Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 17, 2021 13:59:54 GMT
True. Whether she seeks help or not is totally up to her. But projecting her mental illness on me is just wrong. This is what confuses me though...this is the second woman you have been with who has gaslighted you. Aren’t you curious to explore why you are attracted to these women? When I was with the NPD that I “dated” for 3 years (he broke up with me 3 times and then after begging and pleading took me back)....my therapist was crucial at pointing out where he was gaslighting me. Who knows if I would have had the courage to stop the carousel and burn up my NPD partner card if it was not for her. Congratulations on your courage to stop the carousel and burn up your NPD partner card tnr9!! 😃 I love the way you put that. No one takes the card away, you have to outgrow it, right? That's quite an accomplishment and I hope you find happy love and connection! |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on May 17, 2021 14:25:31 GMT
This is what confuses me though...this is the second woman you have been with who has gaslighted you. Aren’t you curious to explore why you are attracted to these women? When I was with the NPD that I “dated” for 3 years (he broke up with me 3 times and then after begging and pleading took me back)....my therapist was crucial at pointing out where he was gaslighting me. Who knows if I would have had the courage to stop the carousel and burn up my NPD partner card if it was not for her. Congratulations on your courage to stop the carousel and burn up your NPD partner card tnr9 !! 😃 I love the way you put that. No one takes the card away, you have to outgrow it, right? That's quite an accomplishment and I hope you find happy love and connection! Thank you....honestly....without therapy...I am sure I would have just been attracted to yet another NPD because after all the gaslighting, love bombing and then tearing me down etc. my body and spirit had adjusted to this “type” of relationship. He actually reached out to me a few years back wanting to rekindle things....I never answered him. There is a fantastic website called..it’s all about him (they have a section called it’s all about her). I took a 6 week course called the path forward...one of our tasks was to write down an “I will remember” list..here is mine. My What I will Remember list: I will remember that everything is not my fault. I will remember to trust my instincts. I will remember to step back when I have a "strong attraction" to a guy. I will remember that Narcs will always be my weakness and they will always feel like the answer to my wounds. I will remember that I am worthy of an equal partner, although I am sufficient on my own. I will remember that some conditions cannot be fixed by enough love or caring or empathy. I will remember to keep my life "full" of things outside my relationship (such as exercize, friends, activitities, hobbies etc). I will remember that if something seems too good to be true...it often is! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 17, 2021 15:16:32 GMT
Congratulations on your courage to stop the carousel and burn up your NPD partner card tnr9 !! 😃 I love the way you put that. No one takes the card away, you have to outgrow it, right? That's quite an accomplishment and I hope you find happy love and connection! Thank you....honestly....without therapy...I am sure I would have just been attracted to yet another NPD because after all the gaslighting, love bombing and then tearing me down etc. my body and spirit had adjusted to this “type” of relationship. He actually reached out to me a few years back wanting to rekindle things....I never answered him. There is a fantastic website called..it’s all about him (they have a section called it’s all about her). I took a 6 week course called the path forward...one of our tasks was to write down an “I will remember” list..here is mine. My What I will Remember list: I will remember that everything is not my fault. I will remember to trust my instincts. I will remember to step back when I have a "strong attraction" to a guy. I will remember that Narcs will always be my weakness and they will always feel like the answer to my wounds. I will remember that I am worthy of an equal partner, although I am sufficient on my own. I will remember that some conditions cannot be fixed by enough love or caring or empathy. I will remember to keep my life "full" of things outside my relationship (such as exercize, friends, activitities, hobbies etc). I will remember that if something seems too good to be true...it often is! Very wise, very insightful and very strong. Some people get caught in the word "attraction"... Like, how can I be attracted to a Narc? Nobody consciously wants to be abused and it's not like that right? It's unconscious, subconscious stuff. Narcs don't gain their prey by only displaying abhorrent behavior- there are seemingly real qualities, traits, vulnerabilities that appeal to a partner who isn't able to balance that draw with the reality of other things they are seeing. In other words, it seems that the target ignores their own intuition or feelings because of self doubt that needs to be recognized and healed up. So getting help doesn't mean admitting one is pathological themselves, it means discovering the holes in their own self esteem, logic, emotional fabric that allow the seduction of the narc in the first place. I love your list. It seems you have really gained a lot from your efforts to heal your own emotional traumas. |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on May 17, 2021 16:47:18 GMT
