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Post by stu on Sept 29, 2019 8:14:18 GMT
I feel you Stu. I was talking to my Boss today about my ex and dealing with his continued abusive behaviour (and in the workplace, his behaviour is very unprofessional as well as personally abusive). My Boss's take was what my ex is doing is gaslighting and trying to make me lose my shit so I look like the bad guy. He arranged some work stuff around so I won't have to interact with him professionally. And yeah, its hard to push away that awful feeling of having your good nature being used, and then treated like trash after  Man, see I want to believe she was not ever abusive or trying to actively hurt me. But lately with things now it's hard not to feel like shes actively trying to hurt me or make me hate her. I understand FAs having their self protection and all that. But other behaviors just don't add up into it at all. So hurtful to feel like I had such a strong connection with this girl and that there was something solid between us, and how I'm being treated now just makes it seem like wtf was all this?and everything now just seems so childish Some people are saying she just used me for attention and once she got enough she was done. Idk. It just makes me doubt what I feel are geniune connections now. I feel a lot more weird about people in general and less trusting over all from the whole experience with her and other people lately and it's affecting how I feel about friendships as well. Like I'm slowly becoming avoidant myself. |
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Post by tnr9 on Sept 29, 2019 18:08:22 GMT
I feel you Stu. I was talking to my Boss today about my ex and dealing with his continued abusive behaviour (and in the workplace, his behaviour is very unprofessional as well as personally abusive). My Boss's take was what my ex is doing is gaslighting and trying to make me lose my shit so I look like the bad guy. He arranged some work stuff around so I won't have to interact with him professionally. And yeah, its hard to push away that awful feeling of having your good nature being used, and then treated like trash after Man, see I want to believe she was not ever abusive or trying to actively hurt me. But lately with things now it's hard not to feel like shes actively trying to hurt me or make me hate her. I understand FAs having their self protection and all that. But other behaviors just don't add up into it at all. So hurtful to feel like I had such a strong connection with this girl and that there was something solid between us, and how I'm being treated now just makes it seem like wtf was all this?and everything now just seems so childish Some people are saying she just used me for attention and once she got enough she was done. Idk. It just makes me doubt what I feel are geniune connections now. I feel a lot more weird about people in general and less trusting over all from the whole experience with her and other people lately and it's affecting how I feel about friendships as well. Like I'm slowly becoming avoidant myself. I think it is worth exploring why her treatment of you has changed your general view of people...and...is it really “her” or is she just a ripple of an underlying issue that stems way, way back in time. When B broke up with me...lots of my guy friends and even some of my girl friends suggested he used me...and I was pissed, really pissed at him...but then....I had own my role in the dynamic. I fell in love so quickly, without really knowing him....I wanted a relationship that I had created in my head..but I never asked B if he shared in that vision....and when he would start distancing or I sensed he wasn’t really about me....I did not address that with him. I think people for the most part are doing the best they can with the hand that person was dealt. I think very few people truly purposefully set out to use another person, but that they have a different vision of what they want and can tolerate as far as being with another person. Now the ball is in your court as far as what to do with that information. It is good to be a bit protective of yourself when it comes to other people...but also remember that you are here...learning about yourself....and you don’t have to take what happened with her and apply it across the board....and it is certainly worth exploring further. Good luck...take care. |
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Post by stu on Sept 29, 2019 21:16:59 GMT
Man, see I want to believe she was not ever abusive or trying to actively hurt me. But lately with things now it's hard not to feel like shes actively trying to hurt me or make me hate her. I understand FAs having their self protection and all that. But other behaviors just don't add up into it at all. So hurtful to feel like I had such a strong connection with this girl and that there was something solid between us, and how I'm being treated now just makes it seem like wtf was all this?and everything now just seems so childish Some people are saying she just used me for attention and once she got enough she was done. Idk. It just makes me doubt what I feel are geniune connections now. I feel a lot more weird about people in general and less trusting over all from the whole experience with her and other people lately and it's affecting how I feel about friendships as well. Like I'm slowly becoming avoidant myself. I think it is worth exploring why her treatment of you has changed your general view of people...and...is it really “her” or is she just a ripple of an underlying issue that stems way, way back in time. When B broke up with me...lots of my guy friends and even some of my girl friends suggested he used me...and I was pissed, really pissed at him...but then....I had own my role in the dynamic. I fell in love so quickly, without really knowing him....I wanted a relationship that I had created in my head..but I never asked B if he shared in that vision....and when he would start distancing or I sensed he wasn’t really about me....I did not address that with him. I