ju
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Post by ju on Nov 19, 2019 19:21:20 GMT
Hi everyone.
I'm absolutely devastated that my protest behaviour has back fired.
I've been seeing this amazing guy for just over 3 months. He has suffered chaotic childhood trauma and gone onto abusive relationships. We seemed like solemates, both difficult childhoods and life experiences. He seemed very self aware as I am. Everything was going great although he talked about his abusive ex reliving it over and over. I reassured him non of his past was his fault and I put all my energy into trying to sooth his anxiety. He has an ongoing custody battle with ex over his son who he adores. Unfortunately he became more and more distant and all he talked to me about was his ex and fear of loosing his son. It started to consume him and I put more and more energy into trying to sooth him. The shift in his energy away from me triggered my insecurities but I kept quiet. I also realised I was falling in love, but he kept saying he wanted to take things slowly as his ex demanded his time and commitment. I kept saying he didn't need to feel he had to see me. I put his needs first above my own and kept my ever growing anxiety hidden. If he did notice my mood shift, I'd explain I felt he was going distant and he just kept saying he was scared of loosing his son, then start retelling the ex story. When he was with me he would be on his phone online shopping (he is a shopaholic) or games. I started to feel ignored and it all came to a head on Sunday. I was in a high state of anxiety and felt an overwhelming fear he didn't care about me and all the little red flags triggered the worst dysfunctional behaviour. I explained I was in love with him but felt ignored and like he was distant when together. He said nothing. I said I was afraid of getting hurt and he said he wouldn't hurt me, but I said that his lack of emotions were hurting me as he was so closed. I was met with silence and out of pure desperation I said "I'm out" and at this he left.
I regretted it and I've tried to contact him explaining why I said what I did and how sorry I am. He has responded with coldness and seems like a stranger. He said I'd said I was out and I'm playing games which his ex did. I sent him a video on anxious and fear avoident relationships that described us and our behaviours perfectly, hoping it would help him see why I reacted the way I did. I just wanted him to tell me he cared for me. I am absolutely filled with self loathing because of my behaviour and the fact it has caused him to abandon me, which I feared anyway. How can I get through to him that I'm sorry? Has anyone any experience of fear avoident types? I cant eat or sleep and I'm obsessively thinking about him every waking second. I feel like I'm going mad. Have I messed up and lost the guy I think is perfect for me in every other way? Please help
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Post by dhali on Nov 19, 2019 21:28:17 GMT
I’m sorry you’re going through this. Based on what you wrote, he does seem avoidant. You pushed him away and he bailed. It sounds pretty final to me. And I, personally, would do the same. No matter what triggered it. I know you don’t feel this right now, but you’re better off.
My advice, would be to focus on your self-esteem of why you’re willing to accept a relationship that doesn’t meet your need. I’d also focus on looking at your needs. Not in reference to an avoidant, but in reference to what’s generally acceptable. I’d try to approach the world with an optimistic outcome. For example- your needs aren’t getting met, move on, feeling confident that you’ll find someone else who does a better job at meeting your needs. Why? Because you’re a secure, confident person who has than coming to them.
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Post by lovebunny on Nov 19, 2019 22:01:22 GMT
Ok, breathe,
So he's going through some serious baby mama drama, a custody battle, and is not healed from trauma caused by his abusive ex. How long have they been separated? To me it sounds like he is currently unable to meet your emotional needs. Sounds like all his bandwidth goes into ruminating about and dealing with his ex, and of course he needs to put his child first in all of this.
You got triggered by his lack of attentiveness, and responded by walking out on him. But even if you had calmly proceeded to tell him what you want and need, do you really think he could give it to you right now? He needs to sort out the custody mess with his ex and child, and isn't available for the relationship you want.
You can do your own work by looking at your abandonment issues and learning how to communicate with someone before you reach critical mass and protest behaviors. None of this is easy stuff, and no reason you should feel "filled with self-loathing," which isn't helpful to anyone.
I know it hurts, but it might be wise to give him some space, take some space yourself, and consider if this relationship really has enough green flags going on that it ought to continue at this time. Hugs.
