Red flags that we ignored at the beginning - post yours here

I believe an honest assessment for any of us, if we have been in dysfunctional relationships, results in having to admit that we were half of a dynamic which wouldn't have even been possible without our own dysfunctional contribution. I've never seen a person with healthy relationship skills (with self and others) bamboozled by what later is recognized as blatantly unhealthy behavior. It certainly takes two to create the kind of entanglements we read about here. Changing the internal mechanisms of insecure attachment results in a change in the partners we choose and the relationships we build.

The other thing to take into consideration that hasn't really been mentioned is when someone has directly stated boundaries that end up being casually ignored or pushed a few times. Very easy to do, possibly without realizing it, when you're insecure. Then after a few chances, to keep words and actions aligned, the healthy boundary gets more strongly enforced and seems like a wall.

I've been on both sides of this. I still had compassion for the person floundering, having been on their side of things. But I was also aware that when I was on their side of things, nothing was going to make me stop pushing the boundary because it wasn't about the other person... it was about me lacking the ability to show up for myself and self-regulate. Them not enforcing the boundary would have been enabling me. But that's also what I was conditioned to and used to happening to get my needs met because I grew up that way, where healthy boundaries were never enforced. So in an adult situation, my problem was not their problem or caused by them, but I was taking it out on them inadvertently. If they didn't protect and respect their boundaries, no one would have because I certainly couldn't.

So between two people with emotional difficulties, it probably is a wall from the outset, no flexibility, no happy medium. But if one person is insecure and the other is actually being healthy and the boundary started with room and flexibility and good communication but kept getting ignored, it may come across as lacking in compassion because the insecure person is more or less used to others having equally unhealthy boundaries. So even healthy boundaries can seem foreign or unfair to the unaware.

I agree. Though I would say most often I have seen boundaries seem to come out of the blue because they are not communicated, communicated poorly/ indirectly, or at the wrong time. But of course I'm dealing with insecure people a lot, being one myself.

Regarding your second comment, awareness has only resulted in marginal changes for me romantically. But significant changes interpersonally. I am certainly happy your relationship has seen evolution however.

This seems well said.

I do remember now stating my boundaries quiet fairly in the BPD relationship and them just being bulldozed, sometimes violently. Which is one of the reasons I then withdrew emotionally and firmly put up walls.

But before stating my boundaries I acted in a lot of ways that covertly violated hers. So she didn't have much of a chance to defend or hold them. Until it was too late, And by then she was triggered extremely anxious and hostile and strongly attached to me.
The initial love bombing phase I have been on both sides of, And boundaries don't exist during that/honeymoon phase as a method to "sell" the person an idealised version of yourself to get your needs met. To essentially dupe them. Though you could also word it more conpassionately as a fear of not getting rejected too. Ultimately it's still dishonest. Though I suppose most of us do it somewhat in a new dating environment.

No boundaries, or poorly communicated early on in the honeymoon phase to people please, get needs met. Then strongly reinforced with little warning as a defence mechanism when it's too late and you have already "Mind Fu**ed" the partner and they are basically addicted. little of this is conscious.
Also the covert violation of boundaries is not usually fully conscious. But just as devious.


What do you mean by "showing up" for yourself in a practical sense? If said this before, but the expression does not read as English to me. If that makes sense....

I think you're doing a good job analyzing and understanding and being honest about the potential mutually insecure dynamics, which is good. My opinion is, different pairings tend to result in dynamics consistent within the pairing though different pairings have different dynamics. The boundaries dance between say AP/FA is different from BPD/FA is different from DA/secure, though similar amongst all AP/FA pairings. And DA/secure all have similar patterns within that set, too.

I think romantic and closest family member relationships are the last to change, even with awareness. The family member ones are the hardest because it's a combination of you contributed to my attachment style issues in the first place making it extra sensitive coupled with they are probably not attuned or aware to repair the dynamic with you mutually. And romance is so intertwined with ego. It's common that you may see improvement and friendships and colleague interactions first, as they are not as triggered and deeply ingrained with wounding. And I've said it before and have a thread on it, but I don't think I started dating as healthy as I could have until a year or more out from testing secure and having full awareness and different thought patterns.

I'm not sure which showing up you're referring to. I say it sometimes but hadn't in that post. Did you mean, "If they didn't protect and respect their boundaries, no one would have because I certainly couldn't." ?

I meant sometimes you need to put your own needs first because it's what you need and not doing so isn't helping anyone, and there's nothing wrong with that choice if you've treated the other person with respect. If I know you reasonably well, and I've communicated directly, stated what I needed or what I was uncomfortable with, was not abusive or manipulative towards you, heard you out / acknowledged you, and have been consistent, but you continue violating my boundaries because you have a conflicting need that I can't or don't want to meet, then I have been fair and need to do what makes me comfortable even if it's not what you want. I am in charge of keeping myself emotionally regulated. That is what showing up for myself would mean in this context if I'm the one holding a healthy boundary.

If I don't know you well, I probably won't be as patient and flexible because I don't owe you anything and I'm being projected on. Which makes it even more important I look out for myself if I feel pushed in some negative way. Our instincts and gut feelings are there for a reason (even though I'm speaking from experience that when you have an insecure attachment style those reasons can get super conflated with a bunch of other unrelated things).