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Post by serenity on Feb 11, 2020 0:16:49 GMT
Why do you want someone who doesn't want you back though? Who doesn't adore you and fight to be with you? Who frequently threatened to abandon you and said he feels no spark with you? Who says he wants nothing to do with you?
Is that the man you pictured yourself with? Someone who doesn't love or want you?
There's someone out there who will think you are the light of their life. He's not that person.
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Post by lostinlove on Feb 11, 2020 0:22:21 GMT
He told me every night before we went to bed he was so lucky to have me and he never wanted to lose a good woman like me. That he was so lucky that someone understood he was new to dating and wasnt that great at it.
Then after we picked out my engagement ring he told me every night he never wanted to lose me and couldnt wait to marry me. He treated me well unless we were having conflict.
So he loved me and wanted me. Until he didnt. But still, I don't understand what he thinks he wants and will find.
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Post by doctora on Feb 11, 2020 0:32:06 GMT
The thing is, he wasnt gone much. We spent alot of time together. Although he did have alot of alone time when he wasnt working at the farm during the day while I was gone at work, but we spent almost every weekend or evening together. He would only leave when there was conflict. Or I would. Because I didnt give him enough space he would say. I never really "challenged" him. Anytime he would leave or kick me out for a couple days I was just so happy we were back together that I never said anything. I think we were probably very codependent though. He seems like he absolutely wants nothing to do with me. Blocking me everywhere. He is still friends with my friends and family on Facebook though, which is odd and lately has been "liking" their posts more supposedly. When we were together he told me he never goes back to exs or even considers it. But his longest relationship before me was 3 months. Do you think with us being longer, theres a better chance he will come back? His last email to me said "I dont ever see us getting back together, and I have zero interest in ever dating you or being friends in the future". I think since I was his first "long term" relationship, he thinks he can do better and find someone he wont have any conflict with. And maybe he will. Yet I always welcomed him back and wanted to work on things when he wanted out, and I dont think everyone will do that or put up with that if he continues to "just want out". I think he just threatened to leave or wanted away so he could find someone new. I try and tell myself that even though I was really anxious, he wont find someone as supportive as I was, especially with his farming and long hours away, unpredictable schedules, and dealing with him not knowing what to do in relationships since hes not experienced. His lack of deep emotional connection. You guys dated for around 2 years total right? What were your relationships like before him? Were you on track to get married and have kids with anyone else? Yes, he may think he can do "better" because he does not have a realistic concept of what a healthy, sustainable relationship takes. And he kind of hit the jackpot with someone as AP as you, thats why it lasted as long as it did - because it doesnt seem like women who are more secure would tolerate or work with his BS as much. And if he meets another AP, she'll drive him nuts just as much as you, but maybe she won't have the same good qualities, and you may become the phantom ex. I have a lot of experience with this by the way - in my own situation, I simultaneously became the phantom ex while being the one he kept abandoning during/after conflict and not growing up for. Weird, right? Time and distance allows them to get nostalgic. I think EVERYONE on this forum may totally disagree with me, but I actually have had some positive experience with this - have you considered sending him a letter/note with a link on information about his attachment style? If done in the right way - and I don't think it's necessarily a good idea now - it can lead to some second guessing on their part. I'll be honest with you, I don't think you're in a solid enough spot to do this, because I'm not actually sure YOU are seeing things clearly. But, if you really think he has no idea that he is contributing to these issues, and you have nothing to lose, you can figure out what you could briefly say that would catch his attention, and try to let him in on what you've learned about DAs. I can basically guarantee that this will NOT bring him back and not make him want to work on it. What it can do, however, is give him pause later down the road when you've been long gone, or maybe after his next relationship fails. I can tell you from my own experience that it was validating and important for me that my ex at least was confronted with this - what he did with this info is his business. The only thing that tells me this may be good for you is because the fact that he may not see it's his problem is eating away at you. But if you have nothing to lose, and you wanna kind of stick it to him and "defend" yourself and make him see it wasn't just you, I see some potential use in doing so. But I'd recommend doing it in a text/letter format, something non threatening, non needy. More like, food for thought. But be prepared to be burned, or not get a response, etc. One of the only reasons why I also think this is appropriate is because you guys dated for a while and did discuss marriage and kids. |
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Post by lostinlove on Feb 11, 2020 0:34:15 GMT
14 months we dated.
I was never on track to get married or have kids with anyone else. I never seriously dated before this either, really. But I do know it was all people that weren't totally "right" either. Another ex dumped me kind of like this and I begged and begged for him back. This was like 10 years ago. He dated a girl I work with and she thought he was too odd, so she left him. At the time I kind of cared less because we were only together a few months, and he left me when I chose to stay home from meeting his parents because my mom had just been diagnosed with terminal cancer. Then I chose not to date the whole time she was sick.
It does usually get worse? I try to tell myself the stuff he held so much resentment over for days was small compared to what he will inevitably have to deal with in life. The stresses that we were dealing with.
