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Post by tnr9 on May 5, 2020 11:02:24 GMT
Well, just an update. I was feeling anxious about this person I was dating and I was trying to determine if any of it was more indicative of something being "off" or if it was my own internal issues. It was the former. I was right to have some questions. I had a conversation with him about what he was looking for. I had already asked him over text and he gave me a very generic answer, and it indicated to me he wasn't serious or really didn't know what he wanted. I also sensed he was more interested in attraction over compatibility. He said if you have a list of things you're looking for, you always throw that out the window if you're attracted. I told him I disagree with that a lot and that I have walked from men I found attractive. So, over the phone, I asked him again. He joked that he didn't give me a clear enough answer. So he gave me some answers off the top of his head. They were more specific than last time, but kind of the things everyone wants (i.e. someone kind). I asked "well, are you looking for something casual? someone to live with? a companion?" I was frustrated at having to pull it out of him. I felt like I was grilling him. He sort of mimicked my answer. He also joked about everything. While he would ask me some questions about how I tick and seemed a bit curious about me, he didn't ask any serious questions. I didn't feel he was serious. I was right. Today, he told me he was going to focus on pursuing other "people"...not just one person. But I was still welcome to communicate with him, but that he understood if I didn't. He didn't offer friendship, it was like an option. Of course, I kindly told him I don't function that way. I feel like I'm coming off as "frigid" just because I am pursuing something serious and that is very frustrating. I still joked with him and flirted with him a good deal. Regardless, I'm not going to change these standards I have. It's frustrating to come across so many men who want to just have fun and make you out to be crazy if you have relationship goals. He had made fun of women who have lists. I understand the going extreme on that. I generally have three general qualities that I say are must haves. But having nothing is concerning to me at this point in our lives. It is good that you asked him again and found out that he is not looking for something serious like you are. I did not do that with B and truly wish I had. |
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Post by annieb on May 5, 2020 14:37:50 GMT
Wow, this just really goes to show that your instincts were spot on and your anxiety was activated for a good reason. This guy wanted only casual and that you communicated with him and got a clear confirmation, is what we are all trying to do here. I was only a month ago in a very similar situation and the actions spoke volumes that the guy was interested, but then there were little things that indicated to me that the interest in a serious relationship was not genuine. He was blocking me in communication (not literally), went silent for days and pushed some of my boundaries, and only the breakup and his anger and the names he called me revealed that I was right.
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Post by serenity on May 5, 2020 16:59:28 GMT
I was right. Today, he told me he was going to focus on pursuing other "people"...not just one person. But I was still welcome to communicate with him, but that he understood if I didn't. He didn't offer friendship, it was like an option. Of course, I kindly told him I don't function that way. I feel like I'm coming off as "frigid" just because I am pursuing something serious and that is very frustrating. I still joked with him and flirted with him a good deal. Regardless, I'm not going to change these standards I have. It's frustrating to come across so many men who want to just have fun and make you out to be crazy if you have relationship goals. He had made fun of women who have lists. I understand the going extreme on that. I generally have three general qualities that I say are must haves. But having nothing is concerning to me at this point in our lives. Lol that he suggested you're still "welcome" to stroke his ego while he plays the field. I'd suggest being real careful with your interactions with him now, and try to cut him off if you can. Although he demonstrated he's not interested in serious relationships, sometimes when guys suggest that they have interest in other women/ have lots of options, it can make women want to pursue them anyway. He put you on the back foot by suggesting you're noone uniquely special to him, that there are "others", and that your needs are silly. Then you flirted with him a lot, when the more self-protective reaction should have been to act a lot cooler. What probably happened is his devaluation of you and your needs had the effect of drawing you in, and made you seek his validation. This is why you must consider cutting him off now, so you don't get reeled into a very degrading and painful game. They say the dating pool in your 40's is full of guys like this, and you did well asking the hard questions sooner rather than later. Congrats that your instincts are spot on, you did good Alice! |
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Post by serenity on May 5, 2020 17:18:48 GMT
Wow, this just really goes to show that your instincts were spot on and your anxiety was activated for a good reason. This guy wanted only casual and that you communicated with him and got a clear confirmation, is what we are all trying to do here. I was only a month ago in a very similar situation and the actions spoke volumes that the guy was interested, but then there were little things that indicated to me that the interest in a serious relationship was not genuine. He was blocking me in communication (not literally), went silent for days and pushed some of my boundaries, and only the breakup and his anger and the names he called me revealed that I was right. That's so awful annieb, I'm sorry you went through that recently, especially the part where he called you names. I've seen similar reactions from manipulative guys when I've asked for clarification about their intentions, including the anger. I suppose women with good boundaries get in the way of how they would like the world to be.. an abundance of sexual opportunities, with none of the responsibility or care. There are MUCH better men out there thankfully. Hugs! <3 |
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Post by annieb on May 5, 2020 18:31:51 GMT