Thank you....honestly....without therapy...I am sure I would have just been attracted to yet another NPD because after all the gaslighting, love bombing and then tearing me down etc. my body and spirit had adjusted to this “type” of relationship. He actually reached out to me a few years back wanting to rekindle things....I never answered him. There is a fantastic website called..it’s all about him (they have a section called it’s all about her). I took a 6 week course called the path forward...one of our tasks was to write down an “I will remember” list..here is mine. My What I will Remember list: I will remember that everything is not my fault. I will remember to trust my instincts. I will remember to step back when I have a "strong attraction" to a guy. I will remember that Narcs will always be my weakness and they will always feel like the answer to my wounds. I will remember that I am worthy of an equal partner, although I am sufficient on my own. I will remember that some conditions cannot be fixed by enough love or caring or empathy. I will remember to keep my life "full" of things outside my relationship (such as exercize, friends, activitities, hobbies etc). I will remember that if something seems too good to be true...it often is! Very wise, very insightful and very strong. Some people get caught in the word "attraction"... Like, how can I be attracted to a Narc? Nobody consciously wants to be abused and it's not like that right? It's unconscious, subconscious stuff. Narcs don't gain their prey by only displaying abhorrent behavior- there are seemingly real qualities, traits, vulnerabilities that appeal to a partner who isn't able to balance that draw with the reality of other things they are seeing. In other words, it seems that the target ignores their own intuition or feelings because of self doubt that needs to be recognized and healed up. So getting help doesn't mean admitting one is pathological themselves, it means discovering the holes in their own self esteem, logic, emotional fabric that allow the seduction of the narc in the first place. I love your list. It seems you have really gained a lot from your efforts to heal your own emotional traumas. I agree...and I would dare to even call it an unconscious attraction to the “familiar”...the unconscious recognizes something in the Narc that ties back to a prior wound...and there is enough “difference” for it to seem possible that the wound will be fixed by being with this Narc. It really does require going “inward” and healing that wound to stop the cycle. Also, it was very important for me to see both what attracted me to him and what hurt me in order to have a whole picture of things. Narcs are attracted to people with great empathy because they know that a person with deep empathy will stick around longer. Having great empathy is actually an amazing trait when it is used to help others but it has to be protected against being abused by someone with narcissistic characteristics. I had to finally admit that I could never fully understand E and being bitter at him was in the long run, not going to lead me towards a more suitable partner. Only putting in the work to heal my own trauma would lead me to make better choices. |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on May 17, 2021 17:00:24 GMT
Hey dullboat123 ..... You might want to write a “good bye letter”......that is what I did, although I never sent it. It was one of my assignments from class. Goodbye Mr. N First, I want to thank you for ending things with me because I did not have the strength to end things with you. During our last round, you validated all the traits that I knew you had, but were hoping you did not. You were still controlling, still unhappy and bitter, still all about yourself and still needing so much validation that I was drained after every encounter. You kept me at arms length, feeding me occational bread crumbs. But I'm not a bird!! I don't hold any ill will towards you...I simply recognize now what I failed to appreciate after round 1, that you are truly disordered. No amount of love or caring or empathy will change that. And as much as you mirror the wounds from my childhood, I cannot fix those wounds with you. In fact, being with you magnified all those insecurities from my past...I was never as weak, never as scared of losing someone and never so afraid of putting myself first as I was with you. I ask that you simply move on with your life and let me move on with mine. I have no desire to rekindle what we had..but I will use our time together to strenthen my resolve to never again be involved with someone who is unable to be an equal partner. I will put all memories of you squarely where they belong, in the past. As Sara Bareilles song goes: "I hate to break it to you babe, but I'm not drowning. There's no one here to save". Goodbye. |
|
|
|
Post by dullboat123 on May 17, 2021 22:49:49 GMT
This is what confuses me though...this is the second woman you have been with who has gaslighted you. Aren’t you curious to explore why you are attracted to these women? When I was with the NPD that I “dated” for 3 years (he broke up with me 3 times and then after begging and pleading took me back)....my therapist was crucial at pointing out where he was gaslighting me. Who knows if I would have had the courage to stop the carousel and burn up my NPD partner card if it was not for her. First of all, they do not all share the same identical traits. Second of all, as Jeb mentioned in his article about dismissive avoidants - "In dating, avoidants can be charming and have learned all the social graces—they often know how they are expected to act in courtship and can play the role well for a time.". And that's the thing, the pain isn't jarring and sudden. Its slow and gradual. In the beginning, we were great. I'm not talking about the honeymoon period. I'm talking about 1.5 years of sweetness and then as avoidants do, they pull the rug from under you and you're completely blindsided. I was receiving therapy for the past year where she was "working" on fixing the relationship, even my personal therapist and our couple therapist did not pick up that she was gaslighting me. It all was revealed when she put the blame solely on me when it is clear that her mental health is deteriorating by the day even without me. I am having minimum contact with her and contact is totally in her control. She choses when to text me (never calls) and when to come see me. I did not force her at all while showing as much empathy and patience as I've learnt while focusing on myself. |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on May 18, 2021 2:12:42 GMT
