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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2017 7:30:54 GMT
Dearlover- wow, that's very interesting. Kind of how asperger's works. I read how they do take cues and repeat words and do try to empathize but they just can't. Not at all saying that's what he had but it's just interesting. Mine would want to talk about what we were thinking about our "non-relationship " as he called it. Looking back I think the talking about things heightened his feelings in the moment because it was that drama that he needs to feel something. I realized I did that a lot too but I've out grown that now. I am on the autistic spectrum - kind of self contained and whilst I have a huge regard for how others are feeling I don't feel it with them if that makes sense. I've spent the lat few years accessing feelings ie looking at the physical sensations in my body which are the first clue that something it going on emotionally - it's been very helpful and I am now a much more emotional person than I was in the past. I think it's important not to be able to blame someone for not being able to feel what you feel - as long as they are trying to understand and react appropriately that's surely enough? Maybe not for some people who need their needs anticipated - but for me to have a partner who's willing to hear me and do their best to understand and behave accordingly would be a great blessing. I thought me ex was ASD since he was very very similar to me in some respects in terms of emotional coolness, solitary nature, quiet and apparently calm. In retrospect I'm not so sure now - many of these traits overlap with DA/FA and I think that many of us on the spectrum experienced a great deal of rejection as children since we don't fit the mould and off the back of this have grown self protective behaviours if that makes sense. Sometimes these behaviours are actually much more of a handicap than the ASD. |
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sammy
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Post by sammy on Sept 3, 2017 9:07:09 GMT
Here’s a guy now 54 years old, (Father of 2 grown up sons) who has been in many relationships in his life, had 4 live in relationships before me and one other “serious” relationship with a woman (the one) who already had a boyfriend, she chose the other man and married him. Plus many other short lived relationships.
I had had one long relationship 23 years, which was good, I had a terrible “mid-life crisis” left him which broke his heart.
My DA moved me and my dog into his lovely home within 4 months of dating. I was enraptured with him, put him on a pedestal and did everything to make him happy.
Shortly after me moving in, when I was madly in love and in heaven, he changed abruptly, started to say he felt down, and needed time alone. Gave me the silent treatment. The honeymoon period was over as far as he was concerned, I was hurt and shocked by this sudden change.
He often walked ahead of me and didn’t seem to want to slow down so I could catch him up.
He “accidently” showed me a photo of him with another girl on his laptop. (he had no pants on)
Early on when I had just moved in he tried to incorporate porn into our sex life. He used porn a lot and I eventually persuaded him that I didn’t think it was healthy within a living in relationship.
Seven months together he went on a long weekend away with a group of guys for a birthday celebration, they went to a European city where I used to live near, I was excited for him and suggested some interesting bars to go to and wished him a great time. He did not call, text or Facebook msg me . I did send him a Facebook msg as he was online asking if he was having a good time and saying I wonder if you’re ok as I haven’t heard from him. He replied “don’t make me feel guilty as I’m away having fun with the guys.” I was deeply hurt by this.
He took me and my dog away on weekend breaks several times, he drove as I can’t drive. He would be silent and put up a cold barrier, as if I wasn’t there in the car with him. I was excited about the journey and holiday, his silent treatment made me sad and hurt. He also did this on some of the holidays we went on. He is a photographer and immersed himself in his photography ignoring me.
He sometimes mentioned the habits of his exs, telling me such and such did this or that. I didn’t want to think of his exes I just wanted to build intimacy with him and I alone. He also talked about having more experience in relationships than me as if he was some authority on relationships and I was naïve with little experience.
Of course with a DA there are times when they show incredible kindness and promise. I ignored the red flags. Realising that I should not have moved in with him so soon and so shortly after he had split with his second wife.
If I tried to calmly explain why I felt hurt by his ignoring me, he would deny everything and say I had a problem. Too needy
So, I tried to stuff down my feelings, used alcohol to numb myself, got drunk then would be verbally enraged, he would respond in rage and I would feel at least I got things off my chest and got some attention!
