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Post by tnr9 on May 29, 2024 21:39:42 GMT
Did you hear it as "I am sexually satisfied right now, but if that changes, I might go look for sex elsewhere?" If so, I can see that being pretty triggering. 100% it felt like a reminder that he owed me nothing. We aren't committed and he could just go off and date at anytime. But hey the sex is good so I'm sticking around. It's not something I would ever say to someone I was dating. If I was going to make a similar joke I would leave the other men out of it ? So while I can 100% see my own AP story telling here, I also have to honor all the small little distancing things he did/said while we were together. I was staying in my own adult space and then he kept bringing things up that just felt bad. Like jokes about how a one sided poly relationship would be perfect, because he didn't want me to go out and date other men. It always felt like there was something under the joke. Or when I picked up pieces here and there of a previous 8 month situationship that he stayed in because the sex was amazing, but he never developed feelings for her. That was also deeply triggering for me. I did point blank ask him how I was different, and he said he saw himself being happy with me, so I took it at face value. And with more context of him monkey branching to a new girl before he was done with me, and then coming back to me, then her... It even more so doesn't feel like I necessarily read into things wrong. I think he was actively trying to keep me a certain distance. People with attachment issues are usually bad at regulation and if he was an FA, then certainly he would be keeping distance….and while I commend you for seeing his distancing tactics…you are still giving him power when you spend time dwelling on it. The question I would suggest you explore next is why did you stay if he kept distancing from you? What in your childhood convinced you to stay when things felt “wrong” and “hurtful”? |
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Post by sunrisequest on May 30, 2024 10:52:13 GMT
I think sometimes it's not until after a relationship ends that we look back at certain comments and moments and put them all together and make the full connection about what we think was actually going on. As long as it doesn't go into the zone of full rumination, a certain amount of analysis can sometimes be helpful to gain a clear idea of what dynamics were playing out and earmark them for the future so that we have a better idea of what is happening in the moment next time.
In an ideal world, we have all the perspective we need in the moment, but if we are also working through our own triggers as well as deciphering theirs. It's not always easy to see all the parts of something. If you feel he was trying to keep you at a certain distance, you're most likely right and I agree there's something odd about those comments, but only very slightly... not even enough to bring up, but it's not the sort of comment that makes you feel secure. I think suggestions and insinuations about other people when you're deep into an intimate connection would be a bit unnerving, and not something that I would do either.
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Post by cherrycola on May 30, 2024 19:49:16 GMT
I have been pondering this today, about hindsight... but also about my ADHD and delayed processing. I perceive weird little things and pickup a pattern but then I don't know what to make of it and I don't have the ability to hold it in my thoughts long enough to process. Imagine it as a sticky note, but it's off brand and doesn't stick well. It can go missing.
So oftentimes AFTER I have had a conversation with someone my brain picks up on weird things or things I want to ask about further, but I literally have to write them down and make a point of checking my notes or else my brain throws them out. So it isn't that I am even ruminating on them, they just randomly pop up at the strangest times. But this can be embarrassing because many people can't even remember what the point they were trying to make was and then it turns into a weird thing. But to me, I literally did not have the thought until my brain was able to process the entire conversation at a later point.
So looking back there were things I definitely should have pushed for more info on, but my brain kind of threw them all out until I had the final piece of context.
