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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 3:09:57 GMT
@shiningstar, parts of you sound so avoidant lol! I was reflecting today, that I have a tendency to experience "out of sight, out of mind" , so if I am apart from a partner and not in contact feel disconnected but not uncomfortable. These days I actually initiate contact throughout the day to connect and stay connected, not because I think I will drift away but because I know my nature is to not automatically connect and if I just behave habitually then I wouldn't be doing my part and it ivan feel alienating to a partner. I guess I would feel alienated if I am seeing someone and they didn't check in with me also. So, it's nice and I think it's just good for a relationship.
I like good morning and good night texts also. My former partner liked to face time and that was totally new and odd for me at first but it was nice to see his face and I think it really is a great way to communicate if you can get past how you look on selfie cam lol!!
The checking in, good morning good night stuff is stuff I avoid if I'm deactivated or really being avoidant- these days it's not intentional it would be more deactivation but I have consciously avoided the expected contact in order to distance and put a perimeter around myself and avoid consistency and closeness. Keep it ambiguous. Not proud of that but there it is. straight from a DA. :/
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Post by alexandra on Jan 23, 2019 3:16:30 GMT
It’s almost like AP lack the object permanence that young babies lack- that’s why they’re always surprised by peek a boo. Object hidden under blanket equals no object. Ooooh, I hope it's not quite that bad for all the APs! Adult lack of object permanence can be associated with cluster B personality disorders
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 3:17:56 GMT
i think i confuse myself, and overcompensate with APness. haha. i triggered myself into triggering myself!
a thought occurred to me just now... in order to be consistent and loving, i first have to commit to having a life of my own, so that i can share that with others and have a place for others to come and stay in. DAs appear to have a life of their own but they don't really either. The DAs I know never stayed in a place long, nor decorated their houses/offices, nor have a life that's really stable. it might be rich and fulfilling and successful, but there's always this sense that they're not really present. Maybe that's just me - i've always been high functioning and i suppose successful by many standards, with good friends and family. however, i never felt like i had a life of my own, of my own choosing. it's a bizarre feeling. i overcompensate that with making sure my living environment is very comfortable.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 3:32:45 GMT
i think i confuse myself, and overcompensate with APness. haha. i triggered myself into triggering myself! a thought occurred to me just now... in order to be consistent and loving, i first have to commit to having a life of my own, so that i can share that with others and have a place for others to come and stay in. DAs appear to have a life of their own but they don't really either. The DAs I know never stayed in a place long, nor decorated their houses/offices, nor have a life that's really stable. it might be rich and fulfilling and successful, but there's always this sense that they're not really present. Maybe that's just me - i've always been high functioning and i suppose successful by many standards, with good friends and family. however, i never felt like i had a life of my own, of my own choosing. it's a bizarre feeling. i overcompensate that with making sure my living environment is very comfortable. Actually, it's been a neat facet of my growth to really establish my roots in my home and settle in, with an intention to stay. It's also been growth for me to invite people in to my home. I have a very well established and full life of my own, but I'm still working on having someone physically present in my home with me. I am always the one who comes to stay over or visit. It's just habit. My former partner was happy to aee where I live but I didn't invite him until he asked if I was hiding something lol. He was kidding that maybe I am a hoarder or crazy cat lady. It's funny because it kind of made me self conscious that he said that but I was happy to invite him lol. So I still have habits, I always have a little something more to practice. He came to visit me at my office and that was nice too.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 3:34:19 GMT
It’s almost like AP lack the object permanence that young babies lack- that’s why they’re always surprised by peek a boo. Object hidden under blanket equals no object. Ooooh, I hope it's not quite that bad for all the APs! Adult lack of object permanence can be associated with cluster B personality disorders Erpppppppps. i did tell my ex that he might be narcissistic or have narcissistic wounding because of certain things. but then, i actually also think that of myself - alot of things i said about him, I can see in myself, just that it manifested in different ways. i drove myself slightly crazy wondering if I was the narc instead and that perhaps I just wasn't even aware of it.
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Post by faithopelove on Jan 23, 2019 3:35:22 GMT
It’s almost like AP lack the object permanence that young babies lack- that’s why they’re always surprised by peek a boo. Object hidden under blanket equals no object. Ooooh, I hope it's not quite that bad for all the APs! Adult lack of object permanence can be associated with cluster B personality disorders Ha...maybe not to the extreme that a baby lacks object permanence but I see a loose correlation!
