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Post by cherrycola on May 30, 2022 18:48:52 GMT
Wanting perfect attunement and understanding are just not reasonable things to expect from a partner. I'm sorry you're in pain but not sorry you're going through this because it sounds like you're getting some real emotional processing done. I wanted to jump on this sentence and fix it. Wanting perfect attunement and understanding are just not reasonable things to expect from this partner. Maybe you can't get *totally* perfect, but you can find pretty close in a healthier partner. You can't get it from Mr. AP (who is FA). Complete lack of attunement can also present and be received as emotional abuse. I know because I've been there, done that. It's not healthy to immerse in it because it will drain your self-esteem if you let it. Think about it this way... lack of parental / parental figure attunement causes insecure attachment styles to develop in children. So it's not good for us or our development. That's not something to find ways to keep blaming yourself for, but you're probably doing that because it's how you learned how to cope with similar feelings in the past. I meant him expecting that from me, isn't fair. Considering he offers me so little attunement. He gets mad when I have lack of attunement to him. When I misunderstand him or don't read between the lines right he throws it as me as evidence that I don't get him and never will. You are right that I am getting some serious emotional processing done from this. I found a mirror of all my biggest triggers and it's so uncomfortable to have to face them head on. |
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Post by alexandra on May 30, 2022 18:55:13 GMT
Oh okay, that makes sense. As long as you recognize his complete lack of attunement!
It will be hard because it feels bad for anyone leaning anxious to move on from an attachment figure connection, but doing just that from Mr. "AP" will make you feel a lot better in the long-run.
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Post by cherrycola on Jun 14, 2022 1:41:54 GMT
Having a hard time wanting to meet anyone, kinda burnt out. Been doing the motions of matching and chatting and then just kinda fade away. I am not sure if I am burnt out in general or if being involved even casually with someone insecure is adding to this.
Since he got back Mr. AP is being a lot more consistent. Texting daily, responding quickly. Calling me, wanting to see me etc. We spent a weekend together at his vacation property, there was an emergency and we ended up with no water for 24 hours. I realized I was waiting for him to blow up because that is what everyone else would do to me but he didn't, he handled it like an adult. There was some passive aggressiveness from his end but I removed myself from the situation and we talked about it in the morning. It was a good chance for me to really unpack and stay present with my own needs and reactions. I also finally caught on that he enjoys pressing my buttons so I now just use humor to roll with it.
He is starting to come out of his shell. He told me about some of the not so nice parts of his childhood. He still seems really in denial about the impact it had on him, but that is for him to work through on his own. The best part is he is starting to provide context for things he says and does. Including finally telling me why he declined all my invites to come for dinner 4 months ago. (His ex bugged him about being a picky eater so he didn't want me to know that) He also said when we are together in public sometimes it makes him insecure because people pay so much attention to me.
He is starting to ask for things directly, which is nice. Also starting to say things like I had a fun time, etc. But still very little in terms of his feelings towards me which I find extremely hard to deal with. One night he told me "you don't need me, maybe that is why we don't work" so I thought I was squarely in the friendzone. But then a week later when I said, "I consider you a friend" he reacted with "I don't know what you are yet". He has since shown me he considers me more than a friend. My counsellor was actually amused that I tried to friendzone him and said of course he was going to take that really personally and react to it. I realized I was constantly try to get validation from him, including excessively complimenting him so I have made an effort to stop.
My counsellor actually supported me continuing in this dynamic provided he keeps on this trajectory. She said I still intellectualize everything instead of coming from a place of vulnerability. That many of the things he is saying are him wanting validation that I want him, and when I don't respond from the heart it's blocking the connection. She encouraged me to stay in my lane and be the leader. She said there is no way of knowing if he can come up to my level or not but that it is creating a lot of growth for me.
Which leads to last night, I almost ran away, like I always do when I am scared, but I am glad I forced myself to confront it head on. Even though it was confusing, I know he'll tell me what happened when he is ready.
It got late and he asked if I was staying over, I asked if he wanted me to stay and he said he didn't know. When I said that isn't really an answer he didn't reply and got quiet. I got into bed and he retreated to the couch. I went to find out what was up, and he just wouldn't talk to me. I asked if there was something bugging him or did he just want me to go and he didn't answer, so I said I was going home and got dressed but something stopped me from putting my shoes on. I went and sat down and was super vulnerable that I didn't know what to say or do but I wanted to know what was happening for him. He said he was tired, I asked if he wanted to go to bed and he said it had gotten so complicated. But then he stood up, said "lets try this again" and took my hand.
