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Post by happyidiot on Sept 19, 2018 20:53:40 GMT
happyidiot , even as an avoidant i relate to that dilemma. as i became more invested, i needed more reciprocity and consistency. (in order to not deactivate and become unhappy) i told my partner (wouldn't call him a partner at that point tho lol) that in order to be happiest with our involvement i needed responsiveness when he could do that for me. I understand being unable to respond because of other things going on, but needed him to know that reciprocity is important to me, in order for me to feel secure enough to continue our involvement. the problem for me as dismissive avoidant is that if i don't feel secure in the mutual interest and reciprocated i go away and shit the door. i need consistency too! avoidants are also hurt by rejection. we are also insecure in relationship. I can relate to that too! If someone does not show enough interest I will just go into avoidant mode and deactivate, and (personally) I'll feel pretty ok. I feel safer if I'm feeling avoidant. The times I find toughest are when someone shows lot of interest–and it's a level I like and want from someone I want it from–but is then inconsistent about it (or very suddenly pulls away); that gets me into AP mode. It's funny, FA is often described as being afraid of love and deactivating when they get love, but there's much more to it than that, which is one of the reasons it took me a while to realize I was FA. I need more reciprocity and consistency as time goes on both in order to not deactivate OR to not go into an AP mode, depending on the situation. For me, I think most often I need it in order to not deactivate when I'm not super invested yet, and in order to not turn AP if am already quite invested. I like what you said about how in order to be happiest with your involvement you need responsiveness when he can do that, and so on. I guess my concern is that it isn't as specific as I'd like, although I guess it opens the door for someone to ask what that would look like to you? Also when is a good time to bring something like this up? When you feel it's been lacking, or in advance of that? I don't know what I need, and I know that I can be bad about responsiveness to texts etc myself, either from an avoidant place (or when it's early on and I actually don't care too much about replying quickly as I'm not invested at all and am focussed on other things in my life) or from an AP place (if I'm trying not to reply to every text immediately because I'm feeling AP at the time and don't want to scare someone off by acting overly eager or demanding too much of their time).
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Post by epicgum on Sept 19, 2018 20:54:57 GMT
I guess part of my journey and even having some ability to get into a relationship was tied to "expecting" or "relying on the idea that my partner would not do certain things. I came to t he expectation that my partner would not publicly humiliate me, that they would be honest and not denigrate me. I thought this was a necessary step for me to be more trusting and bring down the walls. I totally agree, a partner should not have to be a mind reader, but am stuck on the notion that some behaviors are a "given" . andy , I think it is a balance that I have more thinking to do about. I don't think my expectations are too high, but I also have to look within myself further. My guess is that I choose men that I know subconsciously will not meet these expectations, so further down my rabbit hole I can go. Not publicly humiliating you or denigrating you is an extremely reasonable expectation. Honestly is probably a little harder because it depends on your own security and self-esteem. But...he might not realize the impact of his words. In my experience, even a compliment can be twisted in someone elses mind.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2018 21:07:26 GMT
happyidiot, i developed a standard of "no hiding" as soon as i realized how much i wanted to participate in this relationship and have it be happy for both of us. Remember, i am speaking as a dismissive so my approach may not be the best for someone else. i have practiced taking my internal temperature as far as emotions and thoughts go. if i become uncomfortable i address it honestly with myself as quickly as possible. so i have taken a position of self-awareness and self-analysis. I find that if i get triggered by something and become unhappy, and it's in relation to something that i can ask my partner for help with, i try to do it at the first reasonable opportunity. this has meant enduring the difficulty of becoming emotionally vulnerable and admitting how much i care and am invested, how i do "need" him in an integral way, for my happiness and contentment. this is a big shift for a dismissive, who has been conditioned all her life to not need, especially to not need another person's participation and reciprocity for happiness. obviously, the task for an anxious person would be different. i just handle things as they arise. in the moment, day by day. i have the big boundaries that i have to have in place to even be involved... and the smaller needs for my emotional well being in a relationship become apparent as i go. it is totally contextual. but for me, the work is allowing g myself to have a preference or a need, honoring it, expressing it with sensitivity to my partners need. And, like you said. it opens the door for the conversation - that's the intimacy. the conversation that ensues. it's not like a chess game where i make this move, you make that move, all is strategy, one will win. it's a request for collaboration, it's a mutual agenda, it's cooperation.
