|
|
Post by faithopelove on Jan 20, 2019 1:25:32 GMT
Advice: How do you communicate gently to a DA that’s its hard for me when he suddenly drops off? This question was prompted bc today I asked if he wanted to go out and do something and he replied- sorry can’t tonight. I asked if he was good and he didn’t respond. We’re coming off a great night Thursday.
Should I text and tell him it’s hard for me when he drops off and could he instead tell me he needs space so we can connect better? (I could wait while we’re in person to say this, but that’s when things are going well.)
Every time we see each other he pulls back for 3-4 days and I want to communicate my needs but I want to do it gently without sounding critical and harsh. He’s sensitive to perceived or real criticism...as an aware AP, I’m trying not to jump the gun and be unreasonably needy. Any thoughts?? TIA!
|
|
|
|
Post by 8675309 on Jan 20, 2019 2:16:59 GMT
Personally for me I wait till in person, I cant stand trying to talk about needs/feelings via text. I dont feel you can have real talk through text. It also makes it 'easy' for them to avoid and blow you off as well just leaving you hanging... You know Im dont walk on eggshells, I just tell it in a clam non attacking manner and let the chips fall. Dont be 'gentle', be healthy in communication, your needs are valid. Expressing your healthy needs makes him run and shut down, thats on him. It sucks when they do but dont hold back and own it no matter what happens. Its also one of those things, no matter how healthy we try to communicate they could easily feel we are critical/harsh but thats their issue, we cant baby them sacrificing ourselves, they are grown adults. Like my guy we had a great open talk about attachment and needs. I know he was really opened up for him. It was relaxed and nice but he still ran. Its not my problem, we had a nice healthy clam relaxed talk. The chips fell.
By the way hes back already.
|
|
|
|
Post by faithopelove on Jan 20, 2019 2:38:57 GMT
Personally for me I wait till in person, I cant stand trying to talk about needs/feelings via text. I dont feel you can have real talk through text. It also makes it 'easy' for them to avoid and blow you off as well just leaving you hanging... You know Im dont walk on eggshells, I just tell it in a clam non attacking manner and let the chips fall. Dont be 'gentle', be healthy in communication, your needs are valid. Expressing your healthy needs makes him run and shut down, thats on him. It sucks when they do but dont hold back and own it no matter what happens. Its also one of those things, no matter how healthy we try to communicate they could easily feel we are critical/harsh but thats their issue, we cant baby them sacrificing ourselves, they are grown adults. Like my guy we had a great open talk about attachment and needs. I know he was really opened up for him. It was relaxed and nice but he still ran. Its not my problem, we had a nice healthy clam relaxed talk. The chips fell.
By the way hes back already.
Oh, boy...I thought he’d be back bc it was kind of left hanging? Nothing seemed final to me in that. A psychologist had told me to give a DA 10 days of space after a meet up but in the past I’ve found my guy to be subtly resentful and distant after a 10 day pull back. His place of comfort seems to be space 3-4 days after contact. I actually already texted my DA bc even though, I agree, it’s better in person, I didn’t want to wait. When I do that, I tend to let it go bc things are good on that particular day. I just texted it’s hard for me when he doesn’t respond and could he instead tell me he needs space or whatever...I said I’m trying to help us connect better. He respond in a few minutes that he was sorry, needed some alone time bc he was dealing w his issues and I shouldn’t take it personally. So I said thanks for telling me, I’ll be quiet a few days but I care and I’ll be thinking of him. I thought it was good he put into words that he needed to be alone- I’m always encouraging him to express his needs bc he believes no one cares about his needs and he’s on his own. So, this shows I can respond to his needs if he communicates them and I also communicated how I felt and he answered...and if he wants to explore these issues, that opens the door to refer him to an attachment page. |
|
|
|
Post by 8675309 on Jan 20, 2019 10:57:15 GMT
I told mine too, just tell me if you need time dont not respond to me and blow me off, I'll give you the space you need. He can just say Im having one of my moments, in my feels or when ever he needs to say because he may not understand what hes feeling just to let me know and I'll leave him be. If there is one thing he does know is I back off, I have been that way from the beginning even before understanding attachment/him. You dont chase what wants to run.
We saw each other and talked a bit more. He was pretty open again and we had a great time. I told him Im not going to reach out for a few days and give him his space because every time we have seen each other two weeks in a row he runs. Said I dont know if you start to feel engulfed, too much anxiety, etc but whatever it is you run. I want you to feel safe and breath.
If I give you space to 'breath' maybe you wont feel like you have to run, I can meet your need for space so you can stay more consistent with communication/move to seeing each other once a week which will meet my needs right now. Baby steps.
