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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2021 14:25:55 GMT
Introvert, thank you for your kind words. But I don't know if I have a potential to be a good partner. Who am I? I am scared that I was so invested, caring and dependable because I needed to pursue. Why? Because in my past relationships with AP and SA I was acting different. After initial period of relationship I deactivated and was stable in my deactivation. I neglected my partners needs, picking their flaws as dealbreakers, doubt my feelings. It was my first relationship in which I was so commited and invested into, even that my first LTR (where we engaged) was kind of secure and very balanced emotionally. In the margin, I can see now how, after 4 years of stable relationship I've acted AP when she started her first job practice and was totally into it, so I felt like she abandoned me. I remember that I used so many protest behaviors and was so terrible, that she in fact abandoned me emotionally and then she did monkey branching. So I am trying to discover myself and my motivations. The fact is that family-life was very satisfying itself, it gave me fine addition to my meaning and purpose of life. I felt good running house, cooking together and raising a kid. And yes, relationship with this kid was really genuine, something special, stable and healthy. Being a dad can be one of greatest role for a man in his life. But I could have the same with at least three girls from my past. And they were invested in me. But I didn't want to. And all of them are now in happy marriages and kids. I've made a step back in my healing, but I stopped to blame myself, because I recognize this as a journey, and moving back can be a lesson as well. Yes, I will take my own pace. After that meeting with my ex at Thursday I had that feeling that she was pulling away, because I showed up as open to negotiations and serious talks about reconciliation. She ceased communication, stopped being vulnerable and open. So I anxiously pushed today, showing my vulnerability and looking for reasurrance of her feeling she communicated just few days ago, because I felt "thrown away". I get no response, so there is even more anxiety. I feel that she is so selfish, because in the last few weeks, when she showed up with vulnerability and poor mental state, I always reasurred her that I care, text her back or have a talk. I strongly suspected that she soothed her anxiety, recharge her batteries with my recent availability, and sailed away happily. Alexandra and Introvert, your posts are a reminders to me. I read them when I am abandoning myself, when I know I need to get back on the track, or at least somewhere near it. It helps me when my sick mind is trying to lie me, sabotage myself. Days like these are a struggle and I now there will be more to come. It seems you are just getting deeper in your awareness of how insecure attachment operates. It's a lot of focusing outward when what's inside is something you are not equipped to handle. In your case, focusing on her unavailability and being so sure about what she needs to do to change takes the focus off of all the fears and concerning behaviors you've noted in yourself, above. So, while the realizations are painful, they are part of the process and evidence that you are indeed on the right track as long as you take therapy and hard work on yourself forward with you. Of course you have the potential to be a good partner, your motivations for being and doing the things you want to be and do will become more genuine (authentic) as you heal. I've been and done the right things for the wrong reasons too, all of us have.... but that doesn't mean that's all there is to it. You can bring your dad skills into a healthier picture, or you can choose not to parent if you discover that's part of a persona that isn't the truest res presentation of who you are... you've yet to discover all that. Im sorry you're struggling but that's part of it too. Getting so sick and tired of being sick and tired goes along with all this it seems, and can be a powerful motivator to keep moving toward The Light, so to speak. Hang in there, you're on the roller coaster. I don't think anyone here will think less of you, having been there themselves. |
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dexter
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Post by dexter on Dec 11, 2021 15:06:15 GMT
It seems you are just getting deeper in your awareness of how insecure attachment operates. It's a lot of focusing outward when what's inside is something you are not equipped to handle. In your case, focusing on her unavailability and being so sure about what she needs to do to change takes the focus off of all the fears and concerning behaviors you've noted in yourself, above.
You nailed it. Yesterday I've realized that sometimes it is still uneasy to listen what she says. Listen and take into consideration what she says. When we've had our relationship talk, she was explaining to me why she picked so many fights with me and why she sometimes treated my like an enemy. Well, it was very contrary to what I think, so I protested strongly, interrupted her, and again tried to explain her push&pull dynamics, deactivation states and my protest behaviors. It's like "I know everything what is going on with you and me, just sit and fucking listen!". I imagine how she can feel in such moment - that she's unseen, her emotions are unseen, and forcing my point of view so fiercely can be overwhelming. That behavior pops up when I feel anxious. Because when I feel anxious about relationship I am in a great need of control, because sense of control means safety.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2021 15:34:47 GMT
It seems you are just getting deeper in your awareness of how insecure attachment operates. It's a lot of focusing outward when what's inside is something you are not equipped to handle. In your case, focusing on her unavailability and being so sure about what she needs to do to change takes the focus off of all the fears and concerning behaviors you've noted in yourself, above.
