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Post by tnr9 on Feb 9, 2021 4:30:08 GMT
So...I would like to suggest a slight change.....Because starting off with “you did” puts the other person on the defensive. The best way is to start with I statements because in all fairness.....it isn’t her action that you are trying to address but your reaction. I feel x when i notice you doing y. Hmm....good one. I shall try that. That is IF I can arrest my protest behaviour before it wrecks everything. Protest behaviors are there for a reason...usually it is a signal that a need is not being met or a boundary is being crossed. I would suggest exploring that a bit. Also.....remove the negative thinking about wrecking everything....rarely are relationship issues one sided. |
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Post by dullboat123 on Feb 9, 2021 4:55:13 GMT
Protest behaviors are there for a reason...usually it is a signal that a need is not being met or a boundary is being crossed. I would suggest exploring that a bit. Also.....remove the negative thinking about wrecking everything....rarely are relationship issues one sided. Yes whilst I agree that protest behaviours are there for a reason, there are more mature ways of handling it without wrecking relationships like that with friends or even my parents other than my partner. I've had a review of my past blow outs with my friends and family, with comments from my friends to strengthen it, things that comes out of my mouth tends to cut people deep. So I guess perhaps its not an attachment issue, its an issue of tact. Might be a combination of both where me protesting, I would completely lose my tact and empathy. |
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 9, 2021 5:35:15 GMT
Protest behaviors are there for a reason...usually it is a signal that a need is not being met or a boundary is being crossed. I would suggest exploring that a bit. Also.....remove the negative thinking about wrecking everything....rarely are relationship issues one sided. Yes whilst I agree that protest behaviours are there for a reason, there are more mature ways of handling it without wrecking relationships like that with friends or even my parents other than my partner. I've had a review of my past blow outs with my friends and family, with comments from my friends to strengthen it, things that comes out of my mouth tends to cut people deep. So I guess perhaps its not an attachment issue, its an issue of tact. Might be a combination of both where me protesting, I would completely lose my tact and empathy. Right...but in order to have more mature ways of handling things....it first requires understanding what need is not being met or boundary is being crossed. Only then can you come up with better tools to address things. It may be that you have an anger or impulsivity issue on top of your attachment issues....however, these usually form in childhood as a result of learning certain ways of dealing with trauma. So, maybe your protest behaviors are more like a 5 year old kid who feels angry or embarrassed and instead of being able to verbalize it...instead lashes out. Insecure attachment in part is being stuck with a limited tool box of responses and therapy is the opportunity to learn some new tools. But those tools won’t stick if you don’t know what you were trying to convey through the protest behavior. Look for patterns...not only in how you protest and why you protest but also when you protest. I used to have really bad protest behaviors after spending time with my mom. I used to call them ripples......I felt judged by her, so I find myself getting short and judging others....mainly while driving. Look for patterns and be curious towards yourself. |
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Post by alexandra on Feb 9, 2021 5:49:25 GMT
To add to tnr9... feeling fear of abandonment is a huge trigger of protest behavior in APs. And as she said, it's the little kid who learned certain behaviors maybe worked with inconsistent caretakers earlier in life. Maybe they only paid attention if you yelled. Maybe you felt powerless because you stayed quiet and learned to lash out at others who weren't as big (as these inconsistent adult attachment figures) instead. Maybe you felt your boundaries violated and only lashing out in anger stopped it. The little kid is still responding to stress and fear in that same way, but doesn't need to because he is an adult now and can take care of himself without depending on adults for physical survival. It may be any or none of those things, but attachment wounding runs deep. Being triggered anxious means your nervous system gets flooded and desperate to stay connected to someone who may be emotionally unsafe, looking externally to be soothed. Being curious, as she says, lets you learn what triggers you and connects you better with your underlying needs. All insecure attachers struggle with stress and not having tools to cope in a healthy way with triggers (which can be anxious flooding or avoidant shutdown). Common responses in these cases are fight (like you're doing), freeze, flight, and/or fawning behaviors. These things are all tied together... I agree to keep exploring the patterns in the circumstances around when you've lashed out at people over the years. What response did you hope for from the other person? What response did they give you instead, and did further protesting make it worse? What might you tell yourself to calm down the bad feelings instead of lashing out? What did you want to hear someone say and can you be kind to yourself and say it to yourself instead? |
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Post by alexandra on Feb 9, 2021 5:52:24 GMT