Told him Id reach out today and I will.(he reached out yesterday asking a question, I just answered the question and went on with letting him be) I'll see how it goes. I know he needs actual therapy but there has certainly been some progression between us in communications. I dont mention therapy much right now because he needs to get there on his own but Im completely open and vulnerable with him so he can see its ok. Like that James Arthur song, Im standing there naked.
I just take it one day at a time, I dont take it personal anymore and he does not make me anxious anymore either, Im back in my secure state. Even if the only thing that comes of it is he can see the possibility and see what some healthy behaviors are and we never go anywhere its ok. I know the reality of him and I will end it. I'll just stay 'friends' with him. We are into the same hobby things/have some mutual acquaintance hobby friends so we will run into each other eventually, I dont want him to be an anxiety ball when he runs into me. haha. We can be cool with each other.
10 days is a lot but that might be the case for some dAs. I know mine needs a day or two after we see each other, he doesnt even realize it but I do.
|
|
|
|
Post by ocarina on Jan 20, 2019 14:36:15 GMT
Personally for me I wait till in person, I cant stand trying to talk about needs/feelings via text. I dont feel you can have real talk through text. It also makes it 'easy' for them to avoid and blow you off as well just leaving you hanging... You know Im dont walk on eggshells, I just tell it in a clam non attacking manner and let the chips fall. Dont be 'gentle', be healthy in communication, your needs are valid. Expressing your healthy needs makes him run and shut down, thats on him. It sucks when they do but dont hold back and own it no matter what happens. Its also one of those things, no matter how healthy we try to communicate they could easily feel we are critical/harsh but thats their issue, we cant baby them sacrificing ourselves, they are grown adults. Like my guy we had a great open talk about attachment and needs. I know he was really opened up for him. It was relaxed and nice but he still ran. Its not my problem, we had a nice healthy clam relaxed talk. The chips fell.
By the way hes back already.
Really good advice - don't pretzel yourself trying to the right thing to keep your partner happy - communicate openly and honestly and NOT from an agenda to help you get what you need. That which sometimes masquerades as loving communication often comes from a place of subtle manipulation. Act in a way that's caring towards him but also to yourself, really listen and don't be frightened to express your own needs. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2019 15:25:52 GMT
Personally for me I wait till in person, I cant stand trying to talk about needs/feelings via text. I dont feel you can have real talk through text. It also makes it 'easy' for them to avoid and blow you off as well just leaving you hanging... You know Im dont walk on eggshells, I just tell it in a clam non attacking manner and let the chips fall. Dont be 'gentle', be healthy in communication, your needs are valid. Expressing your healthy needs makes him run and shut down, thats on him. It sucks when they do but dont hold back and own it no matter what happens. Its also one of those things, no matter how healthy we try to communicate they could easily feel we are critical/harsh but thats their issue, we cant baby them sacrificing ourselves, they are grown adults. Like my guy we had a great open talk about attachment and needs. I know he was really opened up for him. It was relaxed and nice but he still ran. Its not my problem, we had a nice healthy clam relaxed talk. The chips fell.
By the way hes back already.
Oh, boy...I thought he’d be back bc it was kind of left hanging? Nothing seemed final to me in that. A psychologist had told me to give a DA 10 days of space after a meet up but in the past I’ve found my guy to be subtly resentful and distant after a 10 day pull back. His place of comfort seems to be space 3-4 days after contact. I actually already texted my DA bc even though, I agree, it’s better in person, I didn’t want to wait. When I do that, I tend to let it go bc things are good on that particular day. I just texted it’s hard for me when he doesn’t respond and could he instead tell me he needs space or whatever...I said I’m trying to help us connect better. He respond in a few minutes that he was sorry, needed some alone time bc he was dealing w his issues and I shouldn’t take it personally. So I said thanks for telling me, I’ll be quiet a few days but I care and I’ll be thinking of him. I thought it was good he put into words that he needed to be alone- I’m always encouraging him to express his needs bc he believes no one cares about his needs and he’s on his own. So, this shows I can respond to his needs if he communicates them and I also communicated how I felt and he answered...and if he wants to explore these issues, that opens the door to refer him to an attachment page. This really sounds like you have a motivation to fix him or steer him in a direction toward attachment security, relationship availability , or to what you thought you had in the beginning. It went from seeking a satisfactory end to a text conversation to trying to open the door to attachment- that's a big leap. Intoducing him to attachment theory and showing him how you can be a good partner in addressing his issues may seem to be altruistic intentions, but there would also clearly be a benefit to you- meeting your needs and allowing you to enjoy the relationship he has said he isn't available for. (Or has he clearly said he is available for a relationship? I may be confused) People, especially DA's, tend to embark on the deep and hard journey of addressing attachment injuries when they are ready, as I'm sure you know. It's not bad to hope he'll get there, but I think it can be very harmful to yourself to try to get that to happen while you harbor a wish for a healthy relationship with him. There is a motive involved in such scenarios. And it's not necessarily healthy. (I'm