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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2024 2:50:52 GMT
Ok I was just checking because you mentioned him stepping up when you asked him you and you feeling more connected to him as a result. In light if the whole situation I was like "huh?" It just sounded like you were somehow romanticizing this exchange. It's all a learning process for sure.
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Post by cherrycola on Apr 28, 2024 3:02:20 GMT
Yeah, I can see why it comes across that way, I am not sure if romanticizing is the right word, but I am trying to practice noticing when someone "gets it right" and shows up, because I was really good at only seeing all the negative before. And for his part, he is always so appreciative that I see all the ways he cares, when his exes would just blow up on him. But honestly, I can see why they blew up. If this is the new and improved better communicator version of him, then... yeah. Paired with an AP, not good. Instead I catch it, and defuse it, but at a cost to myself.
He is actively working to stop projecting past hurts on me, I see it. He watches the videos, he reads the resources etc. He has tried therapy. It just.. is it enough? Do I have the fortitude for this? I mean nothing is for sure. The last time I was in a committed relationship he constantly violated my boundaries and then blind sighted me with a breakup at 6 months. So someone who treats me with respect, and consideration (as much as he can) feels amaaaazing. I have a problem falling for the "nice guy" the guy who treats me with care and consideration. When you grow up impoverished then anything even resembling human decency feels like love.
I've often said that "consideration" is my love language. So I guess people pleasers are my kryptonite.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2024 4:21:38 GMT
Yeah there is wayyyyy to much of his past in this dynamic. The two of you weigh things against his past to an inappropriate degree, which is fine for learning but this isn't relationship stuff it really gets into that zone of stuff he should be talking to a therapist about and leaving it the hell out of his dating. I don't think there's any way you should be considering his past partners as you're dating him. His past is way too much on display in your posts, from my perspective.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2024 4:55:25 GMT
I mean, you are also saying he stepped up, because he FINALLY came out and admitted he OVERCOMMITTED elsewhere, after giving you some dumb bullshit 'compromises'? You had to practically force him to "step up". And all this in the context of a guy who shuns commitment, it's his pattern.
I think you're scraping the bottom of the barrel here. Your bar is pretty low if you're giving credit because someone finally stops beating around the bush once you call them out, as they are breaking plans with you because they basically suck at adulting. This is not the time to be feeling closer because you (solved a communication problem? Ummm...) have a high tolerance for his insecurity.
Just because he's nice and considerate playing relationship (not relationship) with you doesn't mean he isn't straight up full of shit. I think he's onto you. This works for you on some level, and it works for him on some level, but it's pretty wonky IMHO
Are you gaslighting yourself here, even just a little, because you like him and your illusion of what he could be for you?
Two months in, he's actively working on not projecting his past hurts on to you? He's not ready to even be dating. This shouldn't be happening. His baggage has become the main focus of this whole thing. Every unhealthy thing he does, made relative to his painful (sob story) past. And you are comparing yourself to his exes ! Nat Lue would be dressing you down, right?
There's something cute she used to say that was a quote from a movie... I can't remember what it was but she'd be saying it here. You like her stuff, don't you? Maybe pause thinking about if his video viewing is enough and listen to her episodes or read her blog a bit?
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Post by cherrycola on Apr 30, 2024 20:41:28 GMT
The over commitment was another date. That he didn't tell me about. A second date in fact. The first date was apparently to try to figure out if he wanted to be with me. Then he decided without talking to me, that I would be so enraged and done he should just see her again.
He didn't owe me exclusivity but he did owe me to tell me and not hide it from me. I wish he could tell me it was worth it, but he couldn't.
I wish I could say I got angry or walked out, but I just froze and sat there and talked until I couldn't talk anymore.
If I hadn't poured my heart out here over the years. I would refer him here. I think he could really use the guidance of the members here.
