Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 23:16:51 GMT
stayhappy, it's so good that your parents were warm and supportive. Obviously if he is DA he does not have quite the same experience, and is used to going it alone to face stressors, to find comfort, etc. There is a good story in the Healing DA thread that illustrates the "one person psychology" of dismissive avoidance. It is very helpful to understand that. There is also something here somewhere in the general forum about nervous system regulation, and how a stressor can deactivate the social engagement element of us while we problem solve. This is a very strong characteristic in myself and all of my DA friend, and partner. It is a key trait, as I see it. If I have a problem to solve I have little or no desire to connect until it is solved to the extent that makes me feel I have the situation manageable or have a plan to move forward to the next step. It can be the case that the deactivation of the social engagement system becomes problematic for relationships, it can go on too long for our own good, and yet, it is a very strong trait in me and those I know. I know if I don't hear from my DA loved ones they are managing what they need to, and will surface when they feel ready. For me, in intimate relationship, the need for consistency in order to maintain peace in myself, I have had to make adjustments and remind myself to check in with him if I am offline emotionally, even if I don't feel the need or much of a want. It's not personal against him one iota. He understands it well, the total loss of attachment while under duress. It's not an issue if it's just understood. He forgets to touch base if he is under the gun but does respond right away if I reach out. The time that I don't hear back will be something very difficult where he is just needing to narrow his focus and is coping. It's not common. But like I have said, this effort between the two of us came after clashes and misunderstanding and hurt feelings both ways. It's been a problem to overcome. So, even though we are both avoidant, the need for reassurance exists both ways, and also we both can be blind to the ways in which we are the very same. So funny how that works. But that's how insecurity is! Also, I think that perhaps DA men are more sensitive to criticism than women, I do not know if that is a real truth statistically but it's just an observation. He feels sensitive about failing with me in some ways. I had no idea about that until he finally admitted it. So, it took him a long time to really trust and understand that when I approached the issue of reciprocity with communication , that I wasn't criticizing him. Actually, at first I can see that I was critical as I was defended and hurt and did not trust his sincerity with me. But a process of growth by having some failures and problem solving, over time, he totally gets it. I love him! I am insecure sometimes! I need his help sometimes to just feel important to him and he likes to do that for me, since he knows for sure I don't think lowly of him- I think highly of him.  He feels insecure and appreciates reassurance for some of his vulnerabilities also, and we do agree that we like to help each other be happy and to feel good and secure. I wonder... as a mother of multiple children, I am used to answering bids all the time, knowing that my kids need me, they look to me for help and reassurance and connection. Maybe men are not as attuned to that, especially men who have not raised kids. I'm not sure. I hope things continue to grow for you and your partner too, it sounds like you do make progress.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2019 1:57:16 GMT
Thank you very much caro. May we all just keep moving toward what we need  |
|
|
|
Post by hannah99 on Dec 17, 2019 18:31:48 GMT
This is still a bit of a problem with us. Some days he's better than others but I can go 24+ hours without a response. Regular dates and never let's me down though, so I'm starting to be ok with it and not get anxious in between.
Am I right to relax about it though? Sometimes I worry I'm a walk over.
|
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Dec 17, 2019 19:46:08 GMT
This is still a bit of a problem with us. Some days he's better than others but I can go 24+ hours without a response. Regular dates and never let's me down though, so I'm starting to be ok with it and not get anxious in between. Am I right to relax about it though? Sometimes I worry I'm a walk over. This depends entirely on whether or not you ever directly and honestly spoke to him about it. Did you get around to doing that? If you didn't actually do it, it's still a problem because you didn't communicate. If you did talk to him about it, then he's showing you how he is lifestyle-wise (so, it isn't indicating anything about how he feels about you), and you have to figure out if it's compatible enough with what you want. |
|
|
|
Post by hannah99 on Dec 17, 2019 21:11:52 GMT
I've only really made little jokes about it.
|
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Dec 17, 2019 21:46:34 GMT
I've only really made little jokes about it. Then it is on you, not on him, to address. It doesn't show you're a push over, but it does show you can drastically improve your own communication. It's not really about texting. So far he sounds like a good guy, so I hope you'll talk to him about it and not push it down until you blind side him. You'll feel better if you talk to him about it, I can almost guarantee it. |
|
|
|
Post by hannah99 on Dec 17, 2019 22:14:49 GMT
You're right. It's just thinking carefully about what I want to say and finding the right time.