saying all this because I've read through this forum, and in the past you've shared that he is unavailable to a mutual relationship that meets your needs for I think, about a year or so? Forgive me if I have the timeline off.) It sounds as if you'd like him to meet emotional needs for you that he hasn't expressed a self-motivated interest in meeting for you. Are you by chance trying to lead a horse to water, and then coax it to drink? It's a long uphill slog to keep asking for your needs to be met by someone who has denied a committed relationship and isn't actively engaged in working toward the same objectives. Getting a satisfactory resolution to a text conversation is the molehill in front of a mountain of unavailability, if he isn't admitting a committed relationship with you after all this time, knowing that's what you'd like it to turn into. I may have missed a post in which he expressed a desire and intention to progress and solidify the relationship though, so my apologies if I am missing something. Take care of yourself, not him so much. He's not looking after you with the same interest, if he was you wouldn't be here. |
|
|
|
Post by faithopelove on Jan 20, 2019 21:34:54 GMT
Oh, boy...I thought he’d be back bc it was kind of left hanging? Nothing seemed final to me in that. A psychologist had told me to give a DA 10 days of space after a meet up but in the past I’ve found my guy to be subtly resentful and distant after a 10 day pull back. His place of comfort seems to be space 3-4 days after contact. I actually already texted my DA bc even though, I agree, it’s better in person, I didn’t want to wait. When I do that, I tend to let it go bc things are good on that particular day. I just texted it’s hard for me when he doesn’t respond and could he instead tell me he needs space or whatever...I said I’m trying to help us connect better. He respond in a few minutes that he was sorry, needed some alone time bc he was dealing w his issues and I shouldn’t take it personally. So I said thanks for telling me, I’ll be quiet a few days but I care and I’ll be thinking of him. I thought it was good he put into words that he needed to be alone- I’m always encouraging him to express his needs bc he believes no one cares about his needs and he’s on his own. So, this shows I can respond to his needs if he communicates them and I also communicated how I felt and he answered...and if he wants to explore these issues, that opens the door to refer him to an attachment page. This really sounds like you have a motivation to fix him or steer him in a direction toward attachment security, relationship availability , or to what you thought you had in the beginning. It went from seeking a satisfactory end to a text conversation to trying to open the door to attachment- that's a big leap. Intoducing him to attachment theory and showing him how you can be a good partner in addressing his issues may seem to be altruistic intentions, but there would also clearly be a benefit to you- meeting your needs and allowing you to enjoy the relationship he has said he isn't available for. (Or has he clearly said he is available for a relationship? I may be confused) People, especially DA's, tend to embark on the deep and hard journey of addressing attachment injuries when they are ready, as I'm sure you know. It's not bad to hope he'll get there, but I think it can be very harmful to yourself to try to get that to happen while you harbor a wish for a healthy relationship with him. There is a motive involved in such scenarios. And it's not necessarily healthy. (I'm saying all this because I've read through this forum, and in the past you've shared that he is unavailable to a mutual relationship that meets your needs for I think, about a year or so? Forgive me if I have the timeline off.) It sounds as if you'd like him to meet emotional needs for you that he hasn't expressed a self-motivated interest in meeting for you. Are you by chance trying to lead a horse to water, and then coax it to drink? It's a long uphill slog to keep asking for your needs to be met by someone who has denied a committed relationship and isn't actively engaged in working toward the same objectives. Getting a satisfactory resolution to a text conversation is the molehill in front of a mountain of unavailability, if he isn't admitting a committed relationship with you after all this time, knowing that's what you'd like it to turn into. I may have missed a post in which he expressed a desire and intention to progress and solidify the relationship though, so my apologies if I am missing something. Take care of yourself, not him so much. He's not looking after you with the same interest, if he was you wouldn't be here. Mickey - Actually you don’t know our background. We already were in a committed relationship, living together when we didn’t have our kids and he wanted to get married until he hit a brick wall, which my AP was a factor. I have no doubt of his love for me as he was always clear on that. So, the feelings and attraction I’m not trying to create as they already exist. The mountain, as you stated, stands in his way but is manageable of course if he’s willing and I believe there’s healing to be had in an understanding and patient partner. One that he’s never had as DA are often misunderstood. I would like him to move toward secure bc he’s expressed to me several times that he’s unhappy and “a mess.” He hasn’t been happy since our break, yet he’s stuck. He has no clue about attachment style. I think the answer lies in looking at his attachment trauma- so if I can steer him in that direction, then of course I gladly would. Not bc I want him to meet my needs, I want him to be happy and not be tortured anymore. If he could be happy alone or w someone else than I’d be happy for him, but I don’t see that happening until he addresses his issues. The fact he’s pulled away for a year is only an indicator of his DA trust issues- not his lack of feelings for me. I don’t judge him harshly as you are- his struggles due to his DA have nothing to do with lack of interest for me, which is why he told me not to take his need for alone time personally and why he’s never moved on to someone else. I am secure enough now in time and space and educated enough to give him patience and understanding without criticism or judgment. As far as being on these boards- I’m here to be further educated about attachment style. Not an indicator of his lack of interest bc I’m motivated to improve. You are extremely negative in your assumptions. Sounds to me like you’re projecting. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2019 22:39:01 GMT