Wow, this just really goes to show that your instincts were spot on and your anxiety was activated for a good reason. This guy wanted only casual and that you communicated with him and got a clear confirmation, is what we are all trying to do here. I was only a month ago in a very similar situation and the actions spoke volumes that the guy was interested, but then there were little things that indicated to me that the interest in a serious relationship was not genuine. He was blocking me in communication (not literally), went silent for days and pushed some of my boundaries, and only the breakup and his anger and the names he called me revealed that I was right. That's so awful annieb, I'm sorry you went through that recently, especially the part where he called you names. I've seen similar reactions from manipulative guys when I've asked for clarification about their intentions, including the anger. I suppose women with good boundaries get in the way of how they would like the world to be.. an abundance of sexual opportunities, with none of the responsibility or care. There are MUCH better men out there thankfully. Hugs! <3 Thank you! I don't mind the men having the opportunities for sex and want them to have anything their hearts desire, as long us they don't involve me in their schemas  But I guess it's impossible to tell at the beginning, who would do what, and who is lying and who is telling the truth. It's lead me to my FA tendencies for sure. |
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alice
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Post by alice on May 5, 2020 19:59:34 GMT
He put you on the back foot by suggesting you're noone uniquely special to him, that there are "others", and that your needs are silly. Then you flirted with him a lot, when the more self-protective reaction should have been to act a lot cooler. What probably happened is his devaluation of you and your needs had the effect of drawing you in, and made you seek his validation. This is why you must consider cutting him off now, so you don't get reeled into a very degrading and painful game. No no no, you misunderstood. I did not flirt with him AFTER he told me this. I was expressing a general statement that I feel interpreted as frigid for wanting a serious relationship despite having flirted with him a lot in our interactions. My response to him...he understood that I was saying goodbye. |
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alice
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Post by alice on May 5, 2020 20:01:18 GMT
Wow, this just really goes to show that your instincts were spot on and your anxiety was activated for a good reason. This guy wanted only casual and that you communicated with him and got a clear confirmation, is what we are all trying to do here. I was only a month ago in a very similar situation and the actions spoke volumes that the guy was interested, but then there were little things that indicated to me that the interest in a serious relationship was not genuine. He was blocking me in communication (not literally), went silent for days and pushed some of my boundaries, and only the breakup and his anger and the names he called me revealed that I was right. Yeah I have encountered this too. The hate comes out when you express what YOU want. No wonder women have issues expressing what they want/need. |
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Post by annieb on May 5, 2020 20:15:58 GMT
Wow, this just really goes to show that your instincts were spot on and your anxiety was activated for a good reason. This guy wanted only casual and that you communicated with him and got a clear confirmation, is what we are all trying to do here. I was only a month ago in a very similar situation and the actions spoke volumes that the guy was interested, but then there were little things that indicated to me that the interest in a serious relationship was not genuine. He was blocking me in communication (not literally), went silent for days and pushed some of my boundaries, and only the breakup and his anger and the names he called me revealed that I was right. Yeah I have encountered this too. The hate comes out when you express what YOU want. No wonder women have issues expressing what they want/need. Thank you! I guess some of them are so busy pushing their agenda that it's hard for them to grasp that a woman is a human being also in that relationship. It's a lot of disrespect and I am sure their are dealing with their past trauma, etc, etc., but I guess it just comes out very aggressive. I am no longer on OLD just to limit my interactions with men, because I feel like I was unnecessarily exposing myself to some of this. Not that I have that much better luck IRL dating, but I guess there is less volume. |
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Post by serenity on May 5, 2020 20:17:40 GMT
He put you on the back foot by suggesting you're noone uniquely special to him, that there are "others", and that your needs are silly. Then you flirted with him a lot, when the more self-protective reaction should have been to act a lot cooler. What probably happened is his devaluation of you and your needs had the effect of drawing you in, and made you seek his validation. This is why you must consider cutting him off now, so you don't get reeled into a very degrading and painful game. No no no, you misunderstood. I did not flirt with him AFTER he told me this. I was expressing a general statement that I feel interpreted as frigid for wanting a serious relationship despite having flirted with him a lot in our interactions. My response to him...he understood that I was saying goodbye. Oh Sorry for misunderstanding. I'm relieved to hear you say that <3 Strange how some people see flirting as making an offer you didn't make. To me flirting conveys attraction only, and is not a proposal for anything specific. |
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Post by annieb on May 5, 2020 20:37:54 GMT
I think the most balanced approach is to really focus on ourselves and our lives and literally stop needing it or looking for it. It would make us secure and detached and we could potentially suss out the liars early. And if someone comes along, who can over time prove with consistent behavior that they are the one, only then would we become comfortable and start a relationship with them. I used to think that that is distrustful, but it really isn't. It's actually respectful. It gives space to the person to show us who they are.
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Post by alexandra on May 5, 2020 21:28:14 GMT
Honestly, I think the easiest way to do this is take things pretty slowly physically. Not completely withhold affection or not even kiss or make out a little, but space dates out a bit (like once a week the first month), and focus heavily on activities that allow you to talk a lot and get to know each other.
