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Post by kittygirl on Jan 23, 2020 18:36:01 GMT
Hello all. Just wanted to give you guys a quick update-after about 6 weeks of no contact (barring the little time he contacted me in the middle) I decided to reach out to my ex, as I felt I was ready to be friends (no longer have a desire for a relationship, and it doesn't bother me if he's with other people-I assume he is). We exchanged just a few texts-VERY light at first. I then decided after a few days to sort of clear the air and just let him know that I did a bunch of processing, I was coming back to the table with NO ill will or hard feelings towards him and that I was ready to have him in my life as a friend. I also explained (or reassured him I guess) that sometimes in life there is asymmetry in connection- this is no ones fault and even though my ego may have been a bit bruised, that is no one's "fault". He responded with a very nice text, saying some wonderful things he likes about me, thanked me for being so kind to him all the time but that it wasn't our time. And I do agree with that. That's just life as I see it.
A few fays later we started talking and sort of out of nowhere he says "I want to say that I feel silly for freaking out just because you cared about me and I am sorry for doing it and I wish I didn't.". This was news to me as I thought it was his depression and life circumstances that caused the deactivation. I told him "look i see you and I understand. I'm not upset. Be kind to yourself. I have your back always and I'm in your corner no matter what." (I'm fiercely loyal to all my friends and would do anything for them).
Anyway, I found this...surprising. I don't know if this was a cycle back around (he certainly never said anything like "let's try this again") or if it was a genuine attempt at friendly reconciliation but it was interesting as I hadn't really heard this sentiment from FAs on here or exes of FAs. Do you suppose that the way he experiences "engulfment" is just someone caring about him? I can't really wrap my head around why that would cause a person to feel the need to flee. Maybe it's just that the feeling of someone caring about you and feeling like you'll let them down because you know you can't really reciprocate? I don't know.
Anyway needless to say I will NOT be getting back in a romantic relationship with him if that is his intended outcome. He's a treasure of a human, but a relationship with him would destroy me and I'm not even slightly interested in that. But I'm happy to be friends for sure.
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Post by dhali on Jan 23, 2020 18:44:52 GMT
I've never really understood the "friendship" thing. To me it has always seemed like taking a back seat. Why? Well, what happens when you settle down with a different guy? Is that guy going to be OK with your male friendship? One that used to be romantic, but now you're just special friends who rely on each other? I wouldn't be OK with that, and I would probably wonder why you need this person as your friend now that you're in a relationship with me. It's sort of inappropriate to get needs met by someone else that you used to date (or even the same sex that you enter relationships with). The only way it could work is if the friendship runs really deep. To the point of being sibling-like, imo. I personally view these friendships as ways to keep a connection open.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 23, 2020 18:54:09 GMT
kittygirl, I've had things like that happen with my FA exes who did want to put in the effort to stay friends. Depending on their mood, once they got out of deactivation, they'd often stop blaming me, say something insightful about the situation, be caring because they were happy I was talking to them at all, didn't want to push me away for good... but they also both had unresolved pushed down feelings for me. So they didn't want to still be with me but had some blurry boundaries for a while that led to some more back and forth and hooking up and apologizing and mind-changing before that aspect got mutually left behind for good. However, even as just friends, if they were triggered avoidant again for whatever reason, they'd kind of rehash their original narrative to blame me and push me away until they un-triggered. There's a lack of consistency in their identity so the narrative may still shift back and forth depending on their mood and other things going on in their life. My point is, you can be friends, and only friends, if they're putting in equal effort AND you are able to hold strong boundaries, which may mean sticking to your own narrative consistently in spite of what they say.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 23, 2020 19:05:02 GMT
kittygirl, wanted to add that even after they showed some insight, none of them changed at all or did any self-work. They still are who they are, and that's who you should expect to be friends with.