It became a vicious circle, I was not aware of our personality types until recently, me anxious preoccupied, him dismissive avoidant. We are now split up but living in the same house until I can find somewhere for me and my elderly dog to live (rental property is very expensive and I love my low paid job)
This forum is helping me to distance myself from him and giving me strength to move on from the incredibly dysfunctional relationship we had. Thank you
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Post by DearLover on Sept 3, 2017 9:37:27 GMT
Dearlover- wow, that's very interesting. Kind of how asperger's works. I read how they do take cues and repeat words and do try to empathize but they just can't. Not at all saying that's what he had but it's just interesting. Mine would want to talk about what we were thinking about our "non-relationship " as he called it. Looking back I think the talking about things heightened his feelings in the moment because it was that drama that he needs to feel something. I realized I did that a lot too but I've out grown that now.
I think it's important not to be able to blame someone for not being able to feel what you feel - as long as they are trying to understand and react appropriately that's surely enough? Maybe not for some people who need their needs anticipated - but for me to have a partner who's willing to hear me and do their best to understand and behave accordingly would be a great blessing.
I thought me ex was ASD since he was very very similar to me in some respects in terms of emotional coolness, solitary nature, quiet and apparently calm. In retrospect I'm not so sure now - many of these traits overlap with DA/FA and I think that many of us on the spectrum experienced a great deal of rejection as children since we don't fit the mould and off the back of this have grown self protective behaviours if that makes sense. Sometimes these behaviours are actually much more of a handicap than the ASD.
Ocarina, I agree with you. I had a lot of patience and understanding about his emotional issues, after all, he was very brave being vulnerable and talking about his chaotic upbringing and his issues with his parents. But something died inside me when my dad passed away and he wasn't there for me not even by phone calls...Sometimes I think I over reacted because he did send me a text after all, he asked how I was feeling, he called the NEXT evening (although was more preoccupied with his own struggles)...but he kept forcing a shallow interaction by texted only and pushing for everything to be back to normal (e.g. me giving him undivided attention) while I was grieving my dad's death totally alone. He then offered for me to visit him at his house (so he could comfort me, after 3 days my dad died) and then changed plans and withdrew and cancelled our meeting saying: "since you are going through a tough time, I think it is better if we meet at the weekend..." following up with a "let me know if you have grown tired of me"
My dad died on a Sunday this was on Wednesday! Even I couldn't stand by and go along, as much as it hurts me every day.
During my meditations yesterday I sensed that perhaps he has been priming me for the day HE would the one to break up. Sometimes I sense that he saw the death of my dad as a perfect opportunity to make everything so much more confusing and complicated that there would be no other choice but split.
Who knows? I have tried re-connecting and talking like adults but he is ignoring me.
I just need to stop feeling guilty for be the one who broke up and using text message to do so. I am sure he was more than relieved in not having to do it by phone or (worse) in person anyway.
