|
|
Post by alexandra on Aug 23, 2018 17:31:48 GMT
To be honest from what you wrote it seems really about communication and different needs, rather than attachment per se. Based on similar-ish experiences I've had, I'm going to disagree with this. I believed that same thing earlier on in the process, and so we worked hard and mostly fixed the communication issues, and it ultimately didn't help. The cycle repeated anyway. Communication troubles were a symptom of the deeper issues in each individual, which were attachment-related. Things got better when I worked on my insecure attachment style, but it didn't correct because he did not do the same and his patterns kept repeating no matter how I changed. Though better communication did allow us to get through the cycle faster... |
|
|
|
Post by cspragu on Aug 23, 2018 18:41:53 GMT
Here's an update to my ridiculous saga. She came over last Tuesday and was essentially all over me. Then we texted off and on with a day or two gap in between. nothing crazy just small talk. I asked her to dinner on Monday but she had plans and didn't suggest an alternative date. She gave me her grandmothers diagnosis of breast cancer and was worried about the anesthesia. I told her to think positive and to let me know if she needs any recommendations or referrals on anesthetists(my mother is a CRNA). I then told her that I'm here for her and I'm not abandoning her, but that I was going to stop reaching out to try and make plans. I said that It was difficult for me to put myself out there given our situation and that I felt like I should probably be giving her some space. She got upset about that and didn't respond for 5 hours or so. An argument ensued when she finally did because she was so angry that I said that to her shortly after finding out that her grandma has cancer. I felt bad about the timing of the message but couldn't take it back.
She texted me last night saying that our chemistry was amazing and that she missed me. But our communication is poor and the fact that we aren't even together but she's so angry she cant answer a text "should say something". She said when were together its great but when were apart "all hell breaks loose". I don't even know what that means. She said it sucks because Tuesday was amazing and that this isn't easy for her. Then she sent another text saying that our socialization styles are completely different and that she didn't like having to facilitate conversations between her parents and I(ive met them once) and her friends and I(who I see at the gym all the time). She also said that she feels like I don't care about her relationship with her friends and have no desire to have one with them myself. None of that is true and I was at a loss. I called her and said that our communication will always be an issue if she gets angry and defensive at the first sight of a conversation regarding feelings or the relationship. She told me that I wasn't doing the right things to calm her down. I also told her that she was way off base with her assertion that I don't care about her friends. I really didn't know what else to say at that point. Her mind was made up and I felt like it was a waste of time. We sat on the phone for a while and she cried a little and said this sucks...then we got off.
I laid awake, hurt and angry, and realized how ridiculous it was for her to expect me to diffuse her anger the "right way" even though she didn't have any suggestion as to what that may be. I'm not responsible for her anger and it isn't reasonable to lash out at me any time I bring a concern to her attention. I sent a LOOOOONG email to her a little bit ago just laying everything out as I saw it and how I felt. She, of course, said it was a demeaning attack and that it hurt her. Now were back where we were in December. She bails...reconnects with me with a lot of emotion. Makes an excuse to run off. I respond with how I'm feeling via email because saying it to her face is a recipe for a blowup. and were estranged and I feel like shit.
help...? To be honest from what you wrote it seems really about communication and different needs, rather than attachment per se. It's good when you're together because you're in the moment enjoying your company and when you part some kind of power struggle begins. "I then told her that I'm here for her and I'm not abandoning her, but that I was going to stop reaching out to try and make plans." You pull then you push at once. You either are in or out. You want to get your needs met in a passive agressive way. What's your MBTI type? You seem like a Fe (extroverted feelings) user while she might be using a different communication style and you miss each other there. It seems like you both would benefit from having a mediator. To be clear, my intent wasn't to either push or pull. She came over the Tuesday prior and was extremely intimate with me. Then we had only intermittent and very superficial contact for the week following. She was obviously very conflicted and said as much in a previous text. All this after two weeks of almost no contact following our breakup. My intent was to give her some space to figure out what she wants which, from experience, I know she needs being an FA and having done this before with her. However, she had just informed me of her grandmothers cancer diagnosis and I didn't want her to think that I wasn't available to talk if she needed someone. There are very few people she's comfortable being that vulnerable around. Socially she is an extrovert and I am slightly towards the introverted side of the spectrum. Emotionally I am more up front and comfortable with vulnerability than she is. She is definitely more reserved and doesn't put herself out there. Even after she told me she loved me for the first time it was over a month before I heard it again. Yes...a mediator would be useful and I tried that. We both went to see my therapist two weeks before the breakup and the session went very well. in fact, she said she thought the relationship was going great and said that she loved me very much. Then she started deactivating and suddenly it was "unhealthy" that we needed assistance to communicate. There's not much I can do when she's in that place. She has a problem for every solution. Regardless, if you observe the continuous pattern of approach/avoidance(all initiated by her) along with her self esteem issues, general anxiety, etc...its obvious attachment issues are a significant player. Mine included. Although I've been actively working on those since last November. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 20:17:05 GMT
I didn't mean you did that on purpose but more that it turned out that way due to the way you chose to communicate it. It triggered her. I'm assuming you both do that a lot to each other. So maybe if you BOTH made effort to communicate your needs better, you wouldn't trigger each other.