You nailed it. Yesterday I've realized that sometimes it is still uneasy to listen what she says. Listen and take into consideration what she says. When we've had our relationship talk, she was explaining to me why she picked so many fights with me and why she sometimes treated my like an enemy. Well, it was very contrary to what I think, so I protested strongly, interrupted her, and again tried to explain her push&pull dynamics, deactivation states and my protest behaviors. It's like "I know everything what is going on with you and me, just sit and fucking listen!". I imagine how she can feel in such moment - that she's unseen, her emotions are unseen, and forcing my point of view so fiercely can be overwhelming. That behavior pops up when I feel anxious. Because when I feel anxious about relationship I am in a great need of control, because sense of control means safety.
You're getting a lot of great insight!! I am more DA than FA but I can attest to feeling very unseen in the face of an anxious person's anxiety- And earlier in my relationship this problem presented as well. My partner would presume to define my internal states and denied the validity of my own representation of myself.... it brings feelings of anger and despair and futility to be so obliterated by another's energies. All you can do is keep on this path of awareness about yourself. Remember that being self aware does not make her aware- I could see it being sort of a trap for an anxious person to think "Well if I can do better this relationship can have a chance!" That's only true if the other person is doing the same thing, and showing results of that without prodding or control efforts on your part. I think you're doing good, to realize these things. Other anxious posters could provide better feedback than me of course, they may see something I don't! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2021 15:46:05 GMT
Oh, and yes, it does feel like an anxious person's overwhelming need to control is something of an "enemy"... something to protect oneself from. I can remember , in old dynamics of my insecure past relationships, feeling as though I wanted to lie down and go to sleep and never wake up in the moment of overwhelm, when I couldn't get a word in edgewise, and when the other persons view of me / the situation was so forcefully imposed. I felt so trapped and defeated. Why even exist in that relationship, why even try? There was no Me in that moment, only the swirling insecurity of the other, which I am powerless to confront. That is a terrible position to be in, and will evoke survival responses.
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Post by alexandra on Dec 11, 2021 19:50:18 GMT
But I don't know if I have a potential to be a good partner. Who am I? I am scared that I was so invested, caring and dependable because I needed to pursue. Why? Because in my past relationships with AP and SA I was acting different. There's no reason why all these concepts can't be true at once. You have the potential, but you're also not ready yet because you're in the middle of new awareness and therapy. That's okay. It's okay to need to take a break from dating if things don't work out with your ex so that you can keep working on this stuff and heal your past more and learn the relationship skills you need to have to unlock that potential. That doesn't mean the potential isn't there. It means you need to figure out more about who you are, as you have asked. You're learning you want a family and it makes you feel good and fulfilled to have a child. Step back a little from this idea, though, for just a minute. You don't know who you are but like being able to define yourself as a father and family man. Those are laudable goals and responsibilities, but they also still depend on others to define who you are. And then you experience lack of control and identity when they're not going as well as you wish because you still cannot define yourself outside of others. You can be a father and family man while still taking some time to connect to yourself and figuring who you are, what you like to do, what makes you feel satisfied and accomplished that doesn't rely on anyone else's opinion. When someone is attracted to avoidance, they lack trust in self. When someone is attracted to anxiety, they lack trust in others. When someone isn't attracted to secure, they don't know how to relate when their nervous system isn't overwhelmed because they're forced to sit with themselves in the quiet space where there would otherwise be drama, and that is too difficult. It either feels like pain or boredom. Awareness doesn't immediately fix all this, but it provides the roadmap for identifying the areas that need work and healing. Being aware that you don't know who you are at this time reveals you'll need to put some effort into finding out. There's a bunch of threads buried throughout the forum discussing this same concept and how to do that, so it's not just you who has gone through this. |
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Post by doctora on Dec 13, 2021 5:53:17 GMT
