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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 15:21:23 GMT
So my honest question to you, tgat, and any other avoidants that want to answer is... why is it so hard to just ask for the space you need, in plain-spoken, easy to interpret words, instead of relying on us to pick up cues that you need space? This is not an attack, I really want to know. With my DA, I suspect he was trying to avoid conflict, thinking that asking for space would trigger me (?) but it was much more triggering to be *told* one thing and feel something else. And again, I’m not trying to flip the script. I see so many annoying things that I did in your gym friend. SO, so many. Now that I can see the constant bids for reassurance for what they are (selfish self-soothing instead of actual connection to my partner)... the neediness and insecurity annoys ME. Things I’m working on. But I still really would like to know why it was always so hard for him to just tell me I NEED MY SPACE, instead of hoping I “pick up on that fact.” I'm sorry madamebovary, I don't know the answer as to why he does this. I do tell my partner when I need space. The problem I have had with that in the past is, I ask for space and I don't get it. They would continue to push when I specifically said I needed space. That's when I will turn to avoiding, because they choose not to respect my need. Also, if I am just slow to respond, it doesn't necessarily mean I need space. I could be busy with work or other things or just at a slower pace than my partner. Sometimes if they will take my slower response as a "hint" (which it is not), then get upset and ask why I don't just say I need space. It's because I don't. I'm just not responding on THEIR timetable. |
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Post by madamebovary on Jan 30, 2018 15:24:31 GMT
so i can’t answer for your DA because i find it impossible to get involved with an AP to even get to that conversation. sorry  No worries. I’m just trying to understand his side of things. I’m hoping to at least stay friends with him, but who knows at this point. Either way I would like to figure this out. As I’ve been reading, it seems like a common thing among Avoidants to hope that other people pick up your cues that you need space, versus being very direct. On the flip side of that, you would think us APs, who are so adept at taking the emotional temperature of the room ALL THE TIME, would be better st picking up on your cues that you need space. SO MUCH LEARNING! 😊😉 |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 15:31:04 GMT
so i can’t answer for your DA because i find it impossible to get involved with an AP to even get to that conversation. sorry No worries. I’m just trying to understand his side of things. I’m hoping to at least stay friends with him, but who knows at this point. Either way I would like to figure this out. As I’ve been reading, it seems like a common thing among Avoidants to hope that other people pick up your cues that you need space, versus being very direct. On the flip side of that, you would think us APs, who are so adept at taking the emotional temperature of the room ALL THE TIME, would be better st picking up on your cues that you need space. SO MUCH LEARNING! 😊😉 well and like mary said, i didn’t need space, in fact i sought him out to chat and lift with. we do that in the gym, spot each other with the barbell, etc. i enjoyed his company until he needed reassurance about it so much and then it just was too complicated for a light lifting buddy thing. it wasnt space. it was the need for reassurance. to the point of inconsideration when i was sick and such. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 15:36:34 GMT
also, with mynorher relationships i am very comfortable about who i am and i do directly ask for space if i need it.
actually i don’t find myself having to ask because i feel encroached upon, because i am not involved with anxious people generally. But i will say “hey, i’m gonna take some solitude and down time..” and everyone is cool with that and supports that and aren’t even insecure about it at all. i don’t know, it’s a lot more relaxed and not constant tension.