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Post by cherrycola on Jun 14, 2022 2:18:36 GMT
I am starting to be able to lean into my "feminine" energy. When he said you don't need me it stung because that is something that comes up again and again while dating. My counsellor said I have some control issues to work through and I can see how I am guarded and have giant walls. I don't want to depend on anyone because it doesn't feel safe. When I was married I could have quit my job and gone back to school full time and I am sure my spouse would have supported me but I didn't feel safe. I think I have these "ideas" of how a strong women needs no one, and takes care of herself etc. And I keep trying to put that front and center to the people I date but I am getting feedback it makes me too intimidating, which doesn't help anyone. It is okay to need and lean on other people.
So I made a huge effort and have been letting Mr. AP lead as much as he wants. Keeping my mouth shut even when it felt awkward and giving him space to take charge. Paying for the things he wanted to pay for. Opening doors for me. Making decisions. not submissive but also not dominant, I didn't feel put out, maybe some underlying anxiety to just let things be. When there was the water issue I was fairly sure I could fix it quickly, I've done similar repairs but I could see how emasculating it would be to try to take charge so I offered my assistance and then went off to read and he figured it out eventually.
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Post by cherrycola on Jun 17, 2022 21:43:35 GMT
So I gently tried to ask him what happened the other night, and he did not want to address it, kept trying to shift the topic. Since then he has pulled back, which wouldn't bug me except now I am thrown into a land of self doubt. Maybe we didn't need to talk about it? He said it was over, we got through it and he'll take steps to make sure it doesn't happen again. But then the part of me that has done all this work knows that a partner who cared about me would want to talk about it. My counsellor said my first instinct that night to leave was probably actually the right one. That any women would be deeply offended if they got undressed and their partner just walked away. She wants me to examine my core beliefs that are keeping me stuck because this is no longer healthy.
It took a bit to really think about it, but it is one of if I can't make this work, I am a failure and it just confirms I am broken and no relationship will ever work.
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Post by alexandra on Jun 18, 2022 1:28:42 GMT
It took a bit to really think about it, but it is one of if I can't make this work, I am a failure and it just confirms I am broken and no relationship will ever work. This is good to recognize. You're also tricking yourself in a way here. Not being able to make things work with a fellow insecure is often the norm, not the exception. So in choosing a partner with such deep issues and fears of abandonment and/or commitment, who isn't already working through them on their own, you're basically choosing someone to confirm your negative beliefs about yourself and about relationships. Because you're choosing someone emotionally unavailable who is most likely going to stay that way. So whether or not this specific connection pans out... doesn't really mean anything about you being a failure or any of that other stuff. Because you're choosing a situation in which you are set up to fail. |
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Post by cherrycola on Jun 18, 2022 5:21:33 GMT
Thanks. She said I'm now doubting myself too much and trying to over compensate for my emotional reactivity. That I need to stay in my lane and focus on how I feel. I was shocked that she said not only should I have walked out but that I should have ignored him as well. She thinks the silent treatment was manipulation and even if he was having some sort of trigger, most people would still be able to get out a please stay.
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Post by cherrycola on Jun 22, 2022 15:11:27 GMT
So FA really have a knack for detecting energy shifts. Both him and myself. I tried to pull back to figure out what to do, and he was attentive, texting constantly, daily calls, being super available and consistent, Etc. So while having a super shitty day I texted him that I was sad and struggling with my mental health and he was really supportive.
He escalated things, and despite being adament we would never have sex, we did. It was pretty terrible, at least for me. The next morning he was fine, wouldn't let me leave without a kiss goodbye and things seemed warm and close then boom, the communication shift from him was sudden and swift.
He responds sometimes, an emoji here or there, but no calls and won't start a conversation. So I've just tried to pull back myself.
His birthday is coming up which he made a big deal about having no one to celebrate with, but then turned down every offer I made. It feels really bad to me to just ignore his birthday after what he said about it, so I feel conflicted.
Trying to work on my co-depedant tendencies here to want to swoop in and "fix" his birthday. I can totally see why he has such a hard time getting people to do things with.
I also know he is "chasing" more than one women who don't seem to want anything to do with him. One he was actually dating and the other he said there was no chemistry with but he will wait around for hours to maybe see him. It feels bad but also I know he is just responding to his programming. Just more evidence he can't have a healthy reciprocal relationship
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Post by cherrycola on Jun 22, 2022 17:29:39 GMT
I just realized I am getting an extreme urge to use protest behaviors. I want to freak out, scream or run away or something. All I want to do is lash out and hurt him or demand attention, but because my logical brain is still engaged I know that isn't wise. But I don't even know if it's worth communicating securely at this point. He likely isn't capable of dealing at that level.
