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Post by kristyrose on Jan 30, 2018 5:24:39 GMT
kristyrose, you know that is the first time I have really been able to write it down in an understandable way. Reading and writing on here has really helped me put into words what I've been thinking. It makes it so much clearer for me too the more I think and write about it. Thank you to all who post on here ! That's really incredible. I am actually finding the same for myself. I can see more clearly how I behaved and how much it impacted my relationship. I think I came on here first, blaming my ex and seeking answers about him, now I am finding out more about myself instead! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 6:29:51 GMT
Mary, that is such a good way of putting it. Really gives me clarity. This is why my DA keeps saying things like “I’m good if you’re good”, “I’m still good to you even if we aren’t talking”. I never understood what he was trying to tell me. I AM fine by myself but I miss him and wanted to talk to him, that’s all. The more he said it the more I felt like I was being pushed away. If I could be fine without you, then why do I really need you in my life? Im fine WITHOUT you. I just wanted to make it better with you in it! Also, I was used to talking to him everyday (he established the pattern but couldn’t keep up), so when things changed plus his constant nagging to be ok without him, i felt like I was being dog farmed.
Right now, I’m doing well without the AP tendencies, and strangely, I find his contact quite intrusive instead! It’s very hard for me to be good on my own and be happy having him as well. When I get strong, I don’t feel so much positivity connecting or contacting him. If anything, it’s a drain because I have to manage my own energies to accommodate him. Maybe I’m flipping to avoidant now?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 12:07:13 GMT
Hi Mary, that’s interesting what you said. For me, when I ask for a hug or a conversation or some connecting time, sometimes my DA acts like it’s a chore even if he responds. That makes me triggered and feel like a burden, and very much unloved. For me, I think what I am looking for, is simply a partner who will connect with me without feeling like I’m a burden. He simply needs to respond by being there with me. The ability for my partner to respond to my emotional bids is what makes the relationship safe for me. Is this what is vulnerable for you? What would a “safe” person look or feel like to you? What does “safe” mean? My first ex (from 10 years ago) was AP, but really beyond AP and he was a burden. It's not the emotional closeness that I fear, it's the dependency of the other person on me to feel ok. It's the feeling that if I don't do something (for example respond to calls right away) that this person will go off the deep end in a serious way. That's the burden. It's the feeling that the other person depends on me for their emotional state. If I know the other person just loves being with me, but is fine on their own as well, that feels safe to me. In the past, the emotional bids were not always made known to me. If someone says to me, I need a hug. That's no problem. It's direct and I know what they are asking for. But if someone is screaming at me all the time, because I don't call enough or answer fast enough or whatever enough, I don't get it. I know at that point, it's not even about me anymore. It's about them needing something to feel ok and I don't even know what that is, because it seems like nothing I do can satisfy it. I think people can be very emotionally connected, but it doesn't have to be 20 texts a day or 2 hour phone calls every day. Those things are physical connections to me, not emotional. You do need some of the physical connections of course, but I don't think it needs to be over the top to have a deep emotional connection. Ok, i am going to use the word “You” because i am also using the word Me and i am illustrating how personal everything really does feel. I don’t mean to sting, but know it might. But let’s try this, i am sure we have all listened to a lot of You You You too. The burden. you guys know i appreciate you, all of you posting here. But AP behavior is in fact a burden (ok, opinion, not fact. lol) If you are with an avoidant you will be acting out nearly constantly. So will your partner but they aren’t here on this board so they won’t be speaking for themselves here or working on their issues here so what’s the point of going ad infinitum about them if you really want to heal. You would be quite stung to hear about how your behavior looks from the other side so just be humble.  