I agree with @introvert, and I think you're going in with your eyes wide open about what to expect. Another cycle of situationship that will be painful. But sometimes we have to go through those until we are in enough pain to learn the lesson finally and move on. Based on what you said, and my own experiences reconciling with an ambivalent FA plus me myself moving from an insecure to a secure mindset, I can tell you this. Someone who has difficulty communicating in the ways she experienced, who does not lead the reconciliation conversation when you actually have it face to face, who does not show strict actions aligning with words, who is inconsistent on follow through, and who still expresses doubt (she's not sure if it's about you or her loneliness) is not ready to deal with real reconciliation. Only fantasy and spinning back through their cycle. It's extremely different when someone wants to change as a partner and actually does it. My ex never got out of the mindset she's in, and I did, so I can tell you with complete certainty that it's a whole different ballgame when someone is serious about showing up. And it starts with themselves and working through their communication and ambivalence. She's not there. She's not even on her way there yet. Continue to keep your eyes open and really think about what you want and why you'd be willing to try again before she's ready. Yes, this is totally it. And like you, dexter, I went in with my eyes wide open and committed, and there were the same reasons to hopeful, the slight increase in self awareness on their part….but then the same lack of follow through, expression of doubts, and when the actions don’t align, as alexandra put it so well. If they aren’t committed to staying the course and working through their deactivations it’s simply not going to work. They may have moments of lucidity and even be aware of the fact that they do these things and still not work through it when it happens. Incredibly frustrating - but like everyone here this is why you gotta remind yourself that your standards are rightfully high for how she would need to show up…and you cannot accept anything less (and understand that she may never show up in a way that could lead to a healthy reconciliation, and that for now you must move on and go deeper with your own work on strengthening your identity. |
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Post by doctora on Dec 13, 2021 6:00:12 GMT
That is so dissapointing and sad to see her not by her potential (which is in fact a fantasy) but through her real actions and behavior. She even doesn't seem to understand why what she said was a dealbreaker to me and texted me about it. I even don't think I need to explain. I must say something about her therapy. I was bashed here two months ago for critizing her therapist. I've never told that to her and never will, but I am very certain about it. I think that a therapist that dismiss attachment theory as useful in therapy (probably because she is not familiar with it) can do more harm to avoidant than help him. Her therapist even told her two months ago that I am manipulating her trying to convince her that she has attachment issues. She clearly said that fear of intimacy is not an issue (because she had no fear of it in relationship with...unavailable married guy which she fought for; and my ex used that argument when she was resisting couple therapy). Her deactivations, doubts and occasional annoyance are because she is just not into me. And her only problem is that she is afraid to be alone and has problem of setting proper boundaries. Even yesterday she was convincing my ex that her longing for me is just because she's feeling lonely. I think that she keeps to that therapist for over two years because she is validating her behaviors. When we were at couples therapy it was soooo different - almost instantly therapist adressed our avoidant/anxious dance, her fear of intimacy, her deactivation strategies and my protest behaviors. I think that we here in Europe are far behind US in terms of att theory popularization among professionals. What I found mostly are publications about Bowlby theories regarding childhood, but little to none publications about childhood attachment influence in adult relationships. This is so true. The first couples therapist we hired didn’t know about attachment theory and I had just discovered it, and he kept remarking that I was criticizing my ex when I had literally just recognized his behaviors as matching a description of an avoidant. He (the therapist) had never heard of avoidants. At worst this made my avoidant ex deactivate further and feel encouraged in his deactivation, and actually at best my ex defended my observations once to the therapist (admitting that he relates completely to the description in Jeb’s book).. Ugh. We ended up restarting the situationship again later (this was last year, not this last go round…so penultimate breakup) and went to an attachment therapist who, despite getting somewhere with us, witnessed him breaking up with me later on. In that case, even the attachment therapist who was pretty badass and straight up with him wasn’t able to get through to him during his deactivation. Whether even really good therapy works still mainly depends on the resolve of the avoidant to work through the ambivalence and deactivation (and we know the AP has resolve, that’s one thing we have no issue with  ) One thing I can tell you that helped me for myself though was having her bear witness to his deactivation toward the end - she was able to validate that he was extremely avoidant, and this did set me free a little bit from the self blame and taking too much responsibility. |
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Post by doctora on Dec 13, 2021 6:11:19 GMT