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 19, 2018 21:13:21 GMT
I guess part of my journey and even having some ability to get into a relationship was tied to "expecting" or "relying on the idea that my partner would not do certain things. I came to the expectation that my partner would not publicly humiliate me, that they would be honest and not denigrate me. I thought this was a necessary step for me to be more trusting and bring down the walls. I totally agree, a partner should not have to be a mind reader, but am stuck on the notion that some behaviors are a "given" . andy , I think it is a balance that I have more thinking to do about. I don't think my expectations are too high, but I also have to look within myself further. My guess is that I choose men that I know subconsciously will not meet these expectations, so further down my rabbit hole I can go. @mary i fully agree that some lines of behavior are a "given" - and my posts are considering only the little i know and your statements that he is a good person who is typically nice and supportive. i don't know the extent of harmful behavior and of course would not encourage you to endure a pattern of abuse. i am not clear on what all has happened, so i have to underscore that. as to the question "should i have to ask someone not to be an asshole?" no- but if you aren't addressing it and continuing to stay available to it, there's the problem, that internal conflictedness. so, i know you are in the place of being unsure as to how to take the best care of you. i don't know the backstory or extent of the dynamic and certainly don't want to lead you astray! @mary I think that while yes, it's easy to get caught up in thinking, "I shouldn't have to ask for xyz thing, I want someone who does it on their own," so it's good to look at if we can communicate better and if we can give someone space to meet our needs, it's also ok if there are certain things that are deal-breakers. Like making a racist comment (if I am recalling that correctly from another thread)? It's a very reasonable expectation to have someone not do that. There's a difference between avoidant fault-finding and having boundaries about actual irreconcilable respect issues. Maybe the key is learning how to tell the difference? I have seen some of my avoidant friends appear to actively search for and inflate deal-breakers, and have wondered if I've done it myself, and I find it can be good to tell someone trusted exactly what happened and get an outside objective perspective. Sometimes the thing that the person thought was unforgivable and perceived in a certain way is not in fact something unfixable and is an excuse to deactivate, and sometimes it is something that is more of a legitimate objective reason to break up. It's tricky though, I've actually witnessed people who seem to be subconsciously looking for an excuse to deactivate change the story of the "unforgivable" thing their partner did each time they retell it to something worse and worse, in order to justify their feelings about it and reinforce and explain their deactivation. Memory is such an inaccurate thing, we often create stories to go with our feelings. I'm not implying this is what's going on with you at all, it's just something I've witnessed that I found interesting and this conversation made me think about it.
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andy
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Post by andy on Sept 19, 2018 21:16:32 GMT
Yes, I think we can fail to assume responsibility for what's ours AND also fail to recognize that our expectations of our partners are valid and that they have some responsibilities too. An immature thing I did was expect my partner to know my needs around things that I regarded as obvious (taking turns making plans, texting back within a day or two, not making scheduling errors and cancelling). I felt so frustrated, but I was really the one who sold myself short by not speaking up for myself early in the game. That responsibility was mine. It is kind of paradoxical that one reason I did not speak up was that I thought it was all on me to manage my feelings and stop feeling so deeply hurt. I wanted to control it all by myself and not ask her for anything. That's an area where I was assuming too much responsibility and not acknowledging that it was okay and natural that my feelings were being impacted by her behaviour and that I should expect a partner to assume some responsibility towards me. I know that these two thoughts I had don't really make sense together but that is the nature of attachment injury brain. It is such a balancing act figuring out where each person's responsibility should start and end, and I'm sure that looks quite different depending on attachment style and context. Focus on self-responsibility is excellent as long as it doesn't go so far as to assume that we should not be emotionally affected by others' behaviour or need them for anything or hold them to account. I know you weren't suggesting this at all, juniper . It sounds more like you're suggesting that we're responsible for communicating openly with them about what we do need from them rather than expecting them to mind-read and being critical