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Post by emreyn on Aug 3, 2023 17:08:45 GMT
I don’t want anything I just feel really low about it all, like when you know something you can’t unknow it - up until recently I thought it was his depression making him behave like this but it’s so much bigger than that. I have realised the person and relationship I’m missing was actually never in fact real, it’s like one nice message would see me through months of shit- which boggles my mind.
My daughter who is 14 heard me talking to him and afterwards came into my room sobbing saying that just hearing me talk to him made her panic about the possibility of him coming back. I feel really awful my kids have had to suffer through this and it’s scary I couldn’t see it when I was in it.
I was questioning his behaviour more from the aspect of trying to understand FA cycle , we’ve never got to this point before, usually it’s me chasing and he eventually comes around. It was never me “being crazy” but it would be like he would need me to make him see positives and he came around and then was back to being all in. Even for a short period of time.
I am looking for another job and my dad is doing what he can to look into securing my house for me for a couple of years through solicitors so there isn’t any need for talks. We had already arranged that he would have our son on a Saturday evening until Sunday afternoon each week going forward so his message was a bit odd!
I think this time was the biggest, fuck you he’s ever given me especially leaving me with a pregnancy and miscarriage to deal with alone!! So I think even he knows that there isn’t any coming back from this.
I will say though, I could definitely tell the difference in where he is mentally, almost very level headed and rational- seeing the overreaction etc! It must be so frustrating dealing with this.
I don’t know from your experience but he has said he cries when he watches things or sees things that remind him of us. We are just over 2 months into this breakup and I wonder if it’s finally catching up to him.
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Post by alexandra on Aug 3, 2023 17:27:35 GMT
Over simplified version, but in short:
FA = anxiety when the other person gets too far, avoidance and withdrawal when the person gets too close. Optimal is (the illusion of) a comfortable distance where you feel some connection with one foot out the door at any moment and not actually having any real responsibility to show up for the other person, so there's a sense of not being triggered either way instead of anxiety or avoidance.
If you're distant and he's still attached, he will come back because he can't have you anymore and you're now a fantasy and away enough of a distance to spike his nervous system anxiety. As soon as he gets you, he'll run, his nervous system shut down. It does not matter what you do, he triggers himself, so don't go along for his ride. Do not see hope in the inconsistency or continue to put you or your kids through this just because some pretty words and outreach eased your own anxiety. Co-parent and otherwise limit contact or you'll stay stuck feeling the way you do now indefinitely.
He has severe emotional issues and has not changed in 2 months, especially without treatment. Please continue to focus on yourself and getting your own help for your AP and recovery from his back and forth, away from him.
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Post by krolle on Aug 4, 2023 0:35:16 GMT
Over simplified version, but in short: FA = anxiety when the other person gets too far, avoidance and withdrawal when the person gets too close. Optimal is (the illusion of) a comfortable distance where you feel some connection with one foot out the door at any moment and not actually having any real responsibility to show up for the other person, so there's a sense of not being triggered either way instead of anxiety or avoidance. If you're distant and he's still attached, he will come back because he can't have you anymore and you're now a fantasy and away enough of a distance to spike his nervous system anxiety. As soon as he gets you, he'll run, his nervous system shut down. It does not matter what you do, he triggers himself, so don't go along for his ride. Do not see hope in the inconsistency or continue to put you or your kids through this just because some pretty words and outreach eased your own anxiety. Co-parent and otherwise limit contact or you'll stay stuck feeling the way you do now indefinitely. He has severe emotional issues and has not changed in 2 months, especially without treatment. Please continue to focus on yourself and getting your own help for your AP and recovery from his back and forth, away from him. I couldn't have given a better or more concise description. A huge component of FA is distance management. Perhaps the biggest component. I'm not sure if this will help. Maybe might take a little of the emotional sting out of it. But I'm sure he didn't intend to hurt you. He's at the mercy of his nervous system. Unawares, it will dominate him. But most people can't be forced to be aware. Not that that excuses the behaviour. I'm just saying it likely wasn't malicious. Like I said previously. I have had my nervous system tell me I'm absolutely repulsed by a partner before, to having intense fantasies about them, romantically and sexually within the same week! All based on their reaction and availability! Ultimately though as Alexandra said. It's a rollercoaster that leaves you unhappy and damages your kids if they're involved. Feel sorry for him once the anger subsides, But protect your interests as best you can. The whole saying sweet things about you two together is a strategy to rope you back in and reduce the discomfort for him. It likely has no action to back it up. At least not more than very short term. |
