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Post by unluckyinlove on Jan 23, 2019 19:17:31 GMT
I kind of wonder, too, and correct me if I'm way off base: Is the AP posting that focuses on an unavailable partner, or an ex partner, a way to stay engaged in the relationship and actively participate in something related to the relationship, when the partner refuses to? Is talking about an ex an trying to figure them out kind of a surrogate or a substitute for actual intimacy that would have the partner explaining themselves and participating in a dialog instead of going through indirect chanels? It seems like the preoccupation with an unavailable partner or ex partner by new AP is less a way to understand for reasons of personal development, and more a way to hold on and try to accommodate an emotionally absent and physically unavailable partner. Don't shoot me, it's an honest question. It’s a fair question and makes sense for you to ask. Perhaps it is a way for the AP to continue to hold onto the relationship, but I think more than that, it might just be a way for us to seek that validation we could never fully get within the relationship. In my personal experience, I wasn’t aware of attachment styles and I was left scratching my head as far as what happened and why my boyfriend just left me when the relationship seemed to be going well. I don’t expect him back at this point (and although still healing, pretty close to the belief that I don’t want him back) but I think exploring the FA/DA mind and what “makes them tick”.....the triggers and deactivation methods....has helped give me some closure. It seems that FA/DA’s natural lack of emotional disclosure is very frustrating for an AP who’s natural inclination is FULL emotional disclosure. It comes back to just needing something emotionaly that we aren’t being given. So if we can’t get it from the source itself, we join a forum such as this one. We want to know what others who relate to FA/DA tendencies think. And I do agree with one of your other comments that maybe we can project a little of our own situation on other FA/DA posters in search of the unfulfilled answers in our own life. Many APs seem to have big abandonment fears also, so to be able to assign an “attachment issue” to the breakup is much easier to accept than that there was something wrong with me or with us as a couple. I know that’s how I personally feel because I got absolutely no real closure. I think it was said in another thread that the leaving IS the closure but that’s not enough to satisfy an AP. We need to know that we meant something to our significant other and the FA/DA is usually not going to give us that. We seek validation in the relationship and when we still don’t ever have that need filled, we continue to seek it outside. The need is still there even though the relationship is not! |
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Post by alexandra on Jan 23, 2019 21:07:56 GMT
@mickey , not consciously. Part of the AP nervous system getting flooded is often rumination, so if triggered it's hard to stop it. That's one way it can manifest. Gotcha. It all plays out here, I guess. If an AP is stuck in rumination that's when they spend the most time being critical or caretaking of their deactivated or disinterested ex, which is just part of the loop I guess. So in those cases, maybe pointing out they have some work to do to get on top of that rumination is reasonable? And not just being unhelpful? Or is it better to just not engage with it? I could see that it would just be triggering and fruitless if they aren't ready to hear it. Asking for a friend. haha. Anyway, this has been an informative thread but went all over the place, sorry faithopelove! Most of the practice on this board is to shift the conversation to, what self-exploration can you do if you shift the focus from your ex to you? But people are ready to hear it at their own speed, so if there's a gentle acknowledgment of yes this situation sucks, here's what might have happened but have you considered not all of this pain is about your partner and thought about your attachment style? And the person just goes on and on obsessing about the ex, then that's what they're going to do. But it doesn't mean they didn't hear the suggestion and may come back to it a couple weeks or months down the road. I've definitely seen that happen, and everyone should be respected about where they are in the process. Otherwise, really pushing them to do something else may be really triggering -- especially when an AP or FA has low self worth after a breakup. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 21:23:43 GMT
Gotcha. It all plays out here, I guess. If an AP is stuck in rumination that's when they spend the most time being critical or caretaking of their deactivated or disinterested ex, which is just part of the loop I guess. So in those cases, maybe pointing out they have some work to do to get on top of that rumination is reasonable? And not just being unhelpful? Or is it better to just not engage with it? I could see that it would just be triggering and fruitless if they aren't ready to hear it. Asking for a friend. haha. Anyway, this has been an informative thread but went all over the place, sorry faithopelove ! Most of the practice on this board is to shift the conversation to, what self-exploration can you do if you shift the focus from your ex to you? But people are ready to hear it at their own speed, so if there's a gentle acknowledgment of yes this situation sucks, here's what might have happened but have you considered not all of this pain is about your partner and thought about your attachment style? And the person just goes on and on obsessing about the ex, then that's what they're going to do. But it doesn't mean they didn't hear the suggestion and may come back to it a couple weeks or months down the road. I've definitely seen that happen, and everyone should be respected about where they are in the process. Otherwise, really pushing them to do something else may be really triggering -- especially when an AP or FA has low self worth after a breakup. Ok, I understand that. I'd also say that triggered AP's aren't the only ones in the room, and they can be pushed back on for their behavior that can be unfair and triggering as well. I'm not triggered by the projection and "you, you,you" when lamenting the behavior of an ex, but the needs and boundaries of DA's who post here can and should be taken into consideration as well. That said, it's just a forum and anything can be taken or left, it needn't be devastating either way. As far as what anyone else does with their process, I will probably tend to stand back, even if they are asking for DA perspective, simply because it seems to not go over well when it's not in line with what they are hoping to hear. I can respect that every one is in a different place and just stay in my own lane on stuff like that, it doesn't really need to be on my radar for my own process. Thanks everyone, for the discussion! |
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Post by alexandra on Jan 23, 2019 23:10:59 GMT
@mickey, everyone should get respect because everyone here is looking for help. Your question was about APs, but there are definitely misunderstandings here in all directions. Anxious have to work on trusting themselves and avoidant have to work on trusting others and that they have good intentions, so it's two different issues that are bound to cause clashing without a lot of work (not limited to romantic relationships). There's definitely communication aspects no matter the attachment style, which is also why I found understanding across the board helpful. An AP might keep pushing and pushing if they can't appreciate or understand that the other person is shutting down.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 23:30:15 GMT