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Post by alexandra on Apr 30, 2024 22:18:55 GMT
The good news here is you CAN trust your instincts. You were pulling back on speed of investment, and we validated you had reason to because he wasn't actually ready for a stable relationship (which had nothing to do with you). I'm sorry things didn't work out and that it's upsetting, but you were tracking what was going on with him pretty much there entire time in your posts. You just need to be more confident in listening to yourself.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2024 22:41:43 GMT
The over commitment was another date. That he didn't tell me about. A second date in fact. The first date was apparently to try to figure out if he wanted to be with me. Then he decided without talking to me, that I would be so enraged and done he should just see her again. He didn't owe me exclusivity but he did owe me to tell me and not hide it from me. I wish he could tell me it was worth it, but he couldn't. I wish I could say I got angry or walked out, but I just froze and sat there and talked until I couldn't talk anymore. If I hadn't poured my heart out here over the years. I would refer him here. I think he could really use the guidance of the members here. His freakin sob stories, poor liar....
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Post by lovebunny on May 1, 2024 12:02:31 GMT
Another date!? Screw that.
I hope you're finished with this dude. Disrespectful, dishonest & a flake. I'm so sorry it turned out this way.
I understand feeling frozen. I dislike that "freeze" or "fawn" is often my response where "flee" would be a better option. I hope you flee this situation, this isn't the man for you, friend.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2024 13:08:46 GMT
@cherrycola I know this has been a painful experience for you. I had those on along the way too, it's not a sign that you're failing. Bad experiences are how I accumulated a list of things to avoid. 1) talk about exes and their behavior is a red flag, the person hasn't sufficiently addressed their own issues and are other focused 2) if the conversations involve discussions about a difficulty with commitment, and I am looking for a long term relationship, then this is not a good candidate and the interview is over, lol. Especially if I can relate in present tense, Ive got to look at that. I learned this with a man who eventually admitted his therapist thinks he's a narcissist. So there you go, even when someone's going to therapy you have to go by how they OPERATE, NOW, not just that they talk a lot about themselves to anyone who will listen! 3) To the point above: just because someone will talk about their issues and problems with you, doesn't mean they are solving them. It only means they like to talk about themselves and how difficult it is (to be the victim of everyone around, including eventually you) 4) if someone beats around the bush and things seem shady, it's because they are HIDING SOMETHING. If it feels off, it's off. SURE, Maybe they just don't have good communication skills... and I require good communication. I'm not a communication coach. Come at me with basic skills in place.
These are just things to be aware of in others.. there's a whole other list of things to catch and correct in one's own thinking. That's the subject of another post but I'm out of time this morning.
This is part of the process, don't beat yourself up and certainly dont let it put a tombstone on dating. It's like anything else with a steep learning curve.
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Post by cherrycola on May 1, 2024 21:12:54 GMT
Thank you for the support. It's painful but feels very different than previous heartbreaks. I am feeling very loved and supported right now by everyone in my life. I have a tight knit team at work and even though they had no clue what was going on, they were offering me love, and even forcing me to eat something.
After work I went for a walk with a friend, and then called a counsellor.
I don't think he is narcissistic but definitely emotionally immature. But I see so much of myself in him which is making this hard. Misplaced empathy and compassion? I also recognize the covert/passive aggressive tactics. If there is one thing I have experience with, it's passive aggressiveness. From both my exes and myself. I don't think he is being honest with either of us about why he did it. He may not even know. I can come up with a handful of scenarios about the "why" but I am trying to not overly dwell on them, since I know this isn't my fault. Besides maybe being too accepting? I wish I knew if it was guilt vs remorse. When I did shitty things like this, I am not sure I was capable of true remorse because my shame just got in the way.
I keep thinking about often I used to commit emotional infidelity with my long term partner. How my feelings (even now) come and go and I have to cognitively hold onto them. He was actually shocked to hear me say this, because he said he goes through something similar when he isn't around me, and then when he is with me he really enjoys my company. I think people who don't experience this type of lack of object constancy can truly understand what it's like. It's not something I EVER share with people I date, because how scary would it be to hear your date say oh yeah I am so emotionally scared I can't hold onto my feelings for you like a normal person and will fall in and out of love with you many many times a day and if we get into a fight I may actually lose all feelings completely until we repair.