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Post by emreyn on Aug 4, 2023 7:01:33 GMT
Over simplified version, but in short: FA = anxiety when the other person gets too far, avoidance and withdrawal when the person gets too close. Optimal is (the illusion of) a comfortable distance where you feel some connection with one foot out the door at any moment and not actually having any real responsibility to show up for the other person, so there's a sense of not being triggered either way instead of anxiety or avoidance. If you're distant and he's still attached, he will come back because he can't have you anymore and you're now a fantasy and away enough of a distance to spike his nervous system anxiety. As soon as he gets you, he'll run, his nervous system shut down. It does not matter what you do, he triggers himself, so don't go along for his ride. Do not see hope in the inconsistency or continue to put you or your kids through this just because some pretty words and outreach eased your own anxiety. Co-parent and otherwise limit contact or you'll stay stuck feeling the way you do now indefinitely. He has severe emotional issues and has not changed in 2 months, especially without treatment. Please continue to focus on yourself and getting your own help for your AP and recovery from his back and forth, away from him. I couldn't have given a better or more concise description. A huge component of FA is distance management. Perhaps the biggest component. I'm not sure if this will help. Maybe might take a little of the emotional sting out of it. But I'm sure he didn't intend to hurt you. He's at the mercy of his nervous system. Unawares, it will dominate him. But most people can't be forced to be aware. Not that that excuses the behaviour. I'm just saying it likely wasn't malicious. Like I said previously. I have had my nervous system tell me I'm absolutely repulsed by a partner before, to having intense fantasies about them, romantically and sexually within the same week! All based on their reaction and availability! Ultimately though as Alexandra said. It's a rollercoaster that leaves you unhappy and damages your kids if they're involved. Feel sorry for him once the anger subsides, But protect your interests as best you can. The whole saying sweet things about you two together is a strategy to rope you back in and reduce the discomfort for him. It likely has no action to back it up. At least not more than very short term. It helps to know for sure. Leaves me with a feeling of emptiness though. All those times I thought we were working towards a future and him getting a handle on his mental health and it wasn’t true! How do FAs ever have regular relationships? I’m going to do what his last girlfriend did (she also worked with us - I started there at the end of their relationship with her resigning and not working her notice period! I’m going to try and find something else and not tell him I’m leaving until the last minute. Distance is key I guess! |
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Post by emreyn on Aug 4, 2023 7:02:56 GMT
Over simplified version, but in short: FA = anxiety when the other person gets too far, avoidance and withdrawal when the person gets too close. Optimal is (the illusion of) a comfortable distance where you feel some connection with one foot out the door at any moment and not actually having any real responsibility to show up for the other person, so there's a sense of not being triggered either way instead of anxiety or avoidance. If you're distant and he's still attached, he will come back because he can't have you anymore and you're now a fantasy and away enough of a distance to spike his nervous system anxiety. As soon as he gets you, he'll run, his nervous system shut down. It does not matter what you do, he triggers himself, so don't go along for his ride. Do not see hope in the inconsistency or continue to put you or your kids through this just because some pretty words and outreach eased your own anxiety. Co-parent and otherwise limit contact or you'll stay stuck feeling the way you do now indefinitely. He has severe emotional issues and has not changed in 2 months, especially without treatment. Please continue to focus on yourself and getting your own help for your AP and recovery from his back and forth, away from him. So rather than it ever being about me it’s just about attachment and more about control and getting his needs met? Or am I overreacting? |
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Post by alexandra on Aug 4, 2023 7:19:47 GMT