and i also ask for together time . we all do. just very open and relaxed about it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 15:58:49 GMT
No worries. I’m just trying to understand his side of things. I’m hoping to at least stay friends with him, but who knows at this point. Either way I would like to figure this out. As I’ve been reading, it seems like a common thing among Avoidants to hope that other people pick up your cues that you need space, versus being very direct. On the flip side of that, you would think us APs, who are so adept at taking the emotional temperature of the room ALL THE TIME, would be better st picking up on your cues that you need space. SO MUCH LEARNING! 😊😉 well and like mary said, i didn’t need space, in fact i sought him out to chat and lift with. we do that in the gym, spot each other with the barbell, etc. i enjoyed his company until he needed reassurance about it so much and then it just was too complicated for a light lifting buddy thing. it wasnt space. it was the need for reassurance. to the point of inconsideration when i was sick and such. This is such a good point. The need for space and being annoyed by the need for constant reassurance are two different things. |
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Post by madamebovary on Jan 30, 2018 17:13:55 GMT
“it wasnt space. it was the need for reassurance. to the point of inconsideration when i was sick and such.” This is interesting to me, as an AP trying to learn to be more secure and less annoying because it’s a chicken and egg thing. Or like... a chase dynamic where the Avoidant is trying to convey “stop chasing me” and the AP is trying to convey “well then stop running”, except that to the Avoidant, they never were running, they were going about their day. I can see how annoying the need for reassurance is. I’m not sure he understood I started feeling I needed it when he starting physically pulling away a little. The AP personality is hyper-vigilant of shifts in the emotional wind. In ways that (at least MY Avoidant) didn’t notice. For him, I think it was just his way of being. He gets busy and he doesn’t participate as much and that’s it. It was a non-issue to him. That’s probably totally doable for another avoidant or a secure person (which is why my goal is to get to that secure place). For an AP.. our radar goes up and it’s almost like a cat’s whiskers... always twitching with the wind... we’re maybe expecting the change in the air and trying to preemptively react to it. It’s exhasuting for us and I’m sure annoying for other people. And frustrating in its predictability when you have an avoidant and a AP together. I feel for the avoidant that is locked in this dance with an AP. It’s the reason I’m here trying to fix it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 17:26:50 GMT
“it wasnt space. it was the need for reassurance. to the point of inconsideration when i was sick and such.” This is interesting to me, as an AP trying to learn to be more secure and less annoying because it’s a chicken and egg thing. Or like... a chase dynamic where the Avoidant is trying to convey “stop chasing me” and the AP is trying to convey “well then stop running”, except that to the Avoidant, they never were running, they were going about their day. I can see how annoying the need for reassurance is. I’m not sure he understood I started feeling I needed it when he starting physically pulling away a little. The AP personality is hyper-vigilant of shifts in the emotional wind. In ways that (at least MY Avoidant) didn’t notice. For him, I think it was just his way of being. He gets busy and he doesn’t participate as much and that’s it. It was a non-issue to him. That’s probably totally doable for another avoidant or a secure person (which is why my goal is to get to that secure place). For an AP.. our radar goes up and it’s almost like a cat’s whiskers... always twitching with the wind... we’re maybe expecting the change in the air and trying to preemptively react to it. It’s exhasuting for us and I’m sure annoying for other people. And frustrating in its predictability when you have an avoidant and a AP together. I feel for the avoidant that is locked in this dance with an AP. It’s the reason I’m here trying to fix it. honestly i think the best approach is to stay primarily focused on our own internal issues, and that’s why i beat that drum. i brought up my perspective of the AP in this thread because this particular thread was exploring that kind of conversation. But, for the most part, my involvement in this board is not understanding my partner it’s understanding myself and taking care of myself. if analyzing someone else’s behavior worked really good and created a happy existence full of peace and intimacy i think there wouldn’t be any AP’s here because as you said, the tendency is to overanalyze the partner and situations. It sounds like there has been a ton of that going on long before coming here to do it some more. So understanding the partner and putting the onus on the partner is helpful to a limited extent, but again, it becomes a distraction from actually resolving one’s own dysfunction. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 17:48:58 GMT
Tgat, that gym friend sounds overly exhausting and frankly, a little tooooooo self preoccupied given he’s an acquaintance. I guess when these behaviors are also in a romantic relationship, that’s the tricky part - you can’t really just leave like we can the random gym friend. Technically you can, but it’s not that straightforward as we know it. Having to constantly reassure is very annoying indeed. It would be much nicer and comfortable to just BE in the relationship?
Madame, I totally hear what you’re saying about giving the green light then blaming you for being draining. I’ve come to just ignore what he says about these things and basically just deal with him the way he does with me. I do not believe anymore what my DA says about “be yourself” and “you can do whatever you want”. It’s funny because I no longer trust anything he says, which destroys the relationship, and he doesn’t see that.
Even if I’m not seeking reassurance e.g., I’m just complaining about my day or that annoying colleague of mine or some other daily mundane thing, he seems to view it as having to soothe and reassure me. I’m just telling you because you’re my partner. And part of being together for me is to simply listen to each other. So the problem for me is, if I’m having a terrible time (that’s unrelated to him), I only have very little space to vent so I hold it in to make it comfortable for him, but that drains me because the relationship is not safe for me - I get judged as needy and whiny about things that he thinks can just get solved without being emotional about it.
