|
|
Post by alexandra on Feb 9, 2024 20:57:48 GMT
A brief open to children conversation can happen fairly early if you and the guys are mid to late 30s or older. Any mature man who is actually kid-oriented and ready is going to understand there are age constraints and you asking for general thoughts on what they're looking for in that respect is a practical compatibility question and not you being a stage 4 clinger. I found usually (serious) men asked me that fairly quickly by that age because it's just a part of life that needs to be discussed as a dealbreaker or not.
But it definitely doesn't need to be more than asking if you'd ideally want kids and if that's in the next couple years with the right person or more like the 5 to 10 year plan. And then, if the answers match yours, you don't need to discuss it again (unless it organically comes up) until you've figured out if you actually like each other and the relationship has good momentum.
If people are younger, like early 30s or earlier, you still want to make sure you're on the same page about wanting kids but there's more time so you don't need to jump right into the time horizon conversation as early, unless you want to.
|
|
|
|
Post by mrob on Feb 9, 2024 23:45:24 GMT
Children are a subject that’s black and white. Everything else can be sunshine and buttercups, but if you’re not in agreement about this, why risk the initial limerence?
There’s something about a lady whose clock is ticking. It stands out a mile off. The right bloke can see that too. I say be upfront, don’t muck around.
|
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Feb 10, 2024 0:03:29 GMT
mrob, believe it or not, the clock ticking also goes both ways 😆 I once went out with a guy who wanted kids YESTERDAY, so kind of misrepresented his age and was looking for younger women to make kids happen. I felt very, very icky on that date. I checked off a bunch of theoretical boxes for him, but he didn't know me or see me for me at all! I was a means to an end. No second date.
|
|
|
|
Post by mrob on Feb 10, 2024 1:26:02 GMT
I suppose that’s the other danger. My exwife has been known to say “Good father, s& t husband”, and she’s right. The ability to function in a relationship that isn’t about oneself anymore is vitally important. That’s the part that still stings after all this time. |
|
|
|
Post by cherrycola on Feb 10, 2024 2:07:13 GMT
mrob my hope in not bringing it up right away is to avoid the desperate for a baby vibes. But I don't know anymore. I've had so many men (In their late 30s and 40s!) go in saying they want marriage and babies etc .I also suffer that I do not look my age. I have crazy hair colors and geeky interests. So when I date these men they look around at my life and realize that while they want a baby "someday" I am actually in a place to have one in the next 5 years. Many men like the "idea" of having a baby without wanting to actually do the work. So someday is some magical future version of them that has gotten all their shit together. Which I guess means that I am doing things right. But to alexandra 's point, these are men in their mid 30s and if they are emotionally mature, having an adult conversation once to determine if we are on the same page/timeline is completely reasonable and should be expected. Hell when I first met one of my male friends he asked on the second date, we clarified, we called it off. It was fairly straight forward and no awkwardness to be had. We stayed friends because we recognized the deal breaker and he is now dating someone who also doesn't want kids.
|
|
|
|
Post by cherrycola on Feb 10, 2024 2:08:07 GMT
Tonight's date cancelled. I went to message that I was about to leave and he unmatched me! Bullet dodged.
|
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Feb 10, 2024 3:54:39 GMT
Ughhh. Definitely bullet dodged, but I'm sorry he was so rude and inconsiderate about it.
There's a difference between asking about what someone wants while getting to know each other better, and projecting your own expectations on the other person. I think the trick with the kids conversation is not to do what that guy did to me. It was clear he didn't care about who he was dating, it could be anyone, as long as they checked certain boxes including being a vessel for children. Approaching it that way will make people run away screaming, unless they are equally unstable, because it's all about them and not about getting to know or build a connection with you. So keeping in mind that you're attempting to build a connection while checking for compatibility is important. Being able to do that while being confident that you know what you're looking for at this stage of your life is attractive.