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Post by lostinlove on Feb 11, 2020 0:43:30 GMT
doctora- actually, after I first had posted on here, I did send him an email about anxious-avoidant relationships and I think it explained us, and unfortunately neither of us probably realized it, but was hoping we could work on ourselves. He ignored it. He is kind of arrogant. I still think he thinks he can find much better. The email probably reinforced for him why he shouldn't be with me because I admitted in it that I'm anxious. And hes too arrogant to believe anything would be wrong with him And maybe he will find better. In the relationship he always told me he "I am happy with who I am" when I told him we can always work on ourselves and being in a relationship we need to always be improving and working together.
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Post by alexandra on Feb 11, 2020 0:52:40 GMT
doctora, we have threads discussing the pros and cons of sharing attachment style information and how to do it. However, it is violating boundaries to send that to someone who has explicitly said they want nothing to do with you (doubly so who has indicated they don't think they have a problem). It's just going to make him more angry in this case, assuming he didn't block her and could receive it.
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Post by alexandra on Feb 11, 2020 0:53:47 GMT
lostinlove, he can't do "better" unless you also believe he can. That has everything to do with how you view yourself and nothing to do with him.
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Post by doctora on Feb 11, 2020 0:54:44 GMT
Ok, so exactly. He either ignored it or read it and chose not to respond. You did EVERYTHING you could do. Theres a cheesy song lyrics I like - you don't have to give up to let go. For now, at least. Let it go, you've done everything. Lots of people think its better to not have any hope. I say, who cares? You shouldn't always try to control what your heart wants, just understand it, and if you want to keep hoping for him to realize something, that's OK. As long as you keep processing what has happened.
Do you have a good therapist who works with attachment stuff? How much reading have you been doing, reading articles? Would be so good if you could soothe yourself, keep reinforcing that you are NOT to blame for his treatment of you, for his lack of response. Yes, if you were with someone more secure, you probably wouldn't have acted as anxious. You also, probably, would not have been as attracted. Who knows? You need to start working on your own healing ASAP. You see how you responded to that guy 10 years ago? You begged and begged. This is part of a larger pattern for you, and if you can see the silver lining, it's this: imagine yourself in 1 full year from now, not contacting your ex, and having worked on yourself. You're going to be SOOOO much better for it, its not even funny.
Another thing, is that in order for a relationship to EVER be good, YOU need to be secure. You will not attract the right man into your life if you are not. You can always be a little anxious, it's not THAT bad, like I said before, it can come with some gifts....but you can't be on the far end of the AP spectrum and have a healthy love life, you won't be attracted to or attract the right people.
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Post by doctora on Feb 11, 2020 1:03:39 GMT
doctora , we have threads discussing the pros and cons of sharing attachment style information and how to do it. However, it is violating boundaries to send that to someone who has explicitly said they want nothing to do with you (doubly so who has indicated they don't think they have a problem). It's just going to make him more angry in this case, assuming he didn't block her and could receive it. Yep, I know, but I still just speak from experience. After I realized some of what my ex was doing could be considered emotional abuse I remember 'forcing' him to sit down with me and I would point out parts of a book I had underlined. We ended up laughing about it later (it wasn't all bad - inconsistency is really big in these relationships). Did it do anything? Maybe cumulatively with all the other stuff, I don't think its possible for him to take a sober look at how things panned out now and blame me. Regardless, it made ME feel better at the time, and that's what I'm concerned with - self concept and self-protection. He had made me feel crazy, anxious, needy, too much, blamed me for the way he would behave. It was important for me that I tell him that I saw his contribution one way or the other, regardless of whether it helped us reconcile or not. I wanted him to KNOW that I knew it wasn't all my fault, and that I thought lots of his deactivation strategies were just that - BS. So again, if it helps with OPs wellbeing, I think that's what matters. If it doesn't, then don't do it. It seems like she already did, and not surprisingly he ignored it or maybe it made him angry. But facts are facts, and who knows. Lots of the growth for DAs happens, if it ever happens, in periods of pain, nostalgia and retrospect. It's like leaving a little time capsule for them to open when they are ready. |
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Post by lostinlove on Feb 11, 2020 1:04:05 GMT
I felt secure going in. But somehow my insecurities really started pouring out. I cant totally think of the things that triggered it though. I think I became too emotionally dependent on him too.
He was not that bad avoidant I dont think. It was ONLY when there was conflict. He wanted lots of space, because "lots of space is how I deal with conflict", while I tried pulling him back. And because I wouldnt give him the amount of space he wanted he would want to break up. Or if I didnt handle it how he seemed to want to. I remember always telling him he needed to listen to my side of things too and to compromise and not hold so much resentment and grudges. But he would hold so much resentment for days it would seem like. We seemed to go to bed mad at each other alot, so then problems would continue into the next day. He always would say "I'm tired I'm going to bed, were not discussing this".
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Post by lostinlove on Feb 11, 2020 1:07:03 GMT
I do remember saying to him "I feel like your emotionally abusing me" or "you display some narcissist behaviors at times", or "you remind me so much of my father". He would just laugh and say "uh huh". So obviously I knew something wasnt always right.