|
|
|
|
Post by cspragu on Aug 23, 2018 20:21:55 GMT
I didn't mean you did that on purpose but more that it turned out that way due to the way you chose to communicate it. It triggered her. I'm assuming you both do that a lot to each other. So maybe if you BOTH made effort to communicate your needs better, you wouldn't trigger each other. I see what you're saying. You're right...it upset her because she saw it as me pulling away when she needed me. I tried to reassure her that I wasn't but, once shes angry, she's angry. I'm open to suggestions from ANYONE on how to communicate with her better. I've tried everything I can think of. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 20:32:02 GMT
I didn't mean you did that on purpose but more that it turned out that way due to the way you chose to communicate it. It triggered her. I'm assuming you both do that a lot to each other. So maybe if you BOTH made effort to communicate your needs better, you wouldn't trigger each other. I see what you're saying. You're right...it upset her because she saw it as me pulling away when she needed me. I tried to reassure her that I wasn't but, once shes angry, she's angry. I'm open to suggestions from ANYONE on how to communicate with her better. I've tried everything I can think of. FWIW, I've been in 2 year on and off relationship with DA (I'm FA), it was a roller coaster ride, he was getting too close to me and deactivating, it triggered me, I triggered him, that triggered hell. There was a lot of assumptions on both ends, especially when triggered. He thought I needed things from him that I didn't. A lot of assumption in an attempt to protect ourselves (I was aware of the attachment theory so it was him mostly, I tried to accommodate but I still was getting triggered) Then one time he had enough of "me", he told me what was wrong about me, that he couldn't give me things I wanted, that we aren't compatible. He wasn't deactivating, he was being fed up and honest. The thing is, all he said wasn't the reality. I explained to him my side, why I was behaving the way I was(how his deactivating was affecting me and that it was only a result of that) and what it really meant. He understood. Mind you, he's a hardcore DA. There are no assumptions anymore. No need to protect ourselves from each other. We are past the push and pull dynamic. We still get activated by too much intimacy, contact etc but that's that. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 20:35:12 GMT
I see what you're saying. You're right...it upset her because she saw it as me pulling away when she needed me. I tried to reassure her that I wasn't but, once shes angry, she's angry. I'm open to suggestions from ANYONE on how to communicate with her better. I've tried everything I can think of. FWIW, I've been in 2 year on and off relationship with DA (I'm FA), it was a roller coaster ride, he was getting too close to me and deactivated, it triggered me, I triggered him that triggered hell. There was a lot of assumptions on both ends, especially when triggered. He thought I needed things from him that I didn't. A lot of assumption in an attempt to protect ourselves (I was aware of the attachment theory so it was him mostly, I tried to accommodate but I still was getting triggered) Then one time he had enough of "me", he told me what was wrong about me, that he couldn't give me things I wanted, that we aren't compatible. He wasn't deactivating, he was being fed up and honest. The thing is, all he said wasn't the reality. I explained to him my side, why I was behaving the way I was(how his deactivating was affecting me and that it was only a result of that) and what it really meant. He understood. There's no assumptions anymore. No need to protect ourselves from each other. We are past the push and pull dynamic. We still get activated by too much intimacy, contact etc but that's that. right on! my dismissive partner and i hit bottom with our issues and got real and improved it. always a work in progress but it's good, safe, rewarding, and real. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 20:47:09 GMT
FWIW, I've been in 2 year on and off relationship with DA (I'm FA), it was a roller coaster ride, he was getting too close to me and deactivated, it triggered me, I triggered him that triggered hell. There was a lot of assumptions on both ends, especially when triggered. He thought I needed things from him that I didn't. A lot of assumption in an attempt to protect ourselves (I was aware of the attachment theory so it was him mostly, I tried to accommodate but I still was getting triggered) Then one time he had enough of "me", he told me what was wrong about me, that he couldn't give me things I wanted, that we aren't compatible. He wasn't deactivating, he was being fed up and honest. The thing is, all he said wasn't the reality. I explained to him my side, why I was behaving the way I was(how his deactivating was affecting me and that it was only a result of that) and what it really meant. He understood. There's no assumptions anymore. No need to protect ourselves from each other. We are past the push and pull dynamic. We still get activated by too much intimacy, contact etc but that's that. right on! my dismissive partner and i hit bottom with our issues and got real and improved it. always a work in progress but it's good, safe, rewarding, and real. It is! The funniest thing is, we both have issues with attachment and intimacy but now it seems more real, more connecting, more honest and game free than what healthy couples have. It surly is rewarding. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 20:51:27 GMT
