Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2019 13:18:00 GMT
"So yes, it's unlikely that the avoidant will come to this sudden realization, because it likely hasn't really entered their mind. They haven't needed to over analyze, because someone is going right along with how they do things, probably not making a fuss because that's how you "scare an avoidant off." Not the case here. I have had several hard to hear for him conversations. I do not walk on eggshells. Perhaps initially when I have had no clue what this was about. I have left numerous times (which evidently is an established pattern, I believe 7 is the number Serenity quoted me) I can handily scare an avoidant off in any number of ways, no telling. And I have engaged in all the ways possible. He has not once left nor ghosted. I have left. I suppose taking two weeks to respond to my last text could be considered ghosting, but as it pertains to this non relationship relationship he does not ghost. We always maintain contact. I think the longest between was 3 days when he had an injury and again when he was ill. It's all very confusing. The question is, what did those hard conversations net you? An open relationship where you get to sit alone on your birthday? It seems this has been confusing and painful in several ways, and you ended up with permission to go date others. For many women, that would be the end. It's not what you want is it? In spite of all the talking and feelings, is it what you want? Have a look at that video 8675309 just posted in the general forum. It may not be breadcrumbing- but not offering what you want will do. There is something to his point of being powerful and making a stand and letting go of what does not serve you. It's a great video. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2019 13:33:58 GMT
To the point someone else made on this thread.
He cares so much, he offered an open relationship so he wouldn't lose you?
He cares so much about the benefits he reaps from this situation, that he'll open it up and let others enjoy it to so long as he gets his share. That way, you don't get what you want from him, but he gets what he wants from you.
Question this bullshit. This is what I've heard referred to as "Relationship Crack.". It's lined up on the mirror for you and you get to choose whether you're going to snort it or not.
|
|
|
|
Post by mrob on Nov 3, 2019 13:36:25 GMT
I’m sorry to have influenced you to do something that’s unsettled you. I think the key is business like. Take the emotion out of any contact. it sounds like you’ve sorted the logistics out, so it doesn’t sound like there’s a need for contact at all.
He’s not doing anything out of character for an FA. I have done the same. I knew I was entitled to nothing when I cycled, and as the lady concerned said “sometimes love isn’t enough”. This attachment stuff trumps it. Without treatment, Alcoholics drink and do crazy stuff. Without treatment, insecurely attached people act in amazingly predictable damaging patterns. That’s what’s happening here.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2019 13:48:27 GMT
I think the only confusion comes from trying to put a positive spin on any of it, romanticizing any of it. It hurts for a reason. Lots of people put a pollyanna spin on a situation until it burns them badly and then they see- it was painful from early on: and it was too painful to see that.
|
|
|
|
Post by mrob on Nov 3, 2019 13:54:33 GMT
There’s nothing positive about any of this. The term “sick” is frowned upon here, but it’s the best description of someone insecurely attached and untreated, acting in well worn patterns.
This is devastating for everyone.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2019 13:58:33 GMT
There’s nothing positive about any of this. The term “sick” is frowned upon here, but it’s the best description of someone insecurely attached and untreated, acting in well worn patterns. This is devastating for everyone. Absolutely. And this isn't limited to FA behavior. If the demographics were different we could easily be talking about AP protest behavior that escalates to physical and verbal abuse (that's part of the spectrum) or DA behavior that is ghosting and never giving closure , or whatever. All styles work in ways destructive to them and others. The choice always is personal responsibility for ones part in the cycle and making choices that align with competent self care. Only when you're able to do that for yourself can you act in competent care of others. |
|
|
|
Post by serenity on Nov 3, 2019 21:57:58 GMT
All replying to him did was open the door for further and ongoing communication. Including him asking me what I was doing later on and tomorrow (yesterday) Hes come back as if nothing has happened. And yes, it is exactly as Serenity said, he wants me, he cares for me, but he knows he cannot fully be there for me. I don't know. I told him I had plans. I did not see him. I never heard from my date, so I stayed in. Which was fine. I slept and that only helped with my cold. This is exceptionally difficult. I know I should just walk as the feelings in the throes of this are nauseating. That said, it is very clear that I care for him. Right now I'm doing nothing. Hey Jules, I hope you are feeling a bit better; its hard to deal with all this when your immune system is down  My ex and I came to a similar cross roads as you're experiencing I was very proactive about meeting my needs for intimacy and connection via friends. I am monogamous and didn't date others, but I spent a lot of time with close friends and valued them as equal to my ex. (there were no birthdays sitting around alone, lol) Unfortunately, this became our main underlying relationship issue; he was jealous, and it made him feel like he `socially malfunctioned' (his words). He winded up getting bitchy about my friendships.(read: loads of silent treatments and not talking about it) And then became verbally abusive at work in front of important friends and colleagues, in a way that was undermining of my income and career. His jealousy and going too far in his attempt to isolate me was the nail in the coffin for our romantic relationship. This thread in the DA section is interesting. The OP still cared for her DA , had a ton in common with him, and decided to transform her relationship into a caring friendship after a period of NC. She found him to be more consistent and communicative as her friend. Anyway its one alternative to permanently ghosting someone you love, if you are looking for other options. jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1519/da-single-decades-hopeless |
