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Post by amber on Dec 31, 2019 2:19:07 GMT
I’ve not come across a woman in my age group who doesn’t have their ducks in a row. They generally need to, with kids. I also know a lot of very lost men. Regarding the lure that doesn’t work in later life? Yes, there are those men that will do anything for sex, but most are able to talk a good game, but not go there. There’s too much at stake for something that isn’t worth it anymore. One of my closest friends had his first sex in six years this week. Totally agree!! I think it’s in their face how dysfunctional they are when someone else has a career,is financially independent and owns a house etc... my ex blatantly told me he was comfortable living week to week and not knowing where his next pay check may come from. I think some men don’t want to take responsibility and put in the hard work that’s required to get your life in order Mrob what do you mean the lure doesn’t work later in life? For women or men? And what do you mean talk a good game? |
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Post by amber on Dec 31, 2019 2:54:47 GMT
Totally agree!! I think it’s in their face how dysfunctional they are when someone else has a career,is financially independent and owns a house etc... my ex blatantly told me he was comfortable living week to week and not knowing where his next pay check may come from. I think some men don’t want to take responsibility and put in the hard work that’s required to get your life in order To be fair, one person's idea of "in order", "responsibility", and "hard work" may be different from another person's. I'm sure we can draw some hard lines (i.e. have a job, if you have kids, provide for them), but outside of some of those larger things, I think the pressure comes when someone can feel the expectations of having to live the way another person desires them to instead of how they want to live. I don't think this at all has anything to do with attachment. Some people just want complete independence while at the same time having a degree of companionship. Yeah, I agree. My ex told me he wished he had made something for himeself and his kids prior to now...it didn’t worry me that we had a different way of living, I wondered if maybe he felt he needed to be similar to me And felt pressured |
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Post by amber on Dec 31, 2019 3:42:17 GMT
Yeah, I agree. My ex told me he wished he had made something for himeself and his kids prior to now...it didn’t worry me that we had a different way of living, I wondered if maybe he felt he needed to be similar to me And felt pressured If that's what he wanted and it's not something you pushed on him, then he should have been inspired by you as opposed to feeling emasculated. I definetly didn’t push anything on him. He told me he was inspired to take care of himself better as I’m good at self care, but had struggled his whole life to have goals and plans for future. I think this was a very imbedded pattern that he wasn’t able to break despite wanting to; perhaps it was confronting being with me and feeling like it reminded him more of what he couldn’t do for himself ? So sad. He told me that one of the reasons he thought we shouldn’t be together is because I like learning, studying, and educating myself and he didn’t. I thought that was sad, that he couldn’t accept and apreiwcte our differences but again maybe he felt threatened or intimated by this |
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Post by serenity on Dec 31, 2019 4:12:41 GMT
If that's what he wanted and it's not something you pushed on him, then he should have been inspired by you as opposed to feeling emasculated. I definetly didn’t push anything on him. He told me he was inspired to take care of himself better as I’m good at self care, but had struggled his whole life to have goals and plans for future. I think this was a very imbedded pattern that he wasn’t able to break despite wanting to; perhaps it was confronting being with me and feeling like it reminded him more of what he couldn’t do for himself ? So sad. He told me that one of the reasons he thought we shouldn’t be together is because I like learning, studying, and educating myself and he didn’t. I thought that was sad, that he couldn’t accept and apreiwcte our differences but again maybe he felt threatened or intimated by this Amber, I know how much those sorts of comments mess with your head after a breakup:( You wind up feeling bad about their supposed reasons for rejecting you...in this case, the things that are your strengths and accomplishments. You didn't deserve that. And Btw its awesome how smart & together you are (and Jules!). Its nuts anyone could turn that around to be a reason for a breakup. Avoidants can spin anything about you in a negative light when they feel too close. Its a distancing strategy they use. They'll even turn against the things they said they were attracted to in the beginning. You're too young, too old, too pretty, not pretty enough, too rich, too poor, too alike, not alike enough, blah blah blah. Anyone can spin it so your strengths are `negativies' but a good partner will not do that. |
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Post by mrob on Dec 31, 2019 4:35:45 GMT
If that's what he wanted and it's not something you pushed on him, then he should have been inspired by you as opposed to feeling emasculated. I definetly didn’t push anything on him. He told me he was inspired to take care of himself better as I’m good at self care, but had struggled his whole life to have goals and plans for future. I think this was a very imbedded pattern that he wasn’t able to break despite wanting to; perhaps it was confronting being with me and feeling like it reminded him more of what he couldn’t do for himself ? So sad. He told me that one of the reasons he thought we shouldn’t be together is because I like learning, studying, and educating myself and he didn’t. I thought that was sad, that he couldn’t accept and apreiwcte our differences but again maybe he felt threatened or intimated by this And that’s why married men live longer, are wealthier, etc, etc. I think, without overstating it, the marriage/partnership dilemma in the western world is going to become critical in the next decade. Humanity will find a way, but I don’t think it’ll look the same as before. Emasculation? It’s up to us men to define ourselves, and not necessarily as a homogenous lot. My experience is that you ladies are far more equipped than us men. You don’t need us. I got the shock of my life when I realised I needed my ex wife. |
