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Post by epicgum on Sept 12, 2018 3:03:54 GMT
Hmm, I didn't realize that passion and sparkle were different things. In that case not sure if I ever had or wanted the sparkle, but was worried about losing the explosive sexual passion we had whenever we met.
I think she meant were you worried both you and your partner would lose it, or just you would lose it? Not that you would lose both, ie passion/sparkle are different things. So far they seem to be used interchangeable throughout the thread.
Haha ok, hmm. Yeah, I think for both of us. It seemed kind of like a mutual thing. |
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Post by goldilocks on Sept 12, 2018 4:41:52 GMT
For me the process of breaking up makes the ex less attractive to me. I may even be repulsed. If nothing bad happened we can be friends, but I could never be lovers again. Are you DA or FA? Apologies, I can't remember. I would have agreed with you except for this current ex. I guess time will tell. For me the process of breaking up makes the ex less attractive to me. I may even be repulsed. If nothing bad happened we can be friends, but I could never be lovers again. Your primary style is DA right? Did you break up with them or them with you? And was it usually a drawn-out or messy breakup? My last phantom ex broke up with me extremely suddenly, so I was left with all the great memories and no bad ones aside from the actual breakup, which was very fast and, well, polite. The one before him didn't even really break up with me per se, just stopped making any effort to see me and pulled back a lot from communication and I stopped chasing him and let him disappear. It was still pretty quick and confusing, and obviously both of them were the ones who rejected me. My sister who did test FA but very slanted towards DA would never have a phantom ex or get back with an ex, regardless of who ended it or how it ended. I think it's a self-protection mechanism for her, that she generally rapidly finds exes repellant and not even suitable for friendship, and they even look physically different to her, for example she might be convinced someone put on a huge amount of weight since their recent breakup, while I think they look the same. I am secure/DA. I feel no need to draw out a breakup, and it does not matter who initiated the break. Once I know we have no future together, I want them out of my space and they physically repulse me at least a little. If it was a clean breakup, and he was a good person but just not the one, I continue to care for him and wish him well, and we might certainly rekindle the friendship if it was good. The do not look different to me, but it is more like a food that made me sick once; it just repulses. I'd rather be with a fresh, new person. If there were qualities I enjoyed, I'd rather have some of them in a new guy. |
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Post by lilyg on Sept 12, 2018 8:54:53 GMT
lilyg , that's neat to know that your friend is in a similar boat as me re: sparkles and AP tendencies with women and working on embracing a stable and secure relationship with a man. Sometimes we can feel like such one-of-a-kind little monsters around stuff like this. It's a comfort to know there's a matching monster out there! No doubt we each have our own path and process, but it's nice to find commonality around an uncommon thing. Feel free to tell your friend that I exist too! happyidiot , outrageous costumes are where it's at, right? Google image search results were disappointing - was picturing rudimentary Charlie Brown ghost costume made of supercolourful sequinned fabric, not sure anyone else has had this brilliant idea? So I will just have to make that shiny ghost suit myself and put it on and stare myself down in the mirror the the next time I take myself, my sparkle quest, and/or my phantom ex too seriously. Will change my profile pic accordingly. Will do! She's one of the best and most interesting person I know, I'm glad she's building happiness with a good partner that loves and respects her but also pushes her to be better and more vulnerable. I wish you the best in this journey too  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2018 14:45:35 GMT
I think maryt and juniper you have both had atypical dating lives. When most people think about the qualities of the phantom ex they are not thinking of abuse of hair color, but things like mutual interests, playfulness, sexuality, intellect, passion, humor, physical attractiveness etc. i think @mary and i are both on the deeper end of avoidant spectrum, not pathological but very emotionally reclusive , (sorry if i am misspeaking, mary!). I know my deep dismissive state made abuse of me possible because i shut down and was able to remain insulated, and indeed had very little nurturing to go on from my childhood to even have a sense of real connection to a partner. so, i'm sure that other DA with less severe situations had more connection than i have experienced. Yes, I would say I am not in touch with my feelings, which is part of why I am DA. But I only mentioned abuse as it was mentioned by the OP. I think that people have the phantom ex, because they focus on the good parts of the relationship and the idealization makes the bad parts/memories fade. I am sure my dating life was/is atypical as I have only had 2 and I do not actively seek dating relationships. I can't speak for other DAs, but I am very good at dismissing exes. I wish they have a good life after the break up and I care about them as a person, but they do not become phantoms. My feelings become neutral or indifferent towards them. |
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Post by goldilocks on Sept 13, 2018 6:32:13 GMT
I can't speak for other DAs, but I am very good at dismissing exes. I wish they have a good life after the break up and I care about them as a person, but they do not become phantoms. My feelings become neutral or indifferent towards them. I feel exactly the same way. |