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Post by kittygirl on Jan 23, 2020 19:22:55 GMT
dhali thats a very interesting point. I hadn't thought about it like that. It's interesting because I am friends with all of my exes (or most, but the ones I am not friends with is because their new GF didn't like it-totally understandable, or they were so shit to me that I didn't have a desire to communicate with them again (only one). BUT that having been said, you may be on to something here. Like, in my mind, I think "Ok I really got along with this person, we just don't work as a romantic couple, so why throw the baby out with the bath water?" I am also someone who doesn't really think it's fair to expect one person to meet all of my needs (is this insecure attachment?? I hadn't thought about it before!), and think it's unfair to expect that of me as well, so having multiple people in your life who can offer different bits can help with your romantic relationship. Or it has with me. I was with my previous ex for 10 years and he wasn't going to be able to meet all my needs so having people in my life (and this includes girlfriends) around who can help is good. This is also why I am not a huge fan of monogamy. But that having been said, I think there probably IS some sort of desire (this was subconscious until I started writing it out) to keep a connection of some sort because I feel like life is short and I don't connect with tons of people so would be a shame to let one go? Maybe I am thinking about this all wrong. This is making me think a lot. alexandra I was hoping you'd chime in as I know you have experience in this realm. For me, I know what I want (it's clear to me now-a friendship) so I FEEL as though I could hold boundaries and not get wrapped up in his flip flopping all over the place, but I am saying that now while he isn't deactivating from me (which hurt like hell when it happened) and maybe a symmetrical friendship with him is just a pipe dream. I mean, the stakes of our relationship before were already so low-we live in different cities, I don't want to get married or move in together, and he STILL ended up dipping out on me. In other words, it wasn't really much different from a friendship apart from us meeting up to have sex and doing lots of "romantic" communication otherwise. So is it reasonable to expect a different outcome this time? Sigh Man this is very hard. I don't have any sort of blueprint for this because all of my past relationships were all so good (seriously) and the guys were all predictable and we had no issues transitioning into something else. I always did (and still do) feel secure with my role in their lives. THIS IS VERY HARD
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Post by nyc718 on Jan 23, 2020 19:25:01 GMT
I've never really understood the "friendship" thing. To me it has always seemed like taking a back seat. Why? Well, what happens when you settle down with a different guy? Is that guy going to be OK with your male friendship? One that used to be romantic, but now you're just special friends who rely on each other? I wouldn't be OK with that, and I would probably wonder why you need this person as your friend now that you're in a relationship with me. It's sort of inappropriate to get needs met by someone else that you used to date (or even the same sex that you enter relationships with). The only way it could work is if the friendship runs really deep. To the point of being sibling-like, imo. I personally view these friendships as ways to keep a connection open. There is one particular ex that I am friends with, but we aren't day to day friends by any means, more like once or twice a year or every two years kind of friends. It took about two years after breakup before we reconnected, and in that time we had both grown and moved on with our lives, but what we had for each other was a mutual fondness and respect. I can't say that about all exes, but I can see how if that's in place with two people, they can indeed have some sort of friendship. We were never romantic after that, besides the fact that by then he had moved across the country and remained ever since, over 20 years ago, but we have both acknowledged many times to each other how important our relationship was to each of us. It was very special and a very special time in our lives - we were both late finishers in college who had been through some stuff at that point in our lives. I used to consider him the "one that got away", but I changed that eventually to the one who meant a great deal to me and always would. I actually had dinner with him and his fiancee a few weeks before this past Christmas when they were in town. It was great to see him and great to meet her, who I would dare say, is similar to me :-) If they lived here, I would definitely hang out with her as I found her to be lovely. I am happy that he finally met someone he wanted to marry, and I knew that over the years, he had done some work on himself. So it's not impossible to be friends with an ex, though in my experience, it could only happen when I truly had no more romantic feelings for him, and I had no unresolved or painful issues with him. He has told me over the years about the girlfriends he has had, and he knew me through my marriage and later, my divorce, and later still, my post divorce dating. It can happen, but it would take a lot healing on both parts. |
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Post by alexandra on Jan 23, 2020 19:32:51 GMT