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Post by DearLover on Sept 3, 2017 9:39:57 GMT
Here’s a guy now 54 years old, (Father of 2 grown up sons) who has been in many relationships in his life, had 4 live in relationships before me and one other “serious” relationship with a woman (the one) who already had a boyfriend, she chose the other man and married him. Plus many other short lived relationships. I had had one long relationship 23 years, which was good, I had a terrible “mid-life crisis” left him which broke his heart. My DA moved me and my dog into his lovely home within 4 months of dating. I was enraptured with him, put him on a pedestal and did everything to make him happy. Shortly after me moving in, when I was madly in love and in heaven, he changed abruptly, started to say he felt down, and needed time alone. Gave me the silent treatment. The honeymoon period was over as far as he was concerned, I was hurt and shocked by this sudden change. He often walked ahead of me and didn’t seem to want to slow down so I could catch him up. He “accidently” showed me a photo of him with another girl on his laptop. (he had no pants on) Early on when I had just moved in he tried to incorporate porn into our sex life. He used porn a lot and I eventually persuaded him that I didn’t think it was healthy within a living in relationship. Seven months together he went on a long weekend away with a group of guys for a birthday celebration, they went to a European city where I used to live near, I was excited for him and suggested some interesting bars to go to and wished him a great time. He did not call, text or Facebook msg me . I did send him a Facebook msg as he was online asking if he was having a good time and saying I wonder if you’re ok as I haven’t heard from him. He replied “don’t make me feel guilty as I’m away having fun with the guys.” I was deeply hurt by this. He took me and my dog away on weekend breaks several times, he drove as I can’t drive. He would be silent and put up a cold barrier, as if I wasn’t there in the car with him. I was excited about the journey and holiday, his silent treatment made me sad and hurt. He also did this on some of the holidays we went on. He is a photographer and immersed himself in his photography ignoring me. He sometimes mentioned the habits of his exs, telling me such and such did this or that. I didn’t want to think of his exes I just wanted to build intimacy with him and I alone. He also talked about having more experience in relationships than me as if he was some authority on relationships and I was naïve with little experience. Of course with a DA there are times when they show incredible kindness and promise. I ignored the red flags. Realising that I should not have moved in with him so soon and so shortly after he had split with his second wife. If I tried to calmly explain why I felt hurt by his ignoring me, he would deny everything and say I had a problem. Too needy So, I tried to stuff down my feelings, used alcohol to numb myself, got drunk then would be verbally enraged, he would respond in rage and I would feel at least I got things off my chest and got some attention! It became a vicious circle, I was not aware of our personality types until recently, me anxious preoccupied, him dismissive avoidant. We are now split up but living in the same house until I can find somewhere for me and my elderly dog to live (rental property is very expensive and I love my low paid job) This forum is helping me to distance myself from him and giving me strength to move on from the incredibly dysfunctional relationship we had. Thank you I am so sorry you are going through this. It is so disconcerting being with an DA and even worse depending on him. Please keep coming back to share your story, getting insights and strength. Take care. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2017 10:15:04 GMT
I am on the autistic spectrum - kind of self contained and whilst I have a huge regard for how others are feeling I don't feel it with them if that makes sense. I've spent the lat few years accessing feelings ie looking at the physical sensations in my body which are the first clue that something it going on emotionally - it's been very helpful and I am now a much more emotional person than I was in the past.
I think it's important not to be able to blame someone for not being able to feel what you feel - as long as they are trying to understand and react appropriately that's surely enough? Maybe not for some people who need their needs anticipated - but for me to have a partner who's willing to hear me and do their best to understand and behave accordingly would be a great blessing.
I thought me ex was ASD since he was very very similar to me in some respects in terms of emotional coolness, solitary nature, quiet and apparently calm. In retrospect I'm not so sure now - many of these traits overlap with DA/FA and I think that many of us on the spectrum experienced a great deal of rejection as children since we don't fit the mould and off the back of this have grown self protective behaviours if that makes sense. Sometimes these behaviours are actually much more of a handicap than the ASD.
