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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 18:15:45 GMT
Then at that point, I will just be another cog in feeding her FA behaviors and solidifying that every person she meets will leave her, even though it's her own fault. I used to watch the TV show "Intervention" quite a bit it was about individuals addicted to something (usually a substance) the people in their lives and the goal for them to accept treatment. There was usually some event, something traumatic, that triggered the anxiety, this led to people seeking out relief though some sort of drug. It showed the people in the addict's life and how they too were being impacted by the addiction. A counselor (usually someone who also used to struggle with addiction) would often have to show the family and friends how their own behavior was contributing to the problem. It was very painful for most of them because they loved the addict in their life and they wanted desperately for them to get help but buying them booze or buying them food once they had spent all the money they were last given on drugs was enabling. They were helped to set healthy boundaries and had to accept and choose to stick to those boundaries for the sake of their loved one. Sometimes that even meant cutting them out of their lives until their loved one accepted help. At the end of the show, they would bring the addict in for the intervention. The family and friends would state(often tearfully) how this addiction had affected them personally and what their boundaries would have to be if the addict did not accept help. After hearing everyone (some would just walk out and didn't' want to hear it) the addict was offered an opportunity to receive help. They were offered a treatment plan. BUT THEY WOULD HAVE TO ACCEPT IT. With full knowledge of the pain they were causing they had a choice to make. Get help or not. However, choices have consequences. Now, I see what acting out (anxiously and avoidantly) does to people. But seeing ourselves, our part in the situation, is a choice we each, individually have to make. We (myself included) have said something to the effect of, "If only he/she would get help. I love him/her so much." If we are honest, we say this because we want them to change FOR US. We want things to be good again, like they were. We want them to make us feel the way they used to make me feel! Or, we want them to just stop acting so hurt and accept that we don't want to change ourselves because we want to come and go as we please. I have come to terms with this personal fact. If I truly love my ex and I feel that he does need help, then he has to want to change for himself. He knows how I feel, he now has a choice to make. I don't know when or if he will make the choice to get help. I've seen how sad he has been through all of this. I don't want him to hurt, but I know a lot of the pain he is bringing upon himself. I want him to get help for him not for me. If he does that, and then comes back and I feel at that time that I want things to continue, then I will make that choice then. But by me pursuing, I am making a case for him to distance himself. I become part of the problem. (If he were anxious and I kept caving to his fits, then I would be part of the problem) Sometimes the only way people ever get help is to hit rock bottom. It is a KINDNESS to allow people to face the consequences of their decisions. If they see time and time again that what they do over and over is not yielding negative results, they may finally wake up and see, DANG, I need help, just like many of us here have done. Its the best most loving thing we can do for them. And it is loving for ourselves too. As much as I love my ex, I don't want to be with someone who can say they are in love with me one day and then a week later change his mind and want nothing to do with me. I know that I can not live with that kind of instability. I know I WON'T live with that kind of instability. So, what if I've let him go and he goes and gets help and is better for someone else instead of me? Well, now I get the opportunity to be a better person for someone else too. It hurts and it sucks! But we are not our partners. Let's say they do abandon us, does that give us reason to abandon ourselves? No. That is the worst choice we can make. These are just my musings.
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Post by stavs on Jan 10, 2018 18:22:45 GMT
So let me ask this. Is it ok for me to ask her if there is anyone else physically or emotionally? So I struggled with this too.....I would see my ex on IM at the exact same time as another friend....and I would go a bit crazy with jealousy (not shared, but certainly felt) that my ex did not deserve. Part of being in a relationship is that you trust the other person. What is the worst that could happen if you just trust that she is being faithful to you? What are you afraid is going to happen if you own your own confidence and simply allow her to speak to these guys knowing that none of them are you. It's a little more difficult than that. When we were on a "break," she hooked up with a guy she had a huge crush on. That ended bad as she came to find out he lied to her and she was the side chick. She really looked up to him and it crushed her. I think she still has feelings for him though, and I suspect she may be seeing him.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 18:28:15 GMT
I'm curious: How would you feel if you asked her and the answer was yes? What do you think you would need to do? OR How will you feel if the answer is no? What do you think you would do?