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Post by number9 on Nov 19, 2019 22:05:53 GMT
Hi everyone. I'm absolutely devastated that my protest behaviour has back fired. I've been seeing this amazing guy for just over 3 months. He has suffered chaotic childhood trauma and gone onto abusive relationships. We seemed like solemates, both difficult childhoods and life experiences. He seemed very self aware as I am. Everything was going great although he talked about his abusive ex reliving it over and over. I reassured him non of his past was his fault and I put all my energy into trying to sooth his anxiety. He has an ongoing custody battle with ex over his son who he adores. Unfortunately he became more and more distant and all he talked to me about was his ex and fear of loosing his son. It started to consume him and I put more and more energy into trying to sooth him. The shift in his energy away from me triggered my insecurities but I kept quiet. I also realised I was falling in love, but he kept saying he wanted to take things slowly as his ex demanded his time and commitment. I kept saying he didn't need to feel he had to see me. I put his needs first above my own and kept my ever growing anxiety hidden. If he did notice my mood shift, I'd explain I felt he was going distant and he just kept saying he was scared of loosing his son, then start retelling the ex story. When he was with me he would be on his phone online shopping (he is a shopaholic) or games. I started to feel ignored and it all came to a head on Sunday. I was in a high state of anxiety and felt an overwhelming fear he didn't care about me and all the little red flags triggered the worst dysfunctional behaviour. I explained I was in love with him but felt ignored and like he was distant when together. He said nothing. I said I was afraid of getting hurt and he said he wouldn't hurt me, but I said that his lack of emotions were hurting me as he was so closed. I was met with silence and out of pure desperation I said "I'm out" and at this he left. I regretted it and I've tried to contact him explaining why I said what I did and how sorry I am. He has responded with coldness and seems like a stranger. He said I'd said I was out and I'm playing games which his ex did. I sent him a video on anxious and fear avoident relationships that described us and our behaviours perfectly, hoping it would help him see why I reacted the way I did. I just wanted him to tell me he cared for me. I am absolutely filled with self loathing because of my behaviour and the fact it has caused him to abandon me, which I feared anyway. How can I get through to him that I'm sorry? Has anyone any experience of fear avoident types? I cant eat or sleep and I'm obsessively thinking about him every waking second. I feel like I'm going mad. Have I messed up and lost the guy I think is perfect for me in every other way? Please help For starters, on a practical note, please eat something -- even just a fruit smoothie, maybe, or a piece of fruit or even some toast. So many of our feelings are linked with the chemistry of our bodies, and lack of food will make you feel even worse. I, too, have had the "can't sleep can't eat" devastation, and it really becomes a vicious cycle. Feel bad = can't eat, can't eat = feel worse. Secondly, from what you describe, it sounds like you have been very patient and supportive -- to the point that you've been willing to neglect yourself and your own needs. It's so so so understandable a person in your position would get to the point that you would have to say something about your feeling neglected. Maybe it wasn't your most "skillful" behaviour -- maybe not the best way to communicate your feelings and thoughts -- but it is just so very understandable and human of you. Can you imagine what you might say about the situation to a really good friend in your shoes? It's good that you are here, getting support from people (who probably have much better advice than I do! haha) -- many can say more about how this current situation is triggering your past feelings of loss or abandonment or even "not saying the perfect thing when you are upset." I hope you can have some compassion for yourself. Take all that love you have and turn it to yourself. You can get some help with that from this website: self-compassion.org/ - which I have found very helpful when I have been feeling devastated, unable to eat or sleep. I rarely comment on here, but your post really touches my heart and I really hope you can find some relief. xo |
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Post by faithopelove on Nov 19, 2019 23:38:35 GMT
Final?? It’s way too soon to make that call. People say things in the heat of the moment and when they’re triggered. It doesn’t mean those feelings will stick. If you believe you share a true connection then there’s no reason why you can’t repair and recover. You may not be happy going back to the same dynamic but that’s a separate issue completely. Give him some time to cool off and process- give him time to think about if he really wants to lose you. Also, if he can cut you so easily after one conflict, is that someone you can sustain a relationship with long-term? Don’t panic. Sit tight and focus on you and dealing better with your anxiety.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2019 0:16:28 GMT
The most important part of this story unfortunately is that this man has been in an abusive relationship and is in a custody battle with his abusive ex.