@mickey , everyone should get respect because everyone here is looking for help. Your question was about APs, but there are definitely misunderstandings here in all directions. Anxious have to work on trusting themselves and avoidant have to work on trusting others and that they have good intentions, so it's two different issues that are bound to cause clashing without a lot of work (not limited to romantic relationships). There's definitely communication aspects no matter the attachment style, which is also why I found understanding across the board helpful. An AP might keep pushing and pushing if they can't appreciate or understand that the other person is shutting down. I don't quite agree with your synopsis of what we are working on, but the idea of respect for all has merit to me. All attachment styles have to learn to trust themselves. My very first post was actually about that- distinguishing deactivation from a reaction to something actually harming me. And, I know that experts also say that AP tend to view the actions and intentions of others in an overly pessimistic light, reading negative intentions into the words and actions of others. So, again, there is room for disagreement. DA's will come here seeking one thing, AP's another, they don't have to help each other at all really, it's all voluntary. I'm of the firm belief that those who want recovery will find it, and this isn't the last stop on the road to attachment security. If it helps people, great, if it triggers people, they will survive. Its about learning how to navigate- and where to navigate too! Lots of interesting information here, some messiness, but overall, what can we expect from a free forum on the iNtErWeBz lol! |
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Post by mrob on Jan 24, 2019 0:05:54 GMT
Before Christmas there was a massive blow up on this forum because of exactly what you just described. Ultimately, the avoidant left the building, and the individual that poked and prodded her still lurks on here as a guest. It was a real shame, because the dialogue on this forum was far richer for the different points of view. With both sides on here, working towards some sort of secure attachment, or at least improvement, something quite special happens here.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2019 0:14:52 GMT
Before Christmas there was a massive blow up on this forum because of exactly what you just described. Ultimately, the avoidant left the building, and the individual that poked and prodded her still lurks on here as a guest. It was a real shame, because the dialogue on this forum was far richer for the different points of view. With both sides on here, working towards some sort of secure attachment, or at least improvement, something quite special happens here. ugh, I'm beginning to see that! Yowzers. Talk about bullying- but I see it from the avoidant's point of view. So the DA's really are the bad guys here, it seems, if they don't deliver. Theres a thread in the support section that provides a warning and actually I see that happen even now. A few people left. I get it! Ah well, it's just a pit stop really. Best of luck mrob!  |
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Post by faithopelove on Jan 24, 2019 3:02:09 GMT
@mickey, everyone should get respect because everyone here is looking for help. Your question was about APs, but there are definitely misunderstandings here in all directions. Anxious have to work on trusting themselves and avoidant have to work on trusting others and that they have good intentions, so it's two different issues that are bound to cause clashing without a lot of work (not limited to romantic relationships). There's definitely communication aspects no matter the attachment style, which is also why I found understanding across the board helpful. An AP might keep pushing and pushing if they can't appreciate or understand that the other person is shutting down. Good summary regarding trust, Alexandra...I’m glad this thread sparked so many insightful conversations. |
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Post by faithopelove on Jan 24, 2019 3:12:44 GMT
Before Christmas there was a massive blow up on this forum because of exactly what you just described. Ultimately, the avoidant left the building, and the individual that poked and prodded her still lurks on here as a guest. It was a real shame, because the dialogue on this forum was far richer for the different points of view. With both sides on here, working towards some sort of secure attachment, or at least improvement, something quite special happens here. ugh, I'm beginning to see that! Yowzers. Talk about bullying- but I see it from the avoidant's point of view. So the DA's really are the bad guys here, it seems, if they don't deliver. Theres a thread in the support section that provides a warning and actually I see that happen even now. A few people left. I get it! Ah well, it's just a pit stop really. Best of luck mrob! I don’t see DA’s as the bad guys...I have a ton of empathy for my ex and tenderness for him. Speaking for myself, some communication styles clash and lingering negative feelings can trigger others. The avoidant attachment isn’t my own but I do desire to understand it and enjoy the various points of views and growth that can occur on the boards. This thread, for example, was awesome in that regard 🙂 |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2019 3:59:02 GMT
I totally missed that blowout, but had a vague idea of everyone getting massively triggered and leaving the boards.  I've gotten triggered both ways, and while it's highly annoying, I don't find it a bad thing, it's just a reminder of where I am in my journey and what I need to do. That's a great thing! That's getting real concrete feedback, rather than simply thinking you're healed and earned secure because you've been able to think in a particular way. I still get triggered but i don't take the triggers personally anymore. I see it as... getting an acne breakout before a date, which is highly annoying, but it is what it is. haha! One thing I would like to see is a more constructive and concrete discussion around how one would like to be talked to during a "conversation". Nobody has really talked about that, and we've mostly focused on perspectives and experiences and healing, which is all great. but I'd like to learn some skills too. aside from that, I believe that sharing what you would say and how you perceive what others have said would be quite insightful into your own lenses and approach to things. |
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I've gotten triggered both ways, and while it's highly annoying, I don't find it a bad thing, it's just a reminder of where I am in my journey and what I need to do. That's a great thing! That's getting real concrete feedback, rather than simply thinking you're healed and earned secure because you've been able to think in a particular way. I still get triggered but i don't take the triggers personally anymore. I see it as... getting an acne breakout before a date, which is highly annoying, but it is what it is. haha!