And it's not even about distrust or protecting yourself from jumping in if you'd be upset / disappointed etc if you found out the guy wasn't who you thought after only a short time. It's really about seeing how they respond to you not jumping right in to physical stuff. I've noticed that as I've gotten older, these guys who want to play around tend to have no patience for any waiting at all. I mean literally even a few days, not even talking about making them wait for weeks or months. Most who are still single older because they're non-committal don't even want to put real effort in to winning you over if they're getting their physical needs met right away (which might be as capable as they are of intimacy). It's not about the long-time chase for them, just connecting through instant gratification.
I've had a lot of guys approach me for a more sexual relationship in the last year, and it's been really enlightening to see if they respond to my saying not yet as I'm looking for something more serious in a respectful way or as a spoiled brat rejection. Some of these men I've known for years but we were never romantically connected. I'll tell you, the ones who responded like adults I still talk to even if nothing more ever happened, and the ones who were entitled and insulted... I lost all respect for and would never recommend anyone I know date them either. And I certainly didn't continue seeing them or ever sleep with them.
The pandemic has made safe dating slow down to way too much of a crawl for my taste, but it's interesting that I'm still seeing the same results in regards to filtering out who is really interested in getting to know me. Being forced to not get physical has allowed a lot of space to observe consistency and build trust. However, this is also paired with talking early about what we both want, and so choosing to get to know someone I started on the same page as as well (and then observing if their words and actions align).
But it's more about approaching with openness and curiosity, and really listening not hearing what you want to hear, than starting with distrust until shown otherwise.
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Post by alexandra on May 5, 2020 21:34:35 GMT
Also, if I feel any confusion, something's going on with the guy. Most likely he has an insecure attachment style. I'm finding dating securely attached guys is super easy and straightforward, and distrust doesn't feel like an issue. So if it's there, and you're not projecting it out of your own issues, then you're probably right to follow your feeling on it.
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Post by alexandra on May 5, 2020 23:24:03 GMT
alice, no it's not the answer on its own, that's why I mentioned I've also spoken to each about what he thinks he's looking for before continuing to get to know them. But it is an early and easy red flag to gauge. And yes, I recognized you were trying to sort out what your gut was saying and where it was coming from (you or him or both). Super important to practice doing that if you're trying to get more secure. It was a big contributor to my progress when I started really introspecting about that when I felt triggered. I even remember the first major time I did it, when my FA now ex basically asked me if I wanted to meet his phantom ex! I did not. But I remember parsing through it mostly being my own issue, and I believe that was 4 years ago when I was barely getting started on insecure attachment awareness.
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Post by mrob on May 6, 2020 0:37:05 GMT
There’s the problem.... trusting one’s gut. We’re here for attachment issues, often stemming from childhood. Deep rooted issues. This is about doing something different.
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Post by alexandra on May 6, 2020 0:51:31 GMT
But it's more about approaching with openness and curiosity, and really listening not hearing what you want to hear, than starting with distrust until shown otherwise. Yes, alice, this is actually typical for all insecure attachment approaches, which is why I keep repeating this above. Avoidant approach out of distrust of others and assume bad intentions. Anxious do the same, but it comes from a different place. Generally speaking, AP / anxious-leaning FA tend to pick more avoidant partners over and over so keep getting hurt from attachment styles clashing but blame themselves. So it's not starting from distrust, but it's believing they don't deserve love (and seeing partner as better than self), so they distrust the situation and are always waiting for the other shoe to drop. But this means all insecure types, DA, FA, and AP can (and often do) first hear things through their own lens instead of objectively hearing what was actually said and seeing the other person for who they really are. Which, I used to do as well for most of my life without realizing it. But you taking the step to recognize that you are doing that, are being self-aware and trying to slow down the knee-jerk pattern and think about it is a really great step, even if it doesn't seem like much. And it's the first step to sorting out what are actually ingrained dysfunctional thought patterns and reconditioning them, no matter their original source. Also tangent to the thread -- I couldn't have handled meeting his phantom ex then (and he was totally distancing the day he brought that up, and it was very messed up that he suggested it), but now that I understand attachment styles and have hypothesized that she's very DA plus he and I are so long over, I'd be super curious to see the truth of who she is versus how he described her! She ended up marrying some other guy who looks exactly like him lmao, so I have a feeling their relationship was a blowup of them both running in toxic pattern circles. I'm still close friends with him (after much time and lots of work), and he's FA as ever. It's interesting, the big difference in how I responded to him when AP versus as secure, since he acts exactly the same. Like, I can see how in retrospect I must have been so much less emotionally stable to have him as a partner being the ying to my yang, or whatever, even though I wasn't aware of it until we got back together and broke up again. |
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But I guess it's impossible to tell at the beginning, who would do what, and who is lying and who is telling the truth. It's lead me to my FA tendencies for sure. 