I was asked out by a friend who didn't want kids and didn't realize I did (I told him when I was saying it wasn't a good idea, but it wasn't anything personal at all, just I knew he wants to be child-free). I found how he handled the whole thing to be very attractive, even though we were totally incompatible and never went on that date. I respected that he confidently knows what he wants and that he wasn't weird about me confidently knowing I wanted something different, and we were able to stay friends because of the mutual respect despite romantic incompatibility.
|
|
|
|
Post by mrob on Feb 10, 2024 8:48:50 GMT
Interesting takes. My first marriage, although we were so young, I thought she would change her mind. Of course, that didn’t happen. Imagine my surprise when not 12 months after we’d split, she was pregnant. Knowing how that child was brought up, I know I dodged a bullet, but it really hurt at the time.
My second marriage, she was set up and ready. What she needed was someone she could get on with to have a good life and have children. She couldn’t afford to waste time had a timetable in mind, but I never knew quite how rigid it was. Unfortunately as it got more serious, my unresolved FA attachment reared its head. Man, I tried to solve it. Did many rounds of therapy, I tried to logic it out, and I’ll tell you I had a good life, on the whole, with someone who isn’t crazy. I was the crazy one.
So, I think deep connection and children don’t necessarily have to go together. I’m sure that sounds dry, but no one person can be everything. Readiness in oneself, and the willingness to work together with a view to being lifetime partners is more important. To do whatever it takes in good faith. Readiness necessarily means knowing where one is attachment wise and working on it if necessary.
I’m so glad I’m through all that, even though I made a mess of it. I just try to be the best coparent I can be. Everything is measured on that, for the moment.
|
|
|
|
Post by cherrycola on Feb 10, 2024 21:26:02 GMT
Had a perfectly lovely date. Took a bit to get him off the topic of work but we talked about various things. He was very respectful but warm. Gave good responses. He mentioned "if I have kids" so I used that to open the discussion. He said he always wanted them but he is getting older so now he's a maybe with the right person. But near the end of the date something felt off as he ended it with a "Stay in touch" ... Which felt very cold. So I sent him a text and I guess we'll see. Sounds like he has been on the apps for quite some time.
I wish I had been a bit flirtier / broken the touch barrier as I was attracted to him, just felt shy.
But a good date to break the ice.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2024 22:04:54 GMT
Had a perfectly lovely date. Took a bit to get him off the topic of work but we talked about various things. He was very respectful but warm. Gave good responses. He mentioned "if I have kids" so I used that to open the discussion. He said he always wanted them but he is getting older so now he's a maybe with the right person. But near the end of the date something felt off as he ended it with a "Stay in touch" ... Which felt very cold. So I sent him a text and I guess we'll see. Sounds like he has been on the apps for quite some time. I wish I had been a bit flirtier / broken the touch barrier as I was attracted to him, just felt shy. But a good date to break the ice. All of my experience has shown me that if a man is interested he will secure a second date and not leave it ambiguous. I'm the kind that will just say what I'm thinking so I'm not afraid to be direct (back when I was dating) about whether or not I am interested in learning more. I further support this idea with the notion that the first few dates should be fairly light and just exploring if the discovery process shpuld continue, with no cosmic conclusions being drawn unless there is a red flag that's a deal breaker. So ambiguity itself is a red flag just because I consider it due process to agree to the process and take measured risks. Not that every man who wants a second date is interested for the right reasons. But if he's not interested an ambiguous response is just disrespectful and immature. And, not putting it all on the man to initiate, I consider it a level playing field where transparency on both sides avoids mixed messages and silly games. That's just me. Insecurity aside, of course, direct communication is too much to ask from someone without self awareness. Since nothing major is weighing on early dating , I don't see a reason (now that I'm more secure) to not just politely decline or express interest in learning more.... |
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Feb 10, 2024 22:12:14 GMT
So, I think deep connection and children don’t necessarily have to go together. I’m sure that sounds dry, but no one person can be everything. Readiness in oneself, and the willingness to work together with a view to being lifetime partners is more important. To do whatever it takes in good faith. When I say connection, I mean building together that trust you need to be able to trust the other person, their decision making (with your kids), and that they are acting in good faith for a lifetime partnership (assuming that's what you both are going for). Definitely not having one person be everything. I suppose for me personally, I don't see a good partnership coming through if you're not able to be close friends as well, so that's what I was looking for. I know not everyone will feel that way (for example, people who want trophy spouses, or relationships of convenience, though you'd still need to build trust for the latter and doesn't that mean some sort of underlying friendship even if it's not closely intimate?). Obviously people break up and co-parent, and sometimes that's an acrimonious breakup but a very successful co-parenting relationship. Maybe in that case, there's a certain area that you need to establish mutual trust with each other (that they'll do right by the kids) without necessarily having the trust anymore that they'll do right by you? I'm going off on a tangent for this thread, though. cherrycola, that's good you were able to bring it up without it sounding awkward. It's also one of those things that if you practice doing it with different dates, it'll come more and more naturally to you. |
|
|
|
Post by cherrycola on Feb 11, 2024 7:45:41 GMT
I made no judgements about his intentions and we exchanged a few more messages here and there. Went out most of the evening with a friend. I was going to text him to ask him out on a 2nd date when I got home but he beat me to it. This whole dating without a ton of texting is a bit weird, but overall I am enjoying it.