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Post by elizabeth on Jun 22, 2022 19:57:06 GMT
I just realized I am getting an extreme urge to use protest behaviors. I want to freak out, scream or run away or something. All I want to do is lash out and hurt him or demand attention, but because my logical brain is still engaged I know that isn't wise. But I don't even know if it's worth communicating securely at this point. He likely isn't capable of dealing at that level. what do you want from him? what is it you want to communicate? what is it you need from him right now? |
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Post by cherrycola on Jun 22, 2022 20:56:01 GMT
I just need to know I matter to him  because it feels like he pulled away after a very sweet and intimate evening and it just triggered so many different wounds. I told him multiple times the reason I was skittish about sex when we first started dating was because I get super attached after... It's been 5 months I didn't expect this to happen since we've had other intimate moments. He told me he gets possessive of women he is sleeping with. The thing is, he went out of his way to use protection after telling me before how he ended up in tears the last time he tried to, so I know he cares enough about me to want me to be safe. He even thanked me for trusting him but then later I said I trusted him with my body more then any other man and I really appreciated it he said I shouldn't because he does shitty things. Logically I know he cares... And this is about him more then me He demonstrated that with how warm and caring he was about me feeling really down. |
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Post by alexandra on Jun 22, 2022 21:27:10 GMT
I think you need to flip this. While I'm sure he does care, it also kind of doesn't matter. What matters is you caring about yourself and you not abandoning yourself. It's easier said than done, I know! But he doesn't define your value, he doesn't regulate you emotionally. You do those things with or without him. So I do think it's one of those times that you need to go inward and focus on yourself and your own self esteem rather than going outward with protest behavior. I recommend talking to your therapist about exercises to do this under these circumstances, since you are still able to make the distinction between the automatic insecure patterned response and the intellectual one. What you need to get to is seeing what you're actually trying to protest and then addressing and healing your emotional response. You need to know you matter, but your mattering comes from your own self-worth in spite of whatever he does or doesn't do.
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Post by cherrycola on Jun 22, 2022 21:51:56 GMT
I think you need to flip this. While I'm sure he does care, it also kind of doesn't matter. What matters is you caring about yourself and you not abandoning yourself. It's easier said than done, I know! But he doesn't define your value, he doesn't regulate you emotionally. You do those things with or without him. So I do think it's one of those times that you need to go inward and focus on yourself and your own self esteem rather than going outward with protest behavior. I recommend talking to your therapist about exercises to do this under these circumstances, since you are still able to make the distinction between the automatic insecure patterned response and the intellectual one. What you need to get to is seeing what you're actually trying to protest and then addressing and healing your emotional response. You need to know you matter, but your mattering comes from your own self-worth in spite of whatever he does or doesn't do. Thanks for the nudge. I can't quite tell what I'm feeling this urge to protest over. The loss of connection but why. Why does it feel like I gave away my power, why does that bother me so much. I know he didn't "use" me the way it felt so many other times. I think maybe I'm mad at myself because though I've been trying to hold my boundaries, I have been struggling when I get some resistance back from him. So I don't push as hard as I should. Instead of being resentful of him I think I am turning that inwards? So it's like of course it wasn't safe you are so dumb. Of course he is going to walk all over you since you are dumb and not holding up your boundaries. You know better. My depression is really spiralling and I think I am using him to some degree to avoid those feelings so I have a call with my doctor later to discuss a med change. It feels like despite trying to heal for the past 2 years I've still been mostly running from all my problems and now they are just sitting in a huge messy pile. It was just so amazing to meet someone else who has spent their entire life chronically empty. He said he also doesn't know how to fill that hole because he's tried and tried. Was scrolling through Instagram and this seemed like a timely post for me : www.instagram.com/reel/CfHsbkFADxs/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link |
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Post by elizabeth on Jun 22, 2022 22:30:48 GMT