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Post by tnr9 on May 30, 2024 20:00:28 GMT
I have been pondering this today, about hindsight... but also about my ADHD and delayed processing. I perceive weird little things and pickup a pattern but then I don't know what to make of it and I don't have the ability to hold it in my thoughts long enough to process. Imagine it as a sticky note, but it's off brand and doesn't stick well. It can go missing. So oftentimes AFTER I have had a conversation with someone my brain picks up on weird things or things I want to ask about further, but I literally have to write them down and make a point of checking my notes or else my brain throws them out. So it isn't that I am even ruminating on them, they just randomly pop up at the strangest times. But this can be embarrassing because many people can't even remember what the point they were trying to make was and then it turns into a weird thing. But to me, I literally did not have the thought until my brain was able to process the entire conversation at a later point. So looking back there were things I definitely should have pushed for more info on, but my brain kind of threw them all out until I had the final piece of context. Ah…ok…I forgot about your ADHD. I have a friend with ADHD and he too makes connections usually after the fact. To him…it is like a puzzle with pieces missing instead of an off brand of sticky notes, but I think you and he are speaking of the same process. To be honest…this board is full of stories where individuals discovered the distancing techniques of FAs only after the fact…so it isn’t that you missed something you should have caught earlier…it is that you may have simply become a bit numb or immune or perhaps he bounced around between closeness and distance that it was hard to really make the distinction. |
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Post by cherrycola on May 30, 2024 20:20:04 GMT
I have been pondering this today, about hindsight... but also about my ADHD and delayed processing. I perceive weird little things and pickup a pattern but then I don't know what to make of it and I don't have the ability to hold it in my thoughts long enough to process. Imagine it as a sticky note, but it's off brand and doesn't stick well. It can go missing. So oftentimes AFTER I have had a conversation with someone my brain picks up on weird things or things I want to ask about further, but I literally have to write them down and make a point of checking my notes or else my brain throws them out. So it isn't that I am even ruminating on them, they just randomly pop up at the strangest times. But this can be embarrassing because many people can't even remember what the point they were trying to make was and then it turns into a weird thing. But to me, I literally did not have the thought until my brain was able to process the entire conversation at a later point. So looking back there were things I definitely should have pushed for more info on, but my brain kind of threw them all out until I had the final piece of context. Ah…ok…I forgot about your ADHD. I have a friend with ADHD and he too makes connections usually after the fact. To him…it is like a puzzle with pieces missing instead of an off brand of sticky notes, but I think you and he are speaking of the same process. To be honest…this board is full of stories where individuals discovered the distancing techniques of FAs only after the fact…so it isn’t that you missed something you should have caught earlier…it is that you may have simply become a bit numb or immune or perhaps he bounced around between closeness and distance that it was hard to really make the distinction. He showed up in all the ways no one has ever showed up before, but I also have a lower need for connection, and things were quite new? So it was a bit deceiving. He was consistent with texts, he saw me 1-2 times a week. We did overnights, he seemed to really enjoy spending time with me, he was affectionate. Things seemed to be getting closer, albeit slowly. So I was like I am not being love bombed, this is amazing, I love it. I am so used to men taking forever to reply, or not wanting to see me, or cancelling last second that I missed the very subtle signs of distancing. Like when I asked him about meeting my best friend he said things like "that is an appropriate request" which is oddly cold? Or when she cancelled on him he said no biggie because I was the one who wanted him to meet her. But as Alexandra has pointed out before, my intuition picked up on it because I started to feel a bit insecure well before things blew up. But I kept talking myself down off the ledge. Even when his behavior took a sharp turn I talked myself down as I was being silly and he cared about me and things would be fine. Then just this week, randomly on my instagram up comes a video that those of us who have been involved with narcissists are very likely to also get involved with an avoidant, because how an avoidant love bombs is very subtle compared to a narcissist. So all those red flags we had with narcissists are useless and we fall for it all over again. |
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Post by tnr9 on May 30, 2024 21:02:50 GMT
Ah…ok…I forgot about your ADHD. I have a friend with ADHD and he too makes connections usually after the fact. To him…it is like a puzzle with pieces missing instead of an off brand of sticky notes, but I think you and he are speaking of the same process. To be honest…this board is full of stories where individuals discovered the distancing techniques of FAs only after the fact…so it isn’t that you missed something you should have caught earlier…it is that you may have simply become a bit numb or immune or perhaps he bounced around between closeness and distance that it was hard to really make the distinction. He showed up in all the ways no one has ever showed up before, but I also have a lower need for connection, and things were quite new? So it was a bit deceiving. He was consistent with texts, he saw me 1-2 times a week. We did overnights, he seemed to really enjoy spending time with me, he was affectionate. Things seemed to be getting closer, albeit slowly. So I was like I am not being love bombed, this is amazing, I love it. I am so used to men taking forever to reply, or not wanting to see me, or cancelling last second that I missed the very subtle signs of distancing. Like when I asked him about meeting my best friend he said things like "that is an appropriate request" which is oddly cold? Or when she cancelled on him he said no biggie because I was the one who wanted him to meet her. But as Alexandra has pointed out before, my intuition picked up on it because I started to feel a bit insecure well before things blew up. But I kept talking myself down off the ledge. Even when his behavior took a sharp turn I talked myself down as I was being silly and he cared about me and things would be fine. Then just this week, randomly on my instagram up comes a video that those of us who have been involved with narcissists are very likely to also get involved with an avoidant, because how an avoidant love bombs is very subtle compared to a narcissist. So all those red flags we had with narcissists are useless and we fall for it all over again. I would not call what an avoidant does as love bombing…..a narcissist is a personality disorder, an FA is an attachment issue. I have dated both and there is a world of difference between the two. Love bombing has intention behind is whereas for an FA, it is subconscious and more along the line of a reaction to familiarity than anything nefarious. |
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Post by tnr9 on May 30, 2024 21:05:11 GMT
Case in point…I have FA attachment from trauma in my childhood. I don’t love bomb anyone…and if there is an article floating around comparing the two…it is 100% inaccurate.
