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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2018 7:44:17 GMT
I agree she could be borderline, that push and pull dynamic could be easily mistaken with FA. And she evidently splits you (you didn't hurt her, she probably saw it as a sign of you abandoning her and decided to hate you before you do, anything can trigger this) It can be managed with DBT but she doesn't seem to be aware and willing enough. You really should think about getting out of that circle, it clearly wears you out and IF she's borderline she'll be back soon enough with all the intensity. I was looking at the Borderline symptoms. There are some that aren't present. I know they don't all have to be for there to be a BPD diagnosis though. These are DEFINITELY there though: -Efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment, such as rapidly initiating intimate (physical or emotional) relationships or cutting off communication with someone in anticipation of being abandoned -A pattern of intense and unstable relationships with family, friends, and loved ones, often swinging from extreme closeness and love (idealization) to extreme dislike or anger (devaluation) -Distorted and unstable self-image or sense of self (she has VERY low self-esteem) -Impulsive and often dangerous behaviors, such as spending sprees, unsafe sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, and binge eating(she drinks quite a bit to cope and does use Marijuana on occasion. Engages in one night stands using sex as a band-aid) -Intense and highly changeable moods, with each episode lasting from a few hours to a few days -Chronic feelings of emptiness (She's lonely and does want a relationship) -Inappropriate, intense anger or problems controlling anger (very quick to anger and defensiveness. Prone to outbursts where she will curse and verbally assault you. Elevated with alcohol) -Difficulty trusting, which is sometimes accompanied by irrational fear of other people’s intentions (she has definite trust issues. And apparently no longer trusts me) -Feelings of dissociation, such as feeling cut off from oneself, seeing oneself from outside one’s body, or feelings of unreality ( I've seen this once with her back in December) She could be on the spectrum... although unstable sense of self(from which everything steams from) is not really about self-esteem, but her not knowing what the self is. She needs(to seek) help(on her own) but you have to remember you can't and you shouldn't diagnose her. And you, to be honest seem to be trauma bonded to her. She's like a drag to you. Even if you don't want to give up on her you have to get out to get a perspective. You won't be objective or know what's good for you now. You might decide you're done with her when she acts out but when she's back will all the intensity you'll be hooked again. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2018 15:41:28 GMT
I was looking at the Borderline symptoms. There are some that aren't present. I know they don't all have to be for there to be a BPD diagnosis though. These are DEFINITELY there though: -Efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment, such as rapidly initiating intimate (physical or emotional) relationships or cutting off communication with someone in anticipation of being abandoned -A pattern of intense and unstable relationships with family, friends, and loved ones, often swinging from extreme closeness and love (idealization) to extreme dislike or anger (devaluation) -Distorted and unstable self-image or sense of self (she has VERY low self-esteem) -Impulsive and often dangerous behaviors, such as spending sprees, unsafe sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, and binge eating(she drinks quite a bit to cope and does use Marijuana on occasion. Engages in one night stands using sex as a band-aid) -Intense and highly changeable moods, with each episode lasting from a few hours to a few days -Chronic feelings of emptiness (She's lonely and does want a relationship) -Inappropriate, intense anger or problems controlling anger (very quick to anger and defensiveness. Prone to outbursts where she will curse and verbally assault you. Elevated with alcohol) -Difficulty trusting, which is sometimes accompanied by irrational fear of other people’s intentions (she has definite trust issues. And apparently no longer trusts me) -Feelings of dissociation, such as feeling cut off from oneself, seeing oneself from outside one’s body, or feelings of unreality ( I've seen this once with her back in December) She could be on the spectrum... although unstable sense of self(from which everything steams from) is not really about self-esteem, but her not knowing what the self is. She needs(to seek) help(on her own) but you have to remember you can't and you shouldn't diagnose her. And you, to be honest seem to be trauma bonded to her. She's like a drag to you. Even if you don't want to give up on her you have to get out to get a perspective. You won't be objective or know what's good for you now. You might decide you're done with her when she acts out but when she's back will all the intensity you'll be hooked again. very wise words indeed. take heed. |