I would completely lose my.... empathy. Very good and important insight!! Insecure attachers tend to lose empathy temporarily when triggered. This is normal and in line with other peoples' experiences, and can absolutely be overcome over time! |
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Post by dullboat123 on Feb 9, 2021 6:18:03 GMT
To add to tnr9 ... feeling fear of abandonment is a huge trigger of protest behavior in APs. And as she said, it's the little kid who learned certain behaviors maybe worked with inconsistent caretakers earlier in life. Maybe they only paid attention if you yelled. Maybe you felt powerless because you stayed quiet and learned to lash out at others who weren't as big (as these inconsistent adult attachment figures) instead. Maybe you felt your boundaries violated and only lashing out in anger stopped it. The little kid is still responding to stress and fear in that same way, but doesn't need to because he is an adult now and can take care of himself without depending on adults for physical survival. It may be any or none of those things, but attachment wounding runs deep. Being triggered anxious means your nervous system gets flooded and desperate to stay connected to someone who may be emotionally unsafe, looking externally to be soothed. Being curious, as she says, lets you learn what triggers you and connects you better with your underlying needs. All insecure attachers struggle with stress and not having tools to cope in a healthy way with triggers (which can be anxious flooding or avoidant shutdown). Common responses in these cases are fight (like you're doing), freeze, flight, and/or fawning behaviors. These things are all tied together... I agree to keep exploring the patterns in the circumstances around when you've lashed out at people over the years. What response did you hope for from the other person? What response did they give you instead, and did further protesting make it worse? What might you tell yourself to calm down the bad feelings instead of lashing out? What did you want to hear someone say and can you be kind to yourself and say it to yourself instead? Thank you for your input tnr9. Another AP/protest behaviour that I have is that I can't take no for an answer if it even lightly touches on the notion of abandonment. First my empathy goes as alarm bells goes off in my mind, then the protest behaviours come to try to manipulate the other party to give me what I want. The more I can't accept no because accepting it means getting abandoned, the more my protest behaviour escalates. Hence why it escalated to jumping into the back of her car. I am lucky she did not press charges. Ultimately I can change but it still takes her to come to the table and that's the thing that throws me. I do not know if she will ever come back though she is unwilling to let me go. She knows that letting me go means she will never see or talk to me ever again. She also knows that despite my protest behaviours, I am willing to take a bullet for her. For her, no one in her life had given her such devotion. |
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Post by dullboat123 on Feb 9, 2021 6:18:41 GMT
I would completely lose my.... empathy. Very good and important insight!! Insecure attachers tend to lose empathy temporarily when triggered. This is normal and in line with other peoples' experiences, and can absolutely be overcome over time! Oh that's good to know that this bad habit can be kicked! |
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Post by anne12 on Feb 9, 2021 6:59:54 GMT
What kind of therapy do you do ? Is your therapist also trained in se (somatic experiencing) among other things ? To me you sound like someone in survival mode - you can both have fa and ap and other kind of trauma at the same time, maybe combined with something else ? Also being with a narc for 16 years can fuck you up....Your body might have wanted you to fight or flee, but you stayed for so many years, so that you might have been walking around in a kind of freeze state with all this survival energy repressed underneath the surface. Having your boundaries crushed, your soul crushed and being isolated from your family and friends. Like driving a car while pressing down the gaspedal and the brake down at the same time. You can release the brake with tiny micro steps by using titrating and pendulation (SE tools) with a well trained SE/attatchmnet/trauma therapist. Dr. Ramani - How does being with a narcissist affect your body, mind, and soul? www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=eJr1WQyNpH4"Cognitive Freezing" in a Narcissistic Relationship; Plus 4 Tips to Thaw Out! www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=7pzhdTm9TTgDr. Ramani - men who are in relationships with narc women - www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHdNWQsAr5gYou need to put something in between impact - reaction: Impact => Reaction (where you may think things are just happening to you - your felings and reactions happens automatically) When you take control, that is, that you are proactive, you make a conscious choice between t he influence and the reaction. It looks like this: Impact => choice => (re) action! Are you doing any of the selfregulating exercises jebkinnisonforum.com/thread/880/self-regulating-regulation-exercises-ectjebkinnisonforum.com/thread/1073/healing-disorganized-attatchment-chock-trauma |
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Post by annieb on Feb 9, 2021 13:49:28 GMT
Just to chime in, with therapy you can overcome a lot of this. For example, the abandonment issues. My whole life used to be ruled by fear of abandonment and within about a year of therapy, abandonment isn’t even a thing anymore, it isn’t something I ever feel or think about. It just completely disappeared. Gone. If I think about how it felt, it’s almost like I can’t understand it. It seems silly now.