This is the most important crisis and one which you can do nothing about. He likely does not have the emotional capacity to be involved in a healthy way while he is dealing with such a terrible process.
You can get help for your anxious preoccupation with him, and that would be good for you. But a custody battle is of primary importance and it's a major emotional and financial burden. The outcomes of these things can be devastating especially when abusive people use the children as pawns. He is looking at a lifetime of parental alienation, as a possibility, I'm sure. That is very common in heated custody disputes.
Just a perspective- that is a major life stressor involving his child. He can't afford to lose his mind over an unhealthy relationship. Neither can you. Respect his boundaries and give him time to navigate the custody issue. Kudos to him if that's his priority- that's as it should be. If you're not healthy and secure you can't be the best support for him in that. That's just the reality of insecure relationships- they are stressors not necessarily safe havens.
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Post by alexandra on Nov 20, 2019 0:37:27 GMT
ju, I'm sorry you're hurting and are feeling so miserably triggered anxious right now. When you're feeling more up to looking at things objectively, please consider the narrative you are telling yourself. "I sent him a video on anxious and fear avoident relationships that described us and our behaviours perfectly, hoping it would help him see why I reacted the way I did. I just wanted him to tell me he cared for me. I am absolutely filled with self loathing because of my behaviour and the fact it has caused him to abandon me, which I feared anyway. I feel like I'm going mad. Have I messed up and lost the guy I think is perfect for me in every other way?" So... the story you're telling yourself in your triggered state is he's perfect and you caused him to leave you. What I'm seeing in your post is he's always been fearful avoidant, due to growing up with trauma and (unconsciously) seeking out abusive relationships which reinforced his attachment style. He is emotionally unhealthy, has found other emotionally unhealthy partners, and has engaged in the typical cycles with them. His most recent ex played games with him and he can't get over it plus is under extra stress because of his child being involved. Having an insecure attachment styles makes someone pretty challenged to manage stress, and while he's trying to take responsibility for his kid, he's stuck on vilifying his wife and dumping on you about it (FA and AP need others to emotionally regulate them because they lack tools to self-regulate and seek it externally) instead of taking responsibility to heal himself from the relationship with his ex-wife. You allowed yourself to not only be in this role of being his emotional regulator, you blamed yourself for him abandoning you... when he wasn't fully present to begin with and when you spoke up about your needs. Because you've positioned him as perfect, and as better than you (AP projections). And you're expecting him to be able to regulate you while you regulate him. I hope you can see, even from your own words, that he's not perfect for you in every way except this one little misunderstanding. You also can't "make" someone abandon you. People are responsible for their own choices. You triggered him and reminded him of troublesome behaviors in his past, but that's not the real problem here. The problem is he's FA (and under serious stress), and you're AP, and this is how the dance goes for that insecure dynamic, especially when the partners are unaware insecure or not already on the road to healing their attachment style. You like him and you feel for him, but this is not a perfect situation of losing a perfect partner. When you are less anxiously triggered, it may be helpful to reflect on what you're seeking, why you're seeking it from someone deeply emotionally unavailable and unable to support you in any way, and what holes in your own self confidence and self acceptance have led you to project a story that places all the blame and negativity of the situation on yourself. It's a good starting point to sort through your own past trauma, understand yourself, and start building up your own confidence. That's how you get through this.
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ju
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Posts: 12
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Post by ju on Nov 20, 2019 6:34:03 GMT
Wow! Firstly, thank you to all of you who have replied offering insights, advice and support.
I've literally given you a snippet of the journey we have been on. To go into it more would fill this board up!
I'm studying for a degree (mature 40 year student) all based around Childhood and development psychology and I work in a school supporting children who have RAD. I'm far from an expert but I'm learning and I'm very self aware and I'm already doing things like mindfulness, positive affirmations and have had therapy years ago for my own childhood trauma. I see myself as a work in progress and although I'm anxious preoccupied in relationships, I'm avoident or FA with parents and siblings. I understand the reasons why and I'm working hard to change my behaviour patterns.