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Post by stavs on Jan 10, 2018 18:31:25 GMT
I'm curious: How would you feel if you asked her and the answer was yes? What do you think you would need to do? OR How will you feel if the answer is no? What do you think you would do? Well if the answer was yes, I would thank her for her honesty and I would break up with her and say this isnt what I want. If the answer was no, I would again thank her, and tell her I love her, and apologize for my insecurity.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 18:37:46 GMT
I'm curious: How would you feel if you asked her and the answer was yes? What do you think you would need to do? OR How will you feel if the answer is no? What do you think you would do? Well if the answer was yes, I would thank her for her honesty and I would break up with her and say this isnt what I want. If the answer was no, I would again thank her, and tell her I love her, and apologize for my insecurity. And if you do the latter, what are you hoping will happen?
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Post by stavs on Jan 10, 2018 18:38:42 GMT
Well if the answer was yes, I would thank her for her honesty and I would break up with her and say this isnt what I want. If the answer was no, I would again thank her, and tell her I love her, and apologize for my insecurity. And if you do the latter, what are you hoping will happen? Dont know...play it by ear I guess.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 18:54:11 GMT
And if you do the latter, what are you hoping will happen? Dont know...play it by ear I guess. Maybe we all do well to ask ourselves some of these questions: What is it that I am looking for in this relationship? Am I getting what I need? Have my requests for my needs to be met gone ignored or were they met with hostility? Have I been met halfway in my attempts to find a middle ground? How often are we having the same disagreement? Is this really what I want? Do I think I can save this person, without completely loosing myself? Do I love who they are, or who I would like them to be? You have a choice too.
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Post by stavs on Jan 10, 2018 19:00:53 GMT
Dont know...play it by ear I guess. Maybe we all do well to ask ourselves some of these questions: What is it that I am looking for in this relationship? Am I getting what I need? Have my requests for my needs to be met gone ignored or were they met with hostility? Have I been met halfway in my attempts to find a middle ground? How often are we having the same disagreement? Is this really what I want? Do I think I can save this person, without completely loosing myself? Do I love who they are, or who I would like them to be? You have a choice too. You are absolutely right, but at the end of the day I dont want to lose her. Perhaps I am silly in denying my needs because of my love for her.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 19:32:46 GMT
Maybe we all do well to ask ourselves some of these questions: What is it that I am looking for in this relationship? Am I getting what I need? Have my requests for my needs to be met gone ignored or were they met with hostility? Have I been met halfway in my attempts to find a middle ground? How often are we having the same disagreement? Is this really what I want? Do I think I can save this person, without completely loosing myself? Do I love who they are, or who I would like them to be? You have a choice too. You are absolutely right, but at the end of the day I dont want to lose her. Perhaps I am silly in denying my needs because of my love for her. I truly understand loving someone and not wanting to loose them. Denying your needs in the relationship is not very loving either, at least not to yourself. The word need is defined: to require (something) because it is essential (absolutely necessary; extremely important.) or very important. To abandon our needs, is basically lying to ourselves. If something is essential, then it isn't going to just go away because you love someone. Once you decide that your needs are no longer important, she stops being the problem and then all fingers point back to you. You matter. Your feelings and your needs matter. And they have to matter to you first before they are going to matter to anyone else.