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Post by bedlam71 on Jan 30, 2018 17:54:17 GMT
Friends generally don't have the same interest, attachment, intent that a partner does. It's easier to deal with friends because they don't want from you like a partner would. They can be kept at arm's length without a whole lot of emotional investment required on the avoidants part. The other side of this is it's selfish to be a partner and to only want to be in your partner's life on your terms and when you feel like it. It can also be selfish not being willing to be transparent and vulnerable. When someone is evasive, not making an effort to be with their partner, putting everyone including stranger's first, how could one not need reassurance except another avoidant or Jesus. People need to approach the middle vs. staying in extremes. I didn't need to be around my ex all the time. I did want a normal, communicative relationship that was respectful and considerate of my wants and needs. But seemingly innocuous things would trigger my exes thoughts that I was trying to control her. In reality, she was the one with the major control issues.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 17:55:25 GMT
“it wasnt space. it was the need for reassurance. to the point of inconsideration when i was sick and such.” This is interesting to me, as an AP trying to learn to be more secure and less annoying because it’s a chicken and egg thing. Or like... a chase dynamic where the Avoidant is trying to convey “stop chasing me” and the AP is trying to convey “well then stop running”, except that to the Avoidant, they never were running, they were going about their day. I can see how annoying the need for reassurance is. I’m not sure he understood I started feeling I needed it when he starting physically pulling away a little. The AP personality is hyper-vigilant of shifts in the emotional wind. In ways that (at least MY Avoidant) didn’t notice. For him, I think it was just his way of being. He gets busy and he doesn’t participate as much and that’s it. It was a non-issue to him. That’s probably totally doable for another avoidant or a secure person (which is why my goal is to get to that secure place). For an AP.. our radar goes up and it’s almost like a cat’s whiskers... always twitching with the wind... we’re maybe expecting the change in the air and trying to preemptively react to it. It’s exhasuting for us and I’m sure annoying for other people. And frustrating in its predictability when you have an avoidant and a AP together. I feel for the avoidant that is locked in this dance with an AP. It’s the reason I’m here trying to fix it. honestly i think the best approach is to stay primarily focused on our own internal issues, and that’s why i beat that drum. i brought up my perspective of the AP in this thread because this particular thread was exploring that kind of conversation. But, for the most part, my involvement in this board is not understanding my partner it’s understanding myself and taking care of myself. if analyzing someone else’s behavior worked really good and created a happy existence full of peace and intimacy i think there wouldn’t be any AP’s here because as you said, the tendency is to overanalyze the partner and situations. It sounds like there has been a ton of that going on long before coming here to do it some more. So understanding the partner and putting the onus on the partner is helpful to a limited extent, but again, it becomes a distraction from actually resolving one’s own dysfunction. Completely agree about working on yourself first and foremost! Although, tgat, I always see understanding my DA as important in working on myself, because understanding the triggers and context helps me understand myself better. Clearly I’m not triggered when I’m with other boyfriends or friends, so he embodies my issues, and I want to know what those are. I also want to understand the DA perspectives because that is my blindspot and the yin to my Yang. There are alternative ways of seeing the same event, and I want to know what those are, so that I can also see them. Once you see, it’s hard to unsee. So for me, I’m a cognitive person and I want to explore all ways of seeing so that I am not “blinded” by my own issues. Not sure if I’m making sense. |
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Post by bedlam71 on Jan 30, 2018 17:59:04 GMT
Tgat, that gym friend sounds overly exhausting and frankly, a little tooooooo self preoccupied given he’s an acquaintance. I guess when these behaviors are also in a romantic relationship, that’s the tricky part - you can’t really just leave like we can the random gym friend. Technically you can, but it’s not that straightforward as we know it. Having to constantly reassure is very annoying indeed. It would be much nicer and comfortable to just BE in the relationship? Madame, I totally hear what you’re saying about giving the green light then blaming you for being draining. I’ve come to just ignore what he says about these things and basically just deal with him the way he does with me. I do not believe anymore what my DA says about “be yourself” and “you can do whatever you want”. It’s funny because I no longer trust anything he says, which destroys the relationship, and he doesn’t see that. Even if I’m not seeking reassurance e.g., I’m just complaining about my day or that annoying colleague of mine or some other daily mundane thing, he seems to view it as having to soothe and reassure me. I’m just telling you because you’re my partner. And part of being together for me is to simply listen to each other. So the problem for me is, if I’m having a terrible time (that’s unrelated to him), I only have very little space to vent so I hold it in to make it comfortable for him, but that drains me because the relationship is not safe for me - I get judged as needy and whiny about things that he thinks can just get solved without being emotional about it. I'm with you on that, Anxious. You can't just have a bad day and express it. If you express it, you have to be robotic about it or else you're taking it out on them. It's like ...No! I'm expressing my emotions!!!! That's what people do! And the other person listens without making it about them(which anxious leaning people get accused of doing). |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 18:00:28 GMT
