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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2019 3:12:55 GMT
In another thread, I shared a bit about a breakup. My partner pulled a major emotional manipulation over some jealousy and it was a breaking point for me and I knew that I never wanted to be subjected to that kind of blindsiding pain again.
I kind of think that he might be FA but I'm not sure and haven't tried to really analyze that, because whatever his deal is, it didn't work for me because there was so much instability in his mood and communication style.
It was hot/cold and felt manipulative.
About 10 days after the break, after all the fighting and taking leave was done, he let me know that he had my stuff and we could arrange for me to get it. I had attempted to arrange for that early in the breakup but he was super squirrelly about that also, so I told him to just toss it and we could settle it that way. It was just few things and I don't squabble over stuff, breakups suck and that just adds a layer of unnecessary drama and a movie quality sad scene that I don't really need, it's just stuff.
Anyway, he didn't want to have me pick it up while he was gone, because he wanted to sit and talk and reset our relationship to a friendship. I find that inappropriate right after a breakup, and also insensitive to suggest, so I expressed that and told him that a rough guideline for healthy people putting a relationship behind them is about half the length of the relationship, and after that it might be time to be in touch as pals if we both were still amenable. He was pretty persistent which I found rude. I don't know what his real intent was, I took what he said at face value though. He wanted very much to see me and spend some time taking and for me, the timing just wasn't appropriate.
I also said that the behavior he had exhibited to me the last day we were in a relationship wasn't in line with what I value in a friendship, so I would need to take my time and get back in the swing of things in my own life and revisit that later.
So, while I don't want to go deeply into his psyche and what he may be trying at, because really it would just be a guess and whatever it was I wasn't interested in keeping contact right after the breakup.
He's contacted me again and we aren't quite at the time boundary I set. He just wanted to see how I was, etc. Still wanting a friendship. I'm conflicted about that. I don't really trust his intention as he was always kind of clingy, when things were tense during the relationship. For a time I thought just AP - but with further experience with him I think he's likely FA.
Here is my question- If perchance he is FA can I trust that his offer of friendship is actually platonic, or would there be a likelihood he would like to angle for a relationship again? As a light friend we could enjoy some things together and I would be ok with that as we did used to have a lot of fun at some things. He's a good guy but not a good partner for me.
I'm not really interested in deciding quite yet, and there is a feeling I get that it may be more than that for him (not sure, just a weird vibe) and if that's the case then I'd be pissed at more emotional manipulation. I don't want a dating relationship with him and I also don't want to be manipulated.
So, I guess I'm just sharing this because I am annoyed and wondering about possible motives. Of course I have the option of just blocking him but I am trying to work out what I think and feel about this. I don't want to be a total jerk, but ultimately I will go with what feels healthiest and most honest to me. Still trying to understand other styles a little because in the dating pool, there's a lot of insecure people. Thanks if anyone has some insight.
I know this sounds really grumpy of me, maybe me feeling grumpy about it is all the answer I need. And maybe I need to just go to bed. So I'll check back later! Thanks again.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2019 3:14:03 GMT
Oh I guess I posted this in the wrong spot, I am the DA and he is possible FA. But since I'm DA I will leave it here.  |
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Post by alexandra on Feb 10, 2019 3:42:32 GMT
Some of what you wrote mirrors experiences I've had with my FA exes, so you may be onto something there.
I think the issue here is that you broke up with him. You've said you're somewhat secure now, somewhat DA. People who are more avoidant than their FA partners tend to trigger the FA to be anxious. So, if that was already happening, you ending things pushes him into feeling scared, abandoned, unregulated, and there will be some anxious triggering that will make it hard to be just friends until he finds a new attachment figure. If he is FA, even if he doesn't want to be with you either, you may feel some pull in that he still wants your attention and validation, more than a regular friend would.
