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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2019 6:16:16 GMT
All very good points and observations as well, @janedoe ! I think a very important consideration also, is consistency. Even avoidants crave it, but it can't be found in an anxious avoidant due because of the amount of triggering. If two people are able to be mutually satisfied with a consistent relationship that isn't triggering and reactive, or manipulative, then it's good enough I'd say. I don't think you can really change completely down to your core- you integrate and work with your innate tendencies, and become more secure with work but I don't think you totally lose your connection to your original style. I agree about the consistency. I would say vulnerability is key also...and at a healthy pace based on time and trust earned (I say that because many people expect it all up front at once, but no, boundaries are ALSO healthy). And I mean true vulnerability (not emotional manipulation!). But the amount of emotional attention one needs vs. what one gives may vary and that is not necessarily a matter of emotional health or availability. An emotionally unavailable person is not really truly vulnerable, and they do not truly connect on their end. And sometimes people connect differently also. If someone doesn't connect the way you like, that doesn't mean he/she is emotionally unavailable. I connect more on a mental level than I do a physical level, and I know I am an oddball because of that. I don't go around criticizing others for not connecting how I do. All so true. Additionally, I believe that if a person is aware of their emotional availability, and possesses empathy and the desire to connect, then even if on the spectrum of emotional unavailability they tend to become more available over time in a relationship. So I'm not thinking that you need to be 100% healthy starting out- it's all a process. I ofteb see here, standard issues of dual insecure attachment, with at least one party completely unaware and not striving for intimacy, and a lot of focus outside the self. That's never a recipe for emotional availability and a healthy mutual relationship. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2019 6:23:57 GMT
I've read a lot of your posts focusing on insecure attachment in others and not in yourself. Your perspective is frustrating for me also, and as I read through this thread and saw all the anxious, secure, and FA members commenting on the AP behavior of the OP, I marveled at the fact that I am the only member you have singled out with the talk of blaming and accusing someone of being AP without ample supporting evidence. In spite of OP's repeated claims that she is AP. I would appreciate an end to our interaction here. It's absurd to me, to be targeted by you for my posting about the AP dynamic on an AP thread. Sorry you felt singled out Sherry. I can see your point of view. I only single you out because you're the pretty one. Meh, that's just what mean girls do. 😉 |
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Post by serenity on Nov 23, 2019 6:26:51 GMT
lul
It is really hard recovering from a relationship, and trying to be sensitive to friends on this forum. I do want to apologise, it can be hard going listening to my stuff. I consider the avoidants here self aware, and really the things i say don't apply you at all.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2019 6:30:25 GMT
@janedoe, do you find you find yourself more comfortable with independent partners then? I'm curious to ask which side of your FA is your standard operating mode, if there is one? Do you feel a subconscious pull toward either end of the insecure spectrum, or does intellectual attraction trump it all? This is probably for another thread, sorry!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2019 6:34:52 GMT
lul It is really hard recovering from a relationship, and trying to be sensitive to friends on this forum. I do want to apologise, it can be hard going listening to my stuff. I consider the avoidants here self aware, and really the things i say don't apply you at all. I do appreciate that. I'd like to be able to post my contributions without unfair bias against me. Although it's only a small annoyance to receive interaction like this from you, it does detract from my primary purpose which is to engage in discussion about the remedies to insecure attachment. I could ignore it but also feel inclined to stand my ground in instances such as this, and respond directly to comments made to me and about me specifically (as you've done here). Going forward there are no hard feelings, but please try to interpret my comments from the perspective that you just shared. I have had and still have my share of pain, and my aim in participating here is to contribute to solutions for myself and others. |
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Post by mrob on Nov 23, 2019 9:30:51 GMT
God, this board can be lumpy sometimes, but this is such good stuff, folks. Just what I needed to hear.