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Post by faithopelove on Jan 23, 2019 3:39:17 GMT
i think i confuse myself, and overcompensate with APness. haha. i triggered myself into triggering myself! a thought occurred to me just now... in order to be consistent and loving, i first have to commit to having a life of my own, so that i can share that with others and have a place for others to come and stay in. DAs appear to have a life of their own but they don't really either. The DAs I know never stayed in a place long, nor decorated their houses/offices, nor have a life that's really stable. it might be rich and fulfilling and successful, but there's always this sense that they're not really present. Maybe that's just me - i've always been high functioning and i suppose successful by many standards, with good friends and family. however, i never felt like i had a life of my own, of my own choosing. it's a bizarre feeling. i overcompensate that with making sure my living environment is very comfortable. Actually, it's been a neat facet of my growth to really establish my roots in my home and settle in, with an intention to stay. It's also been growth for me to invite people in to my home. I have a very well established and full life of my own, but I'm still working on having someone physically present in my home with me. I am always the one who comes to stay over or visit. It's just habit. My former partner was happy to aee where I live but I didn't invite him until he asked if I was hiding something lol. He was kidding that maybe I am a hoarder or crazy cat lady. It's funny because it kind of made me self conscious that he said that but I was happy to invite him lol. So I still have habits, I always have a little something more to practice. He came to visit me at my office and that was nice too. shiningstar - Yes! My DA said that he wouldn’t put up any pictures or personal effects in his office bc he wanted to be ready any time to make a quick exit!! This was before I knew about attachment!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 3:41:42 GMT
yes. there's a DA colleague whom I've been having confusing vibes with - he's the one I just went ikea shopping with. I think it's great that he finally found a place he's been happy to stay for abit, and he's said that i can hang out at his place (and never making a move to actually ask me to go!!!). before that, he always came over to my place and sat in the same spot.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 3:50:20 GMT
Ooooh, I hope it's not quite that bad for all the APs! Adult lack of object permanence can be associated with cluster B personality disorders Erpppppppps. i did tell my ex that he might be narcissistic or have narcissistic wounding because of certain things. but then, i actually also think that of myself - alot of things i said about him, I can see in myself, just that it manifested in different ways. i drove myself slightly crazy wondering if I was the narc instead and that perhaps I just wasn't even aware of it. Haha. Narcs never question if they are Narcs- ever occurs to them to consider their own possible problems. You're safe!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 3:54:21 GMT
Erpppppppps. i did tell my ex that he might be narcissistic or have narcissistic wounding because of certain things. but then, i actually also think that of myself - alot of things i said about him, I can see in myself, just that it manifested in different ways. i drove myself slightly crazy wondering if I was the narc instead and that perhaps I just wasn't even aware of it. Haha. Narcs never question if they are Narcs- ever occurs to them to consider their own possible problems. You're safe! lol. yea that's why i figured he's probably more narc than i am, if we even are. but i did read that narc traits exists in insecures, probably because the behaviours and underlying pathology are similiar in nature, but differs in the extent of damage and probably in other factors as well. so sometimes it APPEARS narcissistic but it is not a narc disorder.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 13:29:53 GMT
Ha ha, I completely understand. FA has high anxiety about abandonment and about enmeshment. They can get triggered into panicked anxiety or into shutting down. Their backgrounds usually have more chaos, fear, and more pronounced abuse. They end up a little more inconsistent, ambivalent, and all over the place in regards to knowing what they want (at least when stability factors in). AP tends towards codependent and the fear of enmeshment is more unconscious. It's there, because they're the flip side of emotionally unavailable, and they can get bored or feel put off by someone secure or stable because it feels so unfamiliar and isn't supporting their internal narrative of, I ALWAYS want to be closer to others than they want to be to me. Neither type knows how to accept healthy and stable love, at least not off the bat and without some awareness. So they are more comfortable chasing. But all that's important with your ex in relation to you was, he was insecurely attached, he wasn't willing to reflect and work on it, and he didn't respond in a way that was meeting your needs when you tried to communicate about what sounded like very legitimate issues. It really helped me personally break through the secure barrier to understand all the attachment types, but the anxious healing process is different than the avoidant (and FA has to heal on both sides, which is why it's the most difficult to move into secure). But I am highly empathetic (comes with the factors that created my AP) and I really like knowing how everything ever works -- for me, I was getting less anxious and more secure by just working on the AP, but finally untangling all my relationships by understanding the other side of DA, FA, and secure was a game-changer for me personally. A game-changer that took many, many years! I agree that understanding the other sides is actually a key thing to do (maybe that's because, like you, I've a high need for cognition and empathetic). Alot of APs are like that, and hence there's alot of asking about DAs here (esp in the initial stages of triggers) - which annoys DAs because they're all about focusing on themselves. which actually strikes me as a bit strange - if you don't understand other perspectives, behaviors, and ways of being, how do you actually grow your own repertoire of skills? If i don't ask my ex DA about how he deals with solitude, how would i know what that actually looks like since i've not done it before? it strikes me as supercilious when one does not take the effort to know the other party's perspective thoroughly and what your role is in that. There's another side to this, haha. AP's who are all triggery, asking about their ex