kittygirl, when my LTR FA ex tried to be friends again the first time and we ended up getting back together (and then he just repeated), it was after a long period of no contact and me working hard on my AP. So, I had made a concerted effort to fix my communication and not just push things down to keep the peace / prevent perceived abandonment. We ended up discussing this as something that had mutually gone wrong the first time (his communication was far worse than mine due to his avoidant side), and just practiced being better about it with each other. Or maybe I was trying harder to be good about it, and he was responding positively and eventually following example. Whichever it was, we're years out now, and when he starts deactivating on me as a friend, I actually call him out on it (reminding him I need consistency from the people in my life) and he stops doing it and corrects. He's also aware that he is prone to doing that in general in life, and trusts me enough after all this time to know I'm not just trying to be critical or "cause drama," so he can take the feedback without getting overly defensive. But it took years and two failed relationships for us to get to that point. My point is, it takes work, but if you really establish a mutual friendship, you should be able to tell him how you feel about his behavior like you would with any other friend. Not being afraid to communicate directly (and again, mutual commitment to a real friendship) is key.
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Post by dhali on Jan 23, 2020 19:41:45 GMT
I am also someone who doesn't really think it's fair to expect one person to meet all of my needs (is this insecure attachment?? I hadn't thought about it before!), and think it's unfair to expect that of me as well, so having multiple people in your life who can offer different bits can help with your romantic relationship. Thiis sounds like a polyamorous situation. That's how it's justified. No, they can't meet all of your needs. But it's not appropriate for an ex-romantic partner to fill the rest. Or an opposite sex one (if you're straight). That leads to emotional affairs. Find a girlfriend, imo. "to keep a connection of some sort because I feel like life is short and I don't connect with tons of people so would be a shame to let one go? Maybe I am thinking about this all wrong. This is making me think a lot."Which leads me to believe that you would welcome a comeback - just not consciously right now. |
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Post by dhali on Jan 23, 2020 19:49:04 GMT
I've never really understood the "friendship" thing. To me it has always seemed like taking a back seat. Why? Well, what happens when you settle down with a different guy? Is that guy going to be OK with your male friendship? One that used to be romantic, but now you're just special friends who rely on each other? I wouldn't be OK with that, and I would probably wonder why you need this person as your friend now that you're in a relationship with me. It's sort of inappropriate to get needs met by someone else that you used to date (or even the same sex that you enter relationships with). The only way it could work is if the friendship runs really deep. To the point of being sibling-like, imo. I personally view these friendships as ways to keep a connection open. There is one particular ex that I am friends with, but we aren't day to day friends by any means, more like once or twice a year or every two years kind of friends. It took about two years after breakup before we reconnected, and in that time we had both grown and moved on with our lives, but what we had for each other was a mutual fondness and respect. I can't say that about all exes, but I can see how if that's in place with two people, they can indeed have some sort of friendship. We were never romantic after that, besides the fact that by then he had moved across the country and remained ever since, over 20 years ago, but we have both acknowledged many times to each other how important our relationship was to each of us. It was very special and a very special time in our lives - we were both late finishers in college who had been through some stuff at that point in our lives. I used to consider him the "one that got away", but I changed that eventually to the one who meant a great deal to me and always would. I actually had dinner with him and his fiancee a few weeks before this past Christmas when they were in town. It was great to see him and great to meet her, who I would dare say, is similar to me :-) If they lived here, I would definitely hang out with her as I found her to be lovely. I am happy that he finally met someone he wanted to marry, and I knew that over the years, he had done some work on himself. So it's not impossible to be friends with an ex, though in my experience, it could only happen when I truly had no more romantic feelings for him, and I had no unresolved or painful issues with him. He has told me over the years about the girlfriends he has had, and he knew me through my marriage and later, my divorce, and later still, my post divorce dating. It can happen, but it would take a lot healing on both parts. Agreed it can happen. This is the sibling-like friendship. And really, it's not really that in depth of a friendship. You chat 1-2x per year. How supportive is that really? To me, it's a mutual fondness with strong boundaries. It doesn't sounds to me as if you're getting weekly,. or even monthly needs met. Usually friendships are about being there for a person when they are needed. Your situation may touch on that a bit, but I'd be blown away if your ex would drop everything for you if you needed him to. That's what a friendship is. You have girlfriends who would though. And if he did, his fiance should be upset. BTW, I am "friends" with a few ex's. Those friendships get paused when I'm in a relationship. So while they are nice, and sometimes when I'm single and they are, there can be support. But that doesn't happen when we are with someone. |