This really sounds like you have a motivation to fix him or steer him in a direction toward attachment security, relationship availability , or to what you thought you had in the beginning. It went from seeking a satisfactory end to a text conversation to trying to open the door to attachment- that's a big leap. Intoducing him to attachment theory and showing him how you can be a good partner in addressing his issues may seem to be altruistic intentions, but there would also clearly be a benefit to you- meeting your needs and allowing you to enjoy the relationship he has said he isn't available for. (Or has he clearly said he is available for a relationship? I may be confused) People, especially DA's, tend to embark on the deep and hard journey of addressing attachment injuries when they are ready, as I'm sure you know. It's not bad to hope he'll get there, but I think it can be very harmful to yourself to try to get that to happen while you harbor a wish for a healthy relationship with him. There is a motive involved in such scenarios. And it's not necessarily healthy. (I'm saying all this because I've read through this forum, and in the past you've shared that he is unavailable to a mutual relationship that meets your needs for I think, about a year or so? Forgive me if I have the timeline off.) It sounds as if you'd like him to meet emotional needs for you that he hasn't expressed a self-motivated interest in meeting for you. Are you by chance trying to lead a horse to water, and then coax it to drink? It's a long uphill slog to keep asking for your needs to be met by someone who has denied a committed relationship and isn't actively engaged in working toward the same objectives. Getting a satisfactory resolution to a text conversation is the molehill in front of a mountain of unavailability, if he isn't admitting a committed relationship with you after all this time, knowing that's what you'd like it to turn into. I may have missed a post in which he expressed a desire and intention to progress and solidify the relationship though, so my apologies if I am missing something. Take care of yourself, not him so much. He's not looking after you with the same interest, if he was you wouldn't be here. Mickey - Actually you don’t know our background. We already were in a committed relationship, living together when we didn’t have our kids and he wanted to get married until he hit a brick wall, which my AP was a factor. I have no doubt of his love for me as he was always clear on that. So, the feelings and attraction I’m not trying to create as they already exist. The mountain, as you stated, stands in his way but is manageable of course if he’s willing and I believe there’s healing to be had in an understanding and patient partner. One that he’s never had as DA are often misunderstood. I would like him to move toward secure bc he’s expressed to me several times that he’s unhappy and “a mess.” He hasn’t been happy since our break, yet he’s stuck. He has no clue about attachment style. I think the answer lies in looking at his attachment trauma- so if I can steer him in that direction, then of course I gladly would. Not bc I want him to meet my needs, I want him to be happy and not be tortured anymore. If he could be happy alone or w someone else than I’d be happy for him, but I don’t see that happening until he addresses his issues. The fact he’s pulled away for a year is only an indicator of his DA trust issues- not his lack of feelings for me. I don’t judge him harshly as you are- his struggles due to his DA have nothing to do with lack of interest for me, which is why he told me not to take his need for alone time personally and why he’s never moved on to someone else. I am secure enough now in time and space and educated enough to give him patience and understanding without criticism or judgment. As far as being on these boards- I’m here to be further educated about attachment style. Not an indicator of his lack of interest bc I’m motivated to improve. You are extremely negative in your assumptions. Sounds to me like you’re projecting. I'm sorry, you seem to be offended but also seem to be responding to statements I didn't make. Nowehere did I indicate he doesn't have feelings for you. I have no idea how I could make such a determination.. Nowhere did I indicate he isn't interested in you. Clearly his interest is enough to keep him engaging with you on a certain level. All I know, is what you share here. A DA can certainly have feelings for you and be interested in you in some capacity without having an intention or capacity to progress a serious relationship. I used the word "interest" in an observation that he does not seem to be looking after you with the same interest as you are looking after him. By this, I mean that he does not seem to be pursuing the same level of interaction or relationship progression that you are. It's just an observation, and I could be mistaken. But I did want to say that the presence of feelings and interest in you as a person don't spell the desire and capacity to forge a long term relationship or to meet even the most minimal of your emotional needs. I understand that you think I am overly negative in my assumptions. However, I'm just making observations as an uninterested third party that are pretty much in line with the experiences of many who post here ( and the internet at large ) when it comes to an AP steering a DA (or otherwise emotionally unavailable individual) toward attachment and emotional security and the relationship the AP would like to realize. So, in a nutshell, I'm simply observing that you two don't seem to have a mutually acknowledge committed relationship. It's very difficult to get your emotional needs met in such a situation. That fact is revealed in post after post here as where as many other sources. I didn't mean to offend you wih rhat information. I'll gladly refrain from providing further input, though, as you seem to fairly sure you're on the right track. I wish you the best! |