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 25, 2018 15:46:41 GMT
I was looking at the Borderline symptoms. There are some that aren't present. I know they don't all have to be for there to be a BPD diagnosis though. These are DEFINITELY there though: -Efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment, such as rapidly initiating intimate (physical or emotional) relationships or cutting off communication with someone in anticipation of being abandoned -A pattern of intense and unstable relationships with family, friends, and loved ones, often swinging from extreme closeness and love (idealization) to extreme dislike or anger (devaluation) -Distorted and unstable self-image or sense of self (she has VERY low self-esteem) -Impulsive and often dangerous behaviors, such as spending sprees, unsafe sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, and binge eating(she drinks quite a bit to cope and does use Marijuana on occasion. Engages in one night stands using sex as a band-aid) -Intense and highly changeable moods, with each episode lasting from a few hours to a few days -Chronic feelings of emptiness (She's lonely and does want a relationship) -Inappropriate, intense anger or problems controlling anger (very quick to anger and defensiveness. Prone to outbursts where she will curse and verbally assault you. Elevated with alcohol) -Difficulty trusting, which is sometimes accompanied by irrational fear of other people’s intentions (she has definite trust issues. And apparently no longer trusts me) -Feelings of dissociation, such as feeling cut off from oneself, seeing oneself from outside one’s body, or feelings of unreality ( I've seen this once with her back in December) She could be on the spectrum... although unstable sense of self(from which everything steams from) is not really about self-esteem, but her not knowing what the self is. She needs(to seek) help(on her own) but you have to remember you can't and you shouldn't diagnose her. And you, to be honest seem to be trauma bonded to her. She's like a drag to you. Even if you don't want to give up on her you have to get out to get a perspective. You won't be objective or know what's good for you now. You might decide you're done with her when she acts out but when she's back will all the intensity you'll be hooked again. I was out of town for a week and it really helped to provide mental and emotional distance from B. Once I was out of my routine...I was able to gain some clarity I would not have had, had I tried to do it from my own place where he and I formed so many memories. |
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Post by lilyg on Aug 27, 2018 17:29:07 GMT
Chris, how are you? Hope you're better today.
She honestly sounds very similar to a friend's ex Who has BPD. Even if it is not the case please take lots of care for yourself. It will help if you take some distance to reflect on what's going on inside you.
Hugs!
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Post by cspragu on Aug 27, 2018 18:16:54 GMT
Chris, how are you? Hope you're better today. She honestly sounds very similar to a friend's ex Who has BPD. Even if it is not the case please take lots of care for yourself. It will help if you take some distance to reflect on what's going on inside you. Hugs! I'm not terrible today. Thanks for asking Lily. I haven't heard from her since the contemptuous phone attack. But I've been trying to occupy myself by reading and keeping my brain busy with other things...when possible. Many of you know how intrusive the painful thoughts and feelings can be at times. Im hoping to hear something from her at some point. I don't want her to resent me for being honest with her. |
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Post by epicgum on Aug 28, 2018 4:50:05 GMT
Someone else tossed the idea of BPD out on this thread earlier. I'm not sure exactly what's going on here, but I think it's more than FA. She may be angry at you, but I've never had an experience like that with any of the FA friends or exes I have, even during an argument. The closest I can relate is when an FA friend who also has anxiety and a mood disorder (diagnosed, not me assuming) gets really triggered I've seen her lash out in the moment but apologizes when she's calm. Please take care of yourself and your own issues and stop engaging with her. You're both driving each other crazy for some reason, and it's no good when it's getting mean on either side. I'm really sorry it ended up going this way. Her issues are not yours to fix, plus she's extra panicked and triggered due to her grandmother. Stop taking her messages, and take space for a good while instead. *hugs* She does suffer from pretty bad general anxiety and I would not be surprised if she had a mood disorder. She's up and down all the time. I just cant handle the negativity and the hurtful finality of her attack. I love this girl and its difficult to endure a verbal assault like that. Especially with a generous dose of condescension and mockery. I've never experienced anything like it with anyone else. I'm ashamed that I stayed on the phone and continued to try and talk to her. Its like my previously healthy levels of self respect and confidence have dwindled to nothing. After 10 years as a cop, I think I finally understand what keeps victims of abuse from leaving their abuser. The desperate hope that things will change. Oh, since my last breakup i TOOOOTALLY understand why people go back to the abuser. I understand stalking, I understand domestic violence. I had never felt an attatchment rupture this strong or damaging before. Edit: i also understand breakup songs now! |