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Post by mrob on Nov 23, 2019 9:48:59 GMT
It sounds like you're saying the only viable people to choose a relationship with are secure, is that what you mean? My understanding is that mrob might actually not want the kind of relationship an AP or a secure person would want and so might be considering if someone who is a little distant could work for him or not. He didn't say he was dead set on continuing, just thinking about what to do. I actually have friends who are a couple and are both DAs and they are happy. They're both a bit emotionally unavailable. They never want to live with each other, or anyone. They're very independent. They don't seem to have a desire to become fully secure or fully "emotionally available." But they have a pretty secure relationship with each other because their avoidance just works well with each other. mrob asking himself whether or not it's possible if the woman he's just started dating's "condition" would work well with his own could possibly be realistic rather than rationalization. mrob, I hope I'm not speaking out of turn here, correct me if I'm wrong about any of this. I know you don't want to date anyone AP, so I don't think it's totally nuts if you're considering someone who is a little bit "unavailable." I totally get the point you're making here, and I do identify with it. Even though I am doing a lot of work to increase my emotional availability, I don't know that I will ever be inclined to a relationship that isn't a bit more distant than most would like. Avoidant/avoidant works for me, as long as a mutual level of intimacy and availability is possible. It depends upon the emotional health of each person, and a willingness and ability to adapt and feel secure in the reality of who the other person is. Also, I don't know if that applies in mrob situation, or what exactly is meant by unavailable. Avoidance is definitely on a spectrum. That has been my thoughts. I don’t think I could handle escalation towards cohabitation and marriage. In fact, I’d still rule that out. It’s something I don’t want, but I’d like some companionship. I’ve been out with people at every end of this spectrum and in between. I had a secure who was lovely, but it was just hard work and I could see myself pulling her anxious because things weren’t starting to go at her speed. The secure lady I dragged into anxiety that for me here, it was just too painful for her. I never want to do that again. I had an AP whose 20 year old daughter tried to make moves, dead set scary.. and two more APs. I had a DA who I really like but just triggers me so anxious! For growth, nobody could beat my secure second wife. She turned me into a human being and I repaid her by deactivating periodically and the last time pulling the chain on the marriage by my actions. That’s why when I see this person who may be slightly avoidant or emotionally unavailable, I wonder whether she’s more my speed. |
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Post by ju on Nov 23, 2019 10:26:45 GMT
@janedoe anxiety is the worst. I used to suffer from depression when I was younger but it often just felt like I was numb to feelings. I actually wake up and the first thing I'm aware of is the lurching pain in my stomach quickly followed by the remembrance of why. So do we react physiologically to our thoughts (which makes sense)? But that doesn't explain why I feel the physiological effect first upon waking. I know emotions are interconnected but I always believe my thoughts were triggering the other responses (in this case symptoms of anxiety). Anxiety sucks!!!
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Post by ju on Nov 26, 2019 12:31:30 GMT
Just to update. I got a random message from my ex, a photo of speakers reduced. He remembered I wanted to buy them as an xmas present I assumed. I messaged back saying what a coincidence, as I was just going through our whole conversation from when we first met on a dating app (beating myself up) when the message came through. As I went back to to the app, he had been online and deleted it all. I was absolutely devastated as he knew I was reading it through, so he purposely trying to hurt me? I asked him why he would do that to me and I said how hurtful it was. He replied back saying I had brought this all on myself and I was playing power and control games! I have never felt so hurt. The worst thing is he has gone ice cold and detached and it confirms to me he never felt anything for me. He said I've blamed him but I haven't, I just tried to explain that the pressure from giving so much support to him over the ex girlfriend situation and him going distant made me feel anxious. To be fair I think that even a secure person would have found that experience tough. I know I'm far from perfect and have held my hands up and said if I could take it back, I would. But he was just blunt and cold. I have blocked him, which I don't like doing and feel guilty but I feel like I'm going crazy and I'm struggling to just function right now.
I'm still going over and over it in my head.
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Post by serenity on Nov 26, 2019 19:36:09 GMT
Sounds a lot like he's projecting his anger and unresolved issues with his ex onto you, and making you his emotional punching bag. Good for you blocking him! You don't deserve to punished for someone else's relationship issues. Nothing you've done looks like a control and power game, and you've assertively communicated how his actions made you feel anxious very well.