Also if he's FA, he'll keep cycling. So, it truly is up to you from the standpoint of how much energy are you willing to put in to keeping solid boundaries for yourself to keep things strictly platonic? If you can get to a point where his pulling doesn't matter to you and you're fine with holding your boundaries because the friendship is important to you and the situation doesn't feel annoying, go for it. If you're going to be upset with ambiguous behaviors and mixed signals, then it's totally fair to tell him you need more space for yourself for now, and then check back in with yourself about it later.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2019 6:39:04 GMT
"you ending things pushes him into feeling scared, abandoned, unregulated"
This, he wants to ease it by pulling.
I push for friendship because it doesn't make me feel like I'm being abandoned, which is unbearable to me and not something I can make to go away on my own.
I'd need that in order to even attempt to soothe myself and process the breakup.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2019 8:06:50 GMT
Some of what you wrote mirrors experiences I've had with my FA exes, so you may be onto something there. I think the issue here is that you broke up with him. You've said you're somewhat secure now, somewhat DA. People who are more avoidant than their FA partners tend to trigger the FA to be anxious. So, if that was already happening, you ending things pushes him into feeling scared, abandoned, unregulated, and there will be some anxious triggering that will make it hard to be just friends until he finds a new attachment figure. If he is FA, even if he doesn't want to be with you either, you may feel some pull in that he still wants your attention and validation, more than a regular friend would. Also if he's FA, he'll keep cycling. So, it truly is up to you from the standpoint of how much energy are you willing to put in to keeping solid boundaries for yourself to keep things strictly platonic? If you can get to a point where his pulling doesn't matter to you and you're fine with holding your boundaries because the friendship is important to you and the situation doesn't feel annoying, go for it. If you're going to be upset with ambiguous behaviors and mixed signals, then it's totally fair to tell him you need more space for yourself for now, and then check back in with yourself about it later. I think what triggered him to anxious is his own unaddressed emotional insecurity that he is HUGELY in denial of, rather than someone acting avoidant with him. He claims to have control of his emotions. The triggering incident was another man asking me out and me telling him in a way that demonstrated loyalty, honesty and protection of the relationship from gossip and meddling in a shared environment. If making up stories about another woman and claiming he didn't care if I left him for another man is emotional control and honesty then he really should be fine. (?) It's just unhealthy, this little charade. So, it sounds like this is just a coping mechanism. The chaotic emotional messiness was the biggest source of stress for me inside the relationship. I really don't want to continue that in any form post relationship either, it's just not healthy for me (or for him in reality). It seems to me like an emotional burden being put on me that isn't mine to bear and shows really no empathy for the manipulation and betrayal he inflicted on me. That creates enough ill feeling in me that a friendship would be insincere. I'll just have to decline contact and allow him to find his own sources for health and healing, if he chooses to do that for himself. The relationship had to many highs and lows for me to really consider it viable in the form of a friendship, he wasn't stable and reliable when I needed him most and offered the most. So I have my answer, ultimately this connection is best severed. Thanks, alexandra and @hanana |
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Post by alexandra on Feb 10, 2019 8:39:02 GMT
I think what triggered him to anxious is his own unaddressed emotional insecurity that he is HUGELY in denial of, rather than someone acting avoidant with him. It seems to me like an emotional burden being put on me that isn't mine to bear and shows really no empathy for the manipulation and betrayal he inflicted on me. That creates enough ill feeling in me that a friendship would be insincere. Oh yeah, I wasn't implying you did anything specifically to trigger him at all. It's just bound to happen because he's projecting his own unrelated issues onto his relationship with you, and not yet confronting his own stuff. It's just a different dynamic when a DA dates an FA, because there's a little more natural distance with a DA's independence, so it can kick out the FA tendency to deactivation (if he's FA, then that's why you thought he was possibly AP at first). But part of the unaware FAs pain can be to be very reactionary all the time (triggered anxious or deactivating) without even realizing it. The low empathy from the FA in that situation is often from being afraid and trying to strike out first to protect him/herself, even when there's no actual threat, and that really damages their partner's trust and the foundation for any friendship/relationship. You don't need my validation, but for what it's worth, I agree that the situation can easily result in you getting that emotional burden dumped on you. Trust that gut read if that's what you're feeling, and you don't need to take that on. In my cases, the FAs didn't know how to get their needs met ("disorganized" attachment, no organized strategy to get needs met) so there was a lot of unconscious manipulation and bad communication, with emotional labor getting pushed onto my shoulders. That gets exhausting, even when you care about the person and understand where it's coming from. I've stayed friends with one of the guys because he found a new attachment figure (long-term and committed), and I got over us. He didn't do his work and is still unhappy, but the emotional push-pull looking for self-regulation is no longer taken out on me, so being friends is fine. If we'd been more serious and too much damage had already been done prior to that, friendship wouldn't have worked. |
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Post by alexandra on Feb 10, 2019 8:47:04 GMT
Also, I'm sure he cares about you and it's not all a coping mechanism. But, it's still not your problem to take on.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2019 8:51:19 GMT
I think it's a healthy decision, if you wish to be less annoyed by him, if you didn't - explain your reasoning to him and how his behavior affected you.
