Telling DA a request gently?

Thinking further, @shiningstar , I wonder if that was his version of AP protest behavior that threatens to leave the relationship?
Just an insecure acting out?

Honestly? I think there's an element of flagging independence out of insecurity. it's like having to tell people you are smart because you're afraid people don't know you're smart. constantly talking about this need for independence tells me that you're still insecure about your independence, and that you're not really healing to allow for interdependency without losing autonomy and choice. (not you @mickey, just a generic "you").


you're probably right that he was distancing and keeping himself safe; he said it's not meant to be a threat, but it sure as hell feels like it. in any case, i got triggered and i did exactly the same. I had initially thought that he was aware and working on it - because that's what he said. he recognizes that he doesn't have healthy relationships, and he hopes to have it, and it takes so much effort on his end to be out of isolation and be in contact with the world. I've now realized that being aware is not the same as being on recovery. when we broke up, he said that i had triggered in him negative emotions he was not willing to deal with, so he doesn't want this relationship anymore. I think the willingness and ability to deal with negative emotions is a really important indicator of recovery. I also think that the willingness and ability to explore your past, ego, and intentions/motivations are also key to recovery. Just saying that you want healthy relationships and trying to exercise behaviors to mirror them, without doing the deep work within oneself, is not recovery.

i have my avoidant tendencies and I truly understand the need for autonomy and space, but i also believe that's true for everyone. my personal experience of why this DA was so triggering (besides what i've mentioned), was that he was so much more successful than i was that i feared being engulfed by him. i did not have enough of my own life to prove to myself that i can do it alone and also to "defend" against being subsumed by his. when he wanted to move the relationship forward, all i felt was that i had to give up whatever little i had so that i can play a role in his life but not him in mine nor create new stories together. it felt like there was simply no space for me as a person and it was really terrifying for me.

my own road to recovery started when i asked myself how i could hurt someone i claim to love deeply. if i loved that person, how could i have engaged in this game, and allow myself to hurt him perhaps not on intention, but always as a reaction. that's when i started delving into myself, and asking myself why i would have these fears, and how i can address them within myself so that I have control and faith in myself, without having to stress the other party out.

I'd think it was more likely a distancing tactic, as you suggested the first time. My FA said to me once, after we'd dated a pretty long time and he was deactivating, that he understood the tradeoffs of being with me. I was incredibly taken aback. We were very compatible, I wasn't needy and gave him space, and he'd never complained about anything specific at that point. It very much was a big sigh about how relationships are suuuuuch an imposition, and it was very hurtful. I didn't say anything because I was bad at stating my needs and didn't know what to say. But since he's FA, when he's not in a relationship, he desperately wants one. Anyway, just offering another example of that happening and it being triggering to my fear of abandonment at the time, and you not being alone, @shiningstar!

I agree, I think the need to constantly assert it comes from insecurity.
As a matter of fact, I do remember hearing that from a suspected avoidant that I dated.
This was in my infancy of awareness.
I myself have not engaged in that and I think the reason why is that I really was out in left field feeling awkward and trying to act normal. I didn't talk much about who and what I am because I wasn't sure and didn't have the words or terms.
Now , looking back. I see I was heavily DA.
But it showed up in deactivation and disappearance. I didn't even stick around to threaten to leave or assert by independence, I just apologized and left.
I had no idea, I thought I was just inexperienced and I would get better at "normal" as it looked like to me amongst friends and the world at large.

And, I actually can relate to feeling engulfed or subsumed by a partner's success.
I've felt that before too, it's just another insecure trait I guess.
I naturally retreat into myself and have been engulfed by the big lives of partners before, but it was ok with me because I was removed internally. What really deactivated me is another kind of engulfment, one that invaded my thoughts and values and choices and such. I can fade to the background easily in the external world, but stay out of my head haha!

My start i. recovery came from recognizing how I both inflicted and experienced pain, without the intention to do so.
The reactivity that I felt I had no control of (and didn't). So mine was in the deactivation response, which I still experience and work through.
But also. I have a healthy aversion now to boundary-violating behaviors.
I read recently about a disnissive's ability to dismiss real threats, originating from a need to survive them in childhood and being unable to avoid them, while receiving no help from caregivers.
So waking up to my own ability to tune out harm in the environment has been a HUGE part of my growth.
In the end, do many things are similar in our recovery.
Recognizing harm, in reality and not in imagination.
Developing better boundaries.
Developing Interdependence.
Developing our own ability to be authentic and genuine, to say what we mean and listen when others do the same.
Acceptance, of ourselves and others.
Understanding our needs and the needs of others.

Lots of good stuff.

No apologies- I’m totally enjoying this and glad we’re all getting insight! By the way...that word “alone.” My DA uses that word a lot too- seems like his mantra now...and it also strikes anxiety in me. It’s hard to accept one could so easily walk away and may prefer it!

My DA since the break says that too- no protest, it’s a defeated resignation. He says it with sadness- “I’ll just die alone. I do better alone”...disconcerting to me. He says it like a person who has been crushed and disappointed one too many times.

This is some really good stuff. I definitely have both AP and DA behaviors when triggered, and it was stressing me out so much i was crying every morning and night.

I think my ex thinks i'm destabilizing, and I think the same of him... and that's the sad part. i can see that now but it's kinda too late to do anything. also, i feel quite put out that I have to be conscious of how I am destabilizing to him, but he doesn't seem to be aware of how he is destabilizing. he thinks he's great and he's making all that effort - which he is, but only in terms of behavior, but not addressing the emotional energy that underlies the relationship.

Not sure about other APs. For me, i was extremely invested in my rship right from the get go, so those shenanigans were really hurtful and it re-traumatized my wounds regarding being unwanted/undesirable enough for someone I love to be clear about what he wants. he says one thing and behaves in another - my previous serious rship was the same. i tried everything, trying harder, trying less, being cold, being warm. nothing i did was useful nor healthy. i was all over the map, trying to create a stable situation that we are both comfortable in, but clearly that wasn't helpful nor appreciated. he did say before, just BE you. don't be anything else. my response to that was, when I am ME, you get annoyed by it and then you punish me for things you don't like now but were things you liked enough to be in a relationship with. when i AM me, sometimes it's great, sometimes you get annoyed by it. it was just maddening.

the "leave threatening" behavior is the trigger for anxiety. it triggers survival mode and panic, if the AP was already invested in the rship. the more secure and centered one gets, the more this behavior is a turn off.