This is what confuses me though...this is the second woman you have been with who has gaslighted you. Aren’t you curious to explore why you are attracted to these women? When I was with the NPD that I “dated” for 3 years (he broke up with me 3 times and then after begging and pleading took me back)....my therapist was crucial at pointing out where he was gaslighting me. Who knows if I would have had the courage to stop the carousel and burn up my NPD partner card if it was not for her. First of all, they do not all share the same identical traits. Second of all, as Jeb mentioned in his article about dismissive avoidants - "In dating, avoidants can be charming and have learned all the social graces—they often know how they are expected to act in courtship and can play the role well for a time.". And that's the thing, the pain isn't jarring and sudden. Its slow and gradual. In the beginning, we were great. I'm not talking about the honeymoon period. I'm talking about 1.5 years of sweetness and then as avoidants do, they pull the rug from under you and you're completely blindsided. I was receiving therapy for the past year where she was "working" on fixing the relationship, even my personal therapist and our couple therapist did not pick up that she was gaslighting me. It all was revealed when she put the blame solely on me when it is clear that her mental health is deteriorating by the day even without me. I am having minimum contact with her and contact is totally in her control. She choses when to text me (never calls) and when to come see me. I did not force her at all while showing as much empathy and patience as I've learnt while focusing on myself. Perhaps you did not read...but I was involved with a full blown NPD for 3 years...so I know all about the slow burn and the initial happy moments...you aren’t teaching me anything I do not already know...and if she gaslighted you...then she isn’t just a dismissive avoidant...she has traits of a narcissist. Completely different character....as I have dated avoidant leaning FAs and have never been “gaslighted”. I was only ever gaslighted by the NPD. Why have any contact at all? Why interact with someone who has abused you? I went three rounds, I learned all the tricks...he never changed. I had to take care of me by cutting ties. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 18, 2021 3:02:23 GMT
First of all, they do not all share the same identical traits. Second of all, as Jeb mentioned in his article about dismissive avoidants - "In dating, avoidants can be charming and have learned all the social graces—they often know how they are expected to act in courtship and can play the role well for a time.". And that's the thing, the pain isn't jarring and sudden. Its slow and gradual. In the beginning, we were great. I'm not talking about the honeymoon period. I'm talking about 1.5 years of sweetness and then as avoidants do, they pull the rug from under you and you're completely blindsided. I was receiving therapy for the past year where she was "working" on fixing the relationship, even my personal therapist and our couple therapist did not pick up that she was gaslighting me. It all was revealed when she put the blame solely on me when it is clear that her mental health is deteriorating by the day even without me. I am having minimum contact with her and contact is totally in her control. She choses when to text me (never calls) and when to come see me. I did not force her at all while showing as much empathy and patience as I've learnt while focusing on myself. Perhaps you did not read...but I was involved with a full blown NPD for 3 years...so I know all about the slow burn and the initial happy moments...you aren’t teaching me anything I do not already know...and if she gaslighted you...then she isn’t just a dismissive avoidant...she has traits of a narcissist. Completely different character....as I have dated avoidant leaning FAs and have never been “gaslighted”. I was only ever gaslighted by the NPD. Why have any contact at all? Why interact with someone who has abused you? I went three rounds, I learned all the tricks...he never changed. I had to take care of me by cutting ties. I don't know if you have read the back story but I finally did. He came here as a self proclaimed love addicted AP involved in a toxic anxious/avoidant relationship. (Actually she had broken up and was involved with someone else at that time, if I understand correctly. He was dealing with the anxious preoccupation that followed the breakup, and had identified clearly a long list of avoidant traits that rendered the relationship unhealthy in his views. However they had things in common and he wanted it to work. In the time that has passed since November 2020 till now, he's been battling to get her back after she broke up (that has happened numerous times). She broke up again and know he feels he is basically secure and has accomplished a lot in therapy, and she is a narc or an avoidant which are basically the same in his view , if I read him correctly. He also uses the terms FA, narc, dismissive avoidant interchangeably, although several people have tried to illuminate some key differences. It seems that there may be some confirmation bias happening, I don't know. At any rate, I just skimmed the earlier posts and didn't know if you had commented on them and already knew this backstory. That might make things more clear? |
|
|
|
Post by dullboat123 on May 21, 2021 5:08:29 GMT
Seen a psychiatrist today after a referral from my family doctor. The psychiatrist confirmed she is a toxic b**ch and that she is gaslighting me after receiving reports from my psychologists. The psychiatrist also mentioned that I am not to blame for her depression and avoidant personality. I am just reacting to her abuses.
|
|
simon
New Member
Posts: 46
|
Post by simon on May 21, 2021 9:10:04 GMT
That's great news, dullboat. It sounds like the very confirmation you need to be thankful that you dodged a bullet, and can now fully move on with your own life in the healthiest way possible and continue your therapy and healing so it never happens again.