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Post by doctora on Feb 11, 2020 1:13:59 GMT
I felt secure going in. But somehow my insecurities really started pouring out. I cant totally think of the things that triggered it though. I think I became too emotionally dependent on him too. He was not that bad avoidant I dont think. It was ONLY when there was conflict. He wanted lots of space, because "lots of space is how I deal with conflict", while I tried pulling him back. And because I wouldnt give him the amount of space he wanted he would want to break up. Or if I didnt handle it how he seemed to want to. I remember always telling him he needed to listen to my side of things too and to compromise and not hold so much resentment and grudges. But he would hold so much resentment for days it would seem like. We seemed to go to bed mad at each other alot, so then problems would continue into the next day. He always would say "I'm tired I'm going to bed, were not discussing this". Yes, THIS. How couples handle conflict is literally what determines their success. You can have everything else in order, but if you can't manage inevitable conflict, the relationship will DIE. I remember reading that the difference between couples who make it and those who don't is not how many conflicts they have, or the necessarily the intensity of them, it's the ability to learn how to turn down the intensity dial with time, learning how to self-soothe, and learning how to REPAIR WITHIN A REASONABLE TIME PERIOD- which does not mean holding a grudge for days over something small. And it doesn't mean you should be expected to self-soothe while he holds a grudge for days. Don't misinterpret, please. Again, if you take a little departure from the whole attachment theory lens (which is always there) and just look at marriage research in general, conflict management, repair attempts, etc., are probably the crux of what determines relationship success and satisfaction. This goes nearly without exception. |
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Post by serenity on Feb 11, 2020 2:00:57 GMT
Ok, so exactly. He either ignored it or read it and chose not to respond. You did EVERYTHING you could do. Theres a cheesy song lyrics I like - you don't have to give up to let go. For now, at least. Let it go, you've done everything. Lots of people think its better to not have any hope. I say, who cares? You shouldn't always try to control what your heart wants, just understand it, and if you want to keep hoping for him to realize something, that's OK. As long as you keep processing what has happened. I think a lot of us on this forum warn against toxic hope/hopefulness because its a side effect of intermittent reinforcement and forming trauma bonds with avoidant partners. When you're still bonded and engaged in intermittent reinforcement, its hard to properly see how much you've normalised the neglect and lack of relationship security. You rely on hope that has little or no foundation, weighed up against the evidence. You settle for anxiety and stress instead of feelings of security and satisfaction. This article is a really good reminder of how these relationships keep us hooked, and the role of toxic hope: tealswan.com/resources/articles/intermittent-reinforcement-why-you-cant-leave-the-relationship-r210/ |
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Post by Dualcitizen on Feb 11, 2020 2:48:19 GMT
I felt secure going in. But somehow my insecurities really started pouring out. I cant totally think of the things that triggered it though. I think I became too emotionally dependent on him too. He was not that bad avoidant I dont think. It was ONLY when there was conflict. He wanted lots of space, because "lots of space is how I deal with conflict", while I tried pulling him back. And because I wouldnt give him the amount of space he wanted he would want to break up. Or if I didnt handle it how he seemed to want to. I remember always telling him he needed to listen to my side of things too and to compromise and not hold so much resentment and grudges. But he would hold so much resentment for days it would seem like. We seemed to go to bed mad at each other alot, so then problems would continue into the next day. He always would say "I'm tired I'm going to bed, were not discussing this". Either way "space" for longer than say a few hours or a day over a minor issue is a LOT of space and isn't really congruent to a secure attachment. I like to talk to people about issues personally and be heard, not retract in a "flight" response and go sit somewhere. Now it may well be the case, you texted him a tonne over the course of hours or a day out of anxiety, which is obviously something you may have to work upon. All people need some sort of space, even daily, you're own time to do a hobby, rest etc, or a weekend to yourself to go do something you love, once a month as an example (night with the boys/girls) etc Pulling away for a week, 2 weeks etc is unhealthy behaviour clearly. Or not seeing someone you've been dating and having sex with for months, like having breaks of a month in between seeing each other. And I would seriously rethink how "good" he was communication wise, along with yourself. Sounds very codependent and fantasy bondish in commentary, and things said, promises made, but no nitty gritty on the real feelings/emotions and things being resolved in other areas. Just pull backs and distancing and push-pull intermittent reinforcement. The guy was doing it at month 3-4 of your relationship, but it continued for 10 more months afterwards! |
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Post by lostinlove on Feb 11, 2020 9:38:56 GMT
It was never more than 2 or 3 days. During that time though he would ignore me until he basically cooled down.
But he did seem to "punish" me alot. If he was mad about something he would try to back out of trips or plans we had. And then last minute decide "I guess we can still go".
I think his time off was to see if he would miss me or maybe if I would try fighting for him back. His last ex after they dated for 3 months she asked where the relationship was going since it seemed so superficial and what his thoughts were, and his reply was "I dont know I need a week away to see if I miss you enough or not". And he didn't miss her enough I guess to stay with her, but pleaded with her to stay friends. Funny/sad story. When her dad died, she had to leave state on a Thursday. Well she called him when she got where she was going to tell him what had happened and his reply was "oh ok, well are you going to be back to hangout this weekend still?" What?!? She said he never seemed to commit to anything because it seemed like he was always waiting for something better to come up.
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