|
|
|
|
Post by faithopelove on Dec 17, 2019 23:07:45 GMT
Not exclusively, but definitely a big AP fear-driver, yes. Yes. And I had absolutely no idea how much hard work I was until I got here. I'll share something about myself, internet forum and all.... I was very well known for my "Quirkyness" at school. People 6 years above and below me knew who I was. Second year of high school, there was a talent quest. I was asked by some girls to join in. I did, and, if you can imagine the set of a show that was known here as "Perfect Match". I was on the other side of the screen, ogre-ish. I had no idea. The second it happened, I knew I'd been had in the worst possible way and I was devastated, and I had to hide the lot to retain the little dignity I had left. I'd been copping it for years, but this just felt like the end. I was so incredibly desperate for affection, and totally unable to communicate, as well as having no clue about what connection entailed. I decided I would never give anybody that power again. The next person that came anywhere near me was my first wife, some years later. So, here we are, somebody still desperate for connection and affection, yet terrified to the core that I'll be made a fool out of and abandoned which ended up happening in that situation.So, yes, under all this veneer of easy goingness and jocularity has been this nightmare. If I actually tell somebody what I want, show them who I really am, they'll run. I said to Miss EU today that I needed a hug. She didn't make me feel like a fool. We arranged to get together on Wednesday. I've never said that before. There is progress. - Sorry you went through that 😞 I’m happy to hear though you are allowing yourself to be vulnerable and asking for what you need from your current partner. Keep doing that!! That way it allows someone a fair chance to come through for you and shatter negative mindsets that no one ever will. My DA has SUCH a hard time expressing his needs- thinking he has to go at everything alone. If he only could believe or know how much I am willing to be there for him- I wish he would trust me, trust other people in general enough, to express what he needs. Keep moving in that direction 💙 |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2019 23:51:43 GMT
Yes. And I had absolutely no idea how much hard work I was until I got here. I'll share something about myself, internet forum and all.... I was very well known for my "Quirkyness" at school. People 6 years above and below me knew who I was. Second year of high school, there was a talent quest. I was asked by some girls to join in. I did, and, if you can imagine the set of a show that was known here as "Perfect Match". I was on the other side of the screen, ogre-ish. I had no idea. The second it happened, I knew I'd been had in the worst possible way and I was devastated, and I had to hide the lot to retain the little dignity I had left. I'd been copping it for years, but this just felt like the end. I was so incredibly desperate for affection, and totally unable to communicate, as well as having no clue about what connection entailed. I decided I would never give anybody that power again. The next person that came anywhere near me was my first wife, some years later. So, here we are, somebody still desperate for connection and affection, yet terrified to the core that I'll be made a fool out of and abandoned which ended up happening in that situation.So, yes, under all this veneer of easy goingness and jocularity has been this nightmare. If I actually tell somebody what I want, show them who I really am, they'll run. I said to Miss EU today that I needed a hug. She didn't make me feel like a fool. We arranged to get together on Wednesday. I've never said that before. There is progress. - Sorry you went through that 😞 I’m happy to hear though you are allowing yourself to be vulnerable and asking for what from your current partner. Keep doing that!! The way someone can come through for us and shatter negative mindsets that no one ever will, is to be open and give someone a fair chance to be there for us. My DA has SUCH a hard time expressing his needs- thinking he has to go at everything alone. If he only could believe or know how much I am willing to be there for him- I wish he would trust me, trust other people in general enough, to express what he needs. Keep moving in that direction 💙 Faith, I think you might be one of only two people here in relationship with a DA, so I'll share on this a bit. I keep getting to deeper layers of my attachment wound. I now have a sense of the deep unconscious avoidance of connection. I did a kind eyes exercise with a person who is warm and inviting and feels safe to me. We were gazing at each other's eyes and it felt good, and she took my hands, and then it was fun because she was like mg friend dancing with me and her eyes were twinkling and smiling, I felt like a little girl with my best friend. She is not my close friend in real life, she is a therapeutic support. Suddenly at a certain point I became overwhelmed with such a deep sadness that I felt my eyes cry instantly and my face was frowning. It was intensely painful. She didn't take me into that sadness and instead started dancing with our arms again, and she let me close my eyes to rest and retreat. I was ok just holding her hands and closing my eyes but it did shut me down. It was not expected, and then I had to have some upregulating work. I did not know that could happen. I have sadness and connection over coupled. I didn't feel fear or panic just desolation. So now I have a sense of original desolation that caused me to stop looking, and stop being seen. There are other complicated over coupling and under coupling experiences in me, but that was a deep