|
|
|
Post by sissyk on Jan 20, 2019 23:18:38 GMT
Mickey - Actually you don’t know our background. We already were in a committed relationship, living together when we didn’t have our kids and he wanted to get married until he hit a brick wall, which my AP was a factor. I have no doubt of his love for me as he was always clear on that. So, the feelings and attraction I’m not trying to create as they already exist. The mountain, as you stated, stands in his way but is manageable of course if he’s willing and I believe there’s healing to be had in an understanding and patient partner. One that he’s never had as DA are often misunderstood. I would like him to move toward secure bc he’s expressed to me several times that he’s unhappy and “a mess.” He hasn’t been happy since our break, yet he’s stuck. He has no clue about attachment style. I think the answer lies in looking at his attachment trauma- so if I can steer him in that direction, then of course I gladly would. Not bc I want him to meet my needs, I want him to be happy and not be tortured anymore. If he could be happy alone or w someone else than I’d be happy for him, but I don’t see that happening until he addresses his issues. The fact he’s pulled away for a year is only an indicator of his DA trust issues- not his lack of feelings for me. I don’t judge him harshly as you are- his struggles due to his DA have nothing to do with lack of interest for me, which is why he told me not to take his need for alone time personally and why he’s never moved on to someone else. I am secure enough now in time and space and educated enough to give him patience and understanding without criticism or judgment. As far as being on these boards- I’m here to be further educated about attachment style. Not an indicator of his lack of interest bc I’m motivated to improve. You are extremely negative in your assumptions. Sounds to me like you’re projecting. I'm sorry, you seem to be offended but also seem to be responding to statements I didn't make. Nowehere did I indicate he doesn't have feelings for you. I have no idea how I could make such a determination.. Nowhere did I indicate he isn't interested in you. Clearly his interest is enough to keep him engaging with you on a certain level. All I know, is what you share here. A DA can certainly have feelings for you and be interested in you in some capacity without having an intention or capacity to progress a serious relationship. I used the word "interest" in an observation that he does not seem to be looking after you with the same interest as you are looking after him. By this, I mean that he does not seem to be pursuing the same level of interaction or relationship progression that you are. It's just an observation, and I could be mistaken. But I did want to say that the presence of feelings and interest in you as a person don't spell the desire and capacity to forge a long term relationship or to meet even the most minimal of your emotional needs. I understand that you think I am overly negative in my assumptions. However, I'm just making observations as an uninterested third party that are pretty much in line with the experiences of many who post here ( and the internet at large ) when it comes to an AP steering a DA (or otherwise emotionally unavailable individual) toward attachment and emotional security and the relationship the AP would like to realize. So, in a nutshell, I'm simply observing that you two don't seem to have a mutually acknowledge committed relationship. It's very difficult to get your emotional needs met in such a situation. That fact is revealed in post after post here as where as many other sources. I didn't mean to offend you wih rhat information. I'll gladly refrain from providing further input, though, as you seem to fairly sure you're on the right track. I wish you the best! Not to stir the pot here--but I too heard "you can't fix someone else" from DAs when I posted originally. It was a tough pill to swallow but was important medicine for me. Because the corollary is "You didn't cause this and it is not up to you or your actions to fix," which I found freeing. Did I do everything textbook right? No. Does anyone in any relationship? No. Did you deserve to get broken up with because you acted AP? No. You have shown the patience of Job with him from what you have posted. I honestly ask this with curiosity: Doesn't your DA KNOW after all this time, your history, and likely many variations of this conversation or strong hints along the way that saying he is too busy and then not replying at all would be hurtful to you? That was a small but brave risk you took. Crickets. So you followed up with another text. He replied. He feels less bad about himself if he apologizes...but that may be easier for him than any alternative: Ghosting. Escalating. Cutting off ties all together. Been there! Am I projecting from my different experience with a different DA? Of course! But it is a heavy burden to fix this all by yourself if he even wants fixing or is ready for it. I know you two have a long history and he is depressed so take my comments with a big old grain of salt. I am just adding this to the general dialogue for other Googlers in similar situations who find there way here too. It can feel like climbing Mount Everest, one toehold at a time. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 0:41:52 GMT