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Post by stavs on Jan 10, 2018 19:50:01 GMT
You are absolutely right, but at the end of the day I dont want to lose her. Perhaps I am silly in denying my needs because of my love for her. I truly understand loving someone and not wanting to loose them. Denying your needs in the relationship is not very loving either, at least not to yourself. The word need is defined: to require (something) because it is essential (absolutely necessary; extremely important.) or very important. To abandon our needs, is basically lying to ourselves. If something is essential, then it isn't going to just go away because you love someone. Once you decide that your needs are no longer important, she stops being the problem and then all fingers point back to you. You matter. Your feelings and your needs matter. And they have to matter to you first before they are going to matter to anyone else. You are absolutely right, but I cant give up on her....I wish I could explain it. I really do. I have a chat scheduled with her tonight, which she is probably stressing over and getting all anxious about. She will be in fear mode for sure, but I have things on my mind that I need to discuss with her. I'm extremely confused to tell the truth - I hear what you are saying and I feel I need to look after my needs, but I know she can provide those if she was able to get past her fears.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 20:07:21 GMT
I truly understand loving someone and not wanting to loose them. Denying your needs in the relationship is not very loving either, at least not to yourself. The word need is defined: to require (something) because it is essential (absolutely necessary; extremely important.) or very important. To abandon our needs, is basically lying to ourselves. If something is essential, then it isn't going to just go away because you love someone. Once you decide that your needs are no longer important, she stops being the problem and then all fingers point back to you. You matter. Your feelings and your needs matter. And they have to matter to you first before they are going to matter to anyone else. You are absolutely right, but I cant give up on her....I wish I could explain it. I really do. I have a chat scheduled with her tonight, which she is probably stressing over and getting all anxious about. She will be in fear mode for sure, but I have things on my mind that I need to discuss with her. I'm extremely confused to tell the truth - I hear what you are saying and I feel I need to look after my needs, but I know she can provide those if she was able to get past her fears. Oh no, you don't have to explain it. I do have a very good idea of what you are feeling. I felt and still feel the same way about my ex. There is no good reason that I could see or that he could give me why we shouldn't be planning our wedding right now. I understand. I haven't given up on him though, I would never do that. I have accepted the reality that he doesn't see the need to put forth the effort to give me the very basic things that anyone would need in a relationship. I am in no way needy so what I asked of him was not much at all. I agree with you IF he would put just a bit of effort into trying to let me in, and stop being so terrified, then I believe things could work. But that's an "if" I don't have any control over. Until he decides that it is important and beneficial to him to be present in a relationship, not just ours, then I'm just being a glutton pr punishment. I hope the conversation is going to go well for you. Do you have clear in mind what you are wanting to say. What is your objective?
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Post by stavs on Jan 10, 2018 20:33:24 GMT
You are absolutely right, but I cant give up on her....I wish I could explain it. I really do. I have a chat scheduled with her tonight, which she is probably stressing over and getting all anxious about. She will be in fear mode for sure, but I have things on my mind that I need to discuss with her. I'm extremely confused to tell the truth - I hear what you are saying and I feel I need to look after my needs, but I know she can provide those if she was able to get past her fears. Oh no, you don't have to explain it. I do have a very good idea of what you are feeling. I felt and still feel the same way about my ex. There is no good reason that I could see or that he could give me why we shouldn't be planning our wedding right now. I understand. I haven't given up on him though, I would never do that. I have accepted the reality that he doesn't see the need to put forth the effort to give me the very basic things that anyone would need in a relationship. I am in no way needy so what I asked of him was not much at all. I agree with you IF he would put just a bit of effort into trying to let me in, and stop being so terrified, then I believe things could work. But that's an "if" I don't have any control over. Until he decides that it is important and beneficial to him to be present in a relationship, not just ours, then I'm just being a glutton pr punishment. I hope the conversation is going to go well for you. Do you have clear in mind what you are wanting to say. What is your objective? I was going to talk to her about her insecurities and her perceived bad decisions. I just want to get a little more out of her. I would like to talk about my needs, but she will say "I cant give you what you want and need." Thats her usual excuse.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 21:02:07 GMT