The sad thing is, this guy is incredibly attentive towards me most of the time. He texts (or did before I triggered him) everyday and always initiated texts and phone calls. The reason for this is I think if I ring him, I'm bothering him (yep unhealthy thought). We always checked the other is ok "are you happy?" "Can I do anything?" Or similar questions. He is very open about his past and although I had a far from ideal upbringing, his was horrendous. Mum was abusive and had MHP and when he was my youngest daughters age (8) he was but in a boarding school for problem kids. I'm highly empathetic and I feel so incredibly sad that he has suffered so much, yet he is unbelievably resilient. He has an amazing job which has allowed him to travel the world.
His ex sounds like she has BPD and is relentless with trying to control him and using their son as a weapon. He has 50/50 custody and she is dragging it back to court. He has told me his deepest fear is loosing the 50/50 with his son. I totally understand how horrendous this is for him. I have three children myself and I feel lost when they go to their dad every other weekend.
He repeats things to me that he has already told me and seems unaware. I say gently "yes you told me this already" followed by soothing him about his fear of loosing his son. He gets anxious but tries to deny it, not to me but more himself. When I try to get him to talk about us or challenge his ideas in anyway (usually I gently challenge his negative outlook or hopelessness and replace it with a suggestion of a more positive outlook) he just jumps back to the story of what's hurting him or where things have gone wrong in the past. It often appears that he hasn't listened to a word I've said. Its draining when he calls and he asks if I'm ok, I say yes and then he goes into the latest email his ex has sent with threats. I inwardly groan as I know he needs soothing again. This has been almost daily in the last month as things have escalated.
I have suggested that with everything going off, he doesn't have the time or headspace for me or my needs right now. But he seemed to freeze and panic and said no I like spending time with you, you calm me and make me feel relaxed. In the beginning he would take me out and introduce me to new experiences. We love music and went to see Snowpatrol last week. We have loads of gig tickets booked too I've never had a more caring and attentive partner when he is regulated. The court battle is draining him, but he has drained me too but he seems oblivious to the impact all this has on me. The good outweighed the difficult times, but I understand why he behaves the way he does. I have suggested he sees someone about his stress/anxiety levels. Lots of his behaviour looks like PTS which is likely due to his trauma past and present. Yes he has problems, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't try and make things work and help him heal and move forwards. Yes, I need to shift the balance and put more energy into myself and sorting my issues, but I don't like being alone and can only tolerate my own company for short periods (but that's not the reason for wanting to be with him. I dont need him, I want him) We are not meant to be alone and I do have a connection with this guy. He never yells at me, or hits me, or tries to control me or abuse me in anyway. He has just shut down and become distracted which has triggered my attachment style and stupid protest reaction. I also know that one comment "I'm out" I made, is all he will focus on and he will be questioning the trust he felt in our relationship.
I wrote and sent him a really positive letter last night going through our story since we met. I ended it with talking about the elephant in the room. It comes from my heart and if that doesn't strike a cord with him, then I've done all I can. He has read it as I can see on WhatsApp. I will now back off and let him figure out what his needs are.
I'm sure I will continue on this roller coaster of anxiety but try and concentrate on recouping my energy. Thank you all once again for replying. Its reassuring to read other peoples perspectives.
I'm going to go to the GP and see if short term meds might help my anxiety although I hate being on medication. I will also see if there is an option of therapy although our NHS is limited so this might not be an option for me right now. Talking to you guys is a kind of therapy and I really can't thank you enough. X
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ju
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Post by ju on Nov 21, 2019 12:56:30 GMT
Really struggling. I just keep breaking down and crying. He didn't respond to the letter and its hurt me even more. He obviously had no feeling for me and I feel like an idiot for falling for someone emotionally unavailable. I know he is operating from past wounds as I am, but it still bloody hurts.
I'm watching help videos and trying to look inwards. The thought of this weekend alone is killing me.
