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Post by mrob on Aug 17, 2018 23:24:44 GMT
cspragu Thankyou. It’s my indignance to begin with, followed by actually feeling the feelings in retrospect, then the circling to reconnect that’s of interest. I’d have put money on that I wouldn’t do that.
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Post by cspragu on Aug 18, 2018 0:02:37 GMT
cspragu Thankyou. It’s my indignance to begin with, followed by actually feeling the feelings in retrospect, then the circling to reconnect that’s of interest. I’d have put money on that I wouldn’t do that. Just to clarify. Are you saying that you would’ve put money down that you wouldn’t circle back to reconnect when you’re feeling flooded and deactivating? |
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Post by mrob on Aug 19, 2018 14:33:45 GMT
Absolutely right. Not in a million years! I’d had that experience once before, with my first wife, where after three months, I regretted throwing her out. My rationale was, I’m a different bloke now. But alas, no. Some things, without work, don’t change.
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Post by cspragu on Aug 19, 2018 15:17:48 GMT
Absolutely right. Not in a million years! I’d had that experience once before, with my first wife, where after three months, I regretted throwing her out. My rationale was, I’m a different bloke now. But alas, no. Some things, without work, don’t change. She gives the same impression generally. It’s like a switch suddenly flips and she goes from loving me to shutting me out completely...with manufactured contempt. Strangely, she met me to talk last Tuesday and was incredibly conflicted, emotional, and affectionate. She initiated everything all the way up to a really passionate sexual encounter and then a tearful cuddle afterwards. We were together for several hours. It was an oddly fast turnaround given her previous patterns. She’s texted me a few times since, but nothing significant. I can’t make heads or tales of it other than it’s obvious she cares about me. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2018 17:39:35 GMT
splitting
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Post by cspragu on Aug 19, 2018 17:47:32 GMT
Would you mind elaborating? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2018 17:56:06 GMT
You can google it. It's basically a defense mechanism, she "splits" you. In her head you're either all good or all bad, nothing in between.
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Post by cspragu on Aug 22, 2018 18:03:46 GMT
Here's an update to my ridiculous saga. She came over last Tuesday and was essentially all over me. Then we texted off and on with a day or two gap in between. nothing crazy just small talk. I asked her to dinner on Monday but she had plans and didn't suggest an alternative date. She gave me her grandmothers diagnosis of breast cancer and was worried about the anesthesia. I told her to think positive and to let me know if she needs any recommendations or referrals on anesthetists(my mother is a CRNA). I then told her that I'm here for her and I'm not abandoning her, but that I was going to stop reaching out to try and make plans. I said that It was difficult for me to put myself out there given our situation and that I felt like I should probably be giving her some space. She got upset about that and didn't respond for 5 hours or so. An argument ensued when she finally did because she was so angry that I said that to her shortly after finding out that her grandma has cancer. I felt bad about the timing of the message but couldn't take it back.
She texted me last night saying that our chemistry was amazing and that she missed me. But our communication is poor and the fact that we aren't even together but she's so angry she cant answer a text "should say something". She said when were together its great but when were apart "all hell breaks loose". I don't even know what that means. She said it sucks because Tuesday was amazing and that this isn't easy for her. Then she sent another text saying that our socialization styles are completely different and that she didn't like having to facilitate conversations between her parents and I(ive met them once) and her friends and I(who I see at the gym all the time). She also said that she feels like I don't care about her relationship with her friends and have no desire to have one with them myself. None of that is true and I was at a loss. I called her and said that our communication will always be an issue if she gets angry and defensive at the first sight of a conversation regarding feelings or the relationship. She told me that I wasn't doing the right things to calm her down. I also told her that she was way off base with her assertion that I don't care about her friends. I really didn't know what else to say at that point. Her mind was made up and I felt like it was a waste of time. We sat on the phone for a while and she cried a little and said this sucks...then we got off.
I laid awake, hurt and angry, and realized how ridiculous it was for her to expect me to diffuse her anger the "right way" even though she didn't have any suggestion as to what that may be. I'm not responsible for her anger and it isn't reasonable to lash out at me any time I bring a concern to her attention. I sent a LOOOOONG email to her a little bit ago just laying everything out as I saw it and how I felt. She, of course, said it was a demeaning attack and that it hurt her. Now were back where we were in December. She bails...reconnects with me with a lot of emotion. Makes an excuse to run off. I respond with how I'm feeling via email because saying it to her face is a recipe for a blowup. and were estranged and I feel like shit.
help...? |
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Post by alexandra on Aug 22, 2018 19:25:36 GMT
I'm sorry this is still so difficult and painful for you, with no clarity in sight. Adding real concerns over a sick family member is going to make things even more emotionally erratic than they have been.