one. I've felt sad before doing kind eyes exercises but not as deep and hard as that, it was too much. I'll be working on it in somatic therapy for a bit. Another is a deep sense of shame coupled with sharing my inner states. Of course I have avoided doing that most my life, but now getting to a deeper layer of somatic awareness the shame has been overwhelming, and my therapist says that it's just connected to being so visible after trying to remain invisible and being unseen through development. It's all so uncomfortable. I am doing ok and I am working through it. So I understand on a deeper layer what I am trying to avoid by avoiding intimacy. It's been so much work to get to this point. I wish I had advice on how your boyfriend could make progress but I just don't. I just want to say that it's so deep that he's not choosing it- it's like it is choosing him and locking him up. That kind of sadness, I totally understand why my system shut down around it. So desolate. Hate it. BUT. I am also experiencing the somatic experience of warm fuzzy connection too- waking up the pain wakes up the joy too. I can't believe what I felt recently in my body when I was talking with a close support. We are doing somatic work together. I felt a warm tingling all down my arms and legs. It so happens she is anxious preoccupied. I love her (!), she is so kind. And she says she feels safe and taken care of with me so that feels great. Her best friend is a male who is dismissive, so she understands a lot about me because of her best friend and the sharing they do to co-regulate. They actively do somatic work together. She and I talk a lot about our ends of the spectrum and find a lot of common ground actually- similar intimacy and communication and "being seen" issues with opposite (!) consequences for each of us. Fascinating!!! It is hard for her after we leave connection. It is hard for me going into it. So interesting. I am ready to leave off, content and ready to gain space, as she is avoiding saying goodbye as her anxiety increased and she realizes she will ruminate on everything she said and did and find fault with herself (as I would go and shut down and stop thinking about it to regulate.) Incredibly enlightening. If you can somehow suggest SE therapy with attachment work to your guy - I am not a big advocate of influencing or control but without SE I just would not know how to go about any of this. |
|
|
|
Post by faithopelove on Dec 18, 2019 3:22:38 GMT
mrob - Sorry you went through that 😞 I’m happy to hear though you are allowing yourself to be vulnerable and asking for what from your current partner. Keep doing that!! The way someone can come through for us and shatter negative mindsets that no one ever will, is to be open and give someone a fair chance to be there for us. My DA has SUCH a hard time expressing his needs- thinking he has to go at everything alone. If he only could believe or know how much I am willing to be there for him- I wish he would trust me, trust other people in general enough, to express what he needs. Keep moving in that direction 💙 Faith, I think you might be one of only two people here in relationship with a DA, so I'll share on this a bit. I keep getting to deeper layers of my attachment wound. I now have a sense of the deep unconscious avoidance of connection. I did a kind eyes exercise with a person who is warm and inviting and feels safe to me. We were gazing at each other's eyes and it felt good, and she took my hands, and then it was fun because she was like mg friend dancing with me and her eyes were twinkling and smiling, I felt like a little girl with my best friend. She is not my close friend in real life, she is a therapeutic support. Suddenly at a certain point I became overwhelmed with such a deep sadness that I felt my eyes cry instantly and my face was frowning. It was intensely painful. She didn't take me into that sadness and instead started dancing with our arms again, and she let me close my eyes to rest and retreat. I was ok just holding her hands and closing my eyes but it did shut me down. It was not expected, and then I had to have some upregulating work. I did not know that could happen. I have sadness and connection over coupled. I didn't feel fear or panic just desolation. So now I have a sense of original desolation that caused me to stop looking, and stop being seen. There are other complicated over coupling and under coupling experiences in me, but that was a deep one. I've felt sad before doing kind eyes exercises but not as deep and hard as that, it was too much. I'll be working on it in somatic therapy for a bit. Another is a deep sense of shame coupled with sharing my inner states. Of course I have avoided doing that most my life, but now getting to a deeper layer of somatic awareness the shame has been overwhelming, and my therapist says that it's just connected to being so visible after trying to remain invisible and being unseen through development. It's all so uncomfortable. I am doing ok and I am working through it. So I understand on a deeper layer what I am trying to avoid by avoiding intimacy. It's been so much work to get to this point. I wish I had advice on how your boyfriend could make progress but I just don't. I just want to say that it's so deep that he's not choosing it- it's like it is choosing him and locking him up. That kind of sadness, I totally understand why my system shut down around it. So desolate. Hate it. BUT. I am also experiencing the somatic experience of warm fuzzy connection too- waking up the pain wakes up the joy too. I can't believe what I felt recently in my body when I was talking with a close support. We are doing somatic work together. I felt a warm tingling all down my arms and legs. It so happens she is