of them when they don't. Totally agree on that. I relate to this so much. I have trouble figuring out what my needs are and articulating them. Like, if I feel better if someone texts me back in a certain amount of time, or alternates initiating plans, how do I even go about explaining that in a constructive way early on? People can't know what you want if you don't tell them, but how exactly do you tell them? I don't even know how to bring up these kinds of topics until it gets to the point where someone takes 3 days to reply to a text and I feel like, "Ok now I have to say something," and they are shocked that I would expect anything from them since I always seemed so chill and they say they don't want to feel obligated to respond to texts, in fact now they want to break up, or some other response that confirms my fears of abandonment. Part of the problem is that I honestly do not know what I want/need in terms of something like text response time, I just know what I don't want when it happens. It varies so much depending on context. I have done a lot of thinking about this. I think it is possible to open up a conversation about how you are feeling even if you are not totally sure yet what your bottom line is or to what extent your feelings can be resolved by working on yourself. It would be important to go in with curiosity about where the other person is coming from and recognition that your understanding of the situation is limited and filtered through your own lens based on your life experiences (this was one of the helpful points in the Beginning Anew book that ocarina recommended to me). Also, it would be important to show that you are taking ownership over your feelings and not accusing the other person of causing you to feel bad. Our feelings are inevitably impacted by others but not caused by them, exactly. Something like this: "Hey, there's something I've been meaning to check in with you about. I am curious about your perspective on it. I notice that sometimes you take a couple of days to respond to a text from me. That is different from the texting style I am used to, and when that happens I tend to feel stressed about why I haven't heard back from you and worried about whether everything is okay between us. That's the place I go to with it, but I don't know what it means to you." And then based on what they say, you might start to feel more clear about what you need from the situation. So then you could request something like, "Could we agree to text back within a day? This is something that makes me feel more relaxed and connected when I'm dating someone." I get that the two days example is outside of mainstream texting norms so easier to talk about. But it might still be possible to talk about smaller gaps in text communication that bother you, with a little more emphasis on, "This is my own style, I know others are different. What are your preferences around texting?" And if they are receptive and listen with empathy and don't shame you for your feelings, but explain that they just don't like to get distracted by their phone when they are at work or socializing or whatever, you might actually start to feel that the fast response isn't all that important to you.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2018 21:28:40 GMT
i am the master of looking for and inflating reasons to deactivate. sadly, this was compounded by years of a semi-dissociated state where i had an inadequate response to actual abuse, and didn't protect myself, because i was tuned out to the damage. so- it's been a bit of a pendulum swing, and i am becoming much more balanced and able to discern what is going on instead of projecting a lot of the past on to it. it's a very personal and individual road for each person in a relationship, to develop that discernment. and, like epicgum astutely noted, sometimes a compliment can even get distorted. not minimizong the racist stuff! not trying to minimize anything seriously harmful. i'm just recognizing that in my own relationship, we both behaved in ways that were defensive and hurtful until we made a resolution to stop, and mutually made effort to stop, and mutually stopped. we became loyal to each other and not just to ourselves, in our behaviors. the slips now are small and easily repaired, nothing like the things we would say to each other in the past when triggered. we don't even play-insult or diminish each other. that incident when my partner said i was an asshole when i pull away, was entirely correct. we don't throw such a word as asshole around lightly. lol. he used it to illustrate his point and stand up to me and i appreciate his candor. o have done the same and it was received the same way. the important part of all that is what he followed with: "it hurts my feelings." that's what i appreciate most - he told me about his hurt (that i unintentionally inflicted) so i could tend to it. i was in deactivation mode and trying to self protect and i hurt him. that's what i am trying to heal. he asked for my help. i asked for his. we had both hurt each other but refused to become enemies in that moment. that's all i am trying to convey, the idea that two broken people can in fact help each other if they are both sincere and honest.