So rather than it ever being about me it’s just about attachment and more about control and getting his needs met? Or am I overreacting? It seems like you're back to trying to go for the negative here, black and white that he didn't care and it wasn't real. He can care about you but not have the capacity to do it maturely or in a way that won't hurt both of you over and over since he has no idea how to meet his own needs. So it's both not about anything you did while also being about control and attachment. Every insecure attachment style has subconscious patterns that play out similarly time after time until the person becomes aware and works on healing (which usually takes years). You keep questioning if you're imagining things or overreacting, and you're not. But you also keep focusing on him and why he's doing x, y, z instead of focusing on your own needs and what's causing you to fixate on his side instead of why you're willing to accept so little. It's more painful to focus on yourself, that's for sure, but there's more at play causing the painful rumination on your side than being hooked on his intermittent reinforcement. |
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Post by alexandra on Aug 4, 2023 7:23:22 GMT
How do FAs ever have regular relationships? FAs often don't ever have "regular" relationships... certainly not in the way APs view "regular" relationships. |
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Post by krolle on Aug 4, 2023 9:13:16 GMT
How do FAs ever have regular relationships? FAs often don't ever have "regular" relationships... certainly not in the way APs view "regular" relationships. We Don't. I never had. Looking back at my entire relationship history, any time I have tried to seriously connect in the past, it has been a terrible thing, for me and her. Really being quiet an asshole without realizing it. Swinging from alcoholism to intense short lived flings, breakups and reconciliations. But I agree with Alexandria. Focusing on you, your kids and being happy again is what I'd like to see. Though I disagree slightly with popular convention on this, that you should focus "entirely" on yourself. But not for the sake of him. More so to understand the dynamic. I have heard trauma defined before as a suffering which you can't understand and therefore struggle to learn from and process. So it finds its way into your subconscious for future scars. That's of course just one definition of a very vague and scary subject. My point being, it's useful to know this stuff so you can understand what happened with you guys better. And at some point integrate the information to make more informed decisions in the future. Having said that, there is a proper timescale for these things. And right now when your hurting is acute, is probably not the best time to be doing any serious reflection. Hence the advice to start by focusing on you and feeling better. A year or 2 ago I was hurting a lot after getting dumped by an FA who was giving me very mixed signals. I was here on the forum getting help from the crew actually. I'm sure I seemed quiet desperate and I was in a lot of pain. I was desperate for her to listen to me and "see sense". Having trouble eating and sleeping.....but now after understand and processing it all, there is no pain. She still messages me on about a monthly basis with some attempt to reduce the distance and be intimate. But it all seems trivial, almost comical at this point....But relevant hopefully to you, there is no pain about her, or the situation anymore. |
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Post by alexandra on Aug 4, 2023 10:03:26 GMT
My point being, it's useful to know this stuff so you can understand what happened with you guys better. And at some point integrate the information to make more informed decisions in the future. Having said that, there is a proper timescale for these things. And right now when your hurting is acute, is probably not the best time to be doing any serious reflection. Hence the advice to start by focusing on you and feeling better. Totally agree, and where my replies are coming from. |
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Post by emreyn on Aug 4, 2023 14:34:31 GMT
Unaware FAs often don't ever have "regular" relationships... certainly not in the way APs view "regular" relationships. We Don't. I never had. Looking back at my entire relationship history, any time I have tried to seriously connect in the past, it has been a terrible thing, for me and her. Really being quiet an asshole without realizing it. Swinging from alcoholism to intense short lived flings, breakups and reconciliations. But I agree with Alexandria. Focusing on you, your kids and being happy again is what I'd like to see. Though I disagree slightly with popular convention on this, that you should focus "entirely" on yourself. But not for the sake of him. More so to understand the dynamic. I have heard trauma defined before as a suffering which you can't understand and therefore struggle to learn from and process. So it finds its way into your subconscious for future scars. That's of course just one definition of a very vague and scary subject. My point being, it's useful to know this stuff so you can understand what happened with you guys better. And at some point integrate the information to make more informed decisions in the future. Having said that, there is a proper timescale for these things. And right now when your hurting is acute, is probably not the best time to be doing any serious reflection. Hence the advice to start by focusing on you and feeling better. A year or 2 ago I was hurting a lot after getting dumped by an FA who was giving me very mixed