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Post by howpredictable on Sept 11, 2017 21:02:13 GMT
My turn. Been with a FA female for only about a month before sh*t hit the fan. Here is what was from the start: ...This was such an unpleasant experience but still nothing compared to the borderline relationship I had. If you don't mind me saying Osemka8, if you have had more than one relationship (even short-lived) with a person who shows difficulties with intimacy, emotional attachment, etc. then it's likely because you have these issues yourself. You are drawn to these people for likely-hidden reasons of your own. It's great if you can share here and identify the red flags you should have seen earlier, but the next step is to figure out why you keep being drawn to and choosing these people in the first place, rather than those with healthier attachment and relating styles.
Obviously I don't know you, but from your chosen partner I gather you are also young, and it's best if you can identify your own patterns early before you go on to a lifetime of poor choices in relationship partners. (And I speak as a much older person who has been making poor choices her entire lifetime).
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Post by osemka8 on Sept 12, 2017 7:55:51 GMT
I agree with you there. I have no intention of going back to that or those relationships and have learnt from them. I have thought about the same issues as well and have some experiences I'm dealing with at the moment, which are focused on attachment theory.
But it's hard for me to understand or take those red flags seriously when getting infatuated with the person I start caring about. If I take myself for an example, I know that everything can be improved if you work on it. But at the same time I got aware that it takes a serious effort for others who are mentally/emotionally broken. This is the biggest problem I'm facing. I' apply my own mentality on how others should think. I know that in the past (last time in that borderline relationship) I had a "white knight complex" which I don't want to get back to. I have decided that I can help if the other one does his part, but only to the point when it doesn't do me any harm. I applied this to this last relationship I had which I am not willing to pursue, even though it was hard for me to understand.
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Post by satori on Sept 12, 2017 15:00:33 GMT
Hi osemka8,
In all due respect, I agree with howpredictable that unless we are willing to address our own issues we will continue to be drawn to the same unhealthy relationships over and over again.
I have had a history of being drawn to women that are avoidants and abusive because of the emotional, physical and verbal abuse I experienced as a child living in an alcoholic household. Based on those emotional childhood attachment injuries, I have relived the only behavior that I knew over and over again, simply because I did not know any better. While I was in those relationships I lived for those intermittent reinforcements, those emotional crumbs and gave everything that I could do to sustain the relationships, no matter the cost or how unhealthy it was for me. Innately, I also knew all along that I was not in the right place, that the emotional pain that was experiencing did not feel right, the emptiness (lost self) that I felt, and that I always wanted to be in a better place (i.e.- happy).
My last relationship was with woman who is a classic dismissive avoidant who exhibited also covert narcissistic behavior. Being with her for six and half years forced me to take a really hard look in the proverbial mirror because she was so incredibly abusive and disrespectful to me. This experience truly forced me to take a really good look at myself and my own behavior and do the hard work that is necessary to bring me to a better place. I did end up walking away from her last May and never looked back. As a result of hard work I did, the painful realizations I had to make, and the emotional discoveries I made about myself, I was able to tie everything together and learned that I equated the abuse I received throughout my relationships as love, because that is what I grew up with not knowing any better and that I somehow deserved it. Abuse is not love. That changed everything for me and feel that I finally found the answers. I finally learned to love and respect myself for who I am and that I deserve better. I am in a better place now and will never go back! The fact that you are here is a step in a right direction. Keep going and never look back! We all deserve to be in a better place.
Cheers...
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Post by howpredictable on Sept 12, 2017 15:15:42 GMT
Satori, what an excellent, self-aware contribution and a great first-person example for Osemka8. And I wish you luck in your continued journey.
Osemaka8, as Satori illustrates in his story, it's much deeper than simply looking for red flags ad being aware that you might have what I will call a "White Knight" response to some people. The underlying allure that some people have for us, is often driven by the messages and environments that we were provided (usually) in childhood, and it becomes the template for our future choices of partner and our style of relating. If you are drawn to Borderlines and Avoidants, then you have likely had a childhood were you were trained to accept or tolerate unhealthy patterns of relating.
