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Post by dhali on Feb 1, 2020 0:24:44 GMT
That’s right mrob. It’s a dance. The avoidant isn’t dancing alone. The ap is playing the strings. In any disagreement/conflict, any one person owns at least 30% of the fault on average (I can expound on this if need be). Own your part. Ap’s act out of fear. That’s quicksand for any relationship. Even with a secure.
Now avoidants do get crapped on. I think that’s fair though, as their actions (even though not malicious), are ruthless. And well, no surprise, that feels really shitty. And in reality is really shitty. There is no magic malice wand to take that away as much as some want there to be one. Own your crap.
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Post by amber on Feb 1, 2020 0:45:12 GMT
That’s right mrob. It’s a dance. The avoidant isn’t dancing alone. The ap is playing the strings. In any disagreement/conflict, any one person owns at least 30% of the fault on average (I can expound on this if need be). Own your part. Ap’s act out of fear. That’s quicksand for any relationship. Even with a secure. Now avoidants do get crapped on. I think that’s fair though, as their actions (even though not malicious), are ruthless. And well, no surprise, that feels really shitty. And in reality is really shitty. There is no magic malice wand to take that away as much as some want there to be one. Own your crap. I concur. I’m in a painful place at the moment with having to look very hard at the way I contributed to my recent breakup with FA...after months of placing most of the blame on him. Because my actions seemed like Mrob said more “loving and kind” it appears I was less of a problem. However loving and kind was really in the guise of controlling and fearful. The only way to create real change is look at ourselves and be brutally honest with what our patterns are and why we attract and stay in these relationships. |
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Post by serenity on Feb 1, 2020 4:31:15 GMT
He may very well be a narcissist or just have narcissist traits. If he shows up to counseling and is willing to grow, he is not a full blown narc. I know your intentions are well placed, but let’s not do this. There is no evidence this person is a narc. I don’t think narc talk should be in this. This is textbook fa. I’m going to say the controversial statement, but avoidants, in general are not inclined to invest in therapy/themselves that way. Call it blissful willful ignorance. The whole thing is indeed probably doomed, as he is avoidant. There is not much you can do. That’s not to say it’s all his fault. I’d examine yourself and peel back the onion on why you acted certain ways. Was it acting from a place of fear, or a place of love. The anxious side of us pushes us to act from a place of fear. That’s death to a relationship as you place yourself as less than and derive your self worth from outcomes you have little control over. Acting from a place of love would be having a conversation about how your needs are not being met and seeing if you could amicably split as just being incompatible. I think this guy might have sociopathic or Narc traits too. The last major thread about this man was about his pathological lying. Remember the thread when he was hitting onto one of Kibbin's friends via a dating site, telling major lies about himself, the relationship with kibbins, and his dating history? He said he had never loved Kibbins as well, and criticised their sexual relationship (even though he withheld sex for a year). Kibbins you need to have permanent no contact with this guy. He uses you for sex sometimes because he's incapable of relationships, he's a pathological liar (at best), and it sounds like he prowls for sex with other women on dating sites, fuelling his lack of commitment to you. Be nice to yourself and block this person. |
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Post by kibbins on Feb 2, 2020 0:45:40 GMT
Interesting responses here...
So just regarding the therapy part- when we started talking this last time he was the one who suggested therapy and it took awhile to make progress on but we had decided on this coming Wednesday PM. But we stopped talking before I confirmed it with him so he doesn’t have the address. I think i am going to go myself anyway.. I’m a bit torn about whether or not I should say anything to him regarding it whatsoever, last week I felt the session would help me have some clarity even if we were going to end, but it also is just seeming more and more pointless. He does have some expensive cookware of mine I left there last week but I might just consider it a loss. He doesn’t circle back, it has to be initiated by me and I’m tired.
Btw, it was the therapist (my current one, and the new one) who said he sounded like a narc or sociopath. I actually think the new one was barely open to having him in her office.
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Post by kibbins on Feb 2, 2020 1:08:04 GMT
Btw.. I’m FA. I’m typically very avoidant, this is the first time I’ve been triggered anxious with anyone. Although, my relationships with secures never had any bumps, just kind of fizzled out and turned into friendships after living together for years.
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Post by kibbins on Feb 2, 2020 1:29:06 GMT
Do you guys think I should send an email or nothing? Even regarding the therapy, that I decided to go myself? Or it just ends with this flee state?