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Post by alexandra on May 1, 2024 21:41:47 GMT
But I see so much of myself in him which is making this hard. Misplaced empathy and compassion? I was in this situation once. I went on a few dates with a suuuuper textbook and unaware, immature AP. I recognized so much of my teenage / early 20s self in what he was doing. But flip that script: that means you know where in his process he's at and (if he was earnestly doing the work for himself) how very long it would take him just to catch up to where you currently are -- and you're still not finished, which makes him even further out. So, I think that perspective makes it more obvious how important it is to keep good boundaries around this and, sure, have compassion and understanding, but not continue to give him access to vomit his feelings and issues all over you.
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Post by mrob on May 2, 2024 1:10:35 GMT
I’d agree with @introvert and alexandra. People tell on themselves really quickly, and it has given me a window as to where they were, aware or unaware, in their journey. Doubtless I’ve done the same.
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Post by cherrycola on May 2, 2024 16:51:27 GMT
Had a very bittersweet conversation. Painful but good. I felt better but also very sad.
He simply said after 2 months he felt like he should feel more, but he doesn't and he didn't want to waste my time. He said part of this is trying to honor that I am dating to find a partner and he doesn't want to waste my time if he can't get there. But also he is scared because he knows his feelings disappear sometimes and he is truly worried that in three months he'll want me back and I'll be gone. He apologized a lot for going about this the wrong way. But then we just chatted and hung out and he said I was his best friend and as hard as it is to tell me the truth, I am by far the person in his life he is the most honest and open with. I wanted to smack him. Smack him because I am not crazy and I KNOW there are true and real feelings there. It was odd, but this was by far the best time we have had hanging out in awhile. I wish we had just been this free and open around each other before. and not triggering each other back and forth. It also confirms that my picker is getting better. I've dated a lot of men that I wouldn't want to be friends with, and in another life, we would have been friends.
It feels easier now, he "released" me. He made his decision, he wants to see if he feels more for someone else. He has already picked another AP to fill this gap. I really wish he was at least dating someone amazing. It feels terrible that I am being let go for another AP, which was exactly my fear to begin with. But he did listen and said he is going to slow things down with her, he doesn't need to rush in. He did consider what I said that starting something with her, while with me, right after his ex... was not how you go about things. To spend sometime alone and in therapy.
edit: As a typical FA he asked me to stay. He said he isn't going to sleep with either of us right now, which honestly surprised me. He was actually not planning on seeing her for a week so he could sort through his feelings, but then she was being super clingy and he felt guilty and hung out with her (off to a great start eh?). So that was his compromise. I did say I was thinking about dating again and he said he wants to know. And then part of me feels he lost that privilege. The whole keep me close but not that close. So I am going to sit with those feelings for a bit. I don't actually want to jump on any dating apps but I bet it feels "safer" for him to "have me" in this way and that feels bad for me. I don't think he deserves it.
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Post by mrob on May 2, 2024 17:06:29 GMT
And so the circle of unaware/unwilling life keeps going. Not being there is hard, and he’s demonstrating what it is to take the easy way out.
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Post by alexandra on May 2, 2024 19:05:51 GMT
He simply said after 2 months he felt like he should feel more, but he doesn't and he didn't want to waste my time. I've heard that breakup line several times, and I am pretty sure I have heard it exclusively from FA men. I eventually realized that it means they are so disconnected from themselves that they just don't understand feelings. No one "should" feel any specific way, and to say that means they're imagining how they think something ought to be without having a clue. I understand that the lack of object constancy plays into this, but ultimately my takeaway has been over several similar experiences that it means they're not emotionally available, and the rest of the noise doesn't matter. He said he isn't going to sleep with either of us right now, which honestly surprised me. ... The whole keep me close but not that close. Yep, he doesn't want to close any doors unless he has to and is hoping to keep you both not too close not too far. No boundaries, so you've got to make sure to have some! His best friend after only knowing you 2 months??? Good grief. Stick with your instincts and what you told him: he doesn't need to keep relationship-hopping right now, he just needs to start therapy... I hope you can focus on the fact you will be okay without his issues weighing you down and leaving no room for YOU!
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