|
|
|
Post by Dualcitizen on Nov 3, 2019 23:09:22 GMT
I don't think holding onto anger is the best way to grieve Its part of grief, but getting to the pain of loss, feeling the love, cracking through denial and reaching an acceptance are also part of it. I think the process takes longer than 2 weeks, and is best done with a period of no contact (including blocking for at least a month). This is purely to beat the addiction component of the relationship, and deal with cognitive dissonance. Your mind starts clearing a lot after a month, and after several months pass its clearer again. If you keep the relationship level and don't lash out in anger or give into anxious reaching out, there will be opportunities for closure, even friendship in the future. But when you're in the grips of an addictive bond, the most important thing is to realize you are vulnerable, and give yourself distance. These are difficult bonds to break, and the grief can feel overwhelming when you fully feel it. But you do survive and come to feel well again. Personally, unless a person has really really done something wrong and been toxic, and has no remorse, would I ever block them. That is an extreme measure, and to be honest you can expect never to be talked to again, regardless in future. If she does indeed want to remain on "distant friendly" terms with a chance to talk again in future, I wouldn't be blocking personally. |
|
|
|
Post by serenity on Nov 3, 2019 23:50:19 GMT
Personally, unless a person has really really done something wrong and been toxic, and has no remorse, would I ever block them. That is an extreme measure, and to be honest you can expect never to be talked to again, regardless in future. If she does indeed want to remain on "distant friendly" terms with a chance to talk again in future, I wouldn't be blocking personally. I'm on friendly terms with both my FA exes, and I blocked during the `getting over them ' period. I told them why though, and that my goal was to attempt platonic friendship when I was over my romantic feelings for them. There was a lot of bad behaviour including unprovoked stonewalling and silent treatments on their part leading up to the relationship breakup, so I guess they understood my need for space. Ghosting without an explanation is something I would regard as rude. |
|
|
|
Post by Dualcitizen on Nov 4, 2019 1:00:24 GMT
Personally, unless a person has really really done something wrong and been toxic, and has no remorse, would I ever block them. That is an extreme measure, and to be honest you can expect never to be talked to again, regardless in future. If she does indeed want to remain on "distant friendly" terms with a chance to talk again in future, I wouldn't be blocking personally. I'm on friendly terms with both my FA exes, and I blocked during the `getting over them ' period. I told them why though, and that my goal was to attempt platonic friendship when I was over my romantic feelings for them. There was a lot of bad behaviour including unprovoked stonewalling and silent treatments on their part leading up to the relationship breakup, so I guess they understood my need for space. Ghosting without an explanation is something I would regard as rude. Ahh yes but there was communication there as you stipulate. I'm talking no communication or reason given for blocking, but it's done. Not a good way to stay on reasonable terms, is all i'm saying. |
|
|
|
Post by stu on Nov 4, 2019 1:41:29 GMT
I'm on friendly terms with both my FA exes, and I blocked during the `getting over them ' period. I told them why though, and that my goal was to attempt platonic friendship when I was over my romantic feelings for them. There was a lot of bad behaviour including unprovoked stonewalling and silent treatments on their part leading up to the relationship breakup, so I guess they understood my need for space. Ghosting without an explanation is something I would regard as rude. Ahh yes but there was communication there as you stipulate. I'm talking no communication or reason given for blocking, but it's done. Not a good way to stay on reasonable terms, is all i'm saying. [br I recently ubfollowed my ex fa on Instagram and removed her from Facebook. But that's because I don't plan on being friends with her, and she ghosted me with no explanation and then moved on to a new guy while never telling me a word. Despite me reaching out more then a couple times. Personally I did it so I wouldn't have to see her posts and digital Life, though I do regret that I didn't just unsubscribe from her instead. My reasons were that I knew I would still check in and hold an attachment if I unsubscribed because I could still choose to look at her profile, stories, etc if the temptation was there. Nothing personal against her and didnt do it to be spiteful or make her react. Sometimes people just need that extra separation to not fall into habits of checking in. Still it's an awkward thing to deal with over all. |
|
|
|
Post by Dualcitizen on Nov 4, 2019 3:29:23 GMT
Ahh yes but there was communication there as you stipulate. I'm talking no communication or reason given for blocking, but it's done. Not a good way to stay on reasonable terms, is all i'm saying. [br I recently ubfollowed my ex fa on Instagram and removed her from Facebook. But that's because I don't plan on being friends with her, and she ghosted me with no explanation and then moved on to a new guy while never telling me a word. Despite me reaching out more then a couple times. Personally I did it so I wouldn't have to see her posts and digital Life, though I do regret that I didn't just unsubscribe from her instead. My reasons were that I knew I would still check in and hold an attachment if I unsubscribed because I could still choose to look at her profile, stories, etc if the temptation was there. Nothing personal against her and didnt do it to be spiteful or make her react. Sometimes people just need that extra separation to not fall into habits of checking in. Still it's an awkward thing to deal with over all. Nah and that's fair enough Stu. Well done and hope you heal. And agreed. |