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Post by goldilocks on Aug 28, 2018 6:25:35 GMT
seeing all his, don't forget to put the focus back on you, why you are in a self defeating pattern with her, and what you AP attachment wounding drives in your thinking and behavior. No matter what happens with her, you'll suffer with anxious preoccupation and it's related pain until you resolve it in yourself. it takes everything a person has to address their own issues, and oftentimes focusing on what's wrong with a partner obstructs that. just a reminder. She could be on the spectrum... although unstable sense of self(from which everything steams from) is not really about self-esteem, but her not knowing what the self is. She needs(to seek) help(on her own) but you have to remember you can't and you shouldn't diagnose her. And you, to be honest seem to be trauma bonded to her. She's like a drag to you. Even if you don't want to give up on her you have to get out to get a perspective. You won't be objective or know what's good for you now. You might decide you're done with her when she acts out but when she's back will all the intensity you'll be hooked again.I'm not terrible today. Thanks for asking Lily. I haven't heard from her since the contemptuous phone attack. But I've been trying to occupy myself by reading and keeping my brain busy with other things...when possible. Many of you know how intrusive the painful thoughts and feelings can be at times. Im hoping to hear something from her at some point. I don't want her to resent me for being honest with her.
.... She's up and down all the time. I just cant handle the negativity and the hurtful finality of her attack. I love this girl and its difficult to endure a verbal assault like that. Especially with a generous dose of condescension and mockery. I've never experienced anything like it with anyone else. I'm ashamed that I stayed on the phone and continued to try and talk to her. Its like my previously healthy levels of self respect and confidence have dwindled to nothing. After 10 years as a cop, I think I finally understand what keeps victims of abuse from leaving their abuser. The desperate hope that things will change.This is heartbreaking. Let me send you a hug before giving you a hard thing to consider. She has already been abusive. Yet you seem more worried about losing her than about the safety of yourself and your son. If you were in a professional situation, and you met an abused man with his young son, what would you do? You know the world is a hard place. You realise that man may get into a fight with his attacking girlfriend, have her accuse him and lose everything worth anything to him. How would you convince him to release the desperation and choose safety? |
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Post by lilyg on Aug 28, 2018 6:42:25 GMT
Chris, I'm happy that you're better. Please be safe 😊
I had an abusive partner once too (it was muy first adult relationship), I have nothing much to say but that there's a life after this and you'll feel much better. I know right now it's very difficult for you to see but give yourself time outside this. I know you love her but she will never give you the good love you want and you have your whole life ahead of you, a life with your son full of opportunities.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2018 11:31:13 GMT
this isn't love.
it's something else.
i'd be careful about romanticizing all this trauma and dysfunction, you clearly have a very distorted concept of love that is likely more related to attachment system activation and perhaps trauma bonding, definitely codependency.
whatever it is, there is no escaping the consequence of every little lie we tell ourselves in situations like this, and our children suffer right along with us, their lives are impacted also. unfortunately, they have no choice.
i'm sure you've seen that in your work, kids drug along through their parents drama. it happens all the time.
my children suffered from my blindness. we're ok now, but it took a while.
i think everyone's given great advice, but as you know, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. again, i'm sure you've seen it.
i'm not insensitive to your pain, in fact, i recognize that if you fail to change course on this you will no doubt endure more, with escalation and increased intensity. If i wasn't sensitive to your pain i wouldn't bother commenting to encourage you to walk away from this madness.
i know it's hard. people can and do leave situations like this, of their own volition. you can too if you want to, but maybe you don't and no one will force you.
wishing you clarity.