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 13, 2018 7:10:38 GMT
Do you find that you are mentally/emotionally attracted to women, like would you be happy with one as your primary long-term partner or have you tried that? I ask because I know two people who mostly date and mentally connect with one gender but feel most sexually drawn to and sparkly with another gender. Both are highly avoidant. I can explain more details if you like. I am totally interested in details about the dynamics you've observed in others. If you think they are of general relevance and interest, please share! And if not, please feel free to PM me. One is a man who has mostly dated and been in relationships with women, however he finds that he is most sexually attracted to men (and has a lot of sex with men). He will meet women that he seems to really connect with mentally, who look like they'd be his "type," who have similar interests and all that stuff, but then when they get close he usually pulls away, believing they will never give him the passion that a man does. Or sometimes he imagines they will never be ok with polyamory. With the men he sees, he never really pursues anything beyond sex and might just say they didn't connect mentally or that guy would never date someone like him. His "sparkle phantom" is the idea that someday he will meet a man who he is not only highly sexually attracted to and stays that way but that he actually wants a relationship with and connects with mentally and who fits into his life well and makes him feel safe and comfortable. That seems impossible. And the kind of man he thinks is super hot is so different from him. Haha ok, hmm. Yeah, I think for both of us. It seemed kind of like a mutual thing. was right about what I meant, I was just curious if you were concerned both you and your partner would lose passion, or were only thinking you would lose your passionate feelings if you were living together. I have the same concern, that if I live with someone both of us will lose our passion for each other, that we will grow bored. I am secure/DA. I feel no need to draw out a breakup, and it does not matter who initiated the break. Once I know we have no future together, I want them out of my space and they physically repulse me at least a little. If it was a clean breakup, and he was a good person but just not the one, I continue to care for him and wish him well, and we might certainly rekindle the friendship if it was good. The do not look different to me, but it is more like a food that made me sick once; it just repulses. I'd rather be with a fresh, new person. If there were qualities I enjoyed, I'd rather have some of them in a new guy. I am very good at dismissing exes. I wish they have a good life after the break up and I care about them as a person, but they do not become phantoms. My feelings become neutral or indifferent towards them. What you both (and goldilocks ) said makes sense, I usually feel that way quickly with people I've broken up with (unless I really didn't want to break up and was just doing it because being with them was hurting me) and even some who broke up with me if we stayed friends. I wish I could turn it on for people who have broken up with me and then left my life. I wonder if the phantom ex is an FA thing... |
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Post by andy on Sept 13, 2018 15:35:55 GMT
I am totally interested in details about the dynamics you've observed in others. If you think they are of general relevance and interest, please share! And if not, please feel free to PM me. One is a man who has mostly dated and been in relationships with women, however he finds that he is most sexually attracted to men (and has a lot of sex with men). He will meet women that he seems to really connect with mentally, who look like they'd be his "type," who have similar interests and all that stuff, but then when they get close he usually pulls away, believing they will never give him the passion that a man does. Or sometimes he imagines they will never be ok with polyamory. With the men he sees, he never really pursues anything beyond sex and might just say they didn't connect mentally or that guy would never date someone like him. His "sparkle phantom" is the idea that someday he will meet a man who he is not only highly sexually attracted to and stays that way but that he actually wants a relationship with and connects with mentally and who fits into his life well and makes him feel safe and comfortable. That seems impossible. And the kind of man he thinks is super hot is so different from him. Interesting. Lots of people would suspect homophobia in this instance (external and internalized). Not that homophobia can't wound people in a way that gives rise to attachment injuries or interact with attachment injuries from other sources. And yet... I'm a person who spent 15+ years feeling broken because of my mixed-up sexual and romantic orientations and avoiding relationships mainly for that reason (and sure, attachment stuff was tangled up in it, no doubt). I ultimately came to feel as happy and peaceful as I do about it today by accepting that it's a real thing, it's the way I roll (up until now anyway - if it changes later that's okay), and there is no need for me to go looking for hidden problematic sources or try to correct it. So while I definitely see how attachment stuff can interact with orientation stuff, I also want to be cautious about speculating about possible negative roots of the ways people feel attracted. Because I did that to myself for ages and it was miserable and anxiety-provoking and kept me really afraid of relationships. I can see that your friend's situation may be a little different as he is being kept out of relationships currently, and he does want relationships by the sounds of it, so clearly there's a blockage for him. And I'm not saying I'm completely unblocked myself, of course, just that accepting that I'm more romantically drawn to women and sexually drawn to men has done much much more to UNblock me than to block me. And also, I totally understand that you were not trying to say otherwise! Just offering my own take on it from my experience. |