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Post by cherrycola on Jun 15, 2024 7:05:53 GMT
Case in point…I have FA attachment from trauma in my childhood. I don’t love bomb anyone…and if there is an article floating around comparing the two…it is 100% inaccurate. I would say in most cases they are not conscious to either types of people. And while not all FAs love bomb some of the things he said / did looking back were love bombing. Commenting on how amazing our connection was so quickly, saying he saw a future with me, etc. Those are a type of love bombing. He prided himself on not saying things that were not true, yet they were meaningless. He told me he bought me a gift that he never bought me, etc. I can also identify with doing these things to others and have had to learn to not do them. |
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Post by cherrycola on Jun 15, 2024 7:19:41 GMT
It's been a weird few weeks. I wish I could say I rode thru the discomfort by reading books and keeping busy with friends and hobbies, but that would be a version of me that doesn't exist. I applied for a new job and didn't get it due to office politics, so instead I started to date, met a few guys, felt no connection to anyone and ended things. My dating style has 100% shifted with me being turned completely off by any sort of intensity at all. Even the slightest push against any of my boundaries and I get the ick.
In an odd twist of fate an ex from 5 years ago saw me on bumble and reached out and we reconnected. It was bittersweet, because even though the original deal breaker was still there, we have grown into better versions of ourselves and I 100% see a world where we work. But it was still nice to see him and reach a level of vulnerability with each other that we never could have managed at the time. He expressed regret for letting me leave his life and not holding onto the friendship after things ended.
I don't so much miss the boy or think about him most days, but I ran across a hilarious comic about commitment-phobes and it was 100% something he would find funny so in a moment of weakness I sent it to him. A week later he sent me a reply that felt inadequate for what happened. He apologized for not reaching out sooner. That he didn't think we should be friends and he wants more time to read the books I lent him. In anger I told him I don't want to be his friend, thank you for the gift of letting me go and I hope he enjoys the book. Ironically it's "how to be an adult"
So maybe he'll learn something from it. Maybe in 5 years it'll be us reconnecting and I'll be getting an apology from him. But I doubt it. It is so insane how worlds apart these two men are.
So now I am just over here, flailing. Feeling like I am the red flag, I am the problem, I don't know how to connect to people in a healthy way and maybe I never will. My friends all seem to feel connected to me, but except for fleeting moments, I do not feel connected to them...
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Post by tnr9 on Jun 15, 2024 19:17:07 GMT
Case in point…I have FA attachment from trauma in my childhood. I don’t love bomb anyone…and if there is an article floating around comparing the two…it is 100% inaccurate. I would say in most cases they are not conscious to either types of people. And while not all FAs love bomb some of the things he said / did looking back were love bombing. Commenting on how amazing our connection was so quickly, saying he saw a future with me, etc. Those are a type of love bombing. He prided himself on not saying things that were not true, yet they were meaningless. He told me he bought me a gift that he never bought me, etc. I can also identify with doing these things to others and have had to learn to not do them. Usually when speaking of love bombing…there is an after devaluation…..that is pretty standard for narcissists, who try to manipulate individuals. B came on pretty strong before he knew me and spoke of getting married and buying a house…but I believe that in that moment, he truly believed that is what we were going to do…it was only after his fears got louder and he started to really see me versus a fantasy version of me that he started to back off and start to speak from a more doubting perspective. When you “love bombed” a person were you trying to manipulate them? That is a very distinct aspect of love bombing and the reason why I don’t think it fits an FA. Case in point, and why this word hits a nerve, I was love bombed by 2 individual narcissists…who both told me that I was the very best thing….they each pursued me and after they had won me over…each started to make very uncaring remarks while starting to pursue someone else. Being love bombed by the narcissists was very, very different from B’s rushed statements. |
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Post by mrob on Jun 17, 2024 2:11:16 GMT
Lovebombing, I’ve asked myself that question many times. What’s appropriate? How do I not get swept off with the feelings? In my experience, it’s normal for people to run for the hills if my actions are inappropriate. Some people are more easily scared off than others. After always struggling to play it cool, I made a decision to say it if I felt it. It’s gone wrong, but I haven’t ended up in front of a magistrate yet. All the same, if I don’t feel it, I don’t say it, either, where I may have to avoid the sadness of a break up.