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Post by writerguy on Sept 15, 2018 16:57:52 GMT
I wish we could have that type of dynamic with all of the understanding, compassion, and awareness it requires. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be in the cards. I shot her that long email two days ago and it clearly hurt her. She messaged me a long text last night stating that Im not qualified to make a diagnosis and that Im "fucking sick". She kept referencing a portion of the email where I stated that I was in love with her potential. She took that out of context but the damage was done. I called her and tried to clear it up but she was extremely hateful and condescending. It clearly hurt her feelings and I felt bad about it. But she was verbally abusive and closed off to anything I had to say. I should've refused to participate in the conversation with the way she was acting but I kept trying to reassure her. She stated that she's "never coming back" and that I'm "sicker and need more therapy than she does". She said she will "never trust me again" and at one point I was crying in response to her being so upset and she said "Ok Chris I can hear you're crying, you can stop now". It was toxic and contemptuous and I feel like shes a lost cause at this point. I'm numb Just saw this thread and thought I'd add my two cents (sense?) I recently broke off with my FA after 15 YEARS of push-pull, broken engagement, too many "I love yous" without responses, too many miserable nights wondering where she was, two affairs (that I know of.) I became a shell of my former secure self and then discovered from the therapist attachment theory and the FA that I was looking at. It was eye-opening, frightening, and seemed nothing but tragic. I'm a writer, so like yourself, I like to solve puzzles and know things inside-out. Like you, too, I also read everything I could on attachment theory, went back over things (to even the first time we had sex and she said, afterwards: "Well, I figured if this didn't come to anything at least I'd get some sex out of it.") to understand how many things I'd missed. I kicked myself, and beat myself up, and wondered how I let myself down so badly. But at least I know now what I was looking at. When I finally broke up with her we talked for four hours and I got answers and closure to so many issues - including that she broke off our engagement 10 years earlier because it felt to like she's have to "kill herself" if she went through with it. And, as my therapist told me, when I broke it off she was able to be open with me because I was leaving (how awful it that?!) She talked to me like the same frightened person who 15 years earlier had told me she couldn't be in a relationship and that she was broken. As painful as it was, I finally believed it. I finally saw that after 15 years with me she was still the same, frightened little girl (in a 48 year old woman's body.) I knew the only thing I could do was let her go. It was one of the MOST PAINFUL things I've ever done in my life, and I'm a former Marine. All of this is to say: I hope you're well. I hope you realize what is best FOR YOU. DON'T do as I did and wait for years and years until you hit rock bottom being isolated from your friends and family because they don't want to hear about it and because you're desperately waiting for her to live up to the plans she said she would follow through with (but breaks every time.) You can only HELP YOURSELF. You can only look into YOUR STUFF and leave her to figure out her stuff. You CAN'T SAVE HER and she won't suddenly change and it won't ever be what you want. Believe me, I've tried every which way for 15 years and finally accept the tragedy of the situation. But I'm pushing forward - I have a great therapist, I have great friends who've forgiven me for putting them on a back burner for a woman who can't love me, and I know I will find something bigger and better as I repair and accept the broken pieces of myself. It's a hard, hard thing...I know. But it's okay to be selfish in this case with your heart. It will only make it bigger and more open for the REAL LOVE when it comes your way. |
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Post by cspragu on Sept 24, 2018 13:20:33 GMT
I wish we could have that type of dynamic with all of the understanding, compassion, and awareness it requires. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be in the cards. I shot her that long email two days ago and it clearly hurt her. She messaged me a long text last night stating that Im not qualified to make a diagnosis and that Im "fucking sick". She kept referencing a portion of the email where I stated that I was in love with her potential. She took that out of context but the damage was done. I called her and tried to clear it up but she was extremely hateful and condescending. It clearly hurt her feelings and I felt bad about it. But she was verbally abusive and closed off to anything I had to say. I should've refused to participate in the conversation with the way she was acting but I kept trying to reassure her. She stated that she's "never coming back" and that I'm "sicker and need more therapy than she does". She said she will "never trust me again" and at one point I was crying in response to her being so upset and she said "Ok Chris I can hear you're crying, you can stop now". It was toxic and contemptuous and I feel like shes a lost cause at this point. I'm numb Just saw this thread and thought I'd add my two cents (sense?) I recently broke off with my FA after 15 YEARS of push-pull, broken engagement, too many "I love yous" without responses, too many miserable nights wondering where she was, two affairs (that I know of.) I became a shell of my former secure self and then discovered from the therapist attachment theory and the FA that I was looking at. It was eye-opening, frightening, and seemed nothing but tragic. I'm a writer, so like yourself, I like to solve puzzles and know things inside-out. Like you, too, I also read everything I could on attachment theory, went back over things (to even the first time we had sex and she said, afterwards: "Well, I figured if this didn't come to anything at least I'd get some sex out of it.") to understand how many things I'd missed. I kicked myself, and beat myself up, and wondered how I let myself down so badly. But at least I know now what I was looking at. When I finally broke up with her we talked for four hours and I got answers and closure to so many issues - including that she broke off our engagement 10 years earlier because it felt to like she's have to "kill herself" if she went through with it. And, as my therapist told me, when I broke it off she was able to be open with me because I was leaving (how awful it that?!) She talked to me like the same frightened person who 15 years earlier had told me she couldn't be in a relationship and that she was broken. As painful as it was, I finally believed it. I finally saw that after 15 years with me she was still the same, frightened little girl (in a 48 year old woman's body.) I knew the only thing I could do was let her go. It was one of the MOST PAINFUL things I've ever done in my life, and I'm a former Marine. All of this is to say: I hope you're well. I hope you realize what is best FOR YOU. DON'T do as I did and wait for years and years until you hit rock bottom being isolated from your friends and family because they don't want to hear about it and because you're desperately waiting for her to live up to the plans she said she would follow through with (but breaks every time.) You can only HELP YOURSELF. You can only look into YOUR STUFF and leave her to figure out her stuff. You CAN'T SAVE HER and she won't suddenly change and it won't ever be what you want. Believe me, I've tried every which way for 15 years and finally accept the tragedy of the situation. But I'm pushing forward - I have a great therapist, I have great friends who've forgiven me for putting them on a back burner for a woman who can't love me, and I know I will find something bigger and better as I repair and accept the broken pieces of myself. It's a hard, hard thing...I know. But it's okay to be selfish in this case with your heart. It will only make it bigger and more open for the REAL LOVE when it comes your way. I just saw this post and I want you to know that I really appreciate your words. Everything you wrote really resonated with me and, to be honest, I needed that today. There are a lot of parallels between your story and mine and that brings me some comfort. Two months after the 4th breakup and I'm still missing her and beating myself up for things I could've done better or should've done differently. I know that I'm holding myself to a ridiculous standard and looking at the whole thing from the perspective of someone who was trying to conduct a relationship around someone else's issues instead of honoring himself and his own needs. But I still find myself being horribly critical of my inability to control my feelings in the face of her inconsistent, sometimes abusive, and highly avoidant behavior. Its a sobering feeling to know and understand what's happening but still be powerless to change it. I should've walked away....but I couldn't. And I've got a new therapist whos helping me address the issues responsible for my willingness to abandon myself for this girl. I do realize what's best for me and I know that we need to be apart. We have virtually no contact with each other excluding the occasional acknowledgement at the gym. But my heart doesn't always jive with my head and I get really depressed about it at times. Hopefully I can get a handle on it soon. I really appreciate you sharing your experience with me. I mean that...thank you. |
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Post by writerguy on Sept 24, 2018 18:38:25 GMT