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Post by amber on Jan 23, 2020 20:34:53 GMT
For me I couldn’t transition from a romantic relationship to a friendship in only six weeks...it’s too short. I would think there would be potentially still feelings from one or both parties. And still lots of processing about the relationship at that point. I think of my female friends and how the relationships dynamic is and wonder how a friendship with an ex could ever be even remotely similar. Ie would I call my ex just to chat on the phone about life and everything that is going on? Catch up and go out for dinner/activities? Text regularly about life stuff? Definetly not. I don’t think I’m a friends with ex kinda person though, even though I was amicable with my last two breakups and we agreed to be friends, it never really happened, like there was just no ‘energy’ or desire there to maintain it.
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Post by dhali on Jan 23, 2020 20:53:35 GMT
Exactly Amber. I see it a lot on these boards - especially from people describing themselves as AP or FA. There's this focus on the friendship. I personally think it's a crutch. Find another friend where the waters aren't so murky. As nyc212 mentioned though, that's not 100% of the time, but in the other times, I wouldn't really call it a friendship. It's mutual fondness and wishing well - at best. At worst, it's completely dysfunctional.
Kitty- are you looking for the friendship to be "just to chat on the phone about life and everything that is going on? Catch up and go out for dinner/activities? Text regularly about life stuff?" And then I'd ask - do you need your ex to be that person?
I do think it's commendable to let them know you have no hard feelings. For me, moving on is me not caring anymore, which is neither positive nor negative. And it certainly doesn't involve me letting them know that I don't care. Because I don't care.
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Post by kittygirl on Jan 23, 2020 21:13:06 GMT
This is a great question and I am going to be honest THOUGH please read at the end of what I say because I am having some revelations here. So with my other ex friends, that is how we are...text about life. I meet one of them once a year to do little vacations (also with my girlfriends). I give them advice with their relationships if they want it,etc. But SHIT I am literally starting to realize as I am typing this that these aren't really "normal" friendships. There are unresolved feelings from a few of them towards me (I know because they will elude to that) and I am realizing that in all these cases but maybe 1, we just sort of transitioned into friendships (I broke up with all of them but probably didn't want to lose a lot of what they gave me but not be in a relationship) without really giving it the PROPER time (like probably months or even a year or more) to really get rid of lingering feelings. WHen I am done with someone I am just "done" but that doesn't seem "normal" and now that I am thinking about it, I don't think its normal to have all these exes in my life with the veneer of "friendship" when I KNOW that in some cases the motivations on their part may not be sincere. So yeah, to answer your question dhali...do I really need my exes around to talk about my life? I don't think so. I think I am getting something else out of this. I really do. I just need to do more soul searching to figure it out. Damn it....this forum is a blessing and a curse. A curse in that I hear things I don't want to, but a blessing in that I really do need to. I also test always "secure" on the attachment things and have never thought I had issues getting close or intimate (nor have exes told me this) but all of this crap is making me wonder. Is this an AP thing to do? An avoidant thing to do? I don't even know. wow i think my mind is actually blown right now. I'm not even kidding |
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Post by dhali on Jan 23, 2020 21:21:31 GMT
WHen I am done with someone I am just "done" but that doesn't seem "normal" and now that I am thinking about it, I actually think that's normal. And not a personality disorder as alluded to on another thread. I think it's normal to be done with a person after you breakup. That's why you broke up, because you were done. I personally wonder if an FA can be that way. That to me, is more DA, or secure. As for how you test - that's all BS when you're not in a relationship. Do it when you're with someone. Otherwise, it's just wishful thinking. How did you test before you tested secure? My guess is FA, strong on the avoidance. I'm glad you're viewing things a bit differently. It's certainly not fair to string those men along. How would you react/feel if an ex you broke things off with just disappeared from your life right after the breakup? |
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Post by dhali on Jan 23, 2020 21:28:43 GMT
BTW- I now view a woman with a stable of ex's (and a man with the same), as a huge red flag. It's not the sign of maturity you think.