Ocarina, I agree with you. I had a lot of patience and understanding about his emotional issues, after all, he was very brave being vulnerable and talking about his chaotic upbringing and his issues with his parents. But something died inside me when my dad passed away and he wasn't there for me not even by phone calls...Sometimes I think I over reacted because he did send me a text after all, he asked how I was feeling, he called the NEXT evening (although was more preoccupied with his own struggles)...but he kept forcing a shallow interaction by texted only and pushing for everything to be back to normal (e.g. me giving him undivided attention) while I was grieving my dad's death totally alone. He then offered for me to visit him at his house (so he could comfort me, after 3 days my dad died) and then changed plans and withdrew and cancelled our meeting saying: "since you are going through a tough time, I think it is better if we meet at the weekend..." following up with a "let me know if you have grown tired of me" My dad died on a Sunday this was on Wednesday! Even I couldn't stand by and go along, as much as it hurts me every day. During my meditations yesterday I sensed that perhaps he has been priming me for the day HE would the one to break up. Sometimes I sense that he saw the death of my dad as a perfect opportunity to make everything so much more confusing and complicated that there would be no other choice but split. Who knows? I have tried re-connecting and talking like adults but he is ignoring me. I just need to stop feeling guilty for be the one who broke up and using text message to do so. I am sure he was more than relieved in not having to do it by phone or (worse) in person anyway. DearLover - I hope my post didn't come across as suggesting you or anyone else had been less than understanding - both parties needs must be considered in a relationship and I can see how devastating this lack of support must have been during such a difficult time. For someone on the autistic spectrum it would be hard to know what to do in those times and very often the autistic person will behave in the way that they would want under the circumstances - for example in times of extreme grief and stress being left alone would be their preference. No idea if that was what was going on here or if he was just being horrifically insensitive and self centred. Being autistic spectrum is never an excuse for being uncaring and cruel and from what else you've written it sounds as though your BF was both of those things - even if unintentionally by not being able to be available for you. I can remember the point of recognition when I realised my ex couldn't be there for me in times of trouble and the reason became immaterial whether it was being DA/ ASD/ just plain nasty or whatever. That was certainly a trigger for my leaving, after all for most of us, a relationship is a support during the good and the bad times. |
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sammy
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Post by sammy on Sept 3, 2017 10:23:04 GMT
Here’s a guy now 54 years old, (Father of 2 grown up sons) who has been in many relationships in his life, had 4 live in relationships before me and one other “serious” relationship with a woman (the one) who already had a boyfriend, she chose the other man and married him. Plus many other short lived relationships. I had had one long relationship 23 years, which was good, I had a terrible “mid-life crisis” left him which broke his heart. My DA moved me and my dog into his lovely home within 4 months of dating. I was enraptured with him, put him on a pedestal and did everything to make him happy. Shortly after me moving in, when I was madly in love and in heaven, he changed abruptly, started to say he felt down, and needed time alone. Gave me the silent treatment. The honeymoon period was over as far as he was concerned, I was hurt and shocked by this sudden change. He often walked ahead of me and didn’t seem to want to slow down so I could catch him up. He “accidently” showed me a photo of him with another girl on his laptop. (he had no pants on) Early on when I had just moved in he tried to incorporate porn into our sex life. He used porn a lot and I eventually persuaded him that I didn’t think it was healthy within a living in relationship. Seven months together he went on a long weekend away with a group of guys for a birthday celebration, they went to a European city where I used to live near, I was excited for him and suggested some interesting bars to go to and wished him a great time. He did not call, text or Facebook msg me . I did send him a Facebook msg as he was online asking if he was having a good time and saying I wonder if you’re ok as I haven’t heard from him. He replied “don’t make me feel guilty as I’m away having fun with the guys.” I was deeply hurt by this. He took me and my dog away on weekend breaks several times, he drove as I can’t drive. He would be silent and put up a cold barrier, as if I wasn’t there in the car with him. I was excited about the journey and holiday, his silent treatment made me sad and hurt. He also did this on some of the holidays we went on. He is a photographer and immersed himself in his photography ignoring me. He sometimes mentioned the habits of his exs, telling me such and such did this or that. I didn’t want to think of his exes I just wanted to build intimacy with him and I alone. He also talked about having more experience in relationships than me as if he was some authority on relationships and I was naïve with little experience. Of course with a DA there are times when they show incredible kindness and promise. I ignored the red flags. Realising that I should not have moved in with him so soon and so shortly after he had split with his second wife. If I tried to calmly explain why I felt hurt by his ignoring me, he would deny everything and say I had a problem. Too needy So, I tried to stuff down my feelings, used alcohol to numb myself, got drunk then would be verbally enraged, he would respond in rage and I would feel at least I got things off my chest and got some attention! It became a vicious circle, I was not aware of our personality types until recently, me anxious preoccupied, him dismissive avoidant. We are now split up but living in the same house until I can find somewhere for me and my elderly dog to live (rental property is very expensive and I love my low paid job) This forum is helping me to distance myself from him and giving me strength to move on from the incredibly dysfunctional relationship we had. Thank you I am so sorry you are going through this. It is so disconcerting being with an DA and even worse depending on him. Please keep coming back to share your story, getting insights and strength. Take care. |
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sammy
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Post by sammy on Sept 3, 2017 10:23:50 GMT
Thank you for responding DearLover. He ended our 4 year relationship about 5 weeks ago and i am now coming to terms with it and attempting to be strong. (even though we are living in the same house) Sometimes i wonder if just having me under the same roof is enough for him to feel that he isn't entirely alone or lonely.