right on! my dismissive partner and i hit bottom with our issues and got real and improved it. always a work in progress but it's good, safe, rewarding, and real. It is! The funniest thing is, we both have issues with attachment and intimacy but now it seems more real, more connecting, more honest and game free than what healthy couples have. It surly is rewarding. healthy is relative lol!! i feel extremely fortunate. we did it. what i am experiencing, in spite of a history of trauma, attachment injury, etc etc is a profound intimate connection with my closest friend. it was hard won, and worth it. our love is not perfect , but it's healthy and causes us to grow, as individuals and a unit. |
|
|
|
Post by cspragu on Aug 24, 2018 15:37:00 GMT
I wish we could have that type of dynamic with all of the understanding, compassion, and awareness it requires. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be in the cards. I shot her that long email two days ago and it clearly hurt her. She messaged me a long text last night stating that Im not qualified to make a diagnosis and that Im "fucking sick". She kept referencing a portion of the email where I stated that I was in love with her potential. She took that out of context but the damage was done. I called her and tried to clear it up but she was extremely hateful and condescending. It clearly hurt her feelings and I felt bad about it. But she was verbally abusive and closed off to anything I had to say. I should've refused to participate in the conversation with the way she was acting but I kept trying to reassure her. She stated that she's "never coming back" and that I'm "sicker and need more therapy than she does". She said she will "never trust me again" and at one point I was crying in response to her being so upset and she said "Ok Chris I can hear you're crying, you can stop now". It was toxic and contemptuous and I feel like shes a lost cause at this point. I'm numb
|
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Aug 24, 2018 15:49:49 GMT
Someone else tossed the idea of BPD out on this thread earlier. I'm not sure exactly what's going on here, but I think it's more than FA. She may be angry at you, but I've never had an experience like that with any of the FA friends or exes I have, even during an argument. The closest I can relate is when an FA friend who also has anxiety and a mood disorder (diagnosed, not me assuming) gets really triggered I've seen her lash out in the moment but apologizes when she's calm.
Please take care of yourself and your own issues and stop engaging with her. You're both driving each other crazy for some reason, and it's no good when it's getting mean on either side. I'm really sorry it ended up going this way. Her issues are not yours to fix, plus she's extra panicked and triggered due to her grandmother. Stop taking her messages, and take space for a good while instead. *hugs*
|
|
|
|
Post by cspragu on Aug 24, 2018 17:28:24 GMT
Someone else tossed the idea of BPD out on this thread earlier. I'm not sure exactly what's going on here, but I think it's more than FA. She may be angry at you, but I've never had an experience like that with any of the FA friends or exes I have, even during an argument. The closest I can relate is when an FA friend who also has anxiety and a mood disorder (diagnosed, not me assuming) gets really triggered I've seen her lash out in the moment but apologizes when she's calm. Please take care of yourself and your own issues and stop engaging with her. You're both driving each other crazy for some reason, and it's no good when it's getting mean on either side. I'm really sorry it ended up going this way. Her issues are not yours to fix, plus she's extra panicked and triggered due to her grandmother. Stop taking her messages, and take space for a good while instead. *hugs* She does suffer from pretty bad general anxiety and I would not be surprised if she had a mood disorder. She's up and down all the time. I just cant handle the negativity and the hurtful finality of her attack. I love this girl and its difficult to endure a verbal assault like that. Especially with a generous dose of condescension and mockery. I've never experienced anything like it with anyone else. I'm ashamed that I stayed on the phone and continued to try and talk to her. Its like my previously healthy levels of self respect and confidence have dwindled to nothing. After 10 years as a cop, I think I finally understand what keeps victims of abuse from leaving their abuser. The desperate hope that things will change. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2018 18:32:49 GMT
