Did my DA try hard enough?

I certainly agree with a lot you have to say doctora. Same as I agree with a lot of what Dullboats has to say.

You are both right that a healthy relationship with a very avoidant partner who is unaware is all but impossible and painful.

I also agree with you that it is very difficult to simply say "this isn't working for me" and leave. There's so much investment and feelings and hope, and often love. It's never quiet so logical or clear as to just be ok with quitting someone, even if it's in your best interest to do so.

And much like you, I actually experience anger (one of the few emotions I can experience) at the thinking "you should have left if it wasn't working" because it feel invalidating to how difficult that is. I think that's one of the things you're getting at when you say it's like victim blaming.

The advice we are given here is unfortunately sound though, as much as I hate it. We have to look at ourselves because that's all we have control over. Not because we want it to be that way. It's complete dogsh*t that's the way it is. But that is the way it is. And it's what a secure person would do. Which I am not.

If we could make our ex partners see sense it would be awesome. But it rarely happens. And certainly not by blaming them.

In addition I would concur that avoidants are a limiting factor in a relationship. But so are anxious types. It's just less obvious usually.
An avoidant partner will often become more secure with a secure partner the same way an anxious will become more secure with one.

The attachment strategy of anxious types triggers the wounds of avoidant types, and vice versa. In a dysfunctional cycle. Saying one is right or wrong is not very useful to us.

I think you would get a lot of mileage out of Pia Mellody's book. Facing love addiction. It explains how both attachment styles are really very similar under the surface. It's just that one's subconscious fears and the others conscious ones and vice versa.

I feel your pain, and Dullboats.

What tnr9 says. It's an actual question, not a loaded or blame-y statement. If you don't know the answer beyond "because I love them," it's a good place to start the deeper digging about what is going on in the fuller big picture.

When that was my answer, I didn't understand how attachment works, functional (versus dysfunctional) relationships, or the over- and under-coupling link I share (which basically is about getting triggered and how past is subconsciously connected to current). I just knew both Hollywood movies and my existing family dynamics said push your own needs down and never give up on another person (ie attempting to emotionally regulate others and expecting that from them as well), so that was normalized instead of asking more questions about myself. It didn't even seem like there was a deeper surface at first, so I didn't even know how to deal with that question.

And dear lord, have several of my exes been extremely avoidant or personality disordered. Textbook, occasionally awful. It's not like they've been almost secure avoidants. I may not talk about specific details about what they did or said that much because it's a public forum and I don't want to be identifying, but the more extreme the avoidance and opposite of my textbook anxious, the more it hurt but eventually helped me because I was at such a loss for understanding what was happening that it eventually got me to that deeper than surface level of what the heck is actually going on?

In my case, we went as far as couples therapy but looking back, its actually MY therapy because we spent zero time talking about her issues. We came to the agreement that for both of us to work towards secure, whenever she wants to distance herself out of anxiety, she helps me by sending a picture of an alien. To signal me to give her space. She did that ONCE and I gave her space till she reached out again. Once was all she stuck to her end of the deal. Simple as that. No lengthy messages, no explaining why, no phone calls, just sending me a picture of an alien. And she can't even keep that up where that is the BARE MINIMUM, yet turn around and accuse me of making her feel on edge when she didn't honour her end of the deal. 

 

Everyone earnestly seeking answers deserves to have as good and accurate information as possible, it makes the world a better and healthier place. I am very comfortable being blocked by anyone who finds my input unhelpful and uninformed as it pertains to their situation. For anyone in need of technical assistance, in a desktop view you choose a user's profile name, then choose block member by clicking the gear icon.

No my ex wife is a narcissist. Though not officially diagnosed, which I believe your ex, B is not either, my ex wife ticked almost all of the boxes on narcissistic traits. Thus when I met my avoidant ex, I was hyper-vigilant on narcissistic traits, which I did pick up 1 or 2 (avoidants does have narcissistic traits)....but I didn't know then, of this species of humans called "avoidants" and the shit they do. 

I don't know if you've noticed but the MAJORITY of new people coming on here after their encounter with avoidants, are in a highly confused and distressed state, after trying everything they can to save the relationship. Most people who came on here are still having their avoidant exes on a pedestal. Most are still longing for their avoidants to reach out again and give the relationship another chance.


But me knowing the flipping, flopping and time wasting string along behaviours of avoidants, I'm here to hammer in the point to them to cut their losses and run - even when their avoidant exes reach back out again. Most of the cases are that they've done everything they can to try to save the relationship with an avoidant but the avoidant did LESS THAN THE BARE MINIMUM. There's a book on it that tells people to look for avoidant red flags and specifically not to date them. Its called "Bad Boyfriends" by Jeb Kinnison. Have you read the book yet? 

The only time Jeb touched on looking at one's internal dynamic is when BOTH the avoidant and the avoidant's partner are committed to working things through and BOTH going through therapy. Or else, avoid the avoidant! 


I know I haven't been here long but I already have people messaging me, telling me how unstable you guys sound, harping on the same point over and over again to different people, while totally not acknowledging the abusive behaviours of the avoidant. 

Ask Jeb why he wrote a book about how shitty avoidants are and avoid getting into relationships with them.