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Post by amber on Dec 31, 2019 4:55:15 GMT
I definetly didn’t push anything on him. He told me he was inspired to take care of himself better as I’m good at self care, but had struggled his whole life to have goals and plans for future. I think this was a very imbedded pattern that he wasn’t able to break despite wanting to; perhaps it was confronting being with me and feeling like it reminded him more of what he couldn’t do for himself ? So sad. He told me that one of the reasons he thought we shouldn’t be together is because I like learning, studying, and educating myself and he didn’t. I thought that was sad, that he couldn’t accept and apreiwcte our differences but again maybe he felt threatened or intimated by this Amber, I know how much those sorts of comments mess with your head after a breakup:( You wind up feeling bad about their supposed reasons for rejecting you...in this case, the things that are your strengths and accomplishments. You didn't deserve that. And Btw its awesome how smart & together you are (and Jules!). Its nuts anyone could turn that around to be a reason for a breakup. Avoidants can spin anything about you in a negative light when they feel too close. Its a distancing strategy they use. They'll even turn against the things they said they were attracted to in the beginning. You're too young, too old, too pretty, not pretty enough, too rich, too poor, too alike, not alike enough, blah blah blah. Anyone can spin it so your strengths are `negativies' but a good partner will not do that. Thanks Serenity, so nice of you to say. I was really upset when he said that...he always complimented me on those things when we first got together, so he did a 180 on the way he felt.i get that was probably a distancing strategy. He also did the “i havnt met the right person yet” thing which made me feel so discarded as we had spent a LOT of time and energy investing in activities and practices to build our connection, so when he just walked without even trying to talk to me or see if it could be worked through, was really horrible |
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Post by serenity on Dec 31, 2019 5:32:55 GMT
It Might be hard to recognize mental distancing techniques if you're avoidant yourself, and this isn't intended to shame anyone. (and I value your contributions here Janedoe <3) From the literature i've read (and personal experiences) devaluing and `grass is greener' attitude are textbook avoidant distancing strategies. www.loveaddictionhelp.com/12-distancing-strategies-the-love-avoidant-uses-to-avoid-intimacy`` Criticizes or devalues— partner becomes the “enemy”; focuses on partners flaws or imperfections; makes belittling observations (e.g., comments on way partner talks, dresses, eats, looks, or (fill in the blank); finds fault/blames partner for any current or ongoing issues); displays a negative attitude of resentment, revulsion, or dislike; disparaging comments on traits he/she found to be positive in recent past; devalues, despite partners genuine effort of being open, loving, honest, caring, supportive, etc. Pines for past relationship (ex-girlfriend/boyfriend)— talks or thinks about a past relationship partner with a sense of craving, nostalgia, yearning, or longing for “the long lost love”; may make statements about great qualities of an ex-flame, all the while ignoring/minimizing ex’s imperfections that, in reality, what avoidant focused on in past relationship; convinces self that he/she was “the best partner I ever had”; may also dream of “the one perfect partner” who is “out there somewhere”.'' |
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Post by amber on Dec 31, 2019 6:25:00 GMT
I remember reading once that most couples start to find fault or get annoyed by the things they’ve first loved or admired in their partner...perhaps this is just part of being human once the honeymoon chemicals wear off...I think the difference though is that hopefully you can have the maturity, if you really see that the person and r/ship is valuable, to recognise this and not break up with someone because you are annoyed with someone’s personality traits
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Post by serenity on Dec 31, 2019 6:29:13 GMT
I read Amber's story, and I think you're being pretty invalidating considering she's going through a traumatic breakup. Those comments came at the end of a long relationship after a brutal discard, he's an avoidant, and blaming amber's `faults' (her accomplishments and strengths) is pretty classic avoidant behaviour. She didn't cling, she felt hurt and discarded. The real reason for the discard, which unaware avoidants rarely admit, is they got triggered by closeness, usually that they sough themselves.
Empathetic people who have not experienced relationships with avoidants often get confused and trapped by the relationship dynamic. Its starts secure and consistent for months, then swings to intermittent reinforcement. Even identifying it as intermittent reinforcement takes time, before a pattern is identified. Then biologically the partner becomes trapped. Happens in rats and animals too, nothing to do with attachment.
Experienced people who have been through this can back out more quickly. So can people who don't attach.