|
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on May 21, 2021 13:16:15 GMT
Seen a psychiatrist today after a referral from my family doctor. The psychiatrist confirmed she is a toxic b**ch and that she is gaslighting me after receiving reports from my psychologists. The psychiatrist also mentioned that I am not to blame for her depression and avoidant personality. I am just reacting to her abuses. I am glad you saw a psychiatrist....but no one here ever thought that you were responsible for her depression or her being avoidant. Thinking you might be is enmeshment..and yes...it is common for partners of narcissists to feel that way. Did you speak to him about what are the next steps for your healing journey? Have you stopped seeing/communicating with her? |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on May 23, 2021 19:55:00 GMT
I came across this song recently...I played it often as things fell apart with the narcissist. Change out the adjectives...but I think it fits.... www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5IIgxfX9cQ |
|
|
|
Post by dullboat123 on May 23, 2021 23:07:31 GMT
That's great news, dullboat. It sounds like the very confirmation you need to be thankful that you dodged a bullet, and can now fully move on with your own life in the healthiest way possible and continue your therapy and healing so it never happens again. Thanks Simon. Though I still mourn the relationship and still dreamt about her last night (it was quite symbolic actually), I now know that the relationship will never work because even when we're in the relationship, she is doing the bare minimum. As avoidants do, they want the connection but is constantly keeping their distance so even if I get used to her ways, our child will definitely suffer. I'm not going to raise a child like a single parent...again. |
|
|
|
Post by dullboat123 on May 23, 2021 23:40:33 GMT
I am glad you saw a psychiatrist....but no one here ever thought that you were responsible for her depression or her being avoidant. Thinking you might be is enmeshment..and yes...it is common for partners of narcissists to feel that way. Did you speak to him about what are the next steps for your healing journey? Have you stopped seeing/communicating with her? No I know that I am not responsible for her depression (though she tried to pin it on me) and avoidant nature. However I was made to feel that my reaction to her abuse is my fault. The psychiatrist said it is not exactly my fault because I was being severely manipulated and gaslighted. The psychiatrist saw my reports for that amount of therapy I did concurrently with 2 therapist and from the way I talked to him (I told him my whole life), he said I am already on the right track and he won't see me till a much later date because I am operating quite normally now. He did commented that being an army officer and in leadership roles in the swimming team and now working life, played a big part in his assessment of me that I am normal and can cope with my childhood trauma without any issues. She made it to be all my fault and as usual, blocked me everywhere on the drop of a hat. She does that even to her own biological mother. What chance do I have? As Jeb said before, avoidants tend to hurt the people closest to them. I don't wish her all the best. Matter of fact, I wish her the worst because she needs to wake up and OWN her issues before she abuses anyone else. Abusers/narcissists don't deserve to be happy. I have nothing against the avoidants on here because they are AWARE and are working on themselves. My ex and perhaps a larger fraction of them are still unaware and harming people out there. Or in the case as my ex, is just too arrogant to admit she has an issue. |
|
|
|
Post by tnr9 on May 24, 2021 3:14:09 GMT
I am glad you saw a psychiatrist....but no one here ever thought that you were responsible for her depression or her being avoidant. Thinking you might be is enmeshment..and yes...it is common for partners of narcissists to feel that way. Did you speak to him about what are the next steps for your healing journey? Have you stopped seeing/communicating with her? No I know that I am not responsible for her depression (though she tried to pin it on me) and avoidant nature. However I was made to feel that my reaction to her abuse is my fault. The psychiatrist said it is not exactly my fault because I was being severely manipulated and gaslighted. The psychiatrist saw my reports for that amount of therapy I did concurrently with 2 therapist and from the way I talked to him (I told him my whole life), he said I am already on the right track and he won't see me till a much later date because I am operating quite normally now. He did commented that being an army officer and in leadership roles in the swimming team and now working life, played a big part in his assessment of me that I am normal and can cope with my childhood trauma without any issues. She made it to be all my fault and as usual, blocked me everywhere on the drop of a hat. She does that even to her own biological mother. What chance do I have? As Jeb said before, avoidants tend to hurt the people closest to them. I don't wish her all the best. Matter of fact, I wish her the worst because she needs to wake up and OWN her issues before she abuses anyone else. Abusers/narcissists don't deserve to be happy. I have nothing against the avoidants on here because they are AWARE and are working on themselves. My ex and perhaps a larger fraction of them are still unaware and harming people out there. Or in the case as my ex, is just too arrogant to admit she has an issue. Logically speaking...a job, regardless of if it is an army officer, a lawyer, a psychiatrist etc cannot address the wounds from childhood. It can certainly “mask” wounds...but does not heal them. Healing inner wounds requires inner work...while jobs are just performance based. 🤷🏻♀️ Since this thread is still focused on being “all about how bad she is” with no consideration at all for any inner healing you might want to do...I will disengage. I wish you all the best. |
|