However, you're still tolerating whatever she throws at you. Even in this case, you verbally asserted a boundary (which, really is a good step for you!)-- but then you've done nothing to stick to it even though it's what's best for you. I imagine you want to feel heard and like you've communicated clearly, because I've been in the same position plenty of times, so you keep trying all different ways. But right now, for whatever reason, it just isn't possible. She's not hearing you the way you want to be heard, and she feels you're not hearing her either. Continuing to communicate ineffectively and letting both her and yourself ignore the needs you just stated you have isn't going to go anywhere except in more circles.
You really need to give yourself a break and not be at her beck and call. The timing may feel bad, since she's dealing with a lot of stress, but you've been there for her over and over for a very long time, and it's not moving you forward. Say what you need to say to let her down gently or to reassure her that you'll be there if things go really bad for her grandmother even if you're not otherwise in touch, but otherwise stick to your guns here. You can't change her or help her right now, you can only focus on yourself and giving yourself the gift of some distance and perspective to see what's going on here and figure out what you actually need for yourself.
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Post by mrob on Aug 22, 2018 23:15:08 GMT
Wow. There’s her immaturity. This isn’t just attachment styles at play. . I would never give my power away like that, expecting kid glove treatment at every turn and throwing a paddy when somebody acted differently. Somebody has to step out of this circle, for your sanity, and it won’t be her. This is a cycle of sickness. If you continue to engage, what is your own pay off? What are you getting out of it?
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Post by cspragu on Aug 23, 2018 0:30:16 GMT
You’re absolutely right mrob. I love her to death but she is not capable of having the type of relationship I want. Attachment wise she’s as FA as It gets and her immaturity makes trying to deal with those issues that much harder. I need to step away like I did before. It’s sad....I do enjoy having her in my life.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 7:20:19 GMT
anne12 , i think it's a little misguided for you, a non-attachment injured individual ( from what i understand?) to minimize the dynamic here between a severely anxious partner (losing his shit) and a very FA partner. have you experienced this yourself or are you just an observer? There is something to actually experiencing insecure attachment when advising someone who is losing their shit over an unavailable partner. not that your input isn't appreciated but i am seeing your lack of understanding in this post. what he is doing is very codependent- he is not a secure person trying to understand, he is a VERY insecure person trying to manage another person's insecurity, in order to manage his own. To the poster: Ah, okay I see now how toxic the interaction between the poster and his girlfriend is. I dident see the first time around. So do not listen to my advice. Sorry! To Juniper: To make things clear: Just because I´m not posting about much of my own issues on the forum, that does not mean, that I havent had any struggels with attatchment stuff myself. I have posted some in private posts. I am close to secure and not on the extreme end of any of the attatchment styles. I have/have had some situaitional trauma, that can kick me into dessorganised attatchmentstyle in special situations, and I have a mix of the different attatchment styles but the main attatchmentstyle is now secure. I do not stay in bad relationsships. I have had - in my own opinion as a sensitive person (some HSP traits)- my fair share of accidents, narc boses, parents divorced, mum hospitalised many times when I was a child, and two parents with cancer and alzheimer, at the same time. Both died this year. Some of the "self help advises" I have done myself/with therapists or/and together with some of my friends, with different kind of attatchmentstyles. And I have attetended in education workshops about SE/attatchment wounding, I have been a demo workning with the desorganised part of me, I have seen people with some of the other attachment styles as demos, and I have tried almost all of the selfregulating exercises myself and with other people. I can selfregulate and co-regulate (I have learned them in workshops with SE/attatchment therapist/psycologists/gestalt therapists educated by Peter Levine, Diane Poole Heller, Raja Selvman ect. and I have met Peter Levine in persen twice) I use nerveussystem selfregulation/co regulaton in my daily interaction with oter people - if other people are more or less activated I use soft tone of voice, kind eyes and sometimes touch (on the shoulder or arm). I am happy to pass on some of my self help posts on to other people in this forum. anne12, Just to say - I really, really appreciate your posts. I could tell where you've come from and can relate very much, having also trained in / experienced various types of body-work as well as worked on my own (mixed) attachment styles. Please continue to post your wisdom. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 7:46:19 GMT
cspragu - feeling for you!
I know what it's like to get destabilised into a crazy relationship that pulls you off-balance / leaves you blaming yourself (often because you are mostly being blamed).
The way out is educating yourself, being kind to yourself and acceptance.
My take on this thread, again refers to something I posted on another thread - that unconditional love / acceptance is the key (for yourself too).
Acceptance / unconditional love means seeing what is actually there, rather than what you want to be there.