Can someone tell a joke now? This thread is supposed to be comic relief, lol.
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Post by mrob on Dec 31, 2019 6:41:12 GMT
I saw this thread to mean what happened to jules was so nonsensical that it had to be laughed at, otherwise you’d cry! |
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Post by mrob on Dec 31, 2019 6:45:17 GMT
Also, yes, I can see a pattern where I’ve turned someone’s assets into liabilities in my own mind. It starters with nitpicking and becomes worse. Then I’ve had the relationship talk with myself. So, yes. This avoidant is guilty!
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Post by serenity on Dec 31, 2019 6:46:38 GMT
knock Knock
Whos there?
Nobody
Nobody who?
Nobody its your fault.
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Post by serenity on Dec 31, 2019 6:47:28 GMT
Also, yes, I can see a pattern where I’ve turned someone’s assets into liabilities in my own mind. It starters with nitpicking and becomes worse. Then I’ve had the relationship talk with myself. So, yes. This avoidant is guilty! We love you mrob <3 |
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Post by amber on Dec 31, 2019 8:05:43 GMT
I read Amber's story, and I think you're being pretty invalidating considering she's going through a traumatic breakup. Those comments came at the end of a long relationship after a brutal discard, he's an avoidant, and blaming amber's `faults' (her accomplishments and strengths) is pretty classic avoidant behaviour. She didn't cling, she felt hurt and discarded. The real reason for the discard, which unaware avoidants rarely admit, is they got triggered by closeness, usually that they sough themselves. Empathetic people who have not experienced relationships with avoidants often get confused and trapped by the relationship dynamic. Its starts secure and consistent for months, then swings to intermittent reinforcement. Even identifying it as intermittent reinforcement takes time, before a pattern is identified. Then biologically the partner becomes trapped. Happens in rats and animals too, nothing to do with attachment. Experienced people who have been through this can back out more quickly. So can people who don't attach. Can someone tell a joke now? This thread is supposed to be comic relief, lol. This is a fairly good enactment of what happened to me.we had some very strong experiences of closeness (sex,vulnerable conversations) a few weeks before he ended it.plus he was under a lot of personal stress. I’m not perfect either, I definetly have AP tendencies which I have been aware of and in therapy about for years, and curbed my behaviours becusse im very aware of them, however I did have a few times where I let things slide and became critical of him because he was avoiding me and I became fearful. This pushed him away more.So the work for me is in learning to regulate myself better and not get overly emotional and critical when someone distances or threatens to leave. But hey I’m human so I have my reaction. |
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Post by amber on Dec 31, 2019 8:10:04 GMT
I read Amber's story, and I think you're being pretty invalidating considering she's going through a traumatic breakup. Those comments came at the end of a long relationship after a brutal discard, he's an avoidant, and blaming amber's `faults' (her accomplishments and strengths) is pretty classic avoidant behaviour. She didn't cling, she felt hurt and discarded. The real reason for the discard, which unaware avoidants rarely admit, is they got triggered by closeness, usually that they sough themselves. Empathetic people who have not experienced relationships with avoidants often get confused and trapped by the relationship dynamic. Its starts secure and consistent for months, then swings to intermittent reinforcement. Even identifying it as intermittent reinforcement takes time, before a pattern is identified. Then biologically the partner becomes trapped. Happens in rats and animals too, nothing to do with attachment. Experienced people who have been through this can back out more quickly. So can people who don't attach. Can someone tell a joke now? This thread is supposed to be comic relief, lol. This thread was originally the OPs story. My comments weren’t at all personal to anyone but generalized statements. You made it personal with indirect comments by stating I didn’t recognize behavior of a certain attachment type implicating it is my own. Go ahead and continue to pretend that’s not the case by making jokes. Should I armchair assess what classic dysfunctional behavior this is? I only call out behavior of those who do not take personal responsibility for their behavior. The attachment style is irrelevant to me. Personal responsibility is relevant to me. You placed blame on avoidants who “spin” things ignoring personal responsibility of the other party. And I mean in general. Not specific to anyone’s story. But your statement was a generalization about avoidants. I responded in kind. I don’t know if Amber is accomplished nor do I know if she is strong. You’re reading into this. What I do know is I’ve myself been on this side of the coin. And some of my comments come from that place. I came here triggered AP by an FA. So way to make it personal because you assume I’m an avoidant and place all the blame on avoidants. I definetly take responsibility for attracting this person into my life. Clearly I’m not as available for closeness as I thought I was or wouldn’t have attracted someone else as unavailable as him. I don’t think we can ever fully blame the other party, we both contribute to r/ship dysfunction in one way or another, I guess we are all here trying to process it all. My ex is classic FA though, and it has helped me contextualise what happened. It’s also really helped me understand the way I relate romantically and the areas I needed to work on myself |
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