|
|
Post by tnr9 on Jun 2, 2018 18:08:36 GMT
I have made the mistake of labeling individuals as DA based on a very short timeframe and without considering other factors that may play a role in perceived Distancing behaviors. I think it is very important to not generalize or mislabel someone when they have not taken the test themself. I also agree that the DAs that post here are extremely aware and respectful and have really helped me to understand their needs and boundaries.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2018 19:43:27 GMT
its also probably helpful remember that in an anxious/avoidant relationship , the dismissive is distancing in reaction to toxic AP behavior, it's a two part dynamic. this article from Jeb's website warns about AP behavior having such an impact it can drive a partner completely away. it's always good to balance a discussion like this, when it arises, i think. Just keeping it real. jebkinnison.com/bad-boyfriends-the-book/type-anxious-preoccupied/ |
|
|
|
Post by goldilocks on Jun 2, 2018 20:40:16 GMT
This would certainly drive me away!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2018 20:44:32 GMT
This would certainly drive me away! not my cup of tea either lol |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on Jun 2, 2018 22:48:19 GMT
its also probably helpful remember that in an anxious/avoidant relationship , the dismissive is distancing in reaction to toxic AP behavior, it's a two part dynamic. this article from Jeb's website warns about AP behavior having such an impact it can drive a partner completely away. it's always good to balance a discussion like this, when it arises, i think. Just keeping it real. jebkinnison.com/bad-boyfriends-the-book/type-anxious-preoccupied/I appreciate keeping it real and balanced. I don't think it is so clear cut that every time a distancer distances, it is a direct result of the anxious partner. I do however agree that the tactics that are often employed to protest and seek validation by a triggered anxious partner create the exact opposite effect (it does not respect boundaries or autonomy needs). I also think that it is too easy to blame a DA by an AP instead of sharing the load for why a relationship did not work out. I think as an AP, I gain no insight if I do not look at the ways I crossed boundaries, did not respect the other person as separate and autonomous or dealt with my need for validation (which stems from my past and not my partner). Both individuals must be willing to examine what role they played. Obviously there is a reason why a secure partner is the preferred partner for all types. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2018 23:16:42 GMT
talking about a dynamic, the general acknowledged dynamic.
if it needs to be blow by blow clear cut, nothing will make sense.
the dynamic over time is significant.
say Ap acts out toxically one time, but not the next.
but the second time, avoidant is going to prepare for the worst.
of course the same could be true in reverse.
nothing in relationships is clear cut. dynamics develop over time with dual input. parsing out individual interactions gets a lot of people stuck it seems, instead of looking at the big picture and their part in it.
|
|
|
|
Post by goldilocks on Jun 3, 2018 7:45:17 GMT
Both of you are making good points. It is like a dance, and one person has trigger point in his back and the other an infected foot. So when the turn is too sharp and the back hurts, a jerky move is made an the infected foot is stepped on, which hurts like a mofo.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2018 13:20:42 GMT
Both of you are making good points. It is like a dance, and one person has trigger point in his back and the other an infected foot. So when the turn is too sharp and the back hurts, a jerky move is made an the infected foot is stepped on, which hurts like a mofo. wouldn't that be nice if everyone could keep that in mind? 😂 maybe we all need a gif of our own twitchy dance for our avatars as a reminder when we post. goldilocks. we have the trigger points in our back, that works. lol! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2018 13:21:03 GMT
Both of you are making good points. It is like a dance, and one person has trigger point in his back and the other an infected foot. So when the turn is too sharp and the back hurts, a jerky move is made an the infected foot is stepped on, which hurts like a mofo. wouldn't that be nice if everyone could keep that in mind? 😂 maybe we all need a gif of our own twitchy dance for our avatars as a reminder when we post. goldilocks. we have the trigger points in our back, that works. lol! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2018 16:10:21 GMT
its also probably helpful remember that in an anxious/avoidant relationship , the dismissive is distancing in reaction to toxic AP behavior, it's a two part dynamic. this article from Jeb's website warns about AP behavior having such an impact it can drive a partner completely away. it's always good to balance a discussion like this, when it arises, i think. Just keeping it real. jebkinnison.com/bad-boyfriends-the-book/type-anxious-preoccupied/Thanks for reminding about the other dysfunctional side.
My own observation/experience is that NPD comes in two forms, overt and covert. The overt form appears to express certain DA traits while the covert form expresses AP traits. A pwNPD is basically insecure due to DNA/childhood trauma, unable to see outside of self, a huge emptiness within which drives him or her to look for external sources of Supply to fill, with a carefully constructed false self. It is extremely shattering for a pwNPD to look inside because of an illogical fear that there is this void.
A DA is someone who has a strong sense of Self with impermeable boundaries, which he or she builds because of a history of having boundaries disrespected and busted. Instead of encroaching on or demanding from others, a DA would rather shut away, rely on self instead of others, and stay far away from the perceived boundaries of others in the mistaken belief that others share the same level of independence and boundaries as them.
An overt pwNPD would demand Supply from others, both positive (love, admiration, obedience, praise, validation, etc.) and negative (emotional pain inflicted by devaluation, silent treatment, distancing, neglect), and the efforts to extract negative supply looks like extreme DA traits.
A covert pwNPD would likewise demand Supply from others in form of love, devotion, attention, assurance, praise, validation, and if denied, will manipulate, dissemble, use passive aggressive methods like guilt, shame and blame for any attention, and could look very much like an extreme AP.