anxious preoccupied. I love her (!), she is so kind. And she says she feels safe and taken care of with me so that feels great. Her best friend is a male who is dismissive, so she understands a lot about me because of her best friend and the sharing they do to co-regulate. They actively do somatic work together. She and I talk a lot about our ends of the spectrum and find a lot of common ground actually- similar intimacy and communication and "being seen" issues with opposite (!) consequences for each of us. Fascinating!!! It is hard for her after we leave connection. It is hard for me going into it. So interesting. I am ready to leave off, content and ready to gain space, as she is avoiding saying goodbye as her anxiety increased and she realizes she will ruminate on everything she said and did and find fault with herself (as I would go and shut down and stop thinking about it to regulate.) Incredibly enlightening. If you can somehow suggest SE therapy with attachment work to your guy - I am not a big advocate of influencing or control but without SE I just would not know how to go about any of this. @inmourning - Hey Thank you so much for sharing that. I’ve read about the kind eye exercise on this forum, but the way you described it was colorful and beautiful and helped me see some of your internal struggle. I definitely recognize this struggle in my guy. I love how you’re confronting your fears/triggers and making progress! And with an AP! Lol There really is so much common ground yet w the different set of push/pull so it’s a good person to practice with and learn tolerance at the opposite end of the spectrum. You have a great handle on the AP and DA sides- similar fears but different ways of coping and protecting/getting what we need. The way you described the departing...my DA is ready for space at that point and my anxiety is on the rise. The coming in and going out anxiety- all of that is how we both are. Even something simple like back pain my guy would usually handle on his own and not seek help, but this past week he actually broke down and went to the doctor. I would love if he was open to counseling, but I don’t think he’d consider it? I haven’t brought it up in quite some time bc I don’t want him to feel criticized by me. It’s even a lot for him to ask me for a back or foot rub, and he will now, but he feels guilty receiving that. He asks, protests, finally accepts and when I’m done he genuinely thanks me as if I did something extraordinary for him! For all the distancing and tough exterior he can portray, there’s also this very sensitive and vulnerable side. That side is very endearing to me. The things you write about, he refers to...feeling pain/feeling alive. That is hard for me to understand bc I always feel alive and I don’t shut down like him (at all!) but it reminds me of what you describe. It’s ironic you called your friend kind bc my guy recently said that about me and said he missed someone being kind to him. I feel like he wants love, kindness and support, even craves it, but has the hardest time accepting and believing in it. Im truly glad for you that you’re making so much progress. Thanks again for sharing so much insight 💕 |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2019 3:40:23 GMT
faithopelove you are very welcome. It's good he got help for his back and he is accepting massage from you. My partner doesn't have SE therapy but he is in therapy. Not for attachment specifically but on personal issues and we don't discuss it much. I am very very emotionally open with him and share about my SE process quite a bit. Today when we were intimate we held eye contact a long long time and that's a change He kind of tags onto my awareness and changes and seems to come along. He still is closed by any standards but he shares his fears and vulnerabilities with me. His insecurities too. His emotions, what he recognizes about how he uses shut down and busy behavior to cope with sadness. His goal is to let go and find more balance in his life. We shall see lol I accept where it is and focus on my process. Over time we have come a long way, I don't worry about the future as we are not even guaranteed tomorrow. I have a lot on my plate to handle and so does he, but our dynamic has evolved a lot. I still struggle with trust sometimes after all this time- not about jealously or cheating or whatever but just about whether or not I can emotionally put my eggs in anyone's basket. So I do pull in but I get over it. He responds well to just being, not discussing, the best. He will discuss with me but his most relaxed way of being happy is to just be content in affectionate company with me. Soul baring discussions are initiated by me but only when it's something intense for me- then he will meet me, and join in. But other wise it's just natural interaction and more authenticity and openness than Ive ever had with anyone.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2019 3:52:46 GMT
By the way I was so surprised that my anxious friend had escalating anxiety as we were winding down our time. We experienced deep attunement and I thought she would be winding down to close and depart like I was. I asked her how she felt and she said her anxiety was growing and she described what happens after goodbye with the rumination. Then, I realized that happens with my male friend who is very AP- he almost ALWAYS texts after we say goodbye to apologize in case he was annoying in some way! I have never understood that parting would cause anxiety. I always assure him and tell him I look forward to seeing him again. But inside he must be feeling upset, now that she described this to me, I can see that. I have never felt that way, parting is smooth and I move to the next thing in front of me.