I can (strongly) agree that I've pushed her (and my own) boundaries pursuing her, regardless of rejections. I know it's probably APish, but I feel resistant when I read "she reaches you because of her insecure parenting". It's APish, because I would like to be sure that she loved me. I want to be loved by the person that I've invested so much emotionally. It's a self esteem thing. She didn't faked affection and chemistry, she can't. Because I saw when she tried when she was deactivating. She is a very bad actor. During that three years I felt lot of love and affection for months. She was great and this, with a combination of intermittent reinforcement makes it so hard to forget. And yeah, we had so much in common in terms of everyday life, values and all that matters - what she mentioned today when "praising me" (dunno really what for). I could have written this. I can’t believe how identical the feelings seem to be amongst the APs in the situation. I don’t have any insight here, just thag I know EXACTLY how you feel. And not related but I didn’t realize that both of our exes are doctors. In my old threads I would ask about the love thing a lot. Because when you’re rejected so many times it makes you feel like an idiot, like am I really that pathetic that I just threw myself at someone who doesn’t love me? Did I just force them to love me when they really don’t? I guess I am super AP…didn’t I make big strides becoming more secure? It’s a huge mindfuck. Indeed the intermittent reinforcement (which isn’t done on purpose - none of this AP/DA dance is on purpose) is like a brain hack. So give yourself a bit of a break because intermittent reinforcement is extremely powerful.. Remember that avoidants sometimes can’t feel their feelings in real time, or something. Or their feelings can change with distance. Essentially they may have the love and attachment feelings when you’re distant…they remember all the things they love about you and your time together and may even have “soulmate” fantasies as well… but they don’t experience this love when you’re right in front of them, or getting closer, or after becoming more available or requiring your needs to be met. They feel irritated. Annoyed. Stifled. It’s both. however mature love - like everyone talked about - is based on self love, and it can withstand the ambivalence, to a certain degree. The hard part of mature love, for the avoidant, seems to be the act of deploying activating strategies when you becone aware that your feelings might threaten the relationship. The insane part for me, was that at the start of the couples therapy, my ex could freely remember things he loved about me, like name things and have access to memories. When he deactivated during therapy, he could not. He didn’t remember things. It’s like he had a VR headset on because he was not in the same reality as during the start of therapy - the only thing thag changed was that we were at a stage that required relationship work, and not just fantasizing and planning to do work. Love is not useful or nourishing without aligned, CONSISTENT loving actions in real time done by both partners. Please remember this She will always feel loving feelings for you probably. Who knows… But she may repress them. I know - a mindfuck. What is a feeling if it’s not felt after all?  I used to waste time wondering whether their love was real or not…based on if their repression would inevitably tire at some point, like a weakening dam against a river….like if they couldn’t help but miss you terribly at some point, if those loving feelings continually pop up without them wanting them to, then it’s love. Ugh. At the end of the day - who cares? It’s not the love that nourishes you and makes you happier, healthier, more successful. It’s inadequate! |
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Post by doctora on Dec 13, 2021 6:31:38 GMT
I agree with @introvert, and I think you're going in with your eyes wide open about what to expect. Another cycle of situationship that will be painful. But sometimes we have to go through those until we are in enough pain to learn the lesson finally and move on. Based on what you said, and my own experiences reconciling with an ambivalent FA plus me myself moving from an insecure to a secure mindset, I can tell you this. Someone who has difficulty communicating in the ways she experienced, who does not lead the reconciliation conversation when you actually have it face to face, who does not show strict actions aligning with words, who is inconsistent on follow through, and who still expresses doubt (she's not sure if it's about you or her loneliness) is not ready to deal with real reconciliation. Only fantasy and spinning back through their cycle. It's extremely different when someone wants to change as a partner and actually does it. My ex never got out of the mindset she's in, and I did, so I can tell you with complete certainty that it's a whole different ballgame when someone is serious about showing up. And it starts with themselves and working through their communication and ambivalence. She's not there. She's not even on her way there yet. Continue to keep your eyes open and really think about what you want and why you'd be willing to try again before she's ready. Yes, this is totally it. And like you, dexter, I went in with my eyes wide open and committed, and there were the same reasons to hopeful, the slight increase in self awareness on their part….but then the same lack of follow through, expression of doubts, and when the actions don’t align, as alexandra put it so we’ll. If they aren’t committed to staying the course and working through their deactivations it’s simply not going to work. They may have moments of lucidity and even be aware of the fact that they do these things and still not work through it when it happens. Incredibly frustrating - but like everyone here this is why you gotta hold the standard high for how she shows up and do not accept anything less (and understand that she may never show up in a way that could lead to a healthy reconciliation). The reality is that she is not, obviously. also I am editing this comment after reading this thread til the end - this thread is amazing!!! |
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dexter
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Post by dexter on Jan 6, 2022 16:06:31 GMT
Hello everybody.