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 19, 2018 21:43:14 GMT
happyidiot , i developed a standard of "no hiding" as soon as i realized how much i wanted to participate in this relationship and have it be happy for both of us. Remember, i am speaking as a dismissive so my approach may not be the best for someone else. i have practiced taking my internal temperature as far as emotions and thoughts go. if i become uncomfortable i address it honestly with myself as quickly as possible. so i have taken a position of self-awareness and self-analysis. I find that if i get triggered by something and become unhappy, and it's in relation to something that i can ask my partner for help with, i try to do it at the first reasonable opportunity. this has meant enduring the difficulty of becoming emotionally vulnerable and admitting how much i care and am invested, how i do "need" him in an integral way, for my happiness and contentment. this is a big shift for a dismissive, who has been conditioned all her life to not need, especially to not need another person's participation and reciprocity for happiness. obviously, the task for an anxious person would be different. i just handle things as they arise. in the moment, day by day. i have the big boundaries that i have to have in place to even be involved... and the smaller needs for my emotional well being in a relationship become apparent as i go. it is totally contextual. but for me, the work is allowing g myself to have a preference or a need, honoring it, expressing it with sensitivity to my partners need. And, like you said. it opens the door for the conversation - that's the intimacy. the conversation that ensues. it's not like a chess game where i make this move, you make that move, all is strategy, one will win. it's a request for collaboration, it's a mutual agenda, it's cooperation. I often find your approaches to resonate. I'm not sure if it's because I'm a weird Frankenstein of avoidant and AP, or if it's just because much of what you say is universally applicable. I suspect a lot of what you've found to work for you, like not hiding, developing better communication skills and recognizing needs that are not coming from a "need" to reinforce your avoidance (for someone AP just replace that reinforce their AP-ness), are just universally good goals. I've gotten bad advice from friends who are much more avoidant than me in the past, because their greatest challenge has been to not avoid everyone, and they've gotten better results in dating simply by making themselves initiate texts and dates more often and telling their partner they have feelings for them. Those kinds of suggestions have not been helpful when I'm in a more anxious mode (which is when I've historically been asking for more advice), it's like permission to chase and pressure. Only after learning about attachment theory did I understand why their advice felt wrong for my situation. I don't think that you sharing what works for you is like that, and of course on this forum we have the benefit of knowing about attachment theory and how we might have slightly different things we need to work on. For me, I think that I shouldn't need anything from anyone else, and then beat myself up if I do and second-guess whether or not I in fact do. It's taken me a lot of work even to learn to accept help from people when they offer it, but I've gotten way better at that.
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Post by happyidiot on Sept 20, 2018 0:01:43 GMT
In my opinion it’s essential to get to know yourself in every possible way before you dive into dating. If you're still disconnected from your own needs, it will be almost impossible to communicate what you're looking for in a partner and to set boundaries whenever you feel like you're not getting your needs met. This is what helped me the most: I made a realistic list of: 1. what I had to offer; 2. which red flags to look out for; 3. the most important things/qualities to look for in a partner. After that I made somewhat the same lists concerning my previous relationship and compared these lists: Is he really that great? Are we really that compatible? Is he really the person I'm looking for? Could we ever meet each others needs? Try to be completely honest with yourself and don't be afraid to admit that maybe you weren't that great together. Get to know yourself first and you will soon find out that it will be easier to get to know someone else, because you will have a clear view of the way you want to be treated. Also, I taught myself to think differently. Does it really matter that he leaves his socks on the floor? Do we really have to agree on everything? If he's sweet and treats me with love and respect; does it really matter that his hair color isn't brown or that he doesn't have a car? Ofcourse physical attraction is important, but don't forget to find attraction in the way someone treats you as well. Most things I encountered in my previous relationship were immediate turnoffs since I made these lists, because I didn't want to go through that ever again. I really hope this helps! Best of luck! Your list idea is helpful! At least I have already gotten so much better at not getting involved when there are red flags, and I seem to be harnessing my avoidant side in that I actually feel deactivated when there is something obvious that tells me the person would not be suitable for a lasting relationship, which I think is fine (as long as it's a real reason). In the past I used to be drawn to obvious unavailability. Is that sort of what you meant? I guess I am still stuck, because I do still think my phantom ex and I were pretty great together until the sudden end and could've been more great together with just a bit more time and even marginally better communication. He treated me wonderfully and wanted to make me happy, and that was one of the reasons I became more attracted and got invested and attached. I was so excited to be falling for someone who I thought was a healthy choice. No, he wasn't everything I'm looking for, but I don't think the person I'm looking for exists. Do you think you shy away from looking for someone to date due to low self-esteem, or fear of choosing another