think people for the most part are doing the best they can with the hand that person was dealt. I think very few people truly purposefully set out to use another person, but that they have a different vision of what they want and can tolerate as far as being with another person. Now the ball is in your court as far as what to do with that information. It is good to be a bit protective of yourself when it comes to other people...but also remember that you are here...learning about yourself....and you don’t have to take what happened with her and apply it across the board....and it is certainly worth exploring further. Good luck...take care. I don't think she was actually using me, it was obvious she had a lot of defense mechanisms and definitely struggled with obvious FA challenges. I did and always try to communicate with the FA everything that I am feeling and also to discuss what we both are looking for and all the like. However those kinds of conversations always made her uncofrtabke and shut her down , so i never got to really verbally discuss all of that in a matter of fact and straight forward way. Anytime she distanced I addressed it with her but it would cause her to de activate, and my feelings for her and longer time of wanting to be together she told me she felt the same and I felt I could see that too. At the time it was, however after she deactivated recently I think she may have been intentionally a bit more hurtful towards me so she could push me away more. And did things to make it hard to continue tryung. Self sabotage I guess you would call it. I still have strong feelings for her and wish things could have worked out different. But unfortunately now she is just ghosting me, and after the other night I'm pretty off put as well. So it is what it is. But I just feel it's hard to invest or be so open with everyone when I keep getting some bad treatment in return. Not just the FA but other friends who flip flopped on me and started treating me in a way that wasn't cool at all. Although I know it had nothing to do with me then either, they had their own stuff that made them triggered. It still just sucks to be on the receiving end of hurtful stuff all the time. |
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Post by serenity on Sept 29, 2019 22:35:24 GMT
Man, see I want to believe she was not ever abusive or trying to actively hurt me. But lately with things now it's hard not to feel like shes actively trying to hurt me or make me hate her. I understand FAs having their self protection and all that. But other behaviors just don't add up into it at all. So hurtful to feel like I had such a strong connection with this girl and that there was something solid between us, and how I'm being treated now just makes it seem like wtf was all this?and everything now just seems so childish Some people are saying she just used me for attention and once she got enough she was done. Idk. It just makes me doubt what I feel are geniune connections now. I feel a lot more weird about people in general and less trusting over all from the whole experience with her and other people lately and it's affecting how I feel about friendships as well. Like I'm slowly becoming avoidant myself. Its going to be okay Stu; you can still tell good behaviour from bad, and you are very insightful. You're going to learn from this, but the lesson isn't that all people are like her and you can't trust anyone. You're too smart for that. I honestly think its natural to feel mistrustful and withdrawn when you are freshly hurt by someone you loved. I'm just really sorry for your pain and sense of loss right now, it sucks I think a lot of us here struggle with the fact that our loved ones are not calculating or conscious abusers.. Its like the difference between manslaughter and murder... there is a different social and legal penalty depending on intent, even though the victim still winds up dead. Its normal to think of `unintentional' harmful behavior as redeemable, within certain parameters. For example, the drunk driver who kills, is thought to be redeemable if they stop drink driving. To use that analogy, a lot of FA behaviours are like the drink driver who doesn't stop drinking, keeps causing other people harm, and knows very well that they are harming others. So even if you feel sad for their compulsions, and know that causing harm is not their primary intention, they still do it. The social and legal penalty for this scenario is much tougher than in the case where someone attempts to redeem their harmful behavior, even if its tough work. I would LOVE to see my ex truly care about the harm he causes loved ones, and try to redeem himself. He's not mentally ill, he has the power of choice. He finds it easier to stop caring and move on, and my sympathy for that is fairly low at this point. |
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Post by serenity on Sept 29, 2019 23:33:36 GMT
Serenity this is an interesting perspective. The drunk driving analogy made me look at things differently. Someone who knows that their actions hurt people but they still keep doing it. My ex has a tattoo of a scorpion on his arm. When I asked him why, he said it’s because he’s going to keep doing what he does, even if it’s to his detriment. “A scorpion is still a scorpion “, referencing the story of the scorpion and the frog. Yeah wow. That scorpion and the frog story is spot on isn't it? From my perspective, I would consider my ex to be putting in enough effort if he was willing to get treatment for his PTSD and trauma, and communicate respectfully when he needed space. But no way would he ever do that for a woman. Its much more exciting for him to move on, and the world is full of new unsuspecting people. |
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Post by dhali on Sept 30, 2019 18:09:45 GMT
Don’t take too much if it in your shoulders. If they move on, it’s not as if they become tolerant of misunderstandings all of a sudden. Back to the scorpion and frog.... it’s not as if personal development is high on the list of things to do.