That is where the real work needs to be focused. You seem to be on the right path here.... now roll up your sleeves and keep going. Take a look at the YouTube videos by Alan Robarge. That's a good, easy-listening kind of starting point. Good luck.
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Post by Themimms on Sept 13, 2021 13:39:04 GMT
- Talked negatively about a previous ex and that he had no wish to see her even to sort out necessary things or see their shared pet. - Talked negatively about previous exes being needy. - Admired me for my colder traits. - Had a difficult relationship with a parent through childhood.
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Post by virusbkk on Sept 22, 2021 9:45:44 GMT
1) Lack of interest & initiative - the reason a brief relationship eventuated with this one woman was because I pushed the pace and boundaries most of the time Had I waited for the woman to reach out, things would have fizzled out after the first few dates - never over-invest or overstep in the early stages You take one step forward, let the other person take the next step and so on..
2) Excessively bringing up the ex(s) - when some of the ex(s) start popping up in conversation ever so often and he/she starts wistfully talking about them, that's when you know it's going to be an uphill struggle - best to bail at that point
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Post by krolle on Sept 22, 2021 10:27:15 GMT
reading through this thread I exhibit many of the red flags.
The main one that comes to mind from the older posts is that I will often refuse to answer calls. I hate being called if it hasn't been previously arranged. Even by close friends.
hard to explain why, But I think it's related to people pleasing behaviours/conflict aversion. I know if someone calls me they can put pressure on me as I struggle to process what they're saying and struggle to understand acceptable boundaries or saying no. it's easier to guilt trip, manipulate, threaten, rush me etc on the phone as opposed to text for example. where I have time to consider my response or take the time I need to process what they are saying.
Also, This is likely specific to my situation. But I have some PTSD type responses to unsolicited calls. My cell phone vibrating for example, makes me panic. this is a pavlovian response from my relationships with BPD exes who would say, call 18 times at 2am threatening to kill themselves or threaten me or abuse/manipulate me in some form while I was tired and disoriented.
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Post by drakelane on Oct 13, 2021 5:29:36 GMT
When I look back on it, it's kinda heartbreaking and sad.
In the moments after intimacy, I would lay close to her and I realized she never opened her eyes to look at me. That gaze you share from time to time and like look into each other's soul...she never would.
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Post by krolle on Oct 13, 2021 10:50:36 GMT
When I look back on it, it's kinda heartbreaking and sad. In the moments after intimacy, I would lay close to her and I realized she never opened her eyes to look at me. That gaze you share from time to time and like look into each other's soul...she never would. I'm sorry you felt such sadness. Know you are welcome here with the rest of us trying to work out this madness that is human relating. Eye contact is a difficult red flag to interpret. I'm definately insecure, but have no problems with eye contact in an intimate setting. And in fact I really enjoy it. Though I have dated very insecure people who looking back had some strange eye contact behaviour. If you cought their gaze their eyes would quickly dart away. I should imagine it's related to self esteem.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2021 12:47:27 GMT
When I look back on it, it's kinda heartbreaking and sad. In the moments after intimacy, I would lay close to her and I realized she never opened her eyes to look at me. That gaze you share from time to time and like look into each other's soul...she never would. I'm sorry you felt such sadness. Know you are welcome here with the rest of us trying to work out this madness that is human relating. Eye contact is a difficult red flag to interpret. I'm definately insecure, but have no problems with eye contact in an intimate setting. And in fact I really enjoy it. Though I have dated very insecure people who looking back had some strange eye contact behaviour. If you cought their gaze their eyes would quickly dart away. I should imagine it's related to self esteem. The first loving eye gaze happens between mother and baby, father and baby. It's magical- when you are bonded with your baby the two of you look deeply into each other's eyes, and are enraptured with each other. The look of wonder on the baby's face is indescribably cute and touching. A mother/father/caregiver that is disconnected does not search the baby's eyes with their own like this- so that connection between eye gaze and safety isnt made. Or, maybe the baby is afraid when they look into an angry face.... so eyes aren't safe. There is some writing about this in anne12's threads. I used to be unable to sustain eye contact during most intimate moments as well. It felt painful. Maybe from experiencing what I had been missing. To hold eye contact made me sad. I don't have that issue any more, I don't know when it left but my boyfriend and I are very affectionate and look into each other's eyes.