I mean it, for me too. we all have to get there. The burden. Having every move microscrutinized and being found deficient and inadequate to meet your needs is a burden. The point you might not realize, is that it is truly offensive to be the bad guy in your imagination all the time. And you may not be outright saying we are the bad guy, but what does your constant despair and angst imply about me? Meanness. it implies some brand of meanness. We have real lives and real concerns and real worries too, and many don’t have anything to do with you. When we have a lot on our mind and you feel insecure because we twitched left when you wanted us to twitch right, it’s exasperating to have our regard for you questioned. Now we have another problem to tackle and we were just going along like everyone else handling life the best we could. Overwhelming, and not just once or twice. Yes it’s a pattern. That’s what all of this is about. patterns. Not one person good 99 percent of the time and then boom, someone’s a jerk. It’s a pattern , constant. on both sides. I have an AP friend i work out at the gym with. We can have a fine time lifting and talking about life but he is so self conscious and insecure he will text me afterward apologizing for being so needy and annoying. When i had enjoyed his company the whole time and showed him that. It makes me think... “what kind of an asshole do you think i am, that i can’t take time with another human and get something good out of it? am i that kind of stone, really?! “ i mean, what does it imply about me if he is always tippytoing around me? In this case, i am certain his apologies are coming out of his own insecurity , (i think he has a crush on me.... i am finding out) because i am secure in friendships and really it’s just bizarre how he always contorts after we spend time together. He must ruminate for hours. It’s a burden and i am tired of it. It taints every further interaction and i now keep it short so he doesn’t have to beat himself up and look to me for reassurance and now guess what.... he beats himself up because i am limiting contact and he still apologizes. So, i don’t want to have to deal with it. I don’t. My mom is sick, i have a grandbaby coming, i have been physically ill, i work full time to support my kids and those all are things that take my attention and energy. I would like some energy and attention just for myself too so AP is going to have to step aside and i am avoiding him completely. I don’t feel the obligation to spell it all out because that is a huge awkward situation i didn’t create and i don’t want drama where i work out. nobody does really, not just a DA. Let’s just have fun and work out? ] Also when your jealous turns into my infidelity, i have lost respect for you and am angry at the accusation. I am a cheater now too? Your love is so big you have to assasinate my character . I feel so loved, and like you really appreciate who i am. NOT. None of that was said to wound. But you have to understand that pages upon pages about the avoidant here have another side of the story, each and every account. This is just a general peek into it. There really are two sides of the story for every interaction and it’s not pretty.  That’s why i always bring attention back to self here, because anyone with attachment issues acts out and this keeps us all in unhealthy relationships and personal pain so let’s just keep it real and get better. It’s not about the partner. Yes there are valid complaints but like i said- they aren’t here looking for answers. You are. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 12:47:17 GMT
and i want to add that with my AP friend at the gym, the first one or two times he reached out for assurance it caught me off guard and i gave him heartfelt reassurance. Then once i was very sick and didn’t make it to the gym and he thought i was avoiding him and was too concerned about that to really empathize that i was sick. He really was just relieved that i wasn’t trying to avoid him.
The selfishness of that exchange really put me off.
I don’t need someone to mollycoddle me over a sinus infection but come on. also with my mother dying... he has said less about that than he has about whether or not i am avoiding him or am annoyed by him.
You know what? typing this makes me mad! it’s been extremely selfish.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 13:34:03 GMT
So why don't you ask your friend what it is about you that makes him think that you are not enjoying working out with him ? And why don't you tell him more about your situation about your mother and what you need from him ? because he is more of an acquaintance and once i saw how needy he is i have lost interest in the friendship. It’s just not valuable to me. I have no obligation to soothe him around this, i have shared about my mother and i don’t need anything from him except to not make it about him all the time, but like i said: i don’t want to deal with it so i won’t. I have other things and people to give my attention to and this friendship isn’t right for me because of the emotional demands. That’s the thing, too. why shouldn’t i just leave, why do i have to stay and soothe soothe negotiate soothe. I have gotten too healthy for that actually. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 13:34:58 GMT
i am not AP and don’t make other people’s actions all about me haha!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 13:44:44 GMT
I have a close circle of friends that are all emotionally available and we groove well together.