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Post by alexandra on Feb 2, 2020 1:42:36 GMT
Do you guys think I should send an email or nothing? Even regarding the therapy, that I decided to go myself? Or it just ends with this freeze state? If you send anything, I'd stick with just the appointment time and address and nothing else. But at this point, I think it's better to cut your losses. If he comes back around, get him to give you back the cookware and then don't look back. He's unhealthy and will just delay your progress if you're serious about working on yourself. |
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Post by mrob on Feb 2, 2020 2:27:13 GMT
kibbins, it’s so different being on the opposite end. I, too, had always been Avoidant, but recently have found myself triggered anxious, and doing or at least thinking things APs do here.
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Post by annieb on Feb 2, 2020 6:56:08 GMT
Do you guys think I should send an email or nothing? Even regarding the therapy, that I decided to go myself? Or it just ends with this flee state? I think as a courtesy and as a good human being I would send the appointment time and date. But it will stall your healing and moving on. So it’s up to you. If you want to stall your own healing, text him. If you want to heal and maybe meet someone new you could actually be with, dump him, and go to your own therapy, etc. |
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Post by annieb on Feb 2, 2020 15:08:43 GMT
Personally, if I have a couple weeks of no contact I can easily snap out of the DA dance. And I think what the hell I was thinking??? Being with this person. But the minute I start talking to them, I change and start the same silly dance again of pain and suffering all over again. I only dated one DA, and I it was far easier to get over him than the FAs. There was not much emotional connection anyway, and the dismissiveness to me was a huge turn off as well. No love lost ! Agreed! My last bf vacillated between DA, FA and often AP. He is a narcissist as well. It was just psychotic all around. |
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Post by mrob on Feb 2, 2020 15:46:42 GMT
That’s what a fearful avoidant is. A screwed up mix of AP and DA without the self esteem to pull the DA off. After all, why would anybody want to mess people around like this deliberately!
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Post by alexandra on Feb 2, 2020 19:19:22 GMT
That’s what a fearful avoidant is. A screwed up mix of AP and DA without the self esteem to pull the DA off. After all, why would anybody want to mess people around like this deliberately! I'd argue that it's not "self esteem," it's need for and reliance on external validation to feel okay about themselves. DAs may not actually have high self-esteem either but they don't derive it from other people. |
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Post by mrob on Feb 2, 2020 23:16:42 GMT
That’s a better description alexandra , thanks. |
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Post by nyc718 on Feb 3, 2020 18:25:52 GMT
Understood. But I think telling someone who has an insecure attachment that it takes two is not very helpful. It's because of the deeper unhealed subconscious that makes it hard to leave for many. That's why I was asking for clarification. It's obvious it takes two, but the subconscious isn't operating on the obvious. It is helpful because what happens here is that clearly AP behaviour is seen as “empathic” and “loving”. It gets normalised, where it is not normal at all. It’s a slippery slide that happens within threads over and over again. It’s easy to look at the other party, generally the avoidant, and complain about them. There is some really crap behaviour from all sides, and I won’t sit here and say “Poor thing, he shouldn’t be doing this to you”. There’s no recovery, and no power in that. When I’m saying “it takes two” or “avoidants don’t operate in a vacuum” I’m saying look at yourself. Look at your part in this. Look at your behaviour. Take the focus off them and actually do something that you have control over... the possibility that you can change. I’ll keep saying it. Understood, and thank you. I think we have talked on another thread about being clear and direct in communication, and now that I know clearly what you meant by saying that, I understand. Honestly, just saying it takes two didn't convey all that you explained clearly to me, but I get it. And I agree. |
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Post by amber on Feb 3, 2020 20:08:15 GMT
Very wise words. He told me when we spoke that “it was time for change”, that he wants to deal with his issues as he sees how it affects every area of his life. I asked if he was willing to get help and he said he is “on the verge”...
At first I was upset and annoyed because i thought, now he will go and heal himself after he has left me! And I won’t get any benefit, but then I realised he is always on the verge of of change, but never really changes anything. He told me he even had resistance to booking a massage for himself because he has a huge blockage for reaching out for help (mother never helped him
With anything) . So I think it’s doubtful. I do wonder if partly he broke up with me because he didn’t feel he deserved something good. I read somewhere that avoidants have “a lot of hopefull beginnings, some middles, and not a lot of completions”
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