Tgat, that gym friend sounds overly exhausting and frankly, a little tooooooo self preoccupied given he’s an acquaintance. I guess when these behaviors are also in a romantic relationship, that’s the tricky part - you can’t really just leave like we can the random gym friend. Technically you can, but it’s not that straightforward as we know it. Having to constantly reassure is very annoying indeed. It would be much nicer and comfortable to just BE in the relationship? Madame, I totally hear what you’re saying about giving the green light then blaming you for being draining. I’ve come to just ignore what he says about these things and basically just deal with him the way he does with me. I do not believe anymore what my DA says about “be yourself” and “you can do whatever you want”. It’s funny because I no longer trust anything he says, which destroys the relationship, and he doesn’t see that. Even if I’m not seeking reassurance e.g., I’m just complaining about my day or that annoying colleague of mine or some other daily mundane thing, he seems to view it as having to soothe and reassure me. I’m just telling you because you’re my partner. And part of being together for me is to simply listen to each other. So the problem for me is, if I’m having a terrible time (that’s unrelated to him), I only have very little space to vent so I hold it in to make it comfortable for him, but that drains me because the relationship is not safe for me - I get judged as needy and whiny about things that he thinks can just get solved without being emotional about it. I do sympathize, anxious, but i reallythat you and your partner sound outright incompatible. i really struggle with the idea of you being so unhappy in the relationship and, rather than accepting your differences or acknowledging that he just can’t meet your needs, you seem to be wanting him to change. Compromise is necessary and healthy in any relationship, but holding on to a relationship that hurts so bad is a choice. we all have stayed stuck in miserable relationships probably. I understand this very well, as i have just chosen to leave a relationship with someone i cared deeply about because we were incompatible, due to vastly different needs. It hurts, but to stay and hold out for change so that i could be happy just lost its appeal. Once i saw that the circular issues would not be resolved i had to make a sacrifice and get out. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 18:02:51 GMT
Friends generally don't have the same interest, attachment, intent that a partner does. It's easier to deal with friends because they don't want from you like a partner would. They can be kept at arm's length without a whole lot of emotional investment required on the avoidants part. The other side of this is it's selfish to be a partner and to only want to be in your partner's life on your terms and when you feel like it. It can also be selfish not being willing to be transparent and vulnerable. When someone is evasive, not making an effort to be with their partner, putting everyone including stranger's first, how could one not need reassurance except another avoidant or Jesus. People need to approach the middle vs. staying in extremes. I didn't need to be around my ex all the time. I did want a normal, communicative relationship that was respectful and considerate of my wants and needs. But seemingly innocuous things would trigger my exes thoughts that I was trying to control her. In reality, she was the one with the major control issues. me i agree, but i do see the anxious partner has a difficult time letting go of a relationship that doesn’t meet their needs and instead stays and blames the partner for problems? Acceptance seems to be a major sticking point. |
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Post by kristyrose on Jan 30, 2018 18:03:19 GMT
Tgat, that gym friend sounds overly exhausting and frankly, a little tooooooo self preoccupied given he’s an acquaintance. I guess when these behaviors are also in a romantic relationship, that’s the tricky part - you can’t really just leave like we can the random gym friend. Technically you can, but it’s not that straightforward as we know it. Having to constantly reassure is very annoying indeed. It would be much nicer and comfortable to just BE in the relationship? Madame, I totally hear what you’re saying about giving the green light then blaming you for being draining. I’ve come to just ignore what he says about these things and basically just deal with him the way he does with me. I do not believe anymore what my DA says about “be yourself” and “you can do whatever you want”. It’s funny because I no longer trust anything he says, which destroys the relationship, and he doesn’t see that. Even if I’m not seeking reassurance e.g., I’m just complaining about my day or that annoying colleague of mine or some other daily mundane thing, he seems to view it as having to soothe and reassure me. I’m just telling you because you’re my partner. And part of being together for me is to simply listen to each other. So the problem for me is, if I’m having a terrible time (that’s unrelated to him), I only have very little space to vent so I hold it in to make it comfortable for him, but that drains me because the relationship is not safe for me - I get judged as needy and whiny about things that he thinks can just get solved without being emotional about it. Hi Anxious, I agree with your last paragraph. A lot of the time I wasn't seeking reassurance, I simply wanted to tell my ex about a situation at work, or something silly in my day and often times he would never respond until the next day, or give me a curt response about being busy, so I would just back off. But his doing this over and over made me stop all together, then he would start reaching out over and over. It had to be on his terms only- when he felt like it, he would text all day, but for me, I could never do that. There were all of these unspoken rules he had. If I had just known what some of them were, I'd be happy to respect them. I literally felt like the rules changed daily and that I could never please him. Once he ignored me for a week, I texted him once or twice, then gave up and let him be. He came back as if nothing happened and did not address my last text asking if everything was ok. This was after months of texting daily. So, I get what you mean. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 18:04:51 GMT
there is a point at which staying and trying to make it work becomes about control rather than healthy boundaries and accepting a person for who and how they are and opting out.
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