Someone else tossed the idea of BPD out on this thread earlier. I'm not sure exactly what's going on here, but I think it's more than FA. She may be angry at you, but I've never had an experience like that with any of the FA friends or exes I have, even during an argument. The closest I can relate is when an FA friend who also has anxiety and a mood disorder (diagnosed, not me assuming) gets really triggered I've seen her lash out in the moment but apologizes when she's calm. Please take care of yourself and your own issues and stop engaging with her. You're both driving each other crazy for some reason, and it's no good when it's getting mean on either side. I'm really sorry it ended up going this way. Her issues are not yours to fix, plus she's extra panicked and triggered due to her grandmother. Stop taking her messages, and take space for a good while instead. *hugs* She does suffer from pretty bad general anxiety and I would not be surprised if she had a mood disorder. She's up and down all the time. I just cant handle the negativity and the hurtful finality of her attack. I love this girl and its difficult to endure a verbal assault like that. Especially with a generous dose of condescension and mockery. I've never experienced anything like it with anyone else. I'm ashamed that I stayed on the phone and continued to try and talk to her. Its like my previously healthy levels of self respect and confidence have dwindled to nothing. After 10 years as a cop, I think I finally understand what keeps victims of abuse from leaving their abuser. The desperate hope that things will change. i'm sorry you're going through it! it's interesting, too- about what keeps victims from leaving their abuser. Attachment style plays into that as well! in my case, i was blocked logistically from leaving, it was practical matters that bound me. i didn't have a connection or bond with the man who abused me, i just wanted out but was paralyzed by severe PTSD- freeze mode. so i shut down and it was very difficult to overcome the exhaustion and dissociation. and i had nowhere to go. no resources of my own by the point it became dangerous. either way, feeling trapped is feeling trapped! i hope you can see your way out to being healing. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2018 18:47:15 GMT
I agree she could be borderline, that push and pull dynamic could be easily mistaken with FA. And she evidently splits you (if so you didn't hurt her, she probably saw it as a sign of you abandoning her and decided to hate you before you do, anything can trigger this)
It can be managed with DBT but she doesn't seem to be aware and willing enough. You really should think about getting out of that circle, it clearly wears you out and IF she's borderline she'll be back soon enough with all the intensity.
|
|
|
|
Post by cspragu on Aug 24, 2018 18:57:25 GMT
I agree she could be borderline, that push and pull dynamic could be easily mistaken with FA. And she evidently splits you (you didn't hurt her, she probably saw it as a sign of you abandoning her and decided to hate you before you do, anything can trigger this) It can be managed with DBT but she doesn't seem to be aware and willing enough. You really should think about getting out of that circle, it clearly wears you out and IF she's borderline she'll be back soon enough with all the intensity. I was looking at the Borderline symptoms. There are some that aren't present. I know they don't all have to be for there to be a BPD diagnosis though. These are DEFINITELY there though: -Efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment, such as rapidly initiating intimate (physical or emotional) relationships or cutting off communication with someone in anticipation of being abandoned -A pattern of intense and unstable relationships with family, friends, and loved ones, often swinging from extreme closeness and love (idealization) to extreme dislike or anger (devaluation) -Distorted and unstable self-image or sense of self (she has VERY low self-esteem) -Impulsive and often dangerous behaviors, such as spending sprees, unsafe sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, and binge eating(she drinks quite a bit to cope and does use Marijuana on occasion. Engages in one night stands using sex as a band-aid) -Intense and highly changeable moods, with each episode lasting from a few hours to a few days -Chronic feelings of emptiness (She's lonely and does want a relationship) -Inappropriate, intense anger or problems controlling anger (very quick to anger and defensiveness. Prone to outbursts where she will curse and verbally assault you. Elevated with alcohol) -Difficulty trusting, which is sometimes accompanied by irrational fear of other people’s intentions (she has definite trust issues. And apparently no longer trusts me) -Feelings of dissociation, such as feeling cut off from oneself, seeing oneself from outside one’s body, or feelings of unreality ( I've seen this once with her back in December) |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2018 19:14:31 GMT
seeing all his, don't forget to put the focus back on you, why you are in a self defeating pattern with her, and what you AP attachment wounding drives in your thinking and behavior.
No matter what happens with her, you'll suffer with anxious preoccupation and it's related pain until you resolve it in yourself.
it takes everything a person has to address their own issues, and oftentimes focusing on what's wrong with a partner obstructs that.
just a reminder.
|
|