In reality, faithopelove , you and I have something in common in terms of the difficulty we have experienced in achieving healthy emotional relating with another insecurely attached person. I don't know that there is anything to project there, it seems fairly obvious that we both (you and I) have experienced similar frustrations there. Perhaps you feel that I'm projecting because I am DA and your partner is some kind of avoidant, but I see some big differences between him and I, namely in terms of our awareness of attachment issues and our mental health (I don't suffer depression and count that as a major obstacle to healthy relationships). As an AP, you may have experienced your own insecurity about his feelings and attachment for you in light of his avoidant behavior- that's a pretty common issue from what I understand. I note that you brought those up in your comments to me although I hadn't referenced his feelings or attraction to you at all- I don't see that as the issue that prevents him from a relationship so much as depression and apparent attachment issues of which he is apparently unaware. Most aware people here , regardless of attachment style, are trying to work with their own dynamic to get healthier and have better boundaries. Your patterns will look a bit different than mine but with less defensiveness you might see that we have similar objectives (to have emotional needs met in a healthy way) . I don't find myself judging your partner harshly at all. I think I can see him fairly objectively, at least from what you have shared, as a person who has serious personal issues that prevent him from being in a committed relationship with you or meeting your needs consistently. As a DA, i have a pretty solid understanding and empathy for that actually. I have empathy for you as a person who has struggled with attachment insecurity and the pain of unhealthy dynamics. In the end, I can simply reiterate my belief that it's very difficult to get your needs met with an unaware insecurely attached partner. I've experienced that myself. And, I'd encourage you to take good care of yourself. Nothing negative in that, I think it's supportive, although perhaps not in the way you would prefer. So, I respectfully disagree with your comments about me and again, wish you the best in your process. |
|
|
|
Post by faithopelove on Jan 21, 2019 1:23:37 GMT
I'm sorry, you seem to be offended but also seem to be responding to statements I didn't make. Nowehere did I indicate he doesn't have feelings for you. I have no idea how I could make such a determination.. Nowhere did I indicate he isn't interested in you. Clearly his interest is enough to keep him engaging with you on a certain level. All I know, is what you share here. A DA can certainly have feelings for you and be interested in you in some capacity without having an intention or capacity to progress a serious relationship. I used the word "interest" in an observation that he does not seem to be looking after you with the same interest as you are looking after him. By this, I mean that he does not seem to be pursuing the same level of interaction or relationship progression that you are. It's just an observation, and I could be mistaken. But I did want to say that the presence of feelings and interest in you as a person don't spell the desire and capacity to forge a long term relationship or to meet even the most minimal of your emotional needs. I understand that you think I am overly negative in my assumptions. However, I'm just making observations as an uninterested third party that are pretty much in line with the experiences of many who post here ( and the internet at large ) when it comes to an AP steering a DA (or otherwise emotionally unavailable individual) toward attachment and emotional security and the relationship the AP would like to realize. So, in a nutshell, I'm simply observing that you two don't seem to have a mutually acknowledge committed relationship. It's very difficult to get your emotional needs met in such a situation. That fact is revealed in post after post here as where as many other sources. I didn't mean to offend you wih rhat information. I'll gladly refrain from providing further input, though, as you seem to fairly sure you're on the right track. I wish you the best! Not to stir the pot here--but I too heard "you can't fix someone else" from DAs when I posted originally. It was a tough pill to swallow but was important medicine for me. Because the corollary is "You didn't cause this and it is not up to you or your actions to fix," which I found freeing. Did I do everything textbook right? No. Does anyone in any relationship? No. Did you deserve to get broken up with because you acted AP? No. You have shown the patience of Job with him from what you have posted. I honestly ask this with curiosity: Doesn't your DA KNOW after all this time, your history, and likely many variations of this conversation or strong hints along the way that saying he is too busy and then not replying at all would be hurtful to you? That was a small but brave risk you took. Crickets. So you followed up with another text. He replied. He feels less bad about himself if he apologizes...but that may be easier for him than any alternative: Ghosting. Escalating. Cutting off ties all together. Been there! Am I projecting from my different experience with a different DA? Of course! But it is a heavy burden to fix this all by yourself if he even wants fixing or is ready for it. I know you two have a long history and he is depressed so take my comments with a big old grain of salt. I am just adding this to the general dialogue for other Googlers in similar situations who find there way here too. It can feel like climbing Mount Everest, one toehold at a time. Hi sissyk - yes, I agree it felt like a bit of a risky move on my part to double text bc he’s sensitive to criticism and was already deactivating. I felt calling him out on his non-response was part of respecting myself and my own needs. I’ve been patient but I’m not going to tolerate being ghosted without honestly communicating how that makes me feel. He struggles to share any of his needs so my request also encouraged him to communicate his needs to me. That is progress. I just wanted to be careful to communicate my message in a calm and rational way recognizing that my AP tendencies have caused me to act out emotionally and unfairly in the past. I think I communicated fairly since he answered in kind. Asserting my needs w out suppressing and later lashing out is progress for me....I felt like I was riding a bike without training wheels, and his response about needing alone time was exactly the one I expected since we had just seen each other two nights prior. Job? Well, I’ve been pretty patient but certainly have pushed at times....it’s been easier lately since not having the high anxiety in time and space that I experienced w severe AP. I’m calmer now. I have empathy for his issues and in the meantime, I’m learning to stand on my own two feet without a husband or boyfriend for the first time in my adult life. A lot of lessons here and we’re not done with each other. |