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ju
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Post by ju on Nov 26, 2019 20:14:43 GMT
Sounds a lot like he's projecting his anger and unresolved issues with his ex onto you, and making you his emotional punching bag. Good for you blocking him! You don't deserve to punished for someone else's relationship issues. Nothing you've done looks like a control and power game, and you've assertively communicated how his actions made you feel anxious very well. Thank you serenity for your consistent support. The sad thing is, I get why is behaving like this to some extent. He is so involved in replaying his past and feeling like a victim, that he can only see his perspective. It's like self survival for him. What is so hurtful, is the two letters I sent, put no blame on anyone, yet he still says I'm blaming him whilst he tells me it's all my doing. Like he doesn't see what's really written. He deserves happiness and to be loved. |
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Post by serenity on Nov 26, 2019 20:22:39 GMT
Thank you serenity for your consistent support. The sad thing is, I get why is behaving like this to some extent. He is so involved in replaying his past and feeling like a victim, that he can only see his perspective. It's like self survival for him. What is so hurtful, is the two letters I sent, put no blame on anyone, yet he still says I'm blaming him whilst he tells me it's all my doing. Like he doesn't see what's really written. He deserves happiness and to be loved. You deserve happiness and to be loved too, Ju. Someone as caring and supportive as you will find it too <3 |
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Post by alexandra on Nov 26, 2019 23:26:46 GMT
What is so hurtful, is the two letters I sent, put no blame on anyone, yet he still says I'm blaming him whilst he tells me it's all my doing. Like he doesn't see what's really written. He deserves happiness and to be loved. He doesn't see what's really written because it's triggering defensiveness, probably reminiscent of something from his past, and he's on auto-repeat. He can only hear criticism and shuts down without processing anything further :/ Being so badly misunderstood sucks, and is so frustrating, especially when you have good intent and someone else chooses to take it negatively. But as you know, it's often projection... so try not to personalize that hurt from how he has received your letters. Communication difficulties cause so much confusion and conflict in insecurely attached dynamics. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2019 23:55:01 GMT
What is so hurtful, is the two letters I sent, put no blame on anyone, yet he still says I'm blaming him whilst he tells me it's all my doing. Like he doesn't see what's really written. He deserves happiness and to be loved. He doesn't see what's really written because it's triggering defensiveness, probably reminiscent of something from his past, and he's on auto-repeat. He can only hear criticism and shuts down without processing anything further :/ Being so badly misunderstood sucks, and is so frustrating, especially when you have good intent and someone else chooses to take it negatively. But as you know, it's often projection... so try not to personalize that hurt from how he has received your letters. Communication difficulties cause so much confusion and conflict in insecurely attached dynamics. Well said; and I think that the ongoing stress and pain of a contentious and possibly abusove custody battle would be very difficult to see past. I've been through that before and it's an extreme threat to who you are as a person, a parent, it's truly beyond anything Ive ever endured. Extremely triggering, like someone could cut your heart right out. I think it's wise and appropriate to stand back,, accept his position and let go. Not that that is easy, I'm not minimizing the pain of all this. It's just a profoundly difficult situation, volatile and unsafe emotionally for all involved. |
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Post by faithopelove on Nov 27, 2019 0:32:07 GMT
Just to update. I got a random message from my ex, a photo of speakers reduced. He remembered I wanted to buy them as an xmas present I assumed. I messaged back saying what a coincidence, as I was just going through our whole conversation from when we first met on a dating app (beating myself up) when the message came through. As I went back to to the app, he had been online and deleted it all. I was absolutely devastated as he knew I was reading it through, so he purposely trying to hurt me? I asked him why he would do that to me and I said how hurtful it was. He replied back saying I had brought this all on myself and I was playing power and control games! I have never felt so hurt. The worst thing is he has gone ice cold and detached and it confirms to me he never felt anything for me. He said I've blamed him but I haven't, I just tried to explain that the pressure from giving so much support to him over the ex girlfriend situation and him going distant made me feel anxious. To be fair I think that even a secure person would have found that experience tough. I know I'm far from perfect and have held my hands up and said if I could take it back, I would. But he was just blunt and cold. I have blocked him, which I don't like doing and feel guilty but I feel like I'm going crazy and I'm struggling to just function right now. I'm still going over and over it in my head. - I find it very interesting that he contacts YOU about speakers he saw on sale bc he thought of you; however, when you tell him that you were reading messages and obviously thinking of HIM, he twists everything around, blows up and blames you. This guy is not operating fairly- to say the very least. I think you were right to block him and try to move on. Stay on track. I’d stop reading all past reminders of the good days past and remember how he treats you currently. What are you losing here? When I reread your first post I read a description of a guy that is undependable, unreliable, consumed with his own problems, showing no regard for your feelings, shut down and blaming you for everything. When you say he’s perfect in every other way- there are many important ways that he falls very short. That’s important to notice. It’s hard temporarily, but you’re better off moving onward and upward. You deserve to love and be loved, too! |
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