The Softboi

yes i think it's parallel to what @bohemianraspberry said. the red flag is when they're into your brains because it provides them entertainment. when i date smart men, they are entertained because they now get challenged in ways they don't - i'm not saying i'm smarter than them, just different. And they value it more for novelty than just really valuing me and my perspectives. the latter is also true arguably, but the former (novelty) is somewhat stronger and the key ingredient to attraction. like what alexandra said, there's idealization in that. also, there's some fantasy going on - they imagine that being together means that it'll always be entertaining conversations and being stimulated, but reality is when we argue, I can hold my own very well and it isn't that great for them afterall. that is when the idealization ends, and they think i'm just combative. the truth is that i'm just as logical as they are (which they did not perceive as so and as a threat because they see first the difference in ways of thinking), and that logic does not always work in their favor.

i speak only from my own experience, so i say men because i've never dated women. my sense is that they want smart women on their side and for their own use, but they don't like it when the smarts can be turned against them, and quite easily so. the one thing that did happen with my ex is that we had very low trust of each other. he knows im smart so he tries to hide things from me and avoid giving me information because at some point, he thinks i'll use it against him. i know he's smart and can protect himself way better than i can myself (he's older and much successful in business), and that always worries me that i'm being taken advantage of. there's an underlying distrust there already, although the intelligence is what attracted us to each other. precisely because of idealization without a deep understanding and acceptance of who we are as people.

i agree with alot that you said here. i think it's exactly that - they like the mental sparring because they think it's interesting and fun for them.

I'm abit confused at what you just said - are you saying that you mentally spar/mind games because you've decided it's not going anywhere? when you said mind games, do you mean things like how long do you take to reply, how to respond to requests for commitment etc etc? 

My version of sparring is simply discussion around perspectives and ideas. i do it for a living, it's part of who i am (I'm an academic), so for me it's "normal" to look at a situation and analyze it from various angles. it's not mind games to me, it's just...talking about work and life and approaches to things.

@shiningstar no, I actually detest mind games. I'm saying that if I am sparring I am in a quick process of evaluating and releasing. He's the one that wants to play games, I've seen it enough to know. I'd also say that if a guy says to me "I like how you think" he thinks I've aligned with him somehow.

If I sense that something is off, I will engage to see where he takes it, spar to feel it out, and then make my decision and communicate that. I do not enjoy trailing things on, and playing games with not texting or whatever. I just get done and make that clear.

I don't take a long time with a person if I'm not digging it. That's part of the issue with my avoidance because I don't give anyone a chance. The men who have been attracted to that are also very unavailable. I would say, that any man that has been attracted to me is as unavailable as I am.

This softboi type, has never engaged me, I am not the one for him for sure. But the intellectual, smart guy into mental games.... Ive seen more than my share of that aside from this weird softboi type.

I don't understand, can you let me know if you are responding to something I have said, specifically? My issue as an avoidant, as Ive said, is that I don't give things a chance but I'm also pretty sure from my experiences , looking back, that the men attracted to me were gamey and looking for a challenge.

I also like a quiet life tho, not much intensity and the long deep intellectual conversations kill me. I like to just enjoy simple things and don't like to talk much about ideas. I like experiences. Side by side, where the experience is the main attraction and we just share it and be happy. Conversation leaves me tired.

alexandra I am saying that if a man likes the way I think, he's unavailable, because my unavailability shows. It's a specific thing, but others may want to consider it for themselves, to see if they are actually putting out unavailable vibes behind intellectually stimulating conversation. It can be a way to hide.

What I'm doing in this thread is weighing in as a dismissive- saying I've seen this intellectual sparring too. This thread is about a chronically unavailable type called "softboi" and the intellectual interaction is part of his approach apparently. So, I'm commenting on the intellectual mind game thing as a pattern that I've seen as a very unavailable women. That attracted men who love the intellectual game. But I'm betting were very unavailable themselves (who else does a dismissive attract? We attract the emotionally unavailable because we Are Unavailable.)

And, it may be that softbois are attracted to unavailable women who get caught in the trap, because they are lacking emotional availability themselves but are unaware of that.

@janedoe, Being a cerebral, it may be that you need to be "chaste" intellectually lol! But seriously- what i meant is perhaps de-emphasize intellectual conversations the way that someone too sex-driven would need to de-emphasize kissing and petting, if they want to get to know someone's other facets and not be blinded by sex.

maybe you could observe the intellect, appreciate it, but not engage it so heavily while getting to know. Just like I would need to appreciate the sexuality and alpha appeal of a man but not sit on his lap haha! Do you see what I mean though? Don't over engage what brings you to your knees and makes you want more. Let it be a pleasing observation and direct your attention to other values and qualities. Like abstaining from premature sex (never have ever done that once with someone who made it past my early exit. I'm not speaking from experience but from an Ideal that I would have in place if I had to do it again, now that I know myself better.