As FA, I've never violated boundaries of a secure person, once I understand I'm able to let go because it makes sense.
I wasn't able to do that with DA because even though they might have been right to end it (there was a lot of emotional messiness that you mentioned but both parties were at fault), they were just "done" whenever I had a weak moment that triggered them and it only made me anxious. In my mind it didn't make sense, or it wasn't necessary. I believe it's primary because they've never explained (I think they might have thought they did though). I only knew their decision, and I was left guessing what their thoughts were.
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Post by mrob on Feb 10, 2019 13:54:26 GMT
I’ve cycled, I’ve manipulated and generally caused others, and myself, needless pain. alexandra has it pegged. To say it is plain manipulation, however, implies that it’s a wanton, premeditated act. If he is unaware of the subconscious ruling the conscious, he’s unaware. He has no other way of acting, and won’t change until it causes so much pain that he may seek to do something different. Or he may not. That doesn’t mean it’s your business, though. I hope you see my point. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2019 14:40:02 GMT
I’ve cycled, I’ve manipulated and generally caused others, and myself, needless pain. alexandra has it pegged. To say it is plain manipulation, however, implies that it’s a wanton, premeditated act. If he is unaware of the subconscious ruling the conscious, he’s unaware. He has no other way of acting, and won’t change until it causes so much pain that he may seek to do something different. Or he may not. That doesn’t mean it’s your business, though. I hope you see my point. Right, I understand it's not conscious and intentional manipulation. Regardless, the end result is as you said, needless pain. For both of us. The only stuff that triggered me in this relationship was this- the sudden twists and turns in his communication, the stability and emotional manipulations. Him being threatened by his internal bogeymen resulted in him betraying me somehow- I would get thrown under the bus emotionally. Usually, just when I needed him most. So, I'm glad that I was able to leave when I saw the pattern. I left triggered and that's all I regret- I wish I could have been my best self even in that. I feel good about how I showed up for him, and for me, in the relationship. He was unable to remain consistent or uphold his pledges of loyalty and consistent friendship (much expressed in his AP phase) due to his own emotional instability and the result was stunning and painful. One too many times. I caught it fairly early but have learned some things that I believe can spare me this in the future. Early signs. I am of the firm belief that a person hits bottom when they suffer enough, but that it is truly not my business or place to accompany them there, or to either hasten or soften the landing. I have no idea if he is on a path of awakening eventually or sleepwalking to his grave, all I know I need reciprocity and emotional health in any close relationship. I have accomplished a great deal in my own processes around that and can't settle for the pain of this kind of dynamic. Thanks to all who responded on this thread, it makes sense to me in light of attachment injuries and solidifies my internal sense that this is a relationship I need to put fully behind me to prevent further injury to myself (or him). |
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Post by gummydrop on Feb 10, 2019 17:43:21 GMT
Contrary to some of the advice here, I would say if you know you are DA then you probably left many things unsaid or open to misinterpretation, so perhaps consider writing a letter or otherwise being upfront/vulnerable about what happened from your perspective and what you would like (platonic friends for example). If this person is toxic or unkind then that really isn't possible, but if as you say their actions seemed unintentionally hurtful then I think it would be kind to share some context for them, and healthy for you.