Thanks for your posts, and hope you are doing well in New Year.
Doctora, I've read your posts carefully and yes - I would wite EVERYTHING myself as well. What I find most difficult to get over with is that I know that we've had so much in common and love was genuine (both her words), and the push and pull dynamics was literally a proof.
I left that subject for some time, because I've told myself that I won't dig deeper into past. I tried to focus on myself, and it went pretty good. Till this Sunday and I need you perspective guys.
As you may remember, mont ago I hit the wall again. Wall which she built after being vulnerable and admitted doubts and longing for me. I've proposed going back to couple therapy, and she shut down, even with anger! Went no contact, only calling her son before Christmas to wish him very best. I thought it was our last contact.
Christmas was a hard time for me. But days after were better and better. My anxiety was still there, but it was better. She called me a day before NYE and started to explain her angry behaviour which happened 10 days earlier. I was stressed and didn't want to talk about it. Said that there is no need to explain, I want space and contact her lately in next year, when I will be OK with that. Two days later I realised that there is no more need to talk about us. So texted her politely that it is OK with us and we should leave things as they are. Day after she dropped a bomb. She texted me that she need to talk about "our boy". Since Christmas he mentions me everyday, few times a day he wants me to come, he cries, shows anger at mom or even tries to reconcile our relationship (has his own ideas how to stop "fighting" with each other). She insisted on me to visit him from time to time. Over that we've had an hour long relationship talk, which made me feel sad, because there was no propoer communication. She was talking about my issues only. I was talking about my issues too, because I think that is what proper communication is. When I mentioned her issues, she get very defensive. So it was terrible, I felt attacked and lashed out saying that I don't want to have anything in common with her. Just leave me alone. Next two days I've received calls from her son. Damn, that was heartbreaking. He was so much in despair to come to visit him, showed me so much love, cried. I was, and actually am, in pieces. Yesterday I wanted to talk with her about it. She put even greater pressure. It was indirect, but she made me felt guilty. A traitor. A guy that is responsible for this little boy, but just can't handle contacting his mom. I left open door, but told her I have so much doubts, because "no contact" is a best way for me to heal emotionally from this relationship. Again, we discussed our issues, but this time it was better.
I am really torn apart. What is good for me, isn't good for kid and vice versa.
I can't recognise her intentions really. Kid's emotions are real for sure. But when she is done, she should accept his loss and get through it with him, as was said before. On the other hand, when there is same situation as month before, where she has doubts and regrets, and feelings towards me (yep, that distance at two weeks mark), I will reconsider taking a risk. Can even take things slowly. But what I need is a proper communication. Unfortunately month ago I told her in anger that I don't want her to mess again with my feelings and don;t want to hear ever again that she misses me and have doubts. I know how she can feel about it now. It could be double vulnerability to her. So I am really confused how to communicate her to get honest answers and clear situation. If she is really done for good, and thinks only about her kid's well-being, I am off. I will hurt so much for that kid, but creating a strange situationship with my ex and stepkid is beyond my emotional strenght.
Apologies for chaotic post, I am quite anxious now, emotionally unstable, have mixed feeling and thoughts. That is why I asked her for few days of space.
I will be very thankful for your perspective.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 6, 2022 21:45:55 GMT
So, this sucks, but it also isn't surprising. My opinion about what's going on here is, because she is so emotionally stunted, she has no idea how to handle her son's emotions. She can't give him healthy guidance in approaching or processing the change and any potential loss. She can't use the opportunity to teach him healthy ways to channel those feelings or to adapt to new circumstances, because she herself does not have those tools. His dysregulation likely dysregulates her. So what does she want? She wants a bandaid to make it stop because she can't deal with it. She thinks you are that bandaid, which in a way, you are. But the actual healthy way for them to be navigating this situation is not with bandaids, it's teaching him healthy relating, which isn't going to happen. But that's not your fault and doing what's best for him is getting him professional help so he can learn to handle negative emotions, not capitulating to her. You are in a mess, but it's happening because you were two unhealthy people coming together and making choices and attachment, and now you are trying to grow while she is not and trying to keep you drawn in because she relies on you to regulate her son.