As some recognise, attachment styles are not static, but fluid, depending upon the particular matching (i.e., a Secure can be triggered into AP with an FA or DA), even if at only 5% initially. I can see how, as I learnt more about myself / my own triggers, I made similar mistakes - until I rediscovered / understood attachment theory (I had been aware of my 'ways' for years, familiar with Bowlby, etc, but it wasn't until I read up on attachment theory details again that everything fell into place).
When you recognise your own triggers and can own them and learn to 'manage' / overcome them or the level to which you can manage / accept them, you are then able 'see' what the other is presenting to you. Maybe not immediately, but the cycle of recognition becomes much swifter, the more you work on yourself and the more you progress.
There is a comment about a DA being Secure with another DA - this is more about recognition and acceptance, I believe. I.e., if the DA was in a relationship with a Secure, their DA tendencies could be triggered, taking them away from Secure - but because the other is familiar / the DA understands the reactions, etc, they can (both) handle / deal with them.
So, learning about yourself, your triggers, the causes for the triggers, the effects on others and the effects of others triggers on you is all part of the process - to acceptance and unconditional love. (if you love them, let them go and all that).
It's a long old process but is worth the effort - you then look around and see how much dysfunction is going on all around, that every relationship has some element of attachment issues, even tiny.
FWIW, I don't believe anyone can be 100% Secure - that is an unrealistic, robotic target of perfection for someone who has lived in a bubble all their life (and THAT itself would cause all sorts of issues!) - as anxiety is a natural part of being human and is linked to basic survival, as is detachment a part of how our brains cope with every day life.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 12:53:21 GMT
Here's an update to my ridiculous saga. She came over last Tuesday and was essentially all over me. Then we texted off and on with a day or two gap in between. nothing crazy just small talk. I asked her to dinner on Monday but she had plans and didn't suggest an alternative date. She gave me her grandmothers diagnosis of breast cancer and was worried about the anesthesia. I told her to think positive and to let me know if she needs any recommendations or referrals on anesthetists(my mother is a CRNA). I then told her that I'm here for her and I'm not abandoning her, but that I was going to stop reaching out to try and make plans. I said that It was difficult for me to put myself out there given our situation and that I felt like I should probably be giving her some space. She got upset about that and didn't respond for 5 hours or so. An argument ensued when she finally did because she was so angry that I said that to her shortly after finding out that her grandma has cancer. I felt bad about the timing of the message but couldn't take it back.
She texted me last night saying that our chemistry was amazing and that she missed me. But our communication is poor and the fact that we aren't even together but she's so angry she cant answer a text "should say something". She said when were together its great but when were apart "all hell breaks loose". I don't even know what that means. She said it sucks because Tuesday was amazing and that this isn't easy for her. Then she sent another text saying that our socialization styles are completely different and that she didn't like having to facilitate conversations between her parents and I(ive met them once) and her friends and I(who I see at the gym all the time). She also said that she feels like I don't care about her relationship with her friends and have no desire to have one with them myself. None of that is true and I was at a loss. I called her and said that our communication will always be an issue if she gets angry and defensive at the first sight of a conversation regarding feelings or the relationship. She told me that I wasn't doing the right things to calm her down. I also told her that she was way off base with her assertion that I don't care about her friends. I really didn't know what else to say at that point. Her mind was made up and I felt like it was a waste of time. We sat on the phone for a while and she cried a little and said this sucks...then we got off.
I laid awake, hurt and angry, and realized how ridiculous it was for her to expect me to diffuse her anger the "right way" even though she didn't have any suggestion as to what that may be. I'm not responsible for her anger and it isn't reasonable to lash out at me any time I bring a concern to her attention. I sent a LOOOOONG email to her a little bit ago just laying everything out as I saw it and how I felt. She, of course, said it was a demeaning attack and that it hurt her. Now were back where we were in December. She bails...reconnects with me with a lot of emotion. Makes an excuse to run off. I respond with how I'm feeling via email because saying it to her face is a recipe for a blowup. and were estranged and I feel like shit.
help...? To be honest from what you wrote it seems really about communication and different needs, rather than attachment per se. It's good when you're together because you're in the moment enjoying your company and when you part some kind of power struggle begins. "I then told her that I'm here for her and I'm not abandoning her, but that I was going to stop reaching out to try and make plans." You pull then you push at once. You either are in or out. You want to get your needs met in a passive agressive way. What's your MBTI type? You seem like a Fe (extroverted feelings) user while she might be using a different communication style and you miss each other there. It seems like you both would benefit from having a mediator. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 15:13:40 GMT
this relationship cycle bears a lot of similarity to addiction,
with highs and lows and features of dependency, along with the feelings and thinking patterns that go along with trying to turn something painful into the solution for pain.
i sympathize with the difficulty of it, and wish healing for all involved.
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