Secure behavior would be to openly share/discuss what happened from your perspective so both of you could grow from that conversation and the process of sorting out unmet needs can be seen as a collaborative goal. Even if you and this partner don't find a way to reconnect on the terms you like, at least you will have done the important work to better yourself for future relationships.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2019 18:46:28 GMT
Contrary to some of the advice here, I would say if you know you are DA then you probably left many things unsaid or open to misinterpretation, so perhaps consider writing a letter or otherwise being upfront/vulnerable about what happened from your perspective and what you would like (platonic friends for example). If this person is toxic or unkind then that really isn't possible, but if as you say their actions seemed unintentionally hurtful then I think it would be kind to share some context for them, and healthy for you. Secure behavior would be to openly share/discuss what happened from your perspective so both of you could grow from that conversation and the process of sorting out unmet needs can be seen as a collaborative goal. Even if you and this partner don't find a way to reconnect on the terms you like, at least you will have done the important work to better yourself for future relationships. Contrary to your assumptions, we had a very candid and open conversation in which I did exactly as you described. He was ultimately able to recognize what he did and how destructive it was, but due to the pattern of his own reactivity I chose to end the relationship because no lasting progress was being made. Your claim that I probably did something or didn't do something might better be framed as a question, rather than this kind of assumption. Probably. |
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Post by gummydrop on Feb 10, 2019 19:22:24 GMT
Contrary to your assumptions, we had a very candid and open conversation in which I did exactly as you described. He was ultimately able to recognize what he did and how destructive it was, but due to the pattern of his own reactivity I chose to end the relationship because no lasting progress was being made. Your claim that I probably did something or didn't do something might better be framed as a question, rather than this kind of assumption. Probably. Why does the suggestion that a DA probably does characteristically DA things seem abrasive to you? Nothing I wrote was personal - I'm just a stranger trying to help. You mentioned in your original post you were "wondering about intentions" - can you see how that might indicate a lack of open communication? Sorry if it felt like a dig but it wasn't. |
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Post by ocarina on Feb 10, 2019 19:43:03 GMT
@nullified - there's a lot of boundary breaking here and I would find that unreasonable too - the boundary is yours to keep - by not interacting further at the moment AND by not getting caught up in his stuff ie second guessing motives and all that.
He has - from what you've posted, behaved in ways that left you feeling understandably uncomfortable more than once and this approach would seem to be another take on this overstepping of the mark. So for the moment I would take your anger as a sign that you are not ready for a friendship - now or perhaps ever.
Just because you've been in a relationship with someone doesn't mean you owe them friendship - particularly if the ending of the relationship has centred around dubious behaviour, lack of trustworthiness etc - qualities that are just as important in a friend as in a partner.
I would take your emotional reaction here as a signal of boundary busting and not start going down the rabbit hole of what he wants or whether he's doing his work or whatever. Sit with the feeling and yourself and the need to do anything about it will pass. Maybe when you're over this point you'll want for whatever reason to make some sort of re connection - but until then it seems his resurfacing, now that all is said and done, isn't helpful for you - and as you mentioned in your last post, it's probably not helpful for him either, in recognising his own part in what's happened.
This may not resonate - so of course feel free to take it with a pinch of salt!
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Post by ocarina on Feb 10, 2019 19:45:19 GMT
And - to add, as a DA I very often don't feel much emotion even when others overstep the mark I tend to sit back and accept or deactivate - so perhaps this glimpse of anger is a sign of progress - welcome it in and tend it with care and it will soon take its leave.
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