unavailable man and getting hurt again? It is the second really....my "picker" is broken. It's ok....I have a cat who is silly and a lot of great female friends. The whole experience with B has shown a light into the darkness of my unresolved issues and until I can address those..I can't really be a good partner because I will want him to fix what he cannot fix and to fill what he can never fill. I know that I am capabable of a sustained relationship...I have had that before...but what I have not had is a relationship that was built upon a solid friendship where we were able to be honest with each other without it feeling so scary and so personal. I am ok with being single....I think in this space,what I want to work on is being "comfortable" with doing things as a single woman...going out...enjoying the things I would most want a partner for...just so I can release the "you take care of me" transactional kind of relationship. I don't want that anymore...although I still act as if I do...because transactional equals jealousy and bitterness and entitlement and treats a person as a possession versus a person. Your little cat who seems FA? How is he/she doing? I think you're making so much great progress. I'm trying to date myself as well, by doing the things I'd like to do with a partner on my own. I cannot get motivated either. Even with a spark, I will shy away from a relationship. I have friends and I am good being alone. This may sound crazy, but the main draw of a relationship for me is sex. Sure, I can have sex without a relationship, but there is always an expiration date on that and at some point, the "talk" will erupt. It's only through more awareness that these questions come to my mind. Do I just go from one short "relationship" to the next or what? I think that juniper has a good answer to try and work it with someone who is also willing to put in the work, but even getting to the point where 2 people are willing is so difficult. That is the ongoing theme of this forum. One is willing, one is not. There have been too many hurts done when it even gets to that point. I know now that the spark is unhealthy for me. The "rollercoaster" may be part of the draw. I haven't really put all the pieces together yet. At times, I am tempted to keep riding the rollercoaster with my ex. This is not something I have thought of doing in the past. Once done, I'm done. What does that mean if anything? Too many questions and not enough answers. I guess the answer for me is no, I cannot give up the spark, so more than likely, I will once again pick a wrong partner. That doesn't sound crazy. Sex is one of the main draws for a relationship for me too. Like we said, we have friends and are fine alone, so companionship are support aren't really draws by themselves. Are you able to separate sexual and romantic feelings? From this forum I think I've learned some good healthy ways to determine faster if someone is in at least a close place to me in terms of ability/willingness to put in the work. I hope I get a chance to put them into practice by meeting someone that interests me enough to try. Maybe the idea of there being "right" or "wrong" partners is flawed, like what even makes someone a wrong partner? Were they wrong if you don't stay together for a certain length of time? Were they wrong if they hurt you?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2018 1:47:06 GMT
happyidiot, @mary sex is a big draw for me also, but the thing is, sexual organs are connected to whole persons, and persons are complex and... personal. unless an 'only or primarily sexual' relationship is clearly defined and agreed to by both parties (i think this is rare!) there will be emotional liabilities that have to be considered, of course. but, i seriously question anyone who says they have a strictly sexual interest in a relationship and carries it on for any length of time. humans tend to desire companionship, to be understood and valued, to be appreciated, beyond their sexual pleasure. this is the human condition. if no-obligation sex is desired by both parties, great. but when , really, is this ever the case in an ongoing involvement? i say this, having begun the relationship i am in now as a sexual encounter. as i uncovered myself i came to see that being "fine" without all the other stuff that spells intimacy and connection was a misunderstanding of my true self and what i really want and need, but have been conditioned to avoid. i find that my experience, coming to understand that i desire far more than sex, and i desire a partner who can build with me, is not a unique experience.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2018 13:22:44 GMT
@mary i fully agree that some lines of behavior are a "given" - and my posts are considering only the little i know and your statements that he is a good person who is typically nice and supportive. i don't know the extent of harmful behavior and of course would not encourage you to endure a pattern of abuse. i am not clear on what all has happened, so i have to underscore that. as to the question "should i have to ask someone not to be an asshole?" no- but if you aren't addressing it and continuing to stay available to it, there's the problem, that internal conflictedness. so, i know you are in the place of being unsure as to how to take the best care of you. i don't know the backstory or extent of the dynamic and certainly don't want to lead you astray! @mary I think that while yes, it's easy to get caught up in thinking, "I shouldn't have to ask for xyz thing, I want someone who does it on their own," so it's good to look at if we can communicate better and if we can give someone space to meet our needs, it's also ok if there are certain things that are deal-breakers. Like making a racist comment (if I am recalling that correctly from another thread)? It's a very reasonable expectation to have someone not do that. There's a difference between avoidant fault-finding and having boundaries about actual irreconcilable respect iss Maybe the key is learning how to tell the difference? I have seen some of my avoidant friends appear to actively search for and inflate deal-breakers, and have wondered if I've done it myself, and I find it can be good