It's just really interesting to have candid and emotionally vulnerable talks with someone working on somatic stuff and attachment stuff. I really enjoy the differences and similarities between us. I feel tenderly toward her. I feel tenderly toward my closer friends too but they are dismissive and more guarded, I have been able to pull them out more with all this progress but the anxious girl is so articulate and expressive and clear with what she is feeling, and also very empathetic with mine. Her deep friendship with a DA male in therapy gives her great insight into me, coupled with compassion because she is in the group with me that levels the playing field- we are all suffering with attachment wounds and we are equal and there to support each other in the somatic work. It's actually a brilliant idea- somatic group therapy for attachment. It's a private little thing my therapist facilitates.
|
|
|
|
Post by faithopelove on Dec 18, 2019 4:39:00 GMT
By the way I was so surprised that my anxious friend had escalating anxiety as we were winding down our time. We experienced deep attunement and I thought she would be winding down to close and depart like I was. I asked her how she felt and she said her anxiety was growing and she described what happens after goodbye with the rumination. Then, I realized that happens with my male friend who is very AP- he almost ALWAYS texts after we say goodbye to apologize in case he was annoying in some way! I have never understood that parting would cause anxiety. I always assure him and tell him I look forward to seeing him again. But inside he must be feeling upset, now that she described this to me, I can see that. I have never felt that way, parting is smooth and I move to the next thing in front of me. It's just really interesting to have candid and emotionally vulnerable talks with someone working on somatic stuff and attachment stuff. I really enjoy the differences and similarities between us. I feel tenderly toward her. I feel tenderly toward my closer friends too but they are dismissive and more guarded, I have been able to pull them out more with all this progress but the anxious girl is so articulate and expressive and clear with what she is feeling, and also very empathetic with mine. Her deep friendship with a DA male in therapy gives her great insight into me, coupled with compassion because she is in the group with me that levels the playing field- we are all suffering with attachment wounds and we are equal and there to support each other in the somatic work. It's actually a brilliant idea- somatic group therapy for attachment. It's a private little thing my therapist facilitates. @inmourning - all positive and wonderful things you’re working out! Yes, time and space are my triggers so if broken down, parting would be the very beginning of that time and space. Interesting to notice... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2019 4:45:23 GMT
faithopelove- maybe you could spring for a few sessions of SE for yourself to address that one trigger. Changes happen pretty quick actually. If it helped you you could share your own experience with him perhaps, to plant a seed. Or beg him pretty please to go because you went and you love him. Lol dream big.
|
|
|
|
Post by lovebunny on Dec 18, 2019 22:44:10 GMT
Ugh, I'm dealing with a "bad texter" too! Possibly she's not really that bad, I'm just not used to her subdued style. My exes were all heavier texters than me. I just met her a few nights ago through mutual friends, and we exchanged numbers and we have been texting to set up a dinner date (today I made rezzies, so it's on.) It works against me that I think she's really cute, sending me into anxious attachment.
Now, I don't like tons of texting, either. But after she initially texted me to officially ask me out the night we met, I've done all the initiating to solidify the date/time. My inner monologue when she doesn't respond for hours goes something like,
"She's just not that into me. She just wanted to make out with someone when she was drunk, and now that she's sober, she's looked at my social media and thinks I'm not as cute as she thought. She's going to flake out. She definitely doesn't want a committed relationship. This is destined to end in despair. Love is a lie and I will be alone forever."
I'm just gonna try to mirror her and reserve judgement until after our date.
|
|
He feels insecure and appreciates reassurance for some of his vulnerabilities also, and we do agree that we like to help each other be happy and to feel good and secure. 