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Post by serenity on Nov 21, 2019 18:54:34 GMT
Hey Ju,
This sounds like FA or DA normal first deactivation to me, bang on the end of the honeymoon period which is normal. It feels so dehumanising and painful, that it literally traumatizes most partners who go through it the first time.
He Gaslit you into ending it, but he was deactivating/withdrawing anyway. The honeymoon `high' lovey neurochemicals can get most avoidants through the honeymoon period, then their attachment system and (in this case) other problems take precedence. It honestly has nothing to do with you. If you had not protested, he would have withdrawn anyway soon. You were entitled to call him on his withdrawral BTW, most people do.
The important thing to know, is if he has the FA or DA attachment style, he is going to take space now for a while and you can't change it in the short term. It can last Weeks, months, forever. Who knows. What I suggest, is don't reach out to him, reach out to other people instead. And focus on you. You are experiencing trauma right now and you need a lot of care and support.
Do you have a therapist to help you through this at all?
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ju
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Post by ju on Nov 21, 2019 23:15:12 GMT
Thank you Serenity. He replied tonight basically saying he saw it coming, I pushed the wrong button, he has been here before and there is nothing else to say. The message was long but he said I pulled the rug, I triggered him and who knows how things could have been if I had not said "I'm out".
I asked to speak on the phone and he said he needed to clear his head first. Go away for the weekend.
TBH I woke up there and then. I've heard him talk and blame past partners and even his other kids for doing him wrong. I understand subconsciously he has gone for abusive women, but I felt in that moment, that after giving myself to him (it's taken me 40 years to fall in love) that he had dismissed all my support. I felt like he had laid trip wires for me.
I actually said I thought nobody would meet his expectations and he was waiting for me to mess up, so he could say "yep they are all the same." I explained I was heartbroken and I'd never demanded or put on him. My energy levels are so depleted that his response actually triggered what little self respect I have. I know I'm far from perfect but I've been relentless in giving to this guy when he can't regulate himself. Then he said he needs time this weekend to clear his head. I thought, wow, he's hurting, but cant commit, I'm breaking and love him. How messed up is this?! He can have his space and if he comes back I shall set boundaries. In the mean time I need to get a grip and be happy with myself. Ironically before I met him, I was pretty happy on my own. It's all like the matrix! No relationship is perfect, but to blame others without looking within... I still adore him. I suppose if it's meant to be, it will be.
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ju
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Post by ju on Nov 22, 2019 9:08:52 GMT
serenity my GP has left details for me to collect on therapy. I do want to see a therapist. I feel so sad right now. I think deep down, he doesn't want things to end but he has unrealistic expectations of a partner. He said he'd seen what happened coming a few weeks ago! It was a few weeks ago I noticed the change in him so it's almost like he has pushed for my protest. I'm not blaming him, but how can he ever learn to love if he lives life pushing people away and then blaming them for doing him wrong?!
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Post by lovebunny on Nov 22, 2019 12:22:18 GMT
I actually said I thought nobody would meet his expectations and he was waiting for me to mess up, so he could say "yep they are all the same." Sorry you're going through this, it sucks. I felt the same with my ex FA she was just waiting for me to mess up so she'd have an excuse to jettison the relationship. She dumped me after our first fight. Even if I hadn't blown up at her that night (and justifiably so) she would've found an excuse to walk eventually. It's going to suck for a minute, but we all come through the pain to the other side, eventually. |
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ju
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Post by ju on Nov 22, 2019 12:58:41 GMT
I actually said I thought nobody would meet his expectations and he was waiting for me to mess up, so he could say "yep they are all the same." Sorry you're going through this, it sucks. I felt the same with my ex FA she was just waiting for me to mess up so she'd have an excuse to jettison the relationship. She dumped me after our first fight. Even if I hadn't blown up at her that night (and justifiably so) she would've found an excuse to walk eventually. It's going to suck for a minute, but we all come through the pain to the other side, eventually. Sorry you have gone through this too. How long had you been in the relationship? |
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Post by lovebunny on Nov 22, 2019 20:12:13 GMT
Ju, I was with her 8 1/2 months. I'm still not entirely over it 5 months later. But I'm a slow healer when it comes to rejection. It's way less painful than it was 5 months ago.
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