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Post by nyc718 on Jan 23, 2020 21:39:32 GMT
There is one particular ex that I am friends with, but we aren't day to day friends by any means, more like once or twice a year or every two years kind of friends. It took about two years after breakup before we reconnected, and in that time we had both grown and moved on with our lives, but what we had for each other was a mutual fondness and respect. I can't say that about all exes, but I can see how if that's in place with two people, they can indeed have some sort of friendship. We were never romantic after that, besides the fact that by then he had moved across the country and remained ever since, over 20 years ago, but we have both acknowledged many times to each other how important our relationship was to each of us. It was very special and a very special time in our lives - we were both late finishers in college who had been through some stuff at that point in our lives. I used to consider him the "one that got away", but I changed that eventually to the one who meant a great deal to me and always would. I actually had dinner with him and his fiancee a few weeks before this past Christmas when they were in town. It was great to see him and great to meet her, who I would dare say, is similar to me :-) If they lived here, I would definitely hang out with her as I found her to be lovely. I am happy that he finally met someone he wanted to marry, and I knew that over the years, he had done some work on himself. So it's not impossible to be friends with an ex, though in my experience, it could only happen when I truly had no more romantic feelings for him, and I had no unresolved or painful issues with him. He has told me over the years about the girlfriends he has had, and he knew me through my marriage and later, my divorce, and later still, my post divorce dating. It can happen, but it would take a lot healing on both parts. Agreed it can happen. This is the sibling-like friendship. And really, it's not really that in depth of a friendship. You chat 1-2x per year. How supportive is that really? To me, it's a mutual fondness with strong boundaries. It doesn't sounds to me as if you're getting weekly,. or even monthly needs met. Usually friendships are about being there for a person when they are needed. Your situation may touch on that a bit, but I'd be blown away if your ex would drop everything for you if you needed him to. That's what a friendship is. You have girlfriends who would though. And if he did, his fiance should be upset. BTW, I am "friends" with a few ex's. Those friendships get paused when I'm in a relationship. So while they are nice, and sometimes when I'm single and they are, there can be support. But that doesn't happen when we are with someone. Completely untrue that we don't have depth of a friendship, and presumptuous of you to think so. He has been a shoulder for me to cry on in the past, and he was exactly that, a friend. Our friendship over the years has changed and evolved as we have in life, but it isn't any less deep. If I needed him, he would be there. I am always respectful of anyone, man or woman in a relationship and would never do anything to make their partner feel uncomfortable by reaching out inappropriately. But that's where our respect for each other comes in as well. I also don't expect any of my friends, male or female (my best friend is a straight male, fyi, who I have known since high school) to "drop everything' for me, and as a single mom, I know they don't expect that of me either. But clearly our definitions of friendship are different. I only expect family or a significant other to be that kind of emergency contact, if you will. But that doesn't make my friends any less good friends, not to me or them. And no, I don't expect my women friends more than male friends to drop everything for me. |
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