High maintenance insecurity is not appealing to me in a friendship, it’s a type of emotional unavailability and it just doesn’t work for me.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 14:09:26 GMT
i also suspect that he triggered into AP withvne because of his own romantic feelings for me.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 14:31:16 GMT
i’m sorry i can’t satusfy you anne 😂
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 14:41:24 GMT
.."and what does it apley about me that ..." You dont have to - just wanted to know anne, that comes after constant needs for reassurance, it isn’t a spontaneous thought “what is it about me?”. An example is, jealousy that turns into accusations of infidelity. there is an accusation of horrible behavior based on the jealousy of the accuser. I’m sorry but i can’t make myself more clear than that so i am going to leave it there. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 14:43:25 GMT
it’s more... that the hell?
he is the only person in my life who behaves this way and i don’t care to engage it, it’s draining.
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Post by madamebovary on Jan 30, 2018 14:53:55 GMT
My first ex (from 10 years ago) was AP, but really beyond AP and he was a burden. It's not the emotional closeness that I fear, it's the dependency of the other person on me to feel ok. It's the feeling that if I don't do something (for example respond to calls right away) that this person will go off the deep end in a serious way. That's the burden. It's the feeling that the other person depends on me for their emotional state. If I know the other person just loves being with me, but is fine on their own as well, that feels safe to me. In the past, the emotional bids were not always made known to me. If someone says to me, I need a hug. That's no problem. It's direct and I know what they are asking for. But if someone is screaming at me all the time, because I don't call enough or answer fast enough or whatever enough, I don't get it. I know at that point, it's not even about me anymore. It's about them needing something to feel ok and I don't even know what that is, because it seems like nothing I do can satisfy it. I think people can be very emotionally connected, but it doesn't have to be 20 texts a day or 2 hour phone calls every day. Those things are physical connections to me, not emotional. You do need some of the physical connections of course, but I don't think it needs to be over the top to have a deep emotional connection. Ok, i am going to use the word “You” because i am also using the word Me and i am illustrating how personal everything really does feel. I don’t mean to sting, but know it might. But let’s try this, i am sure we have all listened to a lot of You You You too. The burden. you guys know i appreciate you, all of you posting here. But AP behavior is in fact a burden (ok, opinion, not fact. lol) If you are with an avoidant you will be acting out nearly constantly. So will your partner but they aren’t here on this board so they won’t be speaking for themselves here or working on their issues here so what’s the point of going ad infinitum about them if you really want to heal. You would be quite stung to hear about how your behavior looks from the other side so just be humble. I mean it, for me too. we all have to get there. The burden. Having every move microscrutinized and being found deficient and inadequate to meet your needs is a burden. The point you might not realize, is that it is truly offensive to be the bad guy in your imagination all the time. And you may not be outright saying we are the bad guy, but what does your constant despair and angst imply about me? Meanness. it implies some brand of meanness. We have real lives and real concerns and real worries too, and many don’t have anything to do with you. When we have a lot on our mind and you feel insecure because we twitched left when you wanted us to twitch right, it’s exasperating to have our regard for you questioned. Now we have another problem to tackle and we were just going along like everyone else handling life the best we could. Overwhelming, and not just once or twice. Yes it’s a pattern. That’s what all of this is about. patterns. Not one person good 99 percent of the time and then boom, someone’s a jerk. It’s a pattern , constant. on both sides. I have an AP friend i work out at the gym with. We can have a fine time lifting and talking about life but he is so self conscious and insecure he will text me afterward apologizing for being so needy and annoying. When i had enjoyed his company the whole time and showed him that. It makes me think... “what kind of an asshole do you think i am, that i can’t take time with another human and get something good out of it? am i that kind of stone, really?! “ i mean, what does it imply about me if he is always tippytoing around me? In this case, i am certain his apologies are coming out of his own insecurity , (i think he has a crush on me.... i am finding out) because i am secure in friendships and really it’s just bizarre how he always contorts after we spend time together. He must ruminate for hours. It’s a burden and i am tired of it. It taints every further interaction and i now keep it short so he doesn’t have to beat himself up and look to