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Post by cherrycola on Aug 2, 2024 20:49:55 GMT
When you “love bombed” a person were you trying to manipulate them? That is a very distinct aspect of love bombing and the reason why I don’t think it fits an FA. Not consciously. But I don't think it's ever done consciously. I wouldn't say narcissists are exactly self aware and intentionally try to manipulate people. From what I understand their protection mechanisms are so strong they can legitimately forgot the things they do/say. When they meet you, they believe you are "the one" but FA's are also guilty of this, just not to the same degree. So I think this may be an issue of differences of degree and how we define the word. I would view any over investment as love bombing. Excessive compliments, texting me a million times a day, wanting to see me constantly. This also includes future faking as part of this, omg "we" are going to go do X, and we should do Y, even if these things are months in the future. So I guess I view love bombing as any sort of over investment or excessive excitement that is based on projection of who you think someone is. I can't think of another word that would capture these actions. And all insecure do these to some degree. |
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 3, 2024 2:03:41 GMT
When you “love bombed” a person were you trying to manipulate them? That is a very distinct aspect of love bombing and the reason why I don’t think it fits an FA. Not consciously. But I don't think it's ever done consciously. I wouldn't say narcissists are exactly self aware and intentionally try to manipulate people. From what I understand their protection mechanisms are so strong they can legitimately forgot the things they do/say. When they meet you, they believe you are "the one" but FA's are also guilty of this, just not to the same degree. So I think this may be an issue of differences of degree and how we define the word. I would view any over investment as love bombing. Excessive compliments, texting me a million times a day, wanting to see me constantly. This also includes future faking as part of this, omg "we" are going to go do X, and we should do Y, even if these things are months in the future. So I guess I view love bombing as any sort of over investment or excessive excitement that is based on projection of who you think someone is. I can't think of another word that would capture these actions. And all insecure do these to some degree. I think you would change your mind if you actually dated a narcissist….which I have unfortunately done…twice. It is very much a conscious decision driven by a lack of empathy and a focus on self. They don’t “think” the same as someone with an attachment issue, because narcissism isn’t simply an attachment issue…there are literally brain differences that cause individuals who are narcissists to view others as “supply” versus people. Unless you have been love bombed and discarded by someone who has this personality disorder…I don’t think you can really speak to it. I lived through 3 years of it and still have scars from it and would not wish that type of relationship on anyone. But since you have not experienced it firsthand….your perspective is completely analytical and a word such as love bombing has a different meaning. But unless you have actually dated someone with NPD, please do not excuse how manipulative or aware they are…and they are nothing like an FA on steroids. An FA actually has the capacity to empathize. |
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Post by cherrycola on Aug 4, 2024 3:54:46 GMT
Not consciously. But I don't think it's ever done consciously. I wouldn't say narcissists are exactly self aware and intentionally try to manipulate people. From what I understand their protection mechanisms are so strong they can legitimately forgot the things they do/say. When they meet you, they believe you are "the one" but FA's are also guilty of this, just not to the same degree. So I think this may be an issue of differences of degree and how we define the word. I would view any over investment as love bombing. Excessive compliments, texting me a million times a day, wanting to see me constantly. This also includes future faking as part of this, omg "we" are going to go do X, and we should do Y, even if these things are months in the future. So I guess I view love bombing as any sort of over investment or excessive excitement that is based on projection of who you think someone is. I can't think of another word that would capture these actions. And all insecure do these to some degree. I think you would change your mind if you actually dated a narcissist….which I have unfortunately done…twice. It is very much a conscious decision driven by a lack of empathy and a focus on self. They don’t “think” the same as someone with an attachment issue, because narcissism isn’t simply an attachment issue…there are literally brain differences that cause individuals who are narcissists to view others as “supply” versus people. Unless you have been love bombed and discarded by someone who has this personality disorder…I don’t think you can really speak to it. I lived through 3 years of it and still have scars from it and would not wish that type of relationship on