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Post by persephone on Oct 5, 2019 2:09:31 GMT
Don’t take too much if it in your shoulders. If they move on, it’s not as if they become tolerant of misunderstandings all of a sudden. Back to the scorpion and frog.... it’s not as if personal development is high on the list of things to do. Some FAs can be very into personal development, but it seems like many do not think there is anything wrong with them (relationship-wise). So they don’t work on attachment issues. Instead, they blame their partners for being “too controlling”, not being “the one”, or longing for a phantom-ex. They just leave them and find someone else. The reality distortion is shocking, but it’s all their subconscious trying to self-sabotage their relationships, because the brain has equated independence with survival. |
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Post by mrob on Oct 5, 2019 14:17:51 GMT
Don’t take too much if it in your shoulders. If they move on, it’s not as if they become tolerant of misunderstandings all of a sudden. Back to the scorpion and frog.... it’s not as if personal development is high on the list of things to do. That's a really good point dhali .... personal development isn't high on their list. What a terrible shame this has degenerated into such generalisations. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2019 16:51:18 GMT
That's a really good point dhali .... personal development isn't high on their list. What a terrible shame this has degenerated into such generalisations. Odd, too... considering the FA in question for one of the posters is taking medicine to try to treat depression... I think it may be that some people don't approve of the autonomous routes some individuals take to addressing their pain, unless it validates their own needs as well. |
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hola
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Post by hola on Oct 9, 2019 16:11:23 GMT
But my question is, do Fearful avoidants also do this in other areas of their lives like family relationships? I know stories of course and experience of romantic. He and I literally are feeling the same thing - why cut someone off completely when we did nothing of harm? Guess we're in the same exact boat after all. Duh! Where does attachment style form in the first place? You don't have the whole picture, so what his brother seems to be a stable man? Do you know how he relates to him? Were they treated equal? Did he feel they treated him equal? How the family dynamic looked like? Were family bonds cultivated? Can he be depressed and isolating himself? I'm FA not only in romantic relationships, it's in everything I do and it doesn't have to be related to fear of rejection, or to people etc. Those are patterns and coping mechanism I learnt in childhood. It could be for example the inability to regulate myself, my emotions, to know what I want and what I need, to know how to ask for something, that I can ask for something. I withdraw/dissociate to soothe myself. I can't be consistent, I get overwhelmed very easily. Staying committed to anything is difficult. The cycles are present in everything I do, basically. I'm FA, and I'm pretty much the same patterns in EVERYTHING I do. It's all based on how you learned to cope and how you were raised. The patterns are in everything, family (this is the core of it all), work relationships, friends, career....even in my fitness routines. It's just that it's a lot more emotionally intense in a romantic relationship. It's like I feel the spotlight is on me and my feelings. And it's a very scary place for me to be in, if that makes sense... My ex FA is also the same. He had the same patterns in everything in his life. |
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Post by dhali on Oct 11, 2019 0:41:37 GMT
That's a really good point dhali .... personal development isn't high on their list. What a terrible shame this has degenerated into such generalisations. I suppose all of those threads with avoidants complaining about the bias against them due to a lack of patients who are avoidant are false then. You can have it both ways if you want. It doesn’t bother me. |
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Post by anapol on Oct 11, 2019 4:40:41 GMT
What a terrible shame this has degenerated into such generalisations. I suppose all of those threads with avoidants complaining about the bias against them due to a lack of patients who are avoidant are false then. You can have it both ways if you want. It doesn’t bother me. When you said "threads with avoidants complaining"--do you mean in the Dismissive Avoidant boards or the Fearful Avoidant boards? Also, when they say lack of avoidant patients, which side of the avoidant spectrum were they referring to? And do they they mean in the world, these forums, or the post history of this forum (i.e., the people who post the most--where on the attachment spectrum do they fall on)? Also, the word "patients", do you mean in therapy and research? P.S. I took time and effort to reply because I am bothered. By the way, caro has apologized after recognizing the generalization. |
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Post by dhali on Oct 11, 2019 18:25:47 GMT
As I said, feel free to have it both ways if that’s what you want. I’m not going to read all the threads again to link them. It’s been fairly well documented on these forums by self proclaimed dismissives here.
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Post by mrob on Oct 12, 2019 5:01:37 GMT
What a terrible shame this has degenerated into such generalisations. I suppose all of those threads with avoidants complaining about the bias against them due to a lack of patients who are avoidant are false then. You can have it both ways if you want. It doesn’t bother me. It’s not personal. None of this is, but because of the nature of intimate relationships, it’s hard to take it any other way. |
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Post by dhali on Oct 12, 2019 6:11:17 GMT
You’re absolutely right. No one is responsible for anything.
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