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Post by alexandra on Oct 13, 2021 17:28:37 GMT
Lack of eye contact can also be related to being on the autism spectrum and to other conditions. It overstimulates part of the brain and isn't necessarily about attachment issues.
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Post by drakelane on Oct 15, 2021 4:58:59 GMT
When I look back on it, it's kinda heartbreaking and sad. In the moments after intimacy, I would lay close to her and I realized she never opened her eyes to look at me. That gaze you share from time to time and like look into each other's soul...she never would. I'm sorry you felt such sadness. Know you are welcome here with the rest of us trying to work out this madness that is human relating. Eye contact is a difficult red flag to interpret. I'm definately insecure, but have no problems with eye contact in an intimate setting. And in fact I really enjoy it. Though I have dated very insecure people who looking back had some strange eye contact behaviour. If you cought their gaze their eyes would quickly dart away. I should imagine it's related to self esteem. I think it was the obvious way she closed her eyes, it was like someone trying to not see a scary part of a movie. During actual sex her eyes were open, but very blank stare.
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Post by Hypatia on Nov 28, 2021 14:34:57 GMT
- kept busy 7 days a week taking classes (yoga, gymnastics, several dance classes, gum) even after a full of work -33 and never had a relationship since he was 20. Only got close to women he knew it wouldn’t work with -had a crush on me before we met (online) and immediately started taking me to fancy and expensive places...all while very awkward and uncomfortable and seemingly not in his own skin. -when we met he drank too much and played video games a lot
-later told me he hadn’t said he loved because he didn’t know what love was and had never felt it. (He eventually did say it) -we got into a small argument once and he would t speak to me for two whole days. Who knows if I would have heard from him again had I not gone over to his flat -nonstop compliments but also felt a lot of hesitation and fear from him
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2021 16:04:29 GMT
As I see it, it's very helpful to make a list of red flags we ignored in ourselves, when we enter into a situation that is detrimental to us, and remain there in spite of our inner signals that it is wrong.
For example, I remember one of my earlier relationships, the man was very emotionally labile and seemed unable or unwilling to be calm and open during the smallest of conflicts. The red flag in myself was that I mentally noted that he was emotionally immature and did not meet the standards I had for myself for fair, mature communication. I fudged my own boundaries. I accepted rude, hostile behavior and while I said it was not acceptable, I showed him that it was by continuing to engage.
When I look back I have no idea how I tolerated this except to understand that it was what I was accustomed to, to being attacked and accused by an angry person.
The relationship developed a pattern of his overblown emotional reactions and my silence while he took all his personal anger about his whole life out on me. It ended the day I finally collected my mind and upheld the boundary I THOUGHT I had, but which I wasn't able for some reason to enforce.
A list of red flags you've ignored in someone else should always lead to a list of red flags you've ignored in yourself if you'd like to change your relationship patterns and maladaptive habits.
Most often we ignore red flags in others and in ourselves because we've been triggered into old coping mechanisms that keep us stuck. For every action there's a reaction, and if we react to harmful things with habitual fear, the desire to control (or "manage") or uncertainty, we dance with them. The way to grow is to become conscious of our own reactions, and become aware of what motivates them. Often we are motivated by fear, insecurity, and mistaken beliefs. When we can address those we can develop healthy responses to "red flags", and make better relationship choices.
This applies to all areas of life, too... situations at work, with our health, how we interact with the world can all contain clues to our own habits that drag us down. Take any situation that makes you uncomfortable and analyze it this way and you can come up with clues about where you need to grow.
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Post by tnr9 on Nov 30, 2021 4:22:24 GMT
I do agree @introvert that it seems that the red flags mentioned are often about avoiding some traits in the other person instead of taking a hard look at the other side of the fence (self) and seeing what red flags exist there. I know that in my relationships I often felt as if I was the “giving” one when really I wasn’t giving at all…I was stepping over boundaries, ignoring incompatibility signs, overanalyzing wors and actions and personalizing things that were not personal at all. That is still a work in progress for me.
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