to tell someone trusted exactly what happened and get an outside objective perspective. Sometimes the thing that the person thought was unforgivable and perceived in a certain way is not in fact something unfixable and is an excuse to deactivate, and sometimes it is something that is more of a legitimate objective reason to break up. It's tricky though, I've actually witnessed people who seem to be subconsciously looking for an excuse to deactivate change the story of the "unforgivable" thing their partner did each time they retell it to something worse and worse, in order to justify their feelings about it and reinforce and explain their deactivation. Memory is such an inaccurate thing, we often create stories to go with our feelings. I'm not implying this is what's going on with you at all, it's just something I've witnessed that I found interesting and this conversation made me think about it. Exactly! When I was younger, everything was a deal breaker and I didn't think twice about it. I never questioned my decisions about this and it seemed so clear to me. Being more aware now, I question those decisions. I don't know the difference because I am so used to rejecting everyone for every reason. So I have come to a place where I do ask for advice about this, but my friends are mostly AP and find reasons for me to stay. I appreciate the opposite perspective, but seems to make it more confusing for me. They think everything is fixable. I don't clearly know if I am just running away or if it's a real deal breaker. It sounds strange perhaps, but I always say I don't have an emotional guide. For me, It's not that my feelings were hurt, it was a matter of disrespect. I have to go on logic and as we know, it's not a helpful guide in some situations. I think the decision would be easier if I had a strong feeling about it?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2018 13:52:50 GMT
I cannot get motivated either. Even with a spark, I will shy away from a relationship. I have friends and I am good being alone. This may sound crazy, but the main draw of a relationship for me is sex. Sure, I can have sex without a relationship, but there is always an expiration date on that and at some point, the "talk" will erupt. It's only through more awareness that these questions come to my mind. Do I just go from one short "relationship" to the next or what? I think that juniper has a good answer to try and work it with someone who is also willing to put in the work, but even getting to the point where 2 people are willing is so difficult. That is the ongoing theme of this forum. One is willing, one is not. There have been too many hurts done when it even gets to that point. I know now that the spark is unhealthy for me. The "rollercoaster" may be part of the draw. I haven't really put all the pieces together yet. At times, I am tempted to keep riding the rollercoaster with my ex. This is not something I have thought of doing in the past. Once done, I'm done. What does that mean if anything? Too many questions and not enough answers. I guess the answer for me is no, I cannot give up the spark, so more than likely, I will once again pick a wrong partner. That doesn't sound crazy. Sex is one of the main draws for a relationship for me too. Like we said, we have friends and are fine alone, so companionship are support aren't really draws by themselves. Are you able to separate sexual and romantic feelings? From this forum I think I've learned some good healthy ways to determine faster if someone is in at least a close place to me in terms of ability/willingness to put in the work. I hope I get a chance to put them into practice by meeting someone that interests me enough to try. Maybe the idea of there being "right" or "wrong" partners is flawed, like what even makes someone a wrong partner? Were they wrong if you don't stay together for a certain length of time? Were they wrong if they hurt you? I can separate sex and feelings unless there is a strong connection which has happened once in my life. I think my willingness to try to work things out though has been largely a result of my awareness of attachment issues . I have no idea what a wrong or right partner is. I guess it's if the pros outweigh the cons? I don't think they are wrong if they hurt you but it probably depends on each persons threshold if you stay together despite the hurt. I don't think I look at it is a right or wrong partner. It's more in terms of how much of their behavior I can take before I say it' s enough.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2018 14:00:01 GMT
happyidiot , @mary sex is a big draw for me also, but the thing is, sexual organs are connected to whole persons, and persons are complex and... personal. unless an 'only or primarily sexual' relationship is clearly defined and agreed to by both parties (i think this is rare!) there will be emotional liabilities that have to be considered, of course. but, i seriously question anyone who says they have a strictly sexual interest in a relationship and carries it on for any length of time. humans tend to desire companionship, to be understood and valued, to be appreciated, beyond their sexual pleasure. this is the human condition. if no-obligation sex is desired by both parties, great. but when , really, is this ever the case in an ongoing involvement? i say this, having begun the relationship i am in now as a sexual encounter. as i uncovered myself i came to see that being "fine" without all the other stuff that spells intimacy and connection was a misunderstanding of my true self and what i really want and need, but have been conditioned to avoid. i find that my experience, coming to understand that i desire far more than sex, and i desire a partner who can build with me, is not a unique experience. Perhaps for the most part this is the case, I don't know. I have had strictly sexual "relationships" for years that worked out well for me. Perhaps now, it would be different,I am not sure. I do desire companionship, it just doesn't have to be with the person I am having sex with. I realize that it's because my feelings are not consciously present a lot of the time, so I am sure the more present I become, the less this will be an option.