|
|
|
Post by serenity on Nov 4, 2019 6:44:51 GMT
I'm on friendly terms with both my FA exes, and I blocked during the `getting over them ' period. I told them why though, and that my goal was to attempt platonic friendship when I was over my romantic feelings for them. There was a lot of bad behaviour including unprovoked stonewalling and silent treatments on their part leading up to the relationship breakup, so I guess they understood my need for space. Ghosting without an explanation is something I would regard as rude. Ahh yes but there was communication there as you stipulate. I'm talking no communication or reason given for blocking, but it's done. Not a good way to stay on reasonable terms, is all i'm saying. I feel that the risk of FA cycling and getting pulled back into the addictive cycle is so high for a few months, ongoing communication is a big risk after a serious breakup. You see it over and over.. the communication is kept open, and in a moment of weakness or loneliness before healing has occurred, the FA partner gets pulled back into the addiction. My attitude is that there is literally a lifetime ahead of you to work things out as friends or acquaintances if you want to. A few months of no contact to free yourself of addiction to a trauma bond, intermittent reinforcement, sex or whatever applies in the circumstance, is nothing in the scheme of things IMO. |
|
jules
Full Member
Posts: 142
|
Post by jules on Nov 4, 2019 10:32:38 GMT
Lots to say but no time to say it...I have got to get ready for my first day!
I will post later.
Thank you all for replying.
Here's the short of it; I'm going to be ok. Lol.
No matter what, always.
Thank you guys so very much!!
Wish me luck!
|
|
|
|
Post by Nefertiti on Nov 4, 2019 13:00:37 GMT
jules , if you want to cut the cycle off until you're further healed, don't play games (read but ignore his texts because he keeps vanishing on you with no notice). Just respond, "yes, please send my things back, and I'm going dark for a while because I need space." And then block him. Maybe not forever, but for now and for a while, so you can start to heal without the distractions. It's respectful as you're not just ghosting but you're holding your boundary and stepping off. I think it's very often the case in these breakups, that it's not the avoidant (or whatever they've been diagnosed as by the partner posting here) that's changed their perspective of the whole thing, when they get back in touch. It's the dissatisfied partner here, who has changed their perspective over time. Typically when the ex or avoidant or whatever gets in touch, the motive is probably "Hey, this worked for you for a long time, in spite of what you said. So, just checking to see if we can engage the way we used to, when you didn't question me, when it was all copacetic. We didn't talk about stuff then, or if we did, I let you know I'm not exactly what you're looking for. How you doin' ?" So, reactions to this return approach are understandably dramatic because of the emotions involved on the part of the person here. However, I think it's risky to read into their contact too much because the content will be viewed through a HIGHLY subjective lens. A lazy text, is just a lazy text, at the end of the day . No really invested person would try to rekindle anything or have a serious conversation at all that way. It would just be same ole' same ole. We are all adults and often these things are conducted on the high school level, unfortunately. Just my thoughts on that. Yes, if you're done you're done and it shows by clear communication straight to the point and then perhaps a block so you can deal with your own process without interference and shenanigans going on in the background. This is so true. The avoidant is clueless about how the partner is feeling. So any angry reaction to ghosting and returning suddenly (acting like nothing happened) is seen as undeserved and you, the non-avoidant partner, find yourself confused all over again. It's just a rollercoaster ride. Never-ending. Always back to square one. The only one who lives in confusion and angst is the non-avoidant partner. The avoidant partner is pretty much comfortable with things as they are. Just as you have described. What I have noticed with my FA who is back in touch is that my recent non-reaction reaction has got him totally confused. I basically decided to mirror his actions. I have not responded to direct messages but act friendly and respond in group chats where we are discussing general things. He actually texted me yesterday asking if I am okay and why I am not responding. Again, I read the messages (blue ticks) but I didn't respond. I figure that he can do whatever he wants with the new situation. One thing that has helped me tremendously is accepting that I cannot help him. And that it would require him to do something drastic like write me a long email explaining himself and his behaviour before I even consider thinking of communicating with him again outside of our regular group meets and chats. Maybe explaining his issues as he sees them. Questioning himself. Basically putting himself out there. Something he seems determined to never do. Furthermore, I am dating again. Well, early days yet. Just had one date so far. But I have found that the minute I went on that first date, my angst over my FA bf practically disappeared. Who knew that actually opening oneself up to date others (just go to dinner and start talking) could help shift my focus so much? The old saying about the best way to get over someone is to find someone else may have some wisdom in it. Another thing I concluded is that I shall not be a pawn in someone else's game which has unknown rules and in which the main player is himself clueless about what will happen from one day to another. No way. Because no matter whether it is an attachment style issue or not, the pain is real. I don't want it anymore. I do not deserve it. And that, really, is the bottom line. |
|