This forum has given me a lot of insight and strength. Many thanks for this support.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2017 18:22:03 GMT
Let me contribute to this thread: My DA/FA made it clear from the beginning that he is looking for an independent woman who has her own life. He prefers a long distance relationship living in different cities and meeting once every 2 weeks or so.  He hardly texted or called, and only at night before he slept. As we got closer to becoming exclusive, the texts went from once or twice a day to once or twice a week, then once or twice every 2 weeks, etc. you do the Math  After spending a glorious time together, he wouldn't want to see me the next day, which puzzled me...thought we had a great time. The closer we got, the less frequent the communication. It was almost unbearable for him to be getting more familiar and affectionate with me. A couple of weeks later, he would return and become all loving and romantic again. |
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Post by cricket on Sept 3, 2017 18:54:42 GMT
Ocarina- Thanks for your response.
That sounds like such a good technique to pay attention to sensations of your body. I would not have even thought those sensations would be there. So you have the sensation but it normally doesn't register to your brain the same way? Where did you learn that technique?
I am now really learning that it's not fair or even healthy to think that everyone processes or feels things or should react in the same way. Everyone is unique and will handle things differently.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2017 20:19:57 GMT
Ocarina- Thanks for your response. That sounds like such a good technique to pay attention to sensations of your body. I would not have even thought those sensations would be there. So you have the sensation but it normally doesn't register to your brain the same way? Where did you learn that technique? I am now really learning that it's not fair or even healthy to think that everyone processes or feels things or should react in the same way. Everyone is unique and will handle things differently. That's a pleasure - I've practiced Buddhist meditation for a long while and part of what is taught is learning the ability not to drawn into emotions by noting the emotion and instead of attaching meaning to it, sitting with it and watching the feelings in the body, how they come and go, learning that emotion is labile and fleeting but that it needs acknowledging and for want of a better word holding, in order for it to dissipate. Conversely if one is unable to name or recognise a feeling it doesn't mean that the feeling isn't there - and so to access it, it can help to start to recognise the somatic sensations rather than trying to start off with the emotion, it works the other way round. Many people with alexithymia can't recognise emotion within themselves - it's not as though it doesn't happen it just isn't accessible. Starting by recognising patterns of body feelings can be a way into an inner life. If you'd like to know more I'm sure I can find some references to PM you. |
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Post by DearLover on Sept 3, 2017 22:56:43 GMT
* We were talking by the river, eating a selection of nuts that he brought. I told him that I had been on /off vegetarian and was trying really hard this time, with the goal the become a vegan eventually (he always made jokes about that kind of lifestyle but I took it as jokes, he jokes too much to be honest, it is a deflecting mechanism now I see) anyway, he proceeded to eat some salami and after offering it to me a few times and I refused for dietary reasons, suddenly shoved a piece of salami in my mouth ;O and laughed afterwards.