Oh no, you don't have to explain it. I do have a very good idea of what you are feeling. I felt and still feel the same way about my ex. There is no good reason that I could see or that he could give me why we shouldn't be planning our wedding right now. I understand. I haven't given up on him though, I would never do that. I have accepted the reality that he doesn't see the need to put forth the effort to give me the very basic things that anyone would need in a relationship. I am in no way needy so what I asked of him was not much at all. I agree with you IF he would put just a bit of effort into trying to let me in, and stop being so terrified, then I believe things could work. But that's an "if" I don't have any control over. Until he decides that it is important and beneficial to him to be present in a relationship, not just ours, then I'm just being a glutton pr punishment. I hope the conversation is going to go well for you. Do you have clear in mind what you are wanting to say. What is your objective? I was going to talk to her about her insecurities and her perceived bad decisions. I just want to get a little more out of her. I would like to talk about my needs, but she will say "I cant give you what you want and need." Thats her usual excuse. I understand wanting to tell her about herself. ESPECIALLY after you start understanding things a bit more. But remember, if she is avoidant, this information could cause her to push even harder. I tired to do the same with my ex. What I ended up feeling like I was doing was making him feel like I was tearing him down. He already has low self esteem. The most emotion i ever got in response to anything i said was, " I am perfectly aware of just how messed up I am!" That's the exact opposite of what my intent was. My ex is not your partner though so this approach may work for you. I really don't know. If you've expressed your needs to her already and her response is that she can't give you what you need. That's something to really think about. Think perhaps ask her what it is that she needs from you in the relationship. Then let her talk and just listen. Even If the answer is that she doesn't know, save yourself the pain of continuing to figure it out, getting into a heated debate about attachment theory or your needs and what is and isn't fair and expected in a relationship. When she's done expressing herself simply say, "Thank you for being open with me. I really appreciate that. I know it isn't always easy to put feelings into words. Do you think we can talk about this again (let's say) in a couple of days? I want process what you've told me and I want to give it deserves." Then really take the time to "hear" what she has told you. It may feel awkward and cause some anxiety just to sit and listen. Ask questions. Don't resort to telling her how she feels based on what your anxiety might tell you. Use questions like, can you help me understand why you feel that way? Or Can you tell me what it was that led you to that conclusion about me? Know what I'm saying. It's a "more bees with honey than vinegar" situation.
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Post by yasmin on Jan 10, 2018 22:27:39 GMT
I don't think giving up on her is the same as asking for your basic needs to be met. Asking her if there's someone else surely has to be a basic nuts and bolts requirement. How can you make emotionally healthy choices without the basic information to do It?
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Post by stavs on Jan 10, 2018 22:29:35 GMT
I was going to talk to her about her insecurities and her perceived bad decisions. I just want to get a little more out of her. I would like to talk about my needs, but she will say "I cant give you what you want and need." Thats her usual excuse. I understand wanting to tell her about herself. ESPECIALLY after you start understanding things a bit more. But remember, if she is avoidant, this information could cause her to push even harder. I tired to do the same with my ex. What I ended up feeling like I was doing was making him feel like I was tearing him down. He already has low self esteem. The most emotion i ever got in response to anything i said was, " I am perfectly aware of just how messed up I am!" That's the exact opposite of what my intent was. My ex is not your partner though so this approach may work for you. I really don't know. If you've expressed your needs to her already and her response is that she can't give you what you need. That's something to really think about. Think perhaps ask her what it is that she needs from you in the relationship. Then let her talk and just listen. Even If the answer is that she doesn't know, save yourself the pain of continuing to figure it out, getting into a heated debate about attachment theory or your needs and what is and isn't fair and expected in a relationship. When she's done expressing herself simply say, "Thank you for being open with me. I really appreciate that. I know it isn't always easy to put feelings into words. Do you think we can talk about this again (let's say) in a couple of days? I want process what you've told me and I want to give it deserves." Then really take the time to "hear" what she has told you. It may feel awkward and cause some anxiety just to sit and listen. Ask questions. Don't resort to telling her how she feels based on what your anxiety might tell you. Use questions like, can you help me understand why you feel that way? Or Can you tell me what it was that led you to that conclusion about me? Know what I'm saying. It's a "more bees with honey than vinegar" situation. All good advice and I certainly appreciate it. Basically I do just want to hear what she has to say, and I do want to know what she wants from the relationship. Thing is what she says and what she really wants could be two different things because of her fear. Its almost as if I wont get an honest answer.
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