DA, begin to interact with DA's here as if the DA poster is their ex. It's difficult and unpleasant to interact with a triggered AP. Projection begins to happen, and before you know it the AP poster is saying everything to the DA poster that they'd like to say to their ex. This can be really hurtful, and totally non-supportive of the DA poster, who is here for their own recovery and has their own intentions for interaction. It happened a couple times on this thread and confused me, I got a little blindsided by the "you" statements you were making at me that sounded accusatory, so I had to clarify and I asked you about it. The whole vibe can feel anti-avoidant, or like self-justification on the AP's part and if anyone is going to knock that down I guess it would be an avoidant. For the most part, though, I see AP, FA, and DA all saying the same to new AP posters,... work on seeing yourself clearly, work on seeing your own issues so you can develop a healthier relationship dynamic and not get tangled up with an avoidant partner, who clearly triggers the heck out of you. Not that there is no value in understanding the other styles. But an over focus on that is part of the AP dilemma, isn't it? Trying to understand and accommodate and focus outward to the detriment of themselves and even to the detriment of their partner? Anyway, for me, there is limited use in trying to figure out an ex, I really prefer a healthier partner that can represent themselves more effectively and eliminate guesswork. Unhealthy attachment security in another person is not so much worth my time and effort to decipher, that's all in the literature. My thing is to keep growing myself and I really don't need to dissect my ex activated AP's actions in order to understand where I struggle. It helps me see where HE struggles but that's not mine to work with, he's got to do that in himself. I already spent enough time with it to be worn out and exhausted by it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 15:55:03 GMT
I kind of wonder, too, and correct me if I'm way off base: Is the AP posting that focuses on an unavailable partner, or an ex partner, a way to stay engaged in the relationship and actively participate in something related to the relationship, when the partner refuses to? Is talking about an ex an trying to figure them out kind of a surrogate or a substitute for actual intimacy that would have the partner explaining themselves and participating in a dialog instead of going through indirect chanels?
It seems like the preoccupation with an unavailable partner or ex partner by new AP is less a way to understand for reasons of personal development, and more a way to hold on and try to accommodate an emotionally absent and physically unavailable partner. Don't shoot me, it's an honest question.
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Post by alexandra on Jan 23, 2019 16:25:15 GMT
@mickey, not consciously. Part of the AP nervous system getting flooded is often rumination, so if triggered it's hard to stop it. That's one way it can manifest.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 16:44:18 GMT
@mickey , not consciously. Part of the AP nervous system getting flooded is often rumination, so if triggered it's hard to stop it. That's one way it can manifest. Gotcha. It all plays out here, I guess. If an AP is stuck in rumination that's when they spend the most time being critical or caretaking of their deactivated or disinterested ex, which is just part of the loop I guess. So in those cases, maybe pointing out they have some work to do to get on top of that rumination is reasonable? And not just being unhelpful? Or is it better to just not engage with it? I could see that it would just be triggering and fruitless if they aren't ready to hear it. Asking for a friend. haha. Anyway, this has been an informative thread but went all over the place, sorry faithopelove!
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Post by unluckyinlove on Jan 23, 2019 19:17:31 GMT
I kind of wonder, too, and correct me if I'm way off base: Is the AP posting that focuses on an unavailable partner, or an ex partner, a way to stay engaged in the relationship and actively participate in something related to the relationship, when the partner refuses to? Is talking about an ex an trying to figure them out kind of a surrogate or a substitute for actual intimacy that would have the partner explaining themselves and participating in a dialog instead of going through indirect chanels? It seems like the preoccupation with an unavailable partner or ex partner by new AP is less a way to understand for reasons of personal development, and more a way to hold on and try to accommodate an emotionally absent and physically unavailable partner. Don't shoot me, it's an honest question. It’s a fair question and makes sense for you to ask. Perhaps it is a way for the AP to continue to hold onto the relationship, but I think more than that, it might just be a way for us to seek that validation we could never fully get within the relationship. In my personal experience, I wasn’t aware of attachment styles and I was left scratching my head as far as what happened and why my boyfriend just left me when the relationship seemed to be going well. I don’t expect him back at this point (and although still healing, pretty close to the belief that I don’t want him back) but I think exploring the FA/DA mind and what “makes them tick”.....the triggers and deactivation methods....has helped give me some closure. It seems that FA/DA’s natural lack of emotional disclosure is very frustrating for an AP who’s natural inclination is FULL emotional disclosure. It comes back to just needing something emotionaly that we aren’t being given. So if we can’t get it from the source itself, we join a forum such as this one. We want to know what others who relate to FA/DA tendencies think. And I do agree with one of your other comments that maybe we can project a little of our own situation on other FA/DA posters in search of the unfulfilled answers in our own life. Many APs seem to have big abandonment fears also, so to be able to assign an “attachment issue” to the breakup is much easier to accept than that there was something wrong with me or with us as a couple. I know that’s how I personally feel because I got absolutely no real closure. I think it was said in another thread that the leaving IS the closure but that’s not enough to satisfy an AP. We need to know that we meant something to our significant other and the FA/DA is usually not going to give us that. We seek validation in the relationship and when we still don’t ever have that need filled, we continue to seek it outside. The need is still there even though the relationship is not!
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