I have had so many bad experiences where I showed up too assertive and it lead to semi interested men saying yes because it was easy. So I am trying to match energy, which I'm a bit clumsy at. I think he may have also gotten in my head a bit because he made a few comments here and there about leading in the dynamic so I guess I wanted to feel that out a bit. Looking forward to me other date tomorrow evening.
thanks for all the feedback all !
|
|
|
|
Post by cherrycola on Feb 12, 2024 1:15:36 GMT
Hmmm, so tonight's date (The accountant) rain checked me. Old me would have totally just said okay, and then let things be vague and open ended but I took him at face value and countered with setting up a new date. He assertively ran with it, and we said tomorrow. I don't know if he'll show up tomorrow, but I also know I lose nothing by giving him one chance to come through. Then I know for sure instead of having weird conversations for the next week and to be left wondering. I did start to match and chat with some new people to hedge my bets. No point getting attached to a maybe.
The Programmer is definitely a respectful guy. His flirting is all very PG and I never realized how much I appreciate that.
Haven't heard from Mr. AP. Have been in touch a bit here and there with Mr. Situationship. Trying to treat him very much like any of my other friends. I did have a good chat with my counsellor today about me keeping him around as an "emotional escape hatch" to make it feel safe to get closer to someone else. She feels that if I do find someone else secure and safe that I will no longer feel that need and will pull the cord. I guess only time will tell.
|
|
|
|
Post by cherrycola on Feb 13, 2024 6:16:25 GMT
Had my first date with the accountant tonight and wow, was it worth the wait. It wasn't a big bang or anything, just a general good vibe. We have a lot of the same values and sensibilities. In fact, I am struggling with the lack of red flags. I only noticed one orange flag that once in awhile he seemed distracted when I was talking. But he also remembered random details from our texting, so going to give him points for that. With the programmer my brain has already pulled him apart in many ways and I've identified things that may drive me nuts (he is super A type about his diet, lives downtown, wants to go on a ton of travel) etc. Where I don't feel that here. Just a perfectly normal human being. I even didn't mind when he awkwardly put his arm around me, which is a HUGE thing for me. The desire to be touched by someone says volumes.
I have another first date tomorrow with a nerdy guy, and then a second date with the programmer. Then I may cut him loose, but definitely seeing this guy again.
|
|
|
|
Post by cherrycola on Feb 14, 2024 22:20:53 GMT
I've been caught off guard with just how much I like the accountant. We tried to make a lunch date today and he had to cancel last second due to work and it triggered me all over the place. In fact I would say I haven't liked anyone this much since Mr. Situationship. He offered me a dinner date instead but I already have plans for dinner and then I felt bad and awkward and now mad at myself. I never wanted the Valentine's date but I let someone else push me into one. Had I stood my boundaries, I wouldn't feel conflicted and feeling like I now have to go on a date I'm not feeling and not see I person I want to see.
But like I don't know either of these guys and it's always recommend to keep your options open this early. There is nothing wrong with the programmer, I wanted to give him a chance but my intuition about who I click with (for friends anyways) is never wrong. Trying to be really curious and open to my body. It feels like life or death. I feel like I am in danger. But I'm not. It's insane to be at the point where I still have this roller coaster anxiety but the skills to step back and observe it.
Edit: and I guess this is why attachment is so slippery. Because you think you are doing good and bam! Fear pops up and you flail.
|
|
