going longer than before that you feel guilt in case this could be interperated as abandonment or lack of support. You are responsible for your own needs. The same as he responsible for his. The guy has issues and needs to be left alone to deal with them. And only he can address it if and when he chooses. There is no hero in this story.
Take a step back and work on yourself. This situation is a never ending cycle that is clearly damaging and hurting you. Time to step off this roller coaster.
No good is coming from this.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2019 12:31:55 GMT
Codependency is manipulative.
It's based on getting one's own needs met by caretaking someone who isn't emotionally healthy.
I wasn't trying hurt feelings, as I said. But, carry on, if you think it's the right thing to do and is healthy and helpful. It seems to be running you in circles for about 7 months now but there is no emergency, we all have our processes to go through. Good luck!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2019 12:35:27 GMT
Definition of manipulate, per Merriam Webster: [T]o control or play upon by artful, unfair, or insidious means especially to one's own advantage. Definition of agenda, per Merriam Webster: An underlying often ideological plan or program. I think these words are being used a little generously here. I never consider someone manipulating me or having an agenda if they are directly communicating or asking or explaining. The real problem comes when someone can't handle that kind of direct communication. We still need to figure out how to act. A person can act unilaterally, sure. But there IS another person involved here, and many people do try to understand and get along with each other in some fashion. I don't think that is such an awful thing, however, it shouldn't be to the detriment of our own health and sanity.
If you read anything about codependency you will see the word manipulation used quite often to describe the behaviors of the codependent. Here is a really blunt example from a codependent herself. psiloveyou.xyz/confessions-of-a-codependent-the-master-of-manipulation-ea2f148d0f3e |
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