I think you need to flip this. While I'm sure he does care, it also kind of doesn't matter. What matters is you caring about yourself and you not abandoning yourself. It's easier said than done, I know! But he doesn't define your value, he doesn't regulate you emotionally. You do those things with or without him. So I do think it's one of those times that you need to go inward and focus on yourself and your own self esteem rather than going outward with protest behavior. I recommend talking to your therapist about exercises to do this under these circumstances, since you are still able to make the distinction between the automatic insecure patterned response and the intellectual one. What you need to get to is seeing what you're actually trying to protest and then addressing and healing your emotional response. You need to know you matter, but your mattering comes from your own self-worth in spite of whatever he does or doesn't do. Thanks for the nudge. I can't quite tell what I'm feeling this urge to protest over. The loss of connection but why. Why does it feel like I gave away my power, why does that bother me so much. I know he didn't "use" me the way it felt so many other times. I think maybe I'm mad at myself because though I've been trying to hold my boundaries, I have been struggling when I get some resistance back from him. So I don't push as hard as I should. Instead of being resentful of him I think I am turning that inwards? So it's like of course it wasn't safe you are so dumb. Of course he is going to walk all over you since you are dumb and not holding up your boundaries. You know better. My depression is really spiralling and I think I am using him to some degree to avoid those feelings so I have a call with my doctor later to discuss a med change. It feels like despite trying to heal for the past 2 years I've still been mostly running from all my problems and now they are just sitting in a huge messy pile. It was just so amazing to meet someone else who has spent their entire life chronically empty. He said he also doesn't know how to fill that hole because he's tried and tried. Was scrolling through Instagram and this seemed like a timely post for me : www.instagram.com/reel/CfHsbkFADxs/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_linkMaybe you did give away a little bit of power, but you don't have to continue giving it away. It makes a lot of sense what you are saying about your frustration with him being turned inward toward yourself. What would happen if you let yourself feel resentment toward him? What will happen if he isnt able to care for you the way you need? Just because you took a risk and tried to open up doesnt mean you are dumb at all. It means you took a brave step, however you hoped for a different outcome than the one you have received. I think its really good you are getting in touch with your doctor and hopefully that will help. I was really intrigued by your comment about it being amazing to meet someone else who has spent their entire life chronically empty. why was that particular aspect considered amazing for you? i know i am asking a lot of questions!  |
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Post by cherrycola on Jun 23, 2022 4:20:45 GMT
elizabeth not a lot of questions at all. I am not sure I can feel resentment towards him. It is such a well honed protection mechanism. First my abusive mother and then my abusive husband. Feeling resentment against myself is the only thing I know how to do. Even now I am friends with my ex and feel almost no resentment or lasting anger against him. In fact in some ways I miss our marriage because I never leaned AP with him, and DA just feels so much better then AP to me. He never physically hurt me and I could have just gone off and lived my own life but I was too enmeshed. I am textbook BPD (but my counsellor feels it is actually cPTSD). I was diagnosed 2 years ago. Chronic feelings of emptiness are one of the hallmarks of the disorder and when I tell people I feel empty and always have to some degree they don't understand. I am then given the typical advice of plan a trip or find something to look forward to, make a goal etc. Only my anhedonia is so long standing and so bad that those all feel pointless? I do travel sometimes and while I can remember enjoying it, I can't connect back and go "oh that was fun". I have been on anti-depressants on and off starting at 11. Even back then I was passively suicidal but I thought getting older and being an adult would make it all better. I didn't really realize I had trauma until I got the BPD diagnosis. Well now I am that adult and I am alone and it's pretty bad somedays. While I kinda have a sense of who I am... I also don't. I used to take pride in being a chameleon, until I realized it was a messed up trauma response. Then I tried to over compensate. I learned all the hallmarks of healthy relating, but I don't know how to actually do it. Which I think may actually be more painful for me, because I am aspiring to something that feels unattainable with a personality disorder. Mr. AP doesn't hide who he is, he was pretty honest about how broken and messed up he is and it really drew me in. He is my mirror and I see my wounded inner child reflected back at me. When I told him I was broken he told me he really didn't think I was. He is pretty honest about wanting a relationship that I know to be emotionally unhealthy but all my unhealed bits wants it. That person who will never leave you, who will be glued at the hip and always there for you. Co-dependence instead of interdependence. I am not turned off by the poly because I think it speaks to my own commitment issues. That I get bored in relationships and fear that my next one will be no different so at least if I am poly I won't devastate my partner when I want my freedom. I have probably mentioned before that because I am broken I believe only a broken person could ever want me. I intrinsically feel not good enough and that I never will be. My mother once told me I would never be happy and at the time I kinda laughed it off but now I'm afraid she might have been right.
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because it feels like he pulled away after a very sweet and intimate evening and it just triggered so many different wounds. I told him multiple times the reason I was skittish about sex when we first started dating was because I get super attached after... It's been 5 months I didn't expect this to happen since we've had other intimate moments. 