|
|
|
Post by faithopelove on Jan 21, 2019 1:51:11 GMT
Mickey - Actually you don’t know our background. We already were in a committed relationship, living together when we didn’t have our kids and he wanted to get married until he hit a brick wall, which my AP was a factor. I have no doubt of his love for me as he was always clear on that. So, the feelings and attraction I’m not trying to create as they already exist. The mountain, as you stated, stands in his way but is manageable of course if he’s willing and I believe there’s healing to be had in an understanding and patient partner. One that he’s never had as DA are often misunderstood. I would like him to move toward secure bc he’s expressed to me several times that he’s unhappy and “a mess.” He hasn’t been happy since our break, yet he’s stuck. He has no clue about attachment style. I think the answer lies in looking at his attachment trauma- so if I can steer him in that direction, then of course I gladly would. Not bc I want him to meet my needs, I want him to be happy and not be tortured anymore. If he could be happy alone or w someone else than I’d be happy for him, but I don’t see that happening until he addresses his issues. The fact he’s pulled away for a year is only an indicator of his DA trust issues- not his lack of feelings for me. I don’t judge him harshly as you are- his struggles due to his DA have nothing to do with lack of interest for me, which is why he told me not to take his need for alone time personally and why he’s never moved on to someone else. I am secure enough now in time and space and educated enough to give him patience and understanding without criticism or judgment. As far as being on these boards- I’m here to be further educated about attachment style. Not an indicator of his lack of interest bc I’m motivated to improve. You are extremely negative in your assumptions. Sounds to me like you’re projecting. I'm sorry, you seem to be offended but also seem to be responding to statements I didn't make. Nowehere did I indicate he doesn't have feelings for you. I have no idea how I could make such a determination.. Nowhere did I indicate he isn't interested in you. Clearly his interest is enough to keep him engaging with you on a certain level. All I know, is what you share here. A DA can certainly have feelings for you and be interested in you in some capacity without having an intention or capacity to progress a serious relationship. I used the word "interest" in an observation that he does not seem to be looking after you with the same interest as you are looking after him. By this, I mean that he does not seem to be pursuing the same level of interaction or relationship progression that you are. It's just an observation, and I could be mistaken. But I did want to say that the presence of feelings and interest in you as a person don't spell the desire and capacity to forge a long term relationship or to meet even the most minimal of your emotional needs. I understand that you think I am overly negative in my assumptions. However, I'm just making observations as an uninterested third party that are pretty much in line with the experiences of many who post here ( and the internet at large ) when it comes to an AP steering a DA (or otherwise emotionally unavailable individual) toward attachment and emotional security and the relationship the AP would like to realize. So, in a nutshell, I'm simply observing that you two don't seem to have a mutually acknowledge committed relationship. It's very difficult to get your emotional needs met in such a situation. That fact is revealed in post after post here as where as many other sources. I didn't mean to offend you wih rhat information. I'll gladly refrain from providing further input, though, as you seem to fairly sure you're on the right track. I wish you the best! Hi Mickey - He’s def not seeking a serious, committed relationship right now with me or thinking to meet my emotional needs as his trust in us was broken. That’s why he broke up with me. To him, it’s about trust and I don’t know if that trust can ever be repaired. He may choose to be alone for the rest of his life- he is strongly independent as DA are...so, yes, at this time he’s not ready, but he’s still unwilling to shut the door on us. I think a part of him still has hope and with consistency and understanding trust may be fostered. Either way, I’m working on being more secure and continuing to educate myself bc I need to be happy with or without him. And you’re right- things aren’t equal between us. I never gave up- never left him and I haven’t given up. This track we’re on currently is the only one I’m willing to try at this time until I either can’t take it anymore or he tells me to exit his life. If we can ultimately make this work and he’s willing to look at attachment then I’d be happy to be there. I was only posting originally bc I was trying to assert and communicate my needs to him in an non-confrontational and gentle way. As a recovering AP I check myself on this. Either one of us expressing our needs with vulnerability is great progress. And we did. Baby steps. Thanks for your well wishes! |
|
|
|
Post by 8675309 on Jan 21, 2019 2:57:30 GMT
You have never brought up attachment? Bring it up! Dont fear talking about this. Talk about how learning it has helped you, talk about what his attachment-behaviour does to you and why you've acted in some ways, your triggers. How much growth you've had. This is a perfectly healthy conversation to have, its the reality of you two. Attachment is a real thing, Its real feeling, its real needs, its real growth, etc.