anyone. But since you have not experienced it firsthand….your perspective is completely analytical and a word such as love bombing has a different meaning. But unless you have actually dated someone with NPD, please do not excuse how manipulative or aware they are…and they are nothing like an FA on steroids. An FA actually has the capacity to empathize. Yeah, I have never dated a grandiose narcissist, all the narcissists in my life, have been vulnerable which I think is a different kettle of worms. They are a lot more transparent in their manipulations (maybe because my mom was one) but I don't think it invalidates that people can do things to different degrees. Narcissists gaslight, but do so regular abusive people. Narcissists discard and hoover, and discard and hoover. But so do BPDs and I would say FA's can even do this to the extent of they will exit a relationship suddenly and then when their fear dies down they come sniffing back. Is it do to the same level or the same underlying motivations? No, but it's the same result regardless. Again, if you can find a better word, I am open to it. And I know when I split on someone, I used to lose my empathy for that person. It was me me me, and whatever they were thinking of feeling didn't really matter to me at that point, it was getting away. |
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Post by tnr9 on Aug 4, 2024 14:42:53 GMT
I think you would change your mind if you actually dated a narcissist….which I have unfortunately done…twice. It is very much a conscious decision driven by a lack of empathy and a focus on self. They don’t “think” the same as someone with an attachment issue, because narcissism isn’t simply an attachment issue…there are literally brain differences that cause individuals who are narcissists to view others as “supply” versus people. Unless you have been love bombed and discarded by someone who has this personality disorder…I don’t think you can really speak to it. I lived through 3 years of it and still have scars from it and would not wish that type of relationship on anyone. But since you have not experienced it firsthand….your perspective is completely analytical and a word such as love bombing has a different meaning. But unless you have actually dated someone with NPD, please do not excuse how manipulative or aware they are…and they are nothing like an FA on steroids. An FA actually has the capacity to empathize. Yeah, I have never dated a grandiose narcissist, all the narcissists in my life, have been vulnerable which I think is a different kettle of worms. They are a lot more transparent in their manipulations (maybe because my mom was one) but I don't think it invalidates that people can do things to different degrees. Narcissists gaslight, but do so regular abusive people. Narcissists discard and hoover, and discard and hoover. But so do BPDs and I would say FA's can even do this to the extent of they will exit a relationship suddenly and then when their fear dies down they come sniffing back. Is it do to the same level or the same underlying motivations? No, but it's the same result regardless. Again, if you can find a better word, I am open to it. And I know when I split on someone, I used to lose my empathy for that person. It was me me me, and whatever they were thinking of feeling didn't really matter to me at that point, it was getting away. I think the difference is that regular people and FAs do not have actual brain changes that prevent true empathy. You cannot possibly go into that space because as selfish as you can be…you still can be empathetic. I think this course of dialogue is triggering for me and there really isn’t a way to describe it to someone who has never experienced it without going into the emotional, psychological and physical abuse it caused. No one who has the capacity for empathy can truly think like someone who doesn’t….which is why NPD can be viewed as simply being on a spectrum. I had to come to terms with the fact that I had been love bombed at times when he thought I would make good supply for his ego and would cruelly discard me like an old t shirt whenever he found someone new who he thought would be better supply….it was a cycle of love bomb, use, discard…love bomb, use, discard. I was worn down to the point that I prayed he would leave me because I was too weak to leave him. I was actually on a vacation when he texted me he had found someone else…..I actually went through a horrible period of wanting to text him and beg him to come back but I remembered that this is what I prayed for and I joined healing group for individuals who had been involved with NPD individuals through the it’s all about him forums. Over 12 weeks, we deprogrammed….we wrote good bye letters that we never sent, we learned about the brain changes and how we could never really understand their world, we burned our NPD passports, we became more aware of how love bombing worked to secure supply and most importantly…we learned it was not our fault for the way we were treated. He reached out about a year later…telling me that he missed me…that he had such fond memories of me, how beautiful I was etc etc and he wanted to start seeing each other again. I did not respond. I am 14 years free. |
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