me for reassurance and now guess what.... he beats himself up because i am limiting contact and he still apologizes. So, i don’t want to have to deal with it. I don’t. My mom is sick, i have a grandbaby coming, i have been physically ill, i work full time to support my kids and those all are things that take my attention and energy. I would like some energy and attention just for myself too so AP is going to have to step aside and i am avoiding him completely. I don’t feel the obligation to spell it all out because that is a huge awkward situation i didn’t create and i don’t want drama where i work out. nobody does really, not just a DA. Let’s just have fun and work out? ] Also when your jealous turns into my infidelity, i have lost respect for you and am angry at the accusation. I am a cheater now too? Your love is so big you have to assasinate my character . I feel so loved, and like you really appreciate who i am. NOT. None of that was said to wound. But you have to understand that pages upon pages about the avoidant here have another side of the story, each and every account. This is just a general peek into it. There really are two sides of the story for every interaction and it’s not pretty. That’s why i always bring attention back to self here, because anyone with attachment issues acts out and this keeps us all in unhealthy relationships and personal pain so let’s just keep it real and get better. It’s not about the partner. Yes there are valid complaints but like i said- they aren’t here looking for answers. You are. This is all very familiar to me, unfortunately. Looking back, though, I still feel like most of it could have been avoided (my triggered AP qualities) if he had just said to me (which I specifically asked him to do) to “please give me a heads up if you're going to be MIA for a few days so I don’t worry.” I can see all my own annoying behavior in your example and I own it. And reading it, it annoys me that I’m like this. But, to some degree, I know I’m like this, and I’m very up-front and specific about it so I would ask him to just tell me “I need a few days to myself.” His standard answer was always “just be yourself, text and call as much as you need, but know I may not always answer right away.” Well... if you’re giving me a green-light like that... I will email you at the end of the day. And I probably will text you a few times during the day. Which then annoyed him. To me, it seemed like he was setting me up for failure by not just voicing his opinion on the matter. He would then say he thought I would “take the hint” that he was super busy at work when he’s not answering. So my honest question to you, tgat, and any other avoidants that want to answer is... why is it so hard to just ask for the space you need, in plain-spoken, easy to interpret words, instead of relying on us to pick up cues that you need space? This is not an attack, I really want to know. With my DA, I suspect he was trying to avoid conflict, thinking that asking for space would trigger me (?) but it was much more triggering to be *told* one thing and feel something else. And again, I’m not trying to flip the script. I see so many annoying things that I did in your gym friend. SO, so many. Now that I can see the constant bids for reassurance for what they are (selfish self-soothing instead of actual connection to my partner)... the neediness and insecurity annoys ME. Things I’m working on. But I still really would like to know why it was always so hard for him to just tell me I NEED MY SPACE, instead of hoping I “pick up on that fact.” |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 15:05:50 GMT
hi madame,
the reason i didn’t engage this further with him is that we were more like just aquaintances.
i didn’t need space i just didn’t need to constantly reassure him.
we spent lots of time talking about his life and situation and i didn’t mind at all- but the way that he made my absence during illness about him was weird and annoying. I really think he had started to crush on me and that may have triggered him to be anxious, but i had a boyfriend and that feeling wasn’t mutual.
i just chose not to try to develop the friendship because this type of dynamic is unappealing to me. I have friends who have a much more comfortable dynamic without all the need for reassurance.
so i just don’t gravitate to AP style.
In the past when i was more unhealthy i might have been flattered by his interest or wanted to date him. but it’s just not my cup of tea to have to interact so much about the status of the relationship.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 15:07:40 GMT
so i can’t answer for your DA because i find it impossible to get involved with an AP to even get to that conversation. sorry |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 15:14:20 GMT
and also the implications about me, are rhetorical.
given the acquaintance nature of our relationship i saw the issue as his insecurity and not mine to address. i have a lot of friends and acquaintances who don’t need reassurance that we are ok, so i see him as an anomaly in my relationships. that’s why we won’t get closer. I wave and say hi and chit chat but i don’t want to encourage anything more.
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I mean it, for me too. we all have to get there. 