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 13, 2018 17:25:16 GMT
One is a man who has mostly dated and been in relationships with women, however he finds that he is most sexually attracted to men (and has a lot of sex with men). He will meet women that he seems to really connect with mentally, who look like they'd be his "type," who have similar interests and all that stuff, but then when they get close he usually pulls away, believing they will never give him the passion that a man does. Or sometimes he imagines they will never be ok with polyamory. With the men he sees, he never really pursues anything beyond sex and might just say they didn't connect mentally or that guy would never date someone like him. His "sparkle phantom" is the idea that someday he will meet a man who he is not only highly sexually attracted to and stays that way but that he actually wants a relationship with and connects with mentally and who fits into his life well and makes him feel safe and comfortable. That seems impossible. And the kind of man he thinks is super hot is so different from him. Interesting. Lots of people would suspect homophobia in this instance (external and internalized). Not that homophobia can't wound people in a way that gives rise to attachment injuries or interact with attachment injuries from other sources. And yet... I'm a person who spent 15+ years feeling broken because of my mixed-up sexual and romantic orientations and avoiding relationships mainly for that reason (and sure, attachment stuff was tangled up in it, no doubt). I ultimately came to feel as happy and peaceful as I do about it today by accepting that it's a real thing, it's the way I roll (up until now anyway - if it changes later that's okay), and there is no need for me to go looking for hidden problematic sources or try to correct it. So while I definitely see how attachment stuff can interact with orientation stuff, I also want to be cautious about speculating about possible negative roots of the ways people feel attracted. Because I did that to myself for ages and it was miserable and anxiety-provoking and kept me really afraid of relationships. I can see that your friend's situation may be a little different as he is being kept out of relationships currently, and he does want relationships by the sounds of it, so clearly there's a blockage for him. And I'm not saying I'm completely unblocked myself, of course, just that accepting that I'm more romantically drawn to women and sexually drawn to men has done much much more to UNblock me than to block me. And also, I totally understand that you were not trying to say otherwise! Just offering my own take on it from my experience. Very insightful. On the surface it might seem unlikely that he isn't getting serious with men due to homophobia, since he lives in one of the most gay-friendly places and is extremely open about being bisexual. His current theory is that he finds high sexual attraction with people he doesn't connect with mentally (usually men), and conversely uncontrollably loses attraction to people (usually women) he does once they get close, as an unintentional way to prevent getting into a serious relationship. Like, he could date men who were more suitable otherwise, if it was only that he's primarily attracted to men. I read somewhere that (taking anything to do with sexual orientation out of it) it is not uncommon for FA people to stop having sex with someone once they feel really close, like it's too much to bear having a physical AND mental connection simultaneously. I suspect that might have happened to me. |
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Post by alexandra on Sept 13, 2018 21:00:22 GMT
I read somewhere that (taking anything to do with sexual orientation out of it) it is not uncommon for FA people to stop having sex with someone once they feel really close, like it's too much to bear having a physical AND mental connection simultaneously. I suspect that might have happened to me. Happened to me, on the receiving end, with both FAs I've dated... and really with no one else. |
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 13, 2018 21:54:23 GMT
I read somewhere that (taking anything to do with sexual orientation out of it) it is not uncommon for FA people to stop having sex with someone once they feel really close, like it's too much to bear having a physical AND mental connection simultaneously. I suspect that might have happened to me. Happened to me, on the receiving end, with both FAs I've dated... and really with no one else. I'm so sorry. I have been on both ends. When I was the one who stopped being interested in sex, I had no idea what was going on and felt absolutely horrible doing that to my partner but I simply could not bear to do it anymore and could not shake the feeling. I don't know if it helps to know that it might be just as confusing and upsetting for the other person. I felt awful wondering and wondering what was wrong with me. I think for me it was triggered by feeling extremely vulnerable because of something happening in my life. This was back before I knew a thing about attachment theory. |
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Post by alexandra on Sept 13, 2018 22:26:59 GMT
happyidiot, it was awful for me for a long time because I got blamed and I was AP the first couple times it happened. They were confused about it and couldn't make sense of it so by process of elimination they blamed me. That was the worst for a long time. Then I learned about attachment theory and my most recent ex and I talked about how he was feeling a lot more extensively and I was able to understand and depersonalize it. However, he's in denial about attachment theory so knowing he was sad and confused wasn't helpful because he still pushed me away / kept breaking up with me and thought it meant I just wasn't "the one" instead of looking inward. I get it, but it still sucked.