So I don't have the best answer for what you should do next, just the framing for what's actually going on here. Maybe you can describe it this way to your therapist and see what they suggest is the healthiest approach for her son? I don't think it's staying stuck like this and kicking the can down the road or enabling codependence, but obviously abandoning him isn't the way to go either. I think there's some middle ground that involves strong boundaries, but unfortunately it will be on you to enforce them since you're the most emotionally aware of the three. And having to enforce boundaries all the time when no one else can is difficult and exhausting, as you're finding. That's not on a child to do anyway, but the child also needs to be learning how to do it as they grow up, which probably isn't happening in this situation.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2022 0:50:08 GMT
dexter I am sorry that you are in this very tough situation. I don't know if this is a good thought but I'll put it out there- is there a trusted, mature friend that you two could arrange as a go between for visits with the boy? Like, mom could drop him off with the friend and you pick him up, then return his to mom through a safe, low drama intermediary? Just putting that out there, that is how "unsafe" exchanges are handled in divorces sometimes . With good planning and well chosen intermediary it could be better for the boy, whose interests are most important (his well-being... I am not sure what is best for him but maybe this idea could be discussed with your therapist?)
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dexter
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Post by dexter on Jan 7, 2022 11:45:38 GMT
Wow, alexandra! Your words are so valid. Probably you are very accurate. I am amazed. All those years together she claimed that she feels inadequate and non-competent as a mother. That made any talks on setting boundaries on raising issues very harsh. She perceived it as me critizing her. And when difficulties occured, like kid's strong emotions, illness, even falling off a bike (nothing serious), she was dysregulated completely, ranging from seeking my help and support, to acting angry towards me (pushing me away when I tried to be supportive).
I think that I have a proper solution. I will take my responsibility and meet with him for few times. In the meantime I think all three of us should have a support from children therapist, which will guide us through process of separation. At this moment it is all I can do, because going no contact is the only way for me to heal. Instead, I will be still suffering from rejection which will fuel my anxiety. And what our therapists say? They both say we should cut all ties.
What I am still afraid of is our problem with proper communication. There is some resentment (and anger) on my side, because I feel hurt of her push and pull, messing with my feelings, mixed signals and feeling of being manipulated. And of course her anger, which I think is her tool to push me away. Even now there is push and pull dynamics, which is very confusing for me. Today morning I've told her that I am ready to meet him, but pointed out that I feel pressure and manipulation (because she was directly made me feel guilty for leaving him, not taking into account my emotions - ok I know it was unnecessary). She lashed out, told that she don't want nothing from me, I don't need to visit kid, and hung up. I know this will be temporary and I need to give her space, but damn, it is so hard to communicate with her. We are trying to cooperate for our kid's well-being, so why there is still that terrible dynamic? I know that open communication will help us both. I would tell her about my resentments, why I am angry, would like to clean the atmosphere. But I suppose it will trigger her more, because I AM CRITISIZING HER!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2022 17:45:11 GMT
You know what dexter? You used the convo about a visit with the boy to mention that you feel pressured and manipulated, and you need to stop that crap. Seriously, you are now acting like a victim and throwing him into the middle of it, he's the only and I mean the ONLY victim here. I can have some sympathy up until the point you do stuff like that and make excuses on here. It's atrocious the way you two behave concerning this child and I don't condone your tantrums with her. I agree you need to get out of the picture. It's absurd, and tragic. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2022 19:49:06 GMT
You've shown zero capacity to set aside your agenda and dynamic with her in order to prioritize the best interests of the child. Here he's in anguish and you cannot sober up enough to leave your feelings about her on the shelf for a visit- the visit is impossible because you two have to go at it and blame and you're both using him and his grief as a pawn because neither of you can control yourselves. And now maybe you can drag her back to therapy. No therapist can give you both a behavior transplant yoh will have to take responsibility for yourselves. She isn't showing signs of that and after all these months you aren't able either. I feel very bad for the kid but you two have just become so toxic, you can't handle this. It's disturbing and I hope someone can eventually help this boy.
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) One thing I can tell you that helped me for myself though was having her bear witness to his deactivation toward the end - she was able to validate that he was extremely avoidant, and this did set me free a little bit from the self blame and taking too much responsibility. 