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 9, 2021 14:21:29 GMT
I realize you are using this as an example...and it is a good insight into the type of behaviors you want to address with your therapist. I agree with anne12 in her question regarding the type of therapy you are getting. I am seeing an Somatic experiencing therapist and have found it to be incredibly helpful. Trauma gets stored in the body and an SE therapist can help you unlock it. When I feel angry or embarrassed...I feel it in my throat...my therapist and I have discovered that I have a history of feeling like I had no voice, no say in the things that were going on around me that impacted me...ie...parent’s divorce, custody battle, moves, my parents choices of new partners and getting remarried. I was so disconnected from this need to have a “choice” while I was reacting in unaware ways. Choice is very, very important to me now, so I try to honor that as much as possible. Finding out the trauma has helped to determine the triggers and knowing the triggers has allowed me to find ways to take a pause and make more mature choices.
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Post by tnr9 on Feb 9, 2021 14:28:50 GMT
Just to chime in, with therapy you can overcome a lot of this. For example, the abandonment issues. My whole life used to be ruled by fear of abandonment and within about a year of therapy, abandonment isn’t even a thing anymore, it isn’t something I ever feel or think about. It just completely disappeared. Gone. If I think about how it felt, it’s almost like I can’t understand it. It seems silly now. And just for another example...I have been in therapy for decades.....so there is no right or wrong timeline when dealing with trauma. 🙂 |
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Post by dullboat123 on Feb 9, 2021 23:09:14 GMT
Just to chime in, with therapy you can overcome a lot of this. For example, the abandonment issues. My whole life used to be ruled by fear of abandonment and within about a year of therapy, abandonment isn’t even a thing anymore, it isn’t something I ever feel or think about. It just completely disappeared. Gone. If I think about how it felt, it’s almost like I can’t understand it. It seems silly now. Wow. Thank you for your input Annieb. It is surely encouraging and assuring to hear that the fear of abandonment can be eliminated. |
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Post by dullboat123 on Feb 9, 2021 23:13:56 GMT
I realize you are using this as an example...and it is a good insight into the type of behaviors you want to address with your therapist. I agree with anne12 in her question regarding the type of therapy you are getting. I am seeing an Somatic experiencing therapist and have found it to be incredibly helpful. Trauma gets stored in the body and an SE therapist can help you unlock it. When I feel angry or embarrassed...I feel it in my throat...my therapist and I have discovered that I have a history of feeling like I had no voice, no say in the things that were going on around me that impacted me...ie...parent’s divorce, custody battle, moves, my parents choices of new partners and getting remarried. I was so disconnected from this need to have a “choice” while I was reacting in unaware ways. Choice is very, very important to me now, so I try to honor that as much as possible. Finding out the trauma has helped to determine the triggers and knowing the triggers has allowed me to find ways to take a pause and make more mature choices. OMG I feel the same thing too! When I am raging, I almost always feel a lump in my throat! And putting 2 and 2 together, I too realized that growing up, in an Asian household, I have absolutely no voice whatsoever! All my life, from my extra curricular activities to my choice of course in Uni, my mum dictates it! My feelings or emotions were never validated as in Asia, its what the parents want. Not what the child wants. That was back in the 80s. Not now. I will certainly talk to my therapist about this. I am currently reaching out to my company's employee's assistance program so I don't know what sort of therapist I am getting. |
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Post by dullboat123 on Feb 11, 2021 0:45:38 GMT
Update: Talked to my therapist yesterday who married an avoidant. He said I need to focus on myself on how to work it so that I do not let her trigger me and in turn, trigger her. I need to be the rock in her life whereby she can feel safe and slowly open up to me.
When I asked about my chances of her coming back, he said she might just be recovering since she doesn't want to let me go. That or she is just waiting for me to walk away first. He said look at the signs and be positive. That she always comes back and for now, she is not letting me go.
At the end of the day, its all still messy and I need time to process all this.
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Post by dullboat123 on Feb 12, 2021 0:53:17 GMT
I asked her and she kept saying "I don't know if I want to try again". I know I am putting her on the spot and pressuring her when it is not needed. I just want some certainty. I don't know what to do now and it hurts so so much especially today is Chinese New Year and I'm all alone. I'm not in a great mental state now.
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