The primary problem for a pwNPD is that huge insatiable void within which he or she looks to fill, which vacuums up the emotional energy of those close to them, so people are literally drained by them. It is also this void that drives the pwNPD to violate the boundaries of others. The violation of boundaries is not to be confused with the genuine connection offered by a Secure, as it serves a one-way purpose - to fulfill the needs of the pwNPD for Supply. It results in a vicious cycle.
In fact, there isn't a void, there is a Self, like everyone, the void is an illusion from childhood trauma, being erroneously told that they amount to "nothing" and therapy could help the pwNPD to rebuild it.
The solution for a DA is learning to open up to others, to engage in interaction, to be open to genuine connection, to allow more porous boundaries by trusting others, whereas for a pwNPD it is to fill the void within by oneself, to heal the inner self through therapy, so there is no longer a need to endlessly seek or demand Supply from others, leading to a dysfunctional dynamic in a relationship. With an intact Self, one is able to engage in true relationships of sharing.
This is my impression of pwNPD and DA, would love to hear from other DAs.
|
|
|
|
Post by ocarina on Jun 3, 2018 16:20:47 GMT
That is interesting Curious - I don't think I am qualified to comment on NPD however I have experienced the extreme hoovering up of emotional energy in my last relationship.
I used to feel as though I had been in the company of a Dementor (anyone who isn't into Harry Potter these are beasts that feed on human happiness, they suck out positive emotions and have access to all your past trauma making them even more destructive). This was despite the fact that he was not overtly abusive - just neglectful and distant.
I tend to be optimistic and to put in simply, joyful - he was incredibly passive and without external emotion.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2018 16:28:04 GMT
That is interesting Curious - I don't think I am qualified to comment on NPD however I have experienced the extreme hoovering up of emotional energy in my last relationship. I used to feel as though I had been in the company of a Dementor (anyone who isn't into Harry Potter these are beasts that feed on human happiness, they suck out positive emotions and have access to all your past trauma making them even more destructive). This was despite the fact that he was not overtly abusive - just neglectful and distant. I tend to be optimistic and to put in simply, joyful - he was incredibly passive and without external emotion. The mother of my exNPD is a pwNPD that is more like a Dementor too, there is a description of this type as The Incredible Sulk.  Also Stillface. They can be mistaken for DAs.
A good way to tell if you are dealing with a Cluster B is the "draining" aspect of the relationship. There is a psychologist, Elinor Greenberg, who describes this as "high splash" or "low splash" types. She observes at a pool that the top athletes swim steadily, expertly, quietly, seldom splashing others because they are good at what they do, but the kids and immature swimmers constantly splash others because they are poor at swimming and they are careless about the feelings of others. They are only focused on themselves, oblivious to their impact on others. This is her analogy about people living their lives. The steady ones don't splash others, but the dysfunctional ones do, frequently.
The Incredible Sulk is a NPD behavior, not a DA behavior because it is designed to have an impact on others.
I believe DAs try their best not to splash others, and do not like to be splashed by others, so they shut away or have a strong sense of boundaries, but they are under a delusion too, because this fear doesn't make them an expert swimmer either.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2018 16:56:36 GMT
my perspective is,
that if an individual concentrates on themselves and why they participated in something draining and what to do about it, the guesswork about the other party becomes very unimportant, and they liberate themselves by focusing on their own internal obstructions.
a healthy person will pull the plug before getting drained.
it's only my perspective, that that is all i need to know.
where did i go wrong, where did i let myself down.
did the asshole BPD AP let me down or did i?
i made it possible.
i made it possible. that's what i will work on.
i don't even feel a need to explain my process any more , i just like to share with people who don't even need an explanation, who haven't made guesses and assumptions about it.
otherwise, not much to say, except remind people to look in the mirror, that's what i feel compelled to comment on so i do.
we all have a different contribution, and level of interest.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2018 17:15:59 GMT
Not everyone can pull the plug from a draining experience though - children of NPD parents, for example, or spouses, siblings, family, etc.
And many don't know that they are slowly draining or being drained, due to lack of awareness.
I wish I didn't become "aware" of NPD, that's for sure, as it is a kind of bliss not to have experienced any of it (or other Cluster Bs).
|
|
|
|
Post by ocarina on Jun 3, 2018 17:23:34 GMT
my perspective is, that if an individual concentrates on themselves and why they participated in something draining and what to do about it, the guesswork about the other party becomes very unimportant, and they liberate themselves by focusing on their own internal obstructions. a healthy person will pull the plug before getting drained. it's only my perspective, that that is all i need to know. where did i go wrong, where did i let myself down. did the asshole BPD AP let me down or did i? i made it possible. i made it possible. that's what i will work on. i don't even feel a need to explain my process any more , i just like to share with people who don't even need an explanation, who haven't made guesses and assumptions about it. otherwise, not much to say, except remind people to look in the mirror, that's what i feel compelled to comment on so i do. we all have a different contribution, and level of interest. Yes absolutely that is the route to healing - sadly if it was that easy there wouldn't be a thriving board here....looking in the mirror with kindness and compassion is what's needed - but as Curious said, for those who've been abused as children or had a history that makes tolerating this kind of behaviour seem normal, it's not so easy. Simple but not easy if that makes sense. Sometimes so painful that without professional support - or even with, it's too difficult to go there. I also think that many of these relationships start well and the process of decay is so subtle as to be almost imperceptible - and by the time you're at rock bottom you're so bruised and battered that it's hard to find the energy to climb back up. |
|
Also Stillface. They can be mistaken for DAs.