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andy
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Post by andy on Sept 20, 2018 15:51:35 GMT
For me, I think that I shouldn't need anything from anyone else, and then beat myself up if I do and second-guess whether or not I in fact do. It's taken me a lot of work even to learn to accept help from people when they offer it, but I've gotten way better at that. I don't know whether this is at all relevant to what you're talking about, happyidiot, but a thought I've had recently that has helped me is this: Intimacy and authenticity are about connecting with another person in the present moment as you are now, not about figuring out what the idealized future version of yourself might be like and only sharing what you imagine would be the feelings and needs of that other version of you. Especially because none of us is likely ever to become exactly the person we imagine we should be. Does that take some of the intensity out of the should/shouldn't questioning regarding feelings and the sharing of them? I think the intensity of our feelings can often settle down when we stop regarding them as unacceptable. When we are engaged in a constant battle with ourselves about whether we are allowed to want or need something, the wants and needs can feel really overwhelming. It kind of reminds me of dynamics around food. When you make some food forbidden in your mind and shame yourself for wanting it or eating it, that food will often be incredibly magnetic, irresistible, and you might feel out of control around it and get pulled into a negative relationship with it. But when you tell yourself that all foods are allowed and you can eat whatever you want without guilt or shame, then you might eventually find that you only want to eat moderate amounts of the foods that used to be forbidden and feel at peace around them. This is the philosophy behind intuitive eating. Food is another kind of fundamental human need/want, and there is often a lot of culturally reinforced shame around it. So while the comparison between relationship needs/feelings and food may seem like a stretch, I think there are some dynamics in common here.
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Post by goldilocks on Sept 20, 2018 17:16:23 GMT
Exactly! When I was younger, everything was a deal breaker and I didn't think twice about it. I never questioned my decisions about this and it seemed so clear to me. Being more aware now, I question those decisions. I don't know the difference because I am so used to rejecting everyone for every reason. So I have come to a place where I do ask for advice about this, but my friends are mostly AP and find reasons for me to stay. I appreciate the opposite perspective, but seems to make it more confusing for me. They think everything is fixable. I don't clearly know if I am just running away or if it's a real deal breaker. It sounds strange perhaps, but I always say I don't have an emotional guide. For me, It's not that my feelings were hurt, it was a matter of disrespect. I have to go on logic and as we know, it's not a helpful guide in some situations. I think the decision would be easier if I had a strong feeling about it? I have no idea what a wrong or right partner is. I guess it's if the pros outweigh the cons? I don't think they are wrong if they hurt you but it probably depends on each persons threshold if you stay together despite the hurt. I don't think I look at it is a right or wrong partner. It's more in terms of how much of their behavior I can take before I say it' s enough.
To be honest, I think insecurely attached people in general have issues telling the right from the wrong partners. Not trusting our intuition, we can mistrust allmost all of them if we are avoidant, or trust allmost all of them if we are anxious.
The key is to have grounded trust, based on observations of behavious and feeling we know the character so we can exercise generosity of spirit.
With the guy I like, I mistrusted him so badly the first time around and had all sorts of idiotic scenarios to deactivate myself with. Knowing him a bit bether now it is easier to set those aside and trust a bit more. I also felt my body open up to him on an energetic level. This was very new to me, and may be what secures actually feel when they like someone.
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 21, 2018 18:37:04 GMT
Off topic..but since it as asked... happyidiot....my cat is still FA....he will follow me around like a dog, but if I say no to him for any reason...he will pounce on my ankles. He also started chewing on electrical cords...so had to put him in time out several times yesterday....but I still love him.
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