I straight up told my guy how his avoidant behaviors and running away gave me anxiety, etc and learned to sooth it by understanding it. Learning attachment changed my life. I dont think hes bothered to look it up. I dont bug him to look it up and wont but I will not hold back on talking about it. He has to do it on his own. Im just being open/vulnerable, staying consistent, Im calm and I dont push but Ima' ganna' talk. haha.
Have the talk, you have all this history, you were going to get married...just say it. If you saw a therapist together its not like they would not tell you to be open about all this to help meet each others needs. Let the chips fall, you never know, he could have an ah ha moment after you talk. He could go quiet for a while but hes not going anywhere. Having this talk is eating at you Im sure, it ate at me. haha. I have this weight off my shoulders, the vulnerable real truth set me free even if he runs and never talks to me again.
|
|
|
|
Post by faithopelove on Jan 21, 2019 5:23:42 GMT
You have never brought up attachment? Bring it up! Dont fear talking about this. Talk about how learning it has helped you, talk about what his attachment-behaviour does to you and why you've acted in some ways, your triggers. How much growth you've had. This is a perfectly healthy conversation to have, its the reality of you two. Attachment is a real thing, Its real feeling, its real needs, its real growth, etc. I straight up told my guy how his avoidant behaviors and running away gave me anxiety, etc and learned to sooth it by understanding it. Learning attachment changed my life. I dont think hes bothered to look it up. I dont bug him to look it up and wont but I will not hold back on talking about it. He has to do it on his own. Im just being open/vulnerable, staying consistent, Im calm and I dont push but Ima' ganna' talk. haha. Have the talk, you have all this history, you were going to get married...just say it. If you saw a therapist together its not like they would not tell you to be open about all this to help meet each others needs. Let the chips fall, you never know, he could have an ah ha moment after you talk. He could go quiet for a while but hes not going anywhere. Having this talk is eating at you Im sure, it ate at me. haha. I have this weight off my shoulders, the vulnerable real truth set me free even if he runs and never talks to me again. Hey....Yes, you’re right, I want to bring it up and I will...typical fashion though he’s not one to dive into self-reflection or have soul searching talks about psychology or his childhood. He’s very introverted. We are classic AP and DA- esp when we were together. Yes, “the talk” is eating at me. I even had a dream last night that he overheard one of my attachment videos. Did you send yours a link to read or a video? I’ve thought about sending him one on DA attachment but don’t know if he’d read or watch it. Maybe ask him first if he’d be willing... I would think it would resonate with him, and he tells me there’s something wrong with him, but he doesn’t know what it is so maybe it would be eye opening. |
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Jan 21, 2019 8:22:20 GMT
faithopelove, it is a bit tricky to do this in a way that isn't triggering. It may go better if you talk your way through what you've learned about AP first, and how much it helped you be a better version of youself, and that attachment theory is widely applicable because it outlines patterns that have existed since childhood and allows for change in things that seem stuck. However, I do want to offer you something else worth considering. You talked about how you just want your ex to be happy, and you know that he would be happier if he worked on his attachment issues. Yes, I agree, but it's also very possible that he does not want to be happy. Sounds off, like, why would someone choose not to be happy? But this is what happened with my ex after I told him the term FA exists. I have said before I just want him to be happy, and I believe he knows that's true. However, a few months after that conversation, he told me he is no longer pursuing happiness, which is too fleeting for him, and instead just trying to avoid making himself unhappy. Which was not the takeaway I was expecting at all, and he's found another relationship to distract him so he can do this. I don't know your ex, I don't know how interested he is in healing. I just don't want you to keep twisting youself into a pretzel to accommodate him if he's not looking to be helped or even to be happy. If you've got things that are important to you to say, then say them, but just don't expect much change. He's been pretty consistent in what he's offered you in the past year, and that's likely all he's able to handle (some closeness followed by a 3-4 day cooldown period).
|
|