signals. I was here on the forum getting help from the crew actually. I'm sure I seemed quiet desperate and I was in a lot of pain. I was desperate for her to listen to me and "see sense". Having trouble eating and sleeping.....but now after understand and processing it all, there is no pain. She still messages me on about a monthly basis with some attempt to reduce the distance and be intimate. But it all seems trivial, almost comical at this point....But relevant hopefully to you, there is no pain about her, or the situation anymore. Thanks krolle, This break up happened 8/9 weeks ago, my miscarriage only 3 and a bit weeks ago and I hadn’t known too much about this kind of attachment up until fairly recently which prompted me reaching out to this forum. I have good and bad days, good days where I can tell myself I did the best I could and his behaviour isn’t personal to me and then on a bad day can start overthinking about whether any of my life was real with him. I guess on some days I can see that when he felt positive he would mean what he said and when he felt negative he would mean what he said but then I flip it and say well nothing he ever said was true then as it was so contradictory. I don’t think there is anymore going on with me in terms of rumination, even a securely attached person would struggle to understand this behaviour. And I’m grieving my relationship regardless of the state of it. We had a son and recently bought a house and it’s gone now and that’s a hard adjustment. I most certainly want to move forward and focus on my children but when you’re in love with someone it’s hard! Thanks for you reassurances! |
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Post by alexandra on Aug 4, 2023 16:55:54 GMT
I don’t think there is anymore going on with me in terms of rumination, even a securely attached person would struggle to understand this behaviour. Miscarrying, especially in the midst of this bigger situation, is extremely traumatic. And can be extremely painful to process. So there are other big things going on, and I'm again glad you're in position to start getting professional treatment soon. Don't discount that there's a lot going on to process besides him, and I really hope for you that you get a good practitioner and good help because you've been through a lot. Big hug! |
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Post by emreyn on Aug 5, 2023 18:35:57 GMT
Well for anyone interested in this….
He talked about messing it up all, feeling so regretful about the choices he had made up till this point, telling me how he knew he had treated me and my kids so badly and I deserved better and would never consider getting back together because it was bad for me. Offered to get a new job so I could keep mine as he knew I would struggle to work together. All seemed pretty genuine.
Then hugs me and makes inappropriate comments and noises when we’re close. Obviously wanting sex. I was completely floored by that. If I’d allowed it he most definitely would have done it.
One time when we broke up we had sex and it made me feel icky and I told him so. So I was shocked after how mature he sounded talking about how much he misses me but fucked it up and he wants to support me in my grief to then be inappropriate like that. I can’t actually explain how uncomfortable it was in the moment but the energy was off.
Now the offer of the job change has gone and although that’s perfectly reasonable- I wouldn’t expect him to leave his job just because I couldn’t hack working together but it’s another meaningless offer with no real thought or action ready behind it!
He offered to sign over the house to me a few weeks ago so me and the kids could have security. And then back tracked a few days later- again this was an offer he made without me saying anything! So I knew the job thing was bullshit.
I’ll never understand that side of him. But it shows a real lack of emotional maturity and consideration of others and the basic think before you speak life skill!
So no big revelations or upsets - it’s just sad really, the whole thing!
My brain is on shut down - probably operating at 1% right now and I’m just deciding to be done. Not with him, not with myself, just done with thinking, I just want to exist without thinking. Hopefully I can make it happen🤞
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Post by usernametaken on Aug 6, 2023 1:38:01 GMT
It really is a bit crazy once you start to see thru their manipulations. From all the reading I've done, they often aren't really aware of it. They say things that sound/feel good to them. So him saying I'll quit so you can stay, that makes his ego feel good in the moment, but of course because he is so out of touch with his feelings, he can't actually keep to his word. If you called him on it point blank he would probably ignore your question or make up an excuse.
The good thing now though is you can take everything he says with a grain of salt, and stick to his actions more than his words.
I am sorry that he made a pass at you after everything that has occurred. Just adds to his level of immature, selfish behavior. You are worth so much more than that.
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Post by mrob on Aug 6, 2023 2:46:58 GMT
All of that is entirely normal FA behaviour. Can you see the cycle yet?
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