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 17, 2018 20:33:45 GMT
When most people think about the qualities of the phantom ex they are not thinking of abuse of hair color, but things like mutual interests, playfulness, sexuality, intellect, passion, humor, physical attractiveness etc. Yes, I would say I am not in touch with my feelings, which is part of why I am DA. But I only mentioned abuse as it was mentioned by the OP Yeah, I was talking about how at least having higher and higher standards as I get older does some good, as it is preventing me from doing things like getting/staying involved in abusive situations, as I will not tolerate any whiff of that, which was not always the case when I was young. As far as phantom ex qualities that I look for in new potential partners, in the past it could have even been something as ridiculous as hair color. Not that I would have ruled out someone I liked over that, but that I would be more attracted to someone who resembled my ex. Nowadays it is things like epicgum listed. But sometimes they can be pretty specific, like I want someone with a similar sense of humor to me, which seems not very common. Or I miss how my ex was extremely observant about me, I haven't met anyone before or since who was like that. It made me feel cared about. Even half of that level would be nice. Or I would like to feel excited to have sex with someone and think they are beautiful when I look at them (I don't really care what they actually look like, this one is about how I feel about them). Another is that I want someone to fit in with my friends and who I feel proud of. Another is that I'd like them to share certain interests of mine. Just as a few examples. I don't expect someone to meet every item on my list, but I don't know how to determine whether the things I am looking for in a partner are reasonable/possible or not. Is it coming from an FA place for me to think, "What I am looking for is impossible, so I guess I'll either have to either settle for a relationship that never excites or fulfills me or give up on looking"? |
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 18, 2018 2:33:04 GMT
I don't think that comparing future partners against past ones is an FA thing. I developed crushes on actors who reminded me or resemble B...same thing with random guys...there is a guy at work who I have an infatuation on because he reminds me of B. The guy doesn't really look like B at all..but I have made a connection in my mind so every time I see that guy...it is the same feelings as if I was looking at B. It is extraordibnary how our brains work.
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Post by epicgum on Sept 18, 2018 3:11:37 GMT
I don't think that comparing future partners against past ones is an FA thing. I developed crushes on actors who reminded me or resemble B...same thing with random guys...there is a guy at work who I have an infatuation on because he reminds me of B. The guy doesn't really look like B at all..but I have made a connection in my mind so every time I see that guy...it is the same feelings as if I was looking at B. It is extraordibnary how our brains work. That is interesting tnr9, but do you think that you will still think of B's qualities once you are in a new relationship? The idea is that the phantom ex is a deactivating strategy that keeps the avoidant or FA in faultfinding mode and keeps them from committing too deeply to another partner. |
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 18, 2018 6:27:04 GMT
I don't think that comparing future partners against past ones is an FA thing. I developed crushes on actors who reminded me or resemble B...same thing with random guys...there is a guy at work who I have an infatuation on because he reminds me of B. The guy doesn't really look like B at all..but I have made a connection in my mind so every time I see that guy...it is the same feelings as if I was looking at B. It is extraordibnary how our brains work. That sounds sort of familiar. I've done that a bit too, been drawn to someone who reminds me of an ex. But in this case I'm talking more about finding everyone to fall short in comparison to an ex. Does it stop you from dating someone new? I only have two real life AP friends that I know of and they do usually seem to be able to move on and fixate on a new person who they've "never felt this way about before" pretty fast (if the person they're trying to move on from isn't acting too confusing and giving them hope) and are then usually telling the new person they love them within a week of starting dating. Your situation sounds a bit different than that, I can't recall if you've been trying to meet someone new or dating? |
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