Just saw this thread and thought I'd add my two cents (sense?) I recently broke off with my FA after 15 YEARS of push-pull, broken engagement, too many "I love yous" without responses, too many miserable nights wondering where she was, two affairs (that I know of.) I became a shell of my former secure self and then discovered from the therapist attachment theory and the FA that I was looking at. It was eye-opening, frightening, and seemed nothing but tragic. I'm a writer, so like yourself, I like to solve puzzles and know things inside-out. Like you, too, I also read everything I could on attachment theory, went back over things (to even the first time we had sex and she said, afterwards: "Well, I figured if this didn't come to anything at least I'd get some sex out of it.") to understand how many things I'd missed. I kicked myself, and beat myself up, and wondered how I let myself down so badly. But at least I know now what I was looking at. When I finally broke up with her we talked for four hours and I got answers and closure to so many issues - including that she broke off our engagement 10 years earlier because it felt to like she's have to "kill herself" if she went through with it. And, as my therapist told me, when I broke it off she was able to be open with me because I was leaving (how awful it that?!) She talked to me like the same frightened person who 15 years earlier had told me she couldn't be in a relationship and that she was broken. As painful as it was, I finally believed it. I finally saw that after 15 years with me she was still the same, frightened little girl (in a 48 year old woman's body.) I knew the only thing I could do was let her go. It was one of the MOST PAINFUL things I've ever done in my life, and I'm a former Marine. All of this is to say: I hope you're well. I hope you realize what is best FOR YOU. DON'T do as I did and wait for years and years until you hit rock bottom being isolated from your friends and family because they don't want to hear about it and because you're desperately waiting for her to live up to the plans she said she would follow through with (but breaks every time.) You can only HELP YOURSELF. You can only look into YOUR STUFF and leave her to figure out her stuff. You CAN'T SAVE HER and she won't suddenly change and it won't ever be what you want. Believe me, I've tried every which way for 15 years and finally accept the tragedy of the situation. But I'm pushing forward - I have a great therapist, I have great friends who've forgiven me for putting them on a back burner for a woman who can't love me, and I know I will find something bigger and better as I repair and accept the broken pieces of myself. It's a hard, hard thing...I know. But it's okay to be selfish in this case with your heart. It will only make it bigger and more open for the REAL LOVE when it comes your way. I just saw this post and I want you to know that I really appreciate your words. Everything you wrote really resonated with me and, to be honest, I needed that today. There are a lot of parallels between your story and mine and that brings me some comfort. Two months after the 4th breakup and I'm still missing her and beating myself up for things I could've done better or should've done differently. I know that I'm holding myself to a ridiculous standard and looking at the whole thing from the perspective of someone who was trying to conduct a relationship around someone else's issues instead of honoring himself and his own needs. But I still find myself being horribly critical of my inability to control my feelings in the face of her inconsistent, sometimes abusive, and highly avoidant behavior. Its a sobering feeling to know and understand what's happening but still be powerless to change it. I should've walked away....but I couldn't. And I've got a new therapist whos helping me address the issues responsible for my willingness to abandon myself for this girl. I do realize what's best for me and I know that we need to be apart. We have virtually no contact with each other excluding the occasional acknowledgement at the gym. But my heart doesn't always jive with my head and I get really depressed about it at times. Hopefully I can get a handle on it soon. I really appreciate you sharing your experience with me. I mean that...thank you. I'm glad I could help. That's why we're all here. And also, I've been doing this for the past couple of weeks: using my ex as a MIRROR to my own stuff. It takes two to tango...use this as a way to look deep into YOU. It will be PAINFUL and AWFUL. Trust me. It will will be like ripping your heart out all over again. But I feel like I'm so done with blaming and reading about attachment theory (I feel like I could teach a friggin' college course!) that I really want change FOR MYSELF. I now turn every question I think about her back ONTO ME. Why do I FEAR BEING ABANDONED? What broken part of me think a half relationship is what I DESERVE? Where's my self-esteem at. Trust me, it's not pretty. But it's the only thing you can do for yourself. And I have a great therapist so that helps. Be well, my friend. |
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