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Post by howpredictable on Sept 4, 2017 0:28:14 GMT
The closer we got, the less frequent the communication. It was almost unbearable for him to be getting more familiar and affectionate with me. About 3 months before we broke up, my DA ex proposed marriage (which I accepted only half-heartedly since I knew there was something seriously wrong with our relating styles... I just didn't yet know about Avoidant Attachment). And once I accepted that marriage proposal, THAT's when the REAL distancing really began. He came up with a whole new set of excuses not to see me, and eventually saw him only once a week, even though we live a short distance from each other. The sex completely dried up, also. This is what made it all so puzzling, and so hard for me to leave. The more he seemed to move us toward "official" commitment on the surface, the less true intimacy there was underneath it all. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2017 12:29:03 GMT
About 3 months before we broke up, my DA ex proposed marriage (which I accepted only half-heartedly since I knew there was something seriously wrong with our relating styles... I just didn't yet know about Avoidant Attachment). And once I accepted that marriage proposal, THAT's when the REAL distancing really began. He came up with a whole new set of excuses not to see me, and eventually saw him only once a week, even though we live a short distance from each other. The sex completely dried up, also. This is what made it all so puzzling, and so hard for me to leave. The more he seemed to move us toward "official" commitment on the surface, the less true intimacy there was underneath it all. I have been reading your posts, thank you so much, you bring a very unique perspective, since you are both Avoidant and dated a DA. I find your list really helpful, and I need to blow it up, print it out and pin it on my wall. What helps me is reading about others' experiences here - I hesitated about breaking up but when I understand that years down the road, I might be no further along in my frustrations despite being in a relationship with this Avoidant, experiencing the same crazy-making, I find it easier to shut the door. I hope I don't offend any aware DAs here, it isn't personal, as you aren't the ones affecting my life, I find it so much easier and a relief to laugh about it. It helps to mitigate the love-sick chemicals and hormones coursing through my head and my heart, when it starts to become clear how ridiculous and self-sabotaging the DAs act. It is hurtful, but I find that reason helps in smoothing the wound with the salve of clarity.  |
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Post by howpredictable on Sept 5, 2017 15:56:22 GMT
Hi Curious,
I'm glad you find my perspective helpful, and I certainly take no offence at anything that is written here by you, or anyone else. (I belong to other Psych-related forums as well, since I self-identify as having narcissistic tendencies as well, having come from a family full of people with them. So you have to be fairly thick-skinned to weather some of the posts on forums like that. Jeb's forums are like a peaceful haven, compared to some of the posts elsewhere). :-)
The real "silver lining" of having dealt with Avoidants is that it opens us up to self-reflection, on why we were drawn to them in the first place, and why were tolerated less-then-ideal relationships at all, much less for years in some cases.
In my case, my upbringing around a bunch of narcissists taught me to accept crumbs of attention and always seek validation from others. The later-life brush with the Avoidant (that I have now broken up with) allowed me to explore some of those early messages and try to overcome them. It's not easy, but it's important work.
Once you have healed from the wounds of your relationship, you might open yourself up to similar self-examination.
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Post by emkaye on Sept 5, 2017 17:19:02 GMT
Here's my 2 cents:
1. Dog-fetish (that was a previous ex) He is still pining over the loss of his dog and it's closing in on a year since her passing.
2. Responds to phone calls (if at all) with texts
3. Doesn't reciprocate "I love you"
4. Wanted to be roomates after only a few months
5. Walks ahead of you
6. Pays more attention to phone than you
7. Workaholic (I can't be in a relationship because of my demanding job)
8. Avoidant mother (after an argument she didn't speak to him in 3 months and then chose to reconnect via letter)
9. A string of vague friend-girl relationships (were they friends or in a relationship?)
10. Talks about being with you in the long term but then changes mind and talks about moving across country (I thought you would be happy for me if I moved across country -- REALLY DUDE?)
11. Defensiveness during arguments (you walk away feeling like you had to compromise